The Battle Bakery [vPie]
(edited by Errant Venture.9371)
Deplete adrenaline when war Bursts miss
I’m with you on the cooldown, but depleting adrenaline would be a buff because of Cleansing Ire. It’s not like adrenaline is hard to come by, anyway.
Unfortunately it isn’t that simple. If you deplete the Adrenaline, then they proc their Cleansing Ire (which technically would be a buff for good players).
The CD on burst skills needs to be longer for ALL of them, and balanced around a 20-30s CD or so. Skull Crack is devastating (as it should be since it is the profession mechanic), but a 3+ second stun every less than 8 seconds is just bad design. That doesn’t even consider that they have other stuns on the bar too.
All of the Burst skills should be tuned to be as valuable as Skull Crack, but have a longer CD. That and fix the inordinate amount of regen that warriors get and that profession will be in what I consider a better state. There is plenty of work to do on all the other classes too, but Warrior is offender #1 at present.
Unfortunately it isn’t that simple. If you deplete the Adrenaline, then they proc their Cleansing Ire (which technically would be a buff for good players).
I’m with you on the cooldown, but depleting adrenaline would be a buff because of Cleansing Ire. It’s not like adrenaline is hard to come by, anyway.
Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.
The Battle Bakery [vPie]
Who’s idea was it that a 3 condi cleanse potentially every 10 seconds on a T2 trait was a good idea? Lmao
I agree. When I started using war I was dumbfounded at how unpunishing (for the war) bursts are. I fully expected to have adrenaline depleted even on a miss, but lo and behold there is almost literally no penalty for spamming bursts, given the cooldown of burst skills are plain laughable. Depleting the whole bar might be a bit much, but at least take away half on a miss.
And for cleansing ire, yeah, just require the burst skill to hit to get cleanse.
Get stoned whenever you want:
Endless Petrification Tonic
Endless Petrification Tonic
Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.
I’d be fine with that.
warrior burst skills f1 is working fine.
no need to fix what is not broken.
Unfortunately it isn’t that simple. If you deplete the Adrenaline, then they proc their Cleansing Ire (which technically would be a buff for good players).
I’m with you on the cooldown, but depleting adrenaline would be a buff because of Cleansing Ire. It’s not like adrenaline is hard to come by, anyway.
Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.
Which is funny because back in january when asked about warriors terrible condi removal the devs stated that (paraphrased) the warriors high armor/damage/and health pool is kind of why they are slightly lacking on condi clear. Now with cleansing IRE they can self clear condis better than several guard builds. Which IMO is a little ridic considering that guard has low health and low damage.
Unfortunately it isn’t that simple. If you deplete the Adrenaline, then they proc their Cleansing Ire (which technically would be a buff for good players).
I’m with you on the cooldown, but depleting adrenaline would be a buff because of Cleansing Ire. It’s not like adrenaline is hard to come by, anyway.
Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.
Which is funny because back in january when asked about warriors terrible condi removal the devs stated that (paraphrased) the warriors high armor/damage/and health pool is kind of why they are slightly lacking on condi clear. Now with cleansing IRE they can self clear condis better than several guard builds. Which IMO is a little ridic considering that guard has low health and low damage.
Massive condi clean is an issue I don’t really want to get into in this thread, but it definitely is something that needs to be addressed now that the real culprits of the condi meta (dhuumfire +spirit rangers) have been shaved enough to make power builds viable again.
The Battle Bakery [vPie]
Unfortunately it isn’t that simple. If you deplete the Adrenaline, then they proc their Cleansing Ire (which technically would be a buff for good players).
I’m with you on the cooldown, but depleting adrenaline would be a buff because of Cleansing Ire. It’s not like adrenaline is hard to come by, anyway.
Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.
Which is funny because back in january when asked about warriors terrible condi removal the devs stated that (paraphrased) the warriors high armor/damage/and health pool is kind of why they are slightly lacking on condi clear. Now with cleansing IRE they can self clear condis better than several guard builds. Which IMO is a little ridic considering that guard has low health and low damage.
Massive condi clean is an issue I don’t really want to get into in this thread, but it definitely is something that needs to be addressed now that the real culprits of the condi meta (dhuumfire +spirit rangers) have been shaved enough to make power builds viable again.
Except the condis were strong before that. People just were so obsessed with huge numbers they never tried condis out. Now that they see how crazy condi’s can get… They may also see they were never in need of a buff. Just player attention.
Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.
That’ll require more thought out plays and well-timed skill usage. Warriors will now lose their spammy potential hence rendered underpowered by everyone. People will move to the next fotm which requires less skill and more buttonsmashing with some facerolling.
“The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
That’ll require more thought out plays and well-timed skill usage. Warriors will now lose their spammy potential hence rendered underpowered by everyone. People will move to the next fotm which requires less skill and more buttonsmashing with some facerolling.
Then you change the next fotm to be less mindless until you eliminate most/all of the brainless playing options.
Wait.. that would make sense.
That’ll require more thought out plays and well-timed skill usage. Warriors will now lose their spammy potential hence rendered underpowered by everyone. People will move to the next fotm which requires less skill and more buttonsmashing with some facerolling.
Then you change the next fotm to be less mindless until you eliminate most/all of the brainless playing options.
Wait.. that would make sense.
That would have been the better option. But the devs keep on adding and improving brain-dead traits and skills like Dhuumfire and Spirit buffs which rely on auto-attack procs and spam creating new brainless playing options, so no. Mindless fotms won’t be elimitated.
“The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
Except the condis were strong before that. People just were so obsessed with huge numbers they never tried condis out. Now that they see how crazy condi’s can get… They may also see they were never in need of a buff. Just player attention.
I don’t really agree with this, Necromancers couldn’t spec for terror until fairly recently, at release it did abismal damage. Engineers were in a similar boat until some of their abilities were buffed to make condition builds viable, same goes for longbow/sword warriors. It wasn’t that people just didn’t notice that conditions were omg amazing, it’s that they werent amazing until patch x came along to make it that way. Conditionmancers did exist pre-terror but were laughably easy because most of the damage was tied to bleeding so any passive condition cleansing could cut huge chunks out of your damage.
That being said, I would have rather have other options than dhuumfire added, as was the consensus for most of the necro community I can assure you. It felt like a big bandaid; rather than go along fixing lots of Qol issues and tweaking abilities in unique ways, just give us burning to make us feel strong so we can’t complain
ON topic: yes, warriors need to be brought back down to earth, the cooldown on burst skills is a good place to start
[quote=3072507;azuzephyr.7280:]
Unfortunately it isn’t that simple. If you deplete the Adrenaline, then they proc their Cleansing Ire (which technically would be a buff for good players).
I’m with you on the cooldown, but depleting adrenaline would be a buff because of Cleansing Ire. It’s not like adrenaline is hard to come by, anyway.
Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.
This would only result in one thing: No more mace warriors, every warrior would run Hammer/longbow since the bursts in it are reliable. It would remove 100% of the warriors diversity. So even if there needs prehaps too be some changes for the better of balance, such a thing as this is not the way to go at all.
This would only result in one thing: No more mace warriors, every warrior would run Hammer/longbow since the bursts in it are reliable. It would remove 100% of the warriors diversity. So even if there needs prehaps too be some changes for the better of balance, such a thing as this is not the way to go at all.
So you basically say that only huge AoE-Spells are reliable and all those skiller warriors won’t be viable because they would have to actually think about what spell they use and time them right and can’t mindlessly spam them anymore?
Rachat – Elementalist (Abbadon’s Mouth)
Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.
I’d be fine with that.
yeah..never mind Hammer burst can randomly fire you in any direction and then rubber band you. Never mind that flurry over shots it mark, great sword is extremely prone to skill lag, evis is terrain sensitive and moves via flight of the crow..if your not good enough to lock them down on flat ground, without much going on round you on a low population map with an excellent ping..you deserve to miss and lose your adrenaline. Good thinking. We’ll add this one to if thieve’s get blocked in stealth they lose all initiative and if mesmer clones don’t shatter dead on, all their shatters go on recharge.
on flat ground
valid argument, because capture points are often not flat ground… oh wait…
PS: argumenting with bugs is not a valid option, all classes must face them…
Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.
I’d be fine with that.
yeah..never mind Hammer burst can randomly fire you in any direction and then rubber band you. Never mind that flurry over shots it mark, great sword is extremely prone to skill lag, evis is terrain sensitive and moves via flight of the crow..if your not good enough to lock them down on flat ground, without much going on round you on a low population map with an excellent ping..you deserve to miss and lose your adrenaline. Good thinking. We’ll add this one to if thieve’s get blocked in stealth they lose all initiative and if mesmer clones don’t shatter dead on, all their shatters go on recharge.
wow someone is insecure…
It’s the same with Thief Stealth attacks. If they hit Aegis or get dodged they don’t de-stealth the Thief.
Kind of makes skill slightly less important.
It’s the same with Thief Stealth attacks. If they hit Aegis or get dodged they don’t de-stealth the Thief.
Kind of makes skill slightly less important.
Something is not less broken just because there is another thing that is broken too.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
Unfortunately it isn’t that simple. If you deplete the Adrenaline, then they proc their Cleansing Ire (which technically would be a buff for good players).
I’m with you on the cooldown, but depleting adrenaline would be a buff because of Cleansing Ire. It’s not like adrenaline is hard to come by, anyway.
Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.
This would only result in one thing: No more mace warriors, every warrior would run Hammer/longbow since the bursts in it are reliable. It would remove 100% of the warriors diversity. So even if there needs prehaps too be some changes for the better of balance, such a thing as this is not the way to go at all.
I’m sorry but what? You’re telling me that if mace warriors HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THE USAGE OF THEIR BURST SKILLS they’ll become completely nonviable?
Come on, don’t be ridiculous. You ALREADY have to land a hit to cause Cleansing Ire to proc since that’s the only way to deplete adrenaline. The changes I’m talking about are SHAVES not massive nerfs. They promote BETTER play on behalf of warriors, and will REDUCE the number of spam stun bars!
The Battle Bakery [vPie]
Basically warriors are going to get buffed next patch they need more class variety compared to other classes.
[VZ] Sky Avalon – Guardian (Main)
Master of all Professions
sPvP Rank Dragon – 8 Champ Titles – Ruby Division
Master of all Professions
sPvP Rank Dragon – 8 Champ Titles – Ruby Division
It’s the same with Thief Stealth attacks. If they hit Aegis or get dodged they don’t de-stealth the Thief.
Kind of makes skill slightly less important.
Something is not less broken just because there is another thing that is broken too.
Yeah, just b/c the stealth + block mechanism is broken, doesn’t mean that burst skill miss mechanics are acceptable. Let’s fix ALL the broken mechanics!
The Battle Bakery [vPie]
Who’s idea was it that a 3 condi cleanse potentially every 10 seconds on a T2 trait was a good idea? Lmao
It was suggested by a well-known forum warrior this spring. It received huge support from the forum community—after all, warriors didn’t have any traits rewarding the use of adrenaline, just traits that benefited from it being full. Both top-tier and casual players voiced their support.
It’s the same with Thief Stealth attacks. If they hit Aegis or get dodged they don’t de-stealth the Thief.
Kind of makes skill slightly less important.
Something is not less broken just because there is another thing that is broken too.
Yeah, just b/c the stealth + block mechanism is broken, doesn’t mean that burst skill miss mechanics are acceptable. Let’s fix ALL the broken mechanics!
I’m absolutely with you on that. I feel I was misunderstood.
My statement is one of support, not justification.
This is a very good suggestion! On every other class, I have to be careful or setup the use of my most important skills, and if it is dodged I don’t get any benefit. This wouldn’t be a big nerf to good warriors, and would open up new options like using a burst skill (earthshaker) and canceling it mid-use to bait out dodges, which should be viable.
It would also increase counterplay and give classes a means of punishing the warrior for just spamming mindlessly.
Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.
I’d be fine with that.
yeah..never mind Hammer burst can randomly fire you in any direction and then rubber band you. Never mind that flurry over shots it mark, great sword is extremely prone to skill lag, evis is terrain sensitive and moves via flight of the crow..if your not good enough to lock them down on flat ground, without much going on round you on a low population map with an excellent ping..you deserve to miss and lose your adrenaline. Good thinking. We’ll add this one to if thieve’s get blocked in stealth they lose all initiative and if mesmer clones don’t shatter dead on, all their shatters go on recharge.
Your counterexamples make no sense. If you dodge a Mesmer’s shatter, it goes on recharge and their clones are still used. If a Thief uses a skill from stealth that gets blocked, it still takes the initiative; it just leaves them in stealth (which imo should be changed).
If you dodge a Warrior’s burst skill.. They keep all of the bonuses that they get from having full adrenaline (Adrenal Health; Heightened Focus), and the skill goes on a very short cooldown (ten seconds).
You don’t see how this promotes the play requiring no skill that was see from a lot of Warriors today?
#ELEtism
Let’s fix ALL the broken mechanics!
One can only wish though..
“The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
Who’s idea was it that a 3 condi cleanse potentially every 10 seconds on a T2 trait was a good idea? Lmao
It was suggested by a well-known forum warrior this spring. It received huge support from the forum community—after all, warriors didn’t have any traits rewarding the use of adrenaline, just traits that benefited from it being full. Both top-tier and casual players voiced their support.
Whoa whoa whoa…. lets not give him the wrong idea….. The suggestion was posed by the one and only ********** . Widely known for his horrible suggestions to the Warrior profession. I will say in his defense though, this one suggestion was exactly what the Warrior profession needed (but I must also add that it was suggested a couple times before by different people in slightly different ways).
I will also add in, the adrenaline dump on miss, block, missfire, etc has been asked for many times before Cleansing Ire was ever mentioned. The hand holding mechanics in this game is why a lot of the really good pvpers left in the first place. Such as, Thief not losing stealth on blocked, missed, missfire, etc attacks from stealth.
(edited by Vanthian.9267)
The f1 skills now go on full cd if you miss (8 secs if traited).
I still think the cd is too short for such powerful skills, while the f1 for some other warrior skills are too weak.
I would like to see the cd increased to at least 16 secs (traited), condition removal stay the same, adrenaline lost even if you miss etc., and some of the other f1 skills improved.
On demand removal of three conditions every 16 secs still sounds strong to me compared to what other classes have access to, especially considering warrior’s robust health pool, so I can’t see this ruining the class.
I love the way you can build a warrior to be a stun-lock brawler, and I could still play like that with a longer cd on f1 stuns, it would just make it less forgiving if I miss.
Who’s idea was it that a 3 condi cleanse potentially every 10 seconds on a T2 trait was a good idea? Lmao
It was suggested by a well-known forum warrior this spring. It received huge support from the forum community—after all, warriors didn’t have any traits rewarding the use of adrenaline, just traits that benefited from it being full. Both top-tier and casual players voiced their support.
Whoa whoa whoa…. lets not give him the wrong idea….. The suggestion was posed by the one and only ********** . Widely known for his horrible suggestions to the Warrior profession. I will say in his defense though, this one suggestion was exactly what the Warrior profession needed (but I must also add that it was suggested a couple times before by different people in slightly different ways).
I will also add in, the adrenaline dump on miss, block, missfire, etc has been asked for many times before Cleansing Ire was ever mentioned. The hand holding mechanics in this game is why a lot of the really good pvpers left in the first place. Such as, Thief not losing stealth on blocked, missed, missfire, etc attacks from stealth.
Right, sorry. It’s true that it was one of his only good suggestions. It’s unfortunate that there’s never been a penalty for missing a burst skill. I think that a lot of warriors would prefer the cleansing over landing the burst skill, though, so I’m not sure it would help now to just deplete adrenaline on miss and call it good. Cleansing Ire itself should probably be shaved to two conditions.
My point was that it’s popular to say “Anet doesn’t listen and that’s why balance is bad!” Which is probably the furthest possible thing from the truth.
Who’s idea was it that a 3 condi cleanse potentially every 10 seconds on a T2 trait was a good idea? Lmao
It was suggested by a well-known forum warrior this spring. It received huge support from the forum community—after all, warriors didn’t have any traits rewarding the use of adrenaline, just traits that benefited from it being full. Both top-tier and casual players voiced their support.
Whoa whoa whoa…. lets not give him the wrong idea….. The suggestion was posed by the one and only ********** . Widely known for his horrible suggestions to the Warrior profession. I will say in his defense though, this one suggestion was exactly what the Warrior profession needed (but I must also add that it was suggested a couple times before by different people in slightly different ways).
I will also add in, the adrenaline dump on miss, block, missfire, etc has been asked for many times before Cleansing Ire was ever mentioned. The hand holding mechanics in this game is why a lot of the really good pvpers left in the first place. Such as, Thief not losing stealth on blocked, missed, missfire, etc attacks from stealth.
Right, sorry. It’s true that it was one of his only good suggestions. It’s unfortunate that there’s never been a penalty for missing a burst skill. I think that a lot of warriors would prefer the cleansing over landing the burst skill, though, so I’m not sure it would help now to just deplete adrenaline on miss and call it good. Cleansing Ire itself should probably be shaved to two conditions.
My point was that it’s popular to say “Anet doesn’t listen and that’s why balance is bad!” Which is probably the furthest possible thing from the truth.
Cleansing ire should only remove condi’s if they HIT something.
Burst skills should go on full cooldown if they miss/ get blocked/ evaded/…
Adrenalin should fully deplete if they miss / get blocked / evaded/…
Why reward the warrior for screwing up ? They already got lots of hp and toughtness for a reason…
Who’s idea was it that a 3 condi cleanse potentially every 10 seconds on a T2 trait was a good idea? Lmao
It was suggested by a well-known forum warrior this spring. It received huge support from the forum community—after all, warriors didn’t have any traits rewarding the use of adrenaline, just traits that benefited from it being full. Both top-tier and casual players voiced their support.
Whoa whoa whoa…. lets not give him the wrong idea….. The suggestion was posed by the one and only ********** . Widely known for his horrible suggestions to the Warrior profession. I will say in his defense though, this one suggestion was exactly what the Warrior profession needed (but I must also add that it was suggested a couple times before by different people in slightly different ways).
I will also add in, the adrenaline dump on miss, block, missfire, etc has been asked for many times before Cleansing Ire was ever mentioned. The hand holding mechanics in this game is why a lot of the really good pvpers left in the first place. Such as, Thief not losing stealth on blocked, missed, missfire, etc attacks from stealth.
Cleanse on adrenaline skill usage isn’t really bad design IMO. But x3 cleanse potentially every 10 seconds as a TIER 2 TRAIT? That’s just ludicrous. If it was T3 I could understand.
But man, my jaw dropped when I came back to the game and saw that lmao. Basically mandatory for every build.
compare it to ele grandmaster trait that cleanses a condition every time you get regeneration-boon with an internal CD of 5s … once again ridiculous balancing
Rachat – Elementalist (Abbadon’s Mouth)
Well, I think every class which needs to go in melee to deal its damage should have a bit more condi removal.
I play engi. Most of my condis are much more dangerous at point blank (grenades, bombs et similia). If you have to stay near me to deal damage, either you have to outplay me by a lot, or you need more condi clear, or you will barely be able to touch me.
However, do as you wish: I play LB/GS, and LB bursts lands 100% of the time. The ground doesn’t dodge attacks.XD
You will never be able to know what an engineer is going to do next…
because he doesn’t know it himself
because he doesn’t know it himself
(edited by redslion.9675)
Cleansing ire should only remove condi’s if they HIT something.
Burst skills should go on full cooldown if they miss/ get blocked/ evaded/…
Adrenalin should fully deplete if they miss / get blocked / evaded/…Why reward the warrior for screwing up ? They already got lots of hp and toughtness for a reason…
It’s just crazy. Almost like one profession is operating in the game by completely different rulebook than the others. The developers are notorious in not admitting mistakes in their balancing no matter how damaging it is to the game.
They will most likely implement something else totally op so that the warrior complaints will be forgotten instead of fixing them.
All is vain.