Guild Wars 2

witcher.3197:

Cynz.9437:

witcher.3197:

Wolfey.3407:

Devils Advocate time,
If that rune were to be removed on the grounds that it’s broken or OP…
Should other runes be removed for similar arguments?
If so, where do you draw the line? Where do you blame the class or the synergy of the class with the rune?

It’s very easy to remove something, it’s very hard to prevent a snowball effect.

Vampirism is on a completely different level – other runes usually give a couple of boons, boon duration, minor effects (like radiation field), or passive effects (+5% dmg, -20% condi duration). Some of these are powerful, but not gamebreaking.

Then you have a rune which essentially passively saves you from a coordinated burst, or carries you if you seriously misplay.

Some professions have similar GM traits, like Defy Pain for warrior – but those professions were designed with that in mind (not a good design, but it was taken to consideration), and even those GM traits aren’t this powerful. Giving immunity away so freely is horrible, power specs barely need to make any sacrifices for it.

How do you compare +20% might duration or +5% damage to multiple seconds of godmode which often saves you from lethal damage and allows you to overcommit to stomps or resses because the channeling won’t even get interrupted?

When there is a single rune which is capable of carrying a player just by being equipeed, there are problems.

nightmare runes say hi

Are you implying that 1 second of single target fear that can be triggered by pets and clones or negated by stability or condi immunity is OP or something?

it basically almost always negates first burst from thieves since they don’t have stab or condi immunity on engage

passive procs are overall bad for the game anyway…all of them, vamp are just worse cause they can carry all those already broken dd eles (Along with pretty much all dps specs…but unlike eles thieves and mesmers are not bunkers at least and they eventually gonna die and can’t just refull and come back in 3 secs like dd) but other passives are not dat better too

the more passive crap the less personal skill involved

It should give a movement speed bonus instead of invuln

Why is:

Condi bomb before 25%

Count to 3

Interrupt/Daze/Stun after 3

so hard that the rune must be nerfed as well?

Bugs and other things aside…

Can’t say I am much of a fan of these types or runes and sigils. Those which will give many classes features or abilities they aren’t able to obtain through traits or skills (not that we should have this many passive traits of the sort either). Balancing the game is already hard enough without them.

As people said, early Lyssa was just as bad. There is a reason why most classes can’t open a fight with a full set of boons or have that amount of instant condition cleanse. It leads to a certain amount of imbalance.
Some classes should die to a single coordinated burst while they run full glass builds.
Again, more imbalance.

The same thing applies to sigils which allow you to run instant bleeds on swap or poison (many classes can’t even use poison otherwise) in sustain builds.
Air and Fire sigils are yet another problem. They allow you to use weak but quick and constantly critting skills to deal way more damage than intended.

The list continues…

Vampire runes are just the latest contender on the list of runes/sigils so powerful that many builds actually revolve around them instead of being a small addition to said builds.

Jelzouki.4128:

It should give a movement speed bonus instead of invuln

It already gives +66% movement speed along with the invuln.

Seifer Thalaen.7869:

witcher.3197:

Cynz.9437:

witcher.3197:

Wolfey.3407:

Devils Advocate time,
If that rune were to be removed on the grounds that it’s broken or OP…
Should other runes be removed for similar arguments?
If so, where do you draw the line? Where do you blame the class or the synergy of the class with the rune?

It’s very easy to remove something, it’s very hard to prevent a snowball effect.

Vampirism is on a completely different level – other runes usually give a couple of boons, boon duration, minor effects (like radiation field), or passive effects (+5% dmg, -20% condi duration). Some of these are powerful, but not gamebreaking.

Then you have a rune which essentially passively saves you from a coordinated burst, or carries you if you seriously misplay.

Some professions have similar GM traits, like Defy Pain for warrior – but those professions were designed with that in mind (not a good design, but it was taken to consideration), and even those GM traits aren’t this powerful. Giving immunity away so freely is horrible, power specs barely need to make any sacrifices for it.

How do you compare +20% might duration or +5% damage to multiple seconds of godmode which often saves you from lethal damage and allows you to overcommit to stomps or resses because the channeling won’t even get interrupted?

When there is a single rune which is capable of carrying a player just by being equipeed, there are problems.

nightmare runes say hi

Are you implying that 1 second of single target fear that can be triggered by pets and clones or negated by stability or condi immunity is OP or something?

it basically almost always negates first burst from thieves since they don’t have stab or condi immunity on engage

passive procs are overall bad for the game anyway…all of them, vamp are just worse cause they can carry all those already broken dd eles (Along with pretty much all dps specs…but unlike eles thieves and mesmers are not bunkers at least and they eventually gonna die and can’t just refull and come back in 3 secs like dd) but other passives are not dat better too

the more passive crap the less personal skill involved

I agree that impactful passive procs are bad for the game, but Vampirism and Nightmare aren’t on the same level. If you get Moa’d and bursted by a thief/mesmer combo a nightmare proc won’t save your life, but a vampirism will. A rune shouldn’t negate a 180 sec CD elite skill + burst from 2 Marauder players.

I know that I suck at thief because often i get too greedy so i never really touched that profession, but since Vamp runes are a thing I think I’m a fairly decent thief and only because of how many times that proc saved me. When a rune can carry players there is a problem – remember Lyssa?

For reason unblanced/strong runes isn’t included in pvp. Vamp(or svarnir) is strong which is inbalanced.

Game would be more balanced in general if we just removed the rune factor from PvP altogether.

To often are players complaining about passives anyways, maybe we should just have 5 stat, 6th utility that is “not a triggered proc” and ban all others.

I don’t really advocate this, and it is a bit lazy but it would solve multiple issues.

Daishi.6027:

Game would be more balanced in general if we just removed the rune factor from PvP altogether.

To often are players complaining about passives anyways, maybe we should just have 5 stat, 6th utility that is “not a triggered proc” and ban all others.

I don’t really advocate this, and it is a bit lazy but it would solve multiple issues.

You are right it is lazy and a terrible solution. PvP is already highly restrictive when you only get to choose runes, sigils and amulet. Removing runes will make it even more brain dead.

I feel like the main issue with vamp runes is that it is a FREE STUNBREAKER. This screws up so many set ups for kills.

These runes are necessary for the health of the game.

For years people have been kittening about ‘being burst from full health to dead out of stealth’ or ‘getting chain cc’d to death and there’s no way to stop it’. Vampirism and Svanir runes are the only counter to those strategies.

All the kittening in this thread amounts to “I couldn’t 100 to 0 them out of stealth.” Good. The game is better this way.

Arkimedes.8730:

These runes are necessary for the health of the game.

For years people have been kittening about ‘being burst from full health to dead out of stealth’ or ‘getting chain cc’d to death and there’s no way to stop it’. Vampirism and Svanir runes are the only counter to those strategies.

All the kittening in this thread amounts to “I couldn’t 100 to 0 them out of stealth.” Good. The game is better this way.

I, personally, dont like that the best runes for avoiding being 100-0’d come with power bonuses and leeching. I think Svanir are more balanced, although the chill bonuses are nearly useless.

meow one twenty.4376:

Arkimedes.8730:

These runes are necessary for the health of the game.

For years people have been kittening about ‘being burst from full health to dead out of stealth’ or ‘getting chain cc’d to death and there’s no way to stop it’. Vampirism and Svanir runes are the only counter to those strategies.

All the kittening in this thread amounts to “I couldn’t 100 to 0 them out of stealth.” Good. The game is better this way.

I, personally, dont like that the best runes for avoiding being 100-0’d come with power bonuses and leeching. I think Svanir are more balanced, although the chill bonuses are nearly useless.

So it is ok that 2-3 classes can 100-0 character with no effort (and maintaining great survival) and rest should suck up and have no way to defend themself against it unless they sacrifice everything?

Cynz.9437:

meow one twenty.4376:

Arkimedes.8730:

These runes are necessary for the health of the game.

For years people have been kittening about ‘being burst from full health to dead out of stealth’ or ‘getting chain cc’d to death and there’s no way to stop it’. Vampirism and Svanir runes are the only counter to those strategies.

All the kittening in this thread amounts to “I couldn’t 100 to 0 them out of stealth.” Good. The game is better this way.

I, personally, dont like that the best runes for avoiding being 100-0’d come with power bonuses and leeching. I think Svanir are more balanced, although the chill bonuses are nearly useless.

So it is ok that 2-3 classes can 100-0 character with no effort (and maintaining great survival) and rest should suck up and have no way to defend themself against it unless they sacrifice everything?

What I am saying is that I don’t think that runes used almost purely for their defensive characteristics shouldn’t come with +Power… Wait, do you consider the +Power from the runes to be, “everything?” If that’s the case then I guess I do support sacrificing everything. Let’s be real, the “rest” you are talking about is purely Thieves, which brings to my other thoughts.

Currently the runes are just a band-aid for Thieves. Fix the class so it doesn’t absolutely need a particular rune to survive, and change the stat bonuses on Vamp runes. Mesmers get just as much if not more out of Vamp runes than Thieves when you consider Portal play. I don’t like that they can get an absolutely free pass with the two combined.

You may disagree but personally i think mesmers (and particulary rampage dmg) are main reason why classes are forced into this rune set right now. Vamp existed before patch but it wasn’t mandatory.

Cynz.9437:

You may disagree but personally i think mesmers (and particulary rampage dmg) are main reason why classes are forced into this rune set right now. Vamp existed before patch but it wasn’t mandatory.

I totally agree. Chronomancer certainly doesn’t help the issue.

my necro uses it :P mist form ftw!!! :P