Guild Wars 2

So, here’s something I feel has been always a thorn in the side of balance, and just want to talk about it with you guys: Roles.

I’ve been playing Overwatch and I really have to appreciate that they give every character a unique role to play in a team. Perhaps the role is not fully appreciated in a particular meta, but at the least having defined roles help in buffing or fixing a character or class to fit its particular niche.

I believe GW2’s 9 classes, while they diversify in builds, should be balanced around certain roles they should play in a team, and thus this thread is here for us to discuss what roles we believe a particular profession should fit.

I’ll use Mesmer, as it is my main, as an example:

• Lockdown Role, the role to continuously interupt and place controls/limitations on enemies, particularly countering roles which involve strong skills with large tells.

• Punisher Role, the role which punishes lack of awareness via soft methods [Confusion], particularly countering roles which rely on high DPS [meaning attack spam] or aggressive play [fast-pace].

• Equalizer Role, the role to support your team with abilities which remove the enemy from having advantages [Boons, Stealth, etc.] and undoing allies’ disadvantages [Condi]. In addition, this role can expand to reversing advantage, AKA Condi/Boon Swapping. Counters high-support and high-condition based roles.

Obviously these are not the only playstyles, in fact hybrid styles should exist between them for sure! However, without limiting our view of what a profession should do and should not do, the game cannot be properly balanced ever.

Any thoughts on this step to balance? Any thoughts on what roles certain professions might fill?

[Of course, the main problem is that ANet never listens to these threads anyway, but hey, let’s give it a whirl for the fun of it.]

Roles should not be dependant on the particular profession you play, they should be primarily dependant on your elite spec. I would just say build, but elite specs have turned into these build-defining trait lines. In Overwatch and in MOBAs, they keep adding different characters, who may have overlapping roles. In my opinion elite specs will, in a way, be the GW2 equivalent to adding more characters.

Maybe we should be talking about the roles of the current elite specs instead, and maybe what sort of specs should be added in the future.

Ganathar.4956:

Roles should not be dependant on the particular profession you play, they should be primarily dependant on your elite spec. I would just say build, but elite specs have turned into these build-defining trait lines. In Overwatch and in MOBAs, they keep adding different characters, who may have overlapping roles. In my opinion elite specs will, in a way, be the GW2 equivalent to adding more characters.

Maybe we should be talking about the roles of the current elite specs instead, and maybe what sort of specs should be added in the future.

Still, there are still imbalances with traits and skills outside the elite spec. These base traits and skills, I believe, should be balanced in form with certain roles the profession is decided to be based around.

Necromancer: Boon Corruption.
That’s the only definited role I see in the game and also the only way for the necromancer to be viable, still if they inflict low/average damage (highly depending on how much LF they have) and have no survavibility.

Tempest have a Supporter role printed on his back, but the insane high dps of some classes and the absence of defensive amulets made him misteriously disappear from the game. But I still think that it’s good, in the hands of a skilled player.

Revenant/Herald have the best direct damage of the game, and also one of the best survavibility of the game.

Berserker is the new condibomb class, stealing the throne from the mesmer and the reaper

Thief is the decapper and the one that kill you when you’re offguard, now with some good chance to fight in team with the perma evasion build

Druid is the healer but only few players use it’s healing ability to heal allies; they prefer to dps with insanely strong pets and selfhealing survavibility skills

Engi is always the jack of all trades, able to do both the role of the dps and of the tank, with high damage and survavibility and the ability to ress other players easier and faster than any other

More or less every class have his role, specifically forced by the Elite Specializzation. But there’s 2 exeption that fell off from what they thinked about to make:

The Guardian that is strange to that things.
From the beginning, the guardian was able to inflict high damage with really good survavibility or be the best tank of the game.
Now it’s more or less Both of them at the same time.
With the proper build, a Dragonhunter can be insanely hard to kill and inflict the same damage of a revenant, making him the best class of the game, with high damage and high survavibility.
That’s simply why it’s main ability is to survive and it’s Specializzation focus on the damage. That make him able to obtain both damage and defence from the combination of the elite trait and the old traits.

Reaper actually is the more specific role directed class in all the sPvP area, but only why is totally unable to cover other roles. Can’t be a dps, absolutly can’t be a tank, no defensive support of any kind and have no mobility.
ANet wanted to build a Elite able to fight in the first line, to slay foes after foes with insane direct damage hits using the GS. But the GS is a really bad weapon in sPvP, the direct damage of the reaper isn’t enough to grant him a chance to be a real dps (not in this meta for shure) and still lack of any kind of block/evasion/immunity/selfhealing skill to be able to fight any skilled player and hope to win, or flee.
The necromancer is in the meta why is the only one able to Corrupt the enemy boons, but there’s also the Mallyx revenant, that Remove boons better than the Reaper and instead of corrupt inflict confusion (spam mallyx 3 removing 3 boons with every hit and inflicting 3 confusion, high Movement range of the skill, AoE area, unblockable).

That’s 2 classes are out of what anet wanted to make with them, but they’re still able to cover a role (dps/bunker or offensive support), then they’re still in the meta with a role over they’re back.

There’s specific roles but there’s no balance between them.

Then you have overlapping roles like Rev & Thief. Thief has more decap abilities and arguably better +1 bursts but can’t stay on point indefinitely like a Rev.

Revs +1 bursts are arguably on point just like the Thief but are not as mobile. Yet they can stay on point longer with limited risks involved vs a Thief who could get countered if he’s not careful.

I’ve seen an Ele pick up downs faster than Engi on point but Engi definitely has better utilities in a team fight. At best, Ele has better focus damage burst but Engi is a better bruiser.

It’s calculated risks. Ele & Thief is simply more difficult to make work compared to having a Rev, Ranger, and Engi.

Dondagora.9645:

So, here’s something I feel has been always a thorn in the side of balance, and just want to talk about it with you guys: Roles.

I’ve been playing Overwatch and I really have to appreciate that they give every character a unique role to play in a team. Perhaps the role is not fully appreciated in a particular meta, but at the least having defined roles help in buffing or fixing a character or class to fit its particular niche.

I believe GW2’s 9 classes, while they diversify in builds, should be balanced around certain roles they should play in a team, and thus this thread is here for us to discuss what roles we believe a particular profession should fit.

I’ll use Mesmer, as it is my main, as an example:

• Lockdown Role, the role to continuously interupt and place controls/limitations on enemies, particularly countering roles which involve strong skills with large tells.

• Punisher Role, the role which punishes lack of awareness via soft methods [Confusion], particularly countering roles which rely on high DPS [meaning attack spam] or aggressive play [fast-pace].

• Equalizer Role, the role to support your team with abilities which remove the enemy from having advantages [Boons, Stealth, etc.] and undoing allies’ disadvantages [Condi]. In addition, this role can expand to reversing advantage, AKA Condi/Boon Swapping. Counters high-support and high-condition based roles.

Obviously these are not the only playstyles, in fact hybrid styles should exist between them for sure! However, without limiting our view of what a profession should do and should not do, the game cannot be properly balanced ever.

Any thoughts on this step to balance? Any thoughts on what roles certain professions might fill?

[Of course, the main problem is that ANet never listens to these threads anyway, but hey, let’s give it a whirl for the fun of it.]

Before HOT and the D/D cancer Anet had good placement. Bunker guardian was the best bunker in the game followed by staff ele.

Yet these classes had other options such as the D/D and fresh air ele. Guardian had burn burst a DPS build all of which could be played at any level.

In matches before HOT you would look at a team mates weapon set. When you saw a warrior with a bow, you assumed shoutbow, you saw a greatsword or rifle. You thought dps/stances. You might of even asked but now no need.

Everyone basically runs the same utility skills/ healing/ elite skill on a class because balance in the game has been taken to the shed and shot. You cant talk about defining roles when your lying there in a pool of blood hoping the red witch will find you and bring you back.

Blame MetaBattle

R O C.6574:

Blame MetaBattle

It goes bothways. People have their own free will and most choose to lazily use metabattle and go the easy route. Metabattle caters to those lazy tards and IMO is bad for the game. But on the other hand, meta builds exist because of Anet’s incompetence in balancing professions.

But in my own honest opinion, metabattle should go. Let people start trying and discover their own builds. Some people even harrass others for not using metabuilds.

R O C.6574:

Blame MetaBattle

guild wars 2 and metabattle isn’t the first ones to be responsible for people copying other people’s builds/strategy/system/deck nor will it be the last.

that has existed since the dawn of competition and will continue to exist as long as there is competition.

Kyon.9735:

R O C.6574:

Blame MetaBattle

It goes bothways. People have their own free will and most choose to lazily use metabattle and go the easy route. Metabattle caters to those lazy tards and IMO is bad for the game. But on the other hand, meta builds exist because of Anet’s incompetence in balancing professions.

But in my own honest opinion, metabattle should go. Let people start trying and discover their own builds. Some people even harrass others for not using metabuilds.

I’m sorry but I rather have a Metabattle type site for new players to have a start, than have them be on my team with some glass PvE rez-bot build. Sure bad players will be bad but at least they’ll be a bit more efficient on a good build.

The differences between every Esports player’s build in Leagues is off by maybe 1 trait, 1 utility or 1 rune. There are no secrets here… build diversity (finding that gem) is pretty much non-existent now.

Saiyan.1704:

Kyon.9735:

R O C.6574:

Blame MetaBattle

It goes bothways. People have their own free will and most choose to lazily use metabattle and go the easy route. Metabattle caters to those lazy tards and IMO is bad for the game. But on the other hand, meta builds exist because of Anet’s incompetence in balancing professions.

But in my own honest opinion, metabattle should go. Let people start trying and discover their own builds. Some people even harrass others for not using metabuilds.

I’m sorry but I rather have a Metabattle type site for new players to have a start, than have them be on my team with some glass PvE rez-bot build. Sure bad players will be bad but at least they’ll be a bit more efficient on a good build.

The differences between every Esports player’s build in Leagues is off by maybe 1 trait, 1 utility or 1 rune. There are no secrets here… build diversity (finding that gem) is pretty much non-existent now.

And this kind of logic is why were stuck in meta wars. PvP just rotates between meta builds and meta classes. Noobs stomping others with premade builds generate QQ followed by massive nerfs. which in turn kills more non meta builds. And then there’s the “if you can’t beat them, join them” logic so yay more meta spam and QQ.

Seriously, people want change but won’t dare experience a bit of inconvenience in the process? Pure kappa.

Regarding your concern on new players, this is why Anet should make better matchmaking and it’s pretty much the same thing now. GW2 shouldn’t be like a FPS game where you just grab a build from a website and pewpew everyone. If you want to excel, learn it. No more spoonfeeding.