Guild Wars 2

If I remember correctly when developers after release talked about class development they mentioned that all the classes have a weakness that was designed, because that will create a more balanced team-work based game. For example:

Warrior was supposed to have problems with condition cleanse.
Necromancer was made without mobility to work more with “attrition” gameplay.
Thief was planned to die quick if someone focuses him.

Too bad I cant remember or find other weaknesses that were supposed to be in classes. So I have two questions:

1. What were the weaknesses for other classes?
2. Do you think that this designed is still here for all the classes or did the devs change their minds?

I’d be interested in a dev answer on this too, mainly because:

- Necromancers still have mobility as a weakness
- Thieves still quickly die to focus

Yet warriors lost their weakness to condition and are now the true jack of all trades (which eles lost meaning they now have no class role anymore).

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

I’d be interested in a dev answer on this too, mainly because:

- Necromancers still have mobility as a weakness
- Thieves still quickly die to focus

Yet warriors lost their weakness to condition and are now the true jack of all trades (which eles lost meaning they now have no class role anymore).

Because they overbuffed necros at some points. Condispam got hold of tournaments.

If condispam gets hold of tournaments, the only class that is weak against conditions will be useless. Especially because warrior go melee, where necros crap their marks. So Anet decided to make warriors more resistant to conditions in order to make them useful.

Then things went out of hand.

redslion.9675:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

I’d be interested in a dev answer on this too, mainly because:

- Necromancers still have mobility as a weakness
- Thieves still quickly die to focus

Yet warriors lost their weakness to condition and are now the true jack of all trades (which eles lost meaning they now have no class role anymore).

Because they overbuffed necros at some points. Condispam got hold of tournaments.

If condispam gets hold of tournaments, the only class that is weak against conditions will be useless. Especially because warrior go melee, where necros crap their marks. So Anet decided to make warriors more resistant to conditions in order to make them useful.

Then things went out of hand.

Sounds like the logical thing to do in that situation would simply be to nerf necros down again instead of upping everyone’s condition removal…

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

I’d be interested in a dev answer on this too, mainly because:

- Necromancers still have mobility as a weakness
-Thieves still quickly die to focus

Yet warriors lost their weakness to condition and are now the true jack of all trades (which eles lost meaning they now have no class role anymore).

That doesn’t apply when they’re using an evade build such as s/d.

Please do not make this a topic about nerf or buff classes – there are plenty of them in forum. So no one else remembers the designed weaknesses? =]

Warrior still weak to conditions, except for some combinations of weapons and traits.
Lissa help a lot, but have long CD.

The class could be useless if all players just put 2 or 3 conditions and and kill. Like Necros and Thieves, the warrior’s weakness must be a specific strategy, and still being.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/news/960-class-balance-philosophies/

The above is a link to the discussion you were referencing.

JETWING.2759:

Warrior still weak to conditions, except for some combinations of weapons and traits.
Lissa help a lot, but have long CD.

The class could be useless if all players just put 2 or 3 conditions and and kill. Like Necros and Thieves, the warrior’s weakness must be a specific strategy, and still being.

So warriors weakness is getting ganked by 5 players at the same time? That’s not a weakness at all. Every class is supposed to pretty much instantly die against 3+ players. Only warriors don’t.

“Warriors still weak to conditions”? WHAT? They can remove 3 conditions every 10 seconds no other class has such amazing condition removal. Oh and they also do damage and/or crowd control while removing those conditions.

Mightymealworm.8409:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/news/960-class-balance-philosophies/

The above is a link to the discussion you were referencing.

Thank you for the information, so according to devs:

Warrior
We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

Guardian
The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

Ranger
The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.

Engineer
The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

Thief
Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

Mesmer
Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

Ele
We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elementalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

Necro
The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.

Is it just me or some classes really do not have as strong designed weakness as others?

Every class should have exceptional skill ceiling, though.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

JETWING.2759:

Warrior still weak to conditions, except for some combinations of weapons and traits.
Lissa help a lot, but have long CD.

The class could be useless if all players just put 2 or 3 conditions and and kill. Like Necros and Thieves, the warrior’s weakness must be a specific strategy, and still being.

So warriors weakness is getting ganked by 5 players at the same time? That’s not a weakness at all. Every class is supposed to pretty much instantly die against 3+ players. Only warriors don’t.

“Warriors still weak to conditions”? WHAT? They can remove 3 conditions every 10 seconds no other class has such amazing condition removal. Oh and they also do damage and/or crowd control while removing those conditions.

Cond Necro kill me in less of 10 sec after fill me of conditions.
Not exist cleanser against that :/

Cleansing Ire requires 20 in defense, a dps sacrifice for a situational cleanser that requires successful hit to work (LB is the exception).
And point per point, Mesmer have better cleanser that warrior. They remove 4 conditions (100% chance) every 10 seconds while heal themselves.

JETWING.2759:

Cleansing Ire requires 20 in defense, a dps sacrifice for a situational cleanser that requires successful hit to work (LB is the exception).

So what? Every other class needs to use a utility slot and/or (mostly and) traits to get not nearly as much cleansing as warriors get by cleansing ire.

And point per point, Mesmer have better cleanser that warrior. They remove 4 conditions (100% chance) every 10 seconds while heal themselves.

Mesmer Mantra heal isn’t viable though so nobody uses it making this point vain.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

JETWING.2759:

Cleansing Ire requires 20 in defense, a dps sacrifice for a situational cleanser that requires successful hit to work (LB is the exception).

So what? Every other class needs to use a utility slot and/or (mostly and) traits to get not nearly as much cleansing as warriors get by cleansing ire.

And point per point, Mesmer have better cleanser that warrior. They remove 4 conditions (100% chance) every 10 seconds while heal themselves.

Mesmer Mantra heal isn’t viable though so nobody uses it making this point vain.

Rangers can also cleanse 4 every 10 seconds, passively. And still have two active removals ready to use.

Engineers will fall in like 10 seconds to condi pressure. Heal turret doesn’t cut it if a necro is on your case.

Great thread. The two intentional weaknesses you mentioned actually turned out to be pretty big problems in the first 9 months or so—warriors just got kited too easily and necros couldn’t escape anything or stand up to focused fire. So buffs were needed, but maybe misplaced a bit overzealous or misplaced.

I’d say:
—Warrior: ranged dps
—Necro: cc
—Thief: tanks
—Engineer: conditions
—Ranger: cc
—Guardian: ranged dps
—Mesmer: conditions
—Ele: spike dps

None being hardcounters, of course, but being just a bit more effective.

Warriors have a weakness? Hah, good one.

Warriors aren’t weak to ranged unless they are some funky build that only uses hammer/mace/shield or something. Sword/GS can close gaps clearing roots/snares, and longbow/rifle deal great ranged damage.