Guild Wars 2

Perma dodge condi thief. It’s not OP or anything, it’s that I literally have to play against evade frames, not the player, but the evade frames. Oh, it also promotes lazy unskillful gameplay. PS, anyone who plays this is trash at thief.

GhandiBot.6257:

it’s that I literally have to play against evade frames, not the player, but the evade frames. Oh, it also promotes lazy unskillful gameplay.

I don’t like taking things out of context, so apologies in advance.

But this could be applied to any build after HoT.

HoT has given greater power creep than this.

You will never see this build in top-tier play. There is a reason for that. Find that reason, and put it to good use.

Also, thief is at its lowest right now and you want to need it because it annoys you? What was the 1s CD on stealth attacks not crippling enough for you? Evade is the only truly defensive ability a thief has and you want to take that away. Sure we have stealth but only one weapon set can effectively use it and it does not stop damage it just makes you invisible. Channelled skills still hit us in stealth.

Wait…spamming evades while apply huge condi damage isn’t OP? That’s wildly OP! Though it’s not the most OP build right now. D/P is still a better build. The reason you don’t condi in high end pvp is because it dies in teamfights too easily, even with all the evading, and in smaller fights, players know how to counter it.

But yes, it is an insanely cheap build. Imo, it’s actually the cheapest and most faceroll build in the game, but it’s definitely not the most OP because it CAN be countered by good timing. Though that’s literally the only counter, aside from maybe walls that stop evading players.

Zintrothen.1056:

Wait…spamming evades while apply huge condi damage isn’t OP? That’s wildly OP! Though it’s not the most OP build right now. D/P is still a better build. The reason you don’t condi in high end pvp is because it dies in teamfights too easily, even with all the evading, and in smaller fights, players know how to counter it.

But yes, it is an insanely cheap build. Imo, it’s actually the cheapest and most faceroll build in the game, but it’s definitely not the most OP because it CAN be countered by good timing. Though that’s literally the only counter, aside from maybe walls that stop evading players.

You for got any immob also kills it instantly, as well as all aoe still causes damage since the evade frames aren’t up 100% of the time and ao on.

just time your skills right theres a extremely small gap in each attack you need to land hits in between or if your a boss land a stun and kill them instantly

Razor.9872:

You will never see this build in top-tier play. There is a reason for that. Find that reason, and put it to good use.

yeah top tier gamers know the exact casting time of their atacks etc etc
but this permaevade build not only plays against the player , plays againts tech limitations of mid gamers that dont have a top tier computer and a top tier net conection etc etc.
if you get an average player that dont know by incstint their casting times and have a slower reaction time, adds a medium computer and a medium net conection landing and attack in the frames betwen evades is a lottery, in resume playing againts “perma evade” is not only a “git gud” matter

Agreed. It is a pain to fight a perma evade build, especailly in wvw.
A class which has great mobility, cc, a lot of stealth, block, shouldnt be able to have an endurance bar with 3 dodges and skills which have evades included.
Have you ever had duells with a scrapper vs a thief? It is a pure pain, you are not able to land any decent damage. And if the thief plays really good, he is literally immortal in 1v1

thief op plz nerf

as a scrapper I stand in the middle of my mortar fields, my wall o fire and my thunderclap. Then I put on electro whirl and shock shield, an acid bomb, with a few doge rolls. Problem solved

Incidentally spam them with the FT auto when they are close to landing… you’ll hit the frame.

Now you want real fun take bomb kit

As emKelly says, thief is at it’s all time low. With people spamming reveals, AOE, hard cc, thief is way to underpowered right now. Perma evade isn’t the problem, it’s quite easy to play against. But what is the problem is that people don’t know how to play against it. Don’t take this out of context, I’m not bragging about how good of a player I am (I’m actually mediocre), I’m saying is all you have to do is log into your thief, copy the build from Metabattle or whatever, and test the weaknesses of it. Maybe even test it out in unranked, and see how people counter you. I’m not going to list the weaknesses of perma evade thief, but if you want to nerf thief even more than it already is, then you’ve obviously never played thief before.

megilandil.7506:

Razor.9872:

You will never see this build in top-tier play. There is a reason for that. Find that reason, and put it to good use.

yeah top tier gamers know the exact casting time of their atacks etc etc
but this permaevade build not only plays against the player , plays againts tech limitations of mid gamers that dont have a top tier computer and a top tier net conection etc etc.
if you get an average player that dont know by incstint their casting times and have a slower reaction time, adds a medium computer and a medium net conection landing and attack in the frames betwen evades is a lottery, in resume playing againts “perma evade” is not only a “git gud” matter

Are you suggesting being a mid tier player or having high ping, latency or a lower tier rig is something a thief player not restricted by? I assure you that under those conditions it even more difficult for a thief as they have to time their own evades perfectly. This unlike throwing a 3 second block up or having a passive kick in.

Being a mid tier player or having lag and latency issues is NOT limited to every class but thief. When there lag in the game I pull my thief out and put in a warrior or scrapper or mesmer because those builds are more forgiving.

By the way there is no such thing as “perma evade” . There are vulnerable frames in every evade and the thief still restricted by initiative and or endurance. That evade animation can in instances make it easier to hit the thief as he locked in the same.

Just as example skill 2 pistol on theif is a slow projectile. If facing a player with swiftness up that projectile can be sidestepped or avoided without dodging at all. On the other hand If I see a DB thief and time my shot right, it all but certain to hit him .

The same applies to wells traps or other such AOE effects. If you see a thief spamming evades such as those death blossoms, you know exactly where he will land. Plan accordingly.

As to whether this perma evade “promotes” unskilled play another non arguement. All professions have the same types of builds . Passives flying up every time one gets in trouble is hardly “skilled play”. If a skilled player can beat said build every time than thet palyer using “unskilled play” will either die all the time to the same or will have to get better.

The only time a build can be called OP is if better then average or more skilled players have no way of dealing with it. If a skilled player can beat it than how is that not promoting skilled play?

Also remove perma evade staff/d/p thief. Between constant evades vault spam and stealth it is toxic and easy to play. It also can turn into headshot spam thanks to the way DD trait line has been overloaded.

In anycase, the reason they havent nerfed any of thief perma evade builds is because DH is too strong Perma evade thief on power or condition is the only thing that stands a chance vs DH.

Here are the weeknesses of Gingerbread Man

Can’t Chace
AOE’s
Traps
Stuns
Well timed Bursts both condi and power
We cannot run away. Once in a fight we cannot fall back, especially if you get a condi burst on us.

Condi Classes

• Get a Condi burst on us, then stop attacking.
• Kite us and Watch our bar and see if we clear the condi.
• Only start attacking again if we clear them.

Power Classes

• Play defensive until we use Death Blossom
• Burst us as our Death Blossom comes to an end

I posted this very detailed information to prove to you you CAN win against us easilly and the build is not cheap. It’s annoying to play against, yes. But once you know how to beat it it’s a joke. The only reason we play it is because of lack of options. you can thank yourself for that because you all wanted to nerf thief into the ground.

babazhook.6805:

megilandil.7506:

Razor.9872:

You will never see this build in top-tier play. There is a reason for that. Find that reason, and put it to good use.

yeah top tier gamers know the exact casting time of their atacks etc etc
but this permaevade build not only plays against the player , plays againts tech limitations of mid gamers that dont have a top tier computer and a top tier net conection etc etc.
if you get an average player that dont know by incstint their casting times and have a slower reaction time, adds a medium computer and a medium net conection landing and attack in the frames betwen evades is a lottery, in resume playing againts “perma evade” is not only a “git gud” matter

Are you suggesting being a mid tier player or having high ping, latency or a lower tier rig is something a thief player not restricted by? I assure you that under those conditions it even more difficult for a thief as they have to time their own evades perfectly. This unlike throwing a 3 second block up or having a passive kick in.

Being a mid tier player or having lag and latency issues is NOT limited to every class but thief. When there lag in the game I pull my thief out and put in a warrior or scrapper or mesmer because those builds are more forgiving.

By the way there is no such thing as “perma evade” . There are vulnerable frames in every evade and the thief still restricted by initiative and or endurance. That evade animation can in instances make it easier to hit the thief as he locked in the same.

Just as example skill 2 pistol on theif is a slow projectile. If facing a player with swiftness up that projectile can be sidestepped or avoided without dodging at all. On the other hand If I see a DB thief and time my shot right, it all but certain to hit him .

The same applies to wells traps or other such AOE effects. If you see a thief spamming evades such as those death blossoms, you know exactly where he will land. Plan accordingly.

As to whether this perma evade “promotes” unskilled play another non arguement. All professions have the same types of builds . Passives flying up every time one gets in trouble is hardly “skilled play”. If a skilled player can beat said build every time than thet palyer using “unskilled play” will either die all the time to the same or will have to get better.

The only time a build can be called OP is if better then average or more skilled players have no way of dealing with it. If a skilled player can beat it than how is that not promoting skilled play?

im not sugesting it im saying it,“permaevade” xploits this.

Thief players can also had this isues but they had a build that xploits this isues in another players, other builds whith blocks blurs and other stuff arent not so timing dependants to beating them.

And that players walked the pasives aoe way is mainly fault of thieves. being jumped by an enemy apearing of nowhere taked the 50-75% of your health and having a very small time window to respond or they finish you imediatly causes this, a big weapon race that finally thieves losed.

megilandil.7506:

babazhook.6805:

megilandil.7506:

Razor.9872:

You will never see this build in top-tier play. There is a reason for that. Find that reason, and put it to good use.

yeah top tier gamers know the exact casting time of their atacks etc etc
but this permaevade build not only plays against the player , plays againts tech limitations of mid gamers that dont have a top tier computer and a top tier net conection etc etc.
if you get an average player that dont know by incstint their casting times and have a slower reaction time, adds a medium computer and a medium net conection landing and attack in the frames betwen evades is a lottery, in resume playing againts “perma evade” is not only a “git gud” matter

Are you suggesting being a mid tier player or having high ping, latency or a lower tier rig is something a thief player not restricted by? I assure you that under those conditions it even more difficult for a thief as they have to time their own evades perfectly. This unlike throwing a 3 second block up or having a passive kick in.

Being a mid tier player or having lag and latency issues is NOT limited to every class but thief. When there lag in the game I pull my thief out and put in a warrior or scrapper or mesmer because those builds are more forgiving.

By the way there is no such thing as “perma evade” . There are vulnerable frames in every evade and the thief still restricted by initiative and or endurance. That evade animation can in instances make it easier to hit the thief as he locked in the same.

Just as example skill 2 pistol on theif is a slow projectile. If facing a player with swiftness up that projectile can be sidestepped or avoided without dodging at all. On the other hand If I see a DB thief and time my shot right, it all but certain to hit him .

The same applies to wells traps or other such AOE effects. If you see a thief spamming evades such as those death blossoms, you know exactly where he will land. Plan accordingly.

As to whether this perma evade “promotes” unskilled play another non arguement. All professions have the same types of builds . Passives flying up every time one gets in trouble is hardly “skilled play”. If a skilled player can beat said build every time than thet palyer using “unskilled play” will either die all the time to the same or will have to get better.

The only time a build can be called OP is if better then average or more skilled players have no way of dealing with it. If a skilled player can beat it than how is that not promoting skilled play?

im not sugesting it im saying it,“permaevade” xploits this.

Thief players can also had this isues but they had a build that xploits this isues in another players, other builds whith blocks blurs and other stuff arent not so timing dependants to beating them.

And that players walked the pasives aoe way is mainly fault of thieves. being jumped by an enemy apearing of nowhere taked the 50-75% of your health and having a very small time window to respond or they finish you imediatly causes this, a big weapon race that finally thieves losed.

Thieves aren’t the only Passives and Aoe are everywhereim pretty sure Pu Mesmer, is also another cause, but the biggest cause was the balance around lazy gameplay and HoT powercreep, how come thieves are the only class that has to rely on almost pure active defenses, which causes thieves with bad ping have even harder times than almost every other class? And one of Thief main defenses doesn’t mitigate damage to 0 and has hard counters built into classes. And once the next batch of Powercreeped Elite specs come out it won’t have the third Endurance bar…