Guild Wars 2

Skip to about halfway through if you don’t want to read my rambling on. It’s in bold, you can’t miss it.

We all know these traits are incredibly strong because of the massive damage they can pile on top of regular attacks on a consistent basis. I’d say condition damage engis are valid at all because of Incendiary Powder (And that’s after a good 4 months of playing one) and anet are right to nerf it because it’s very very strong. However, they’re going at it entirely the wrong way, especially in regards to reducing build diversity. Here’s a quote from Oeggs on the matter:

Quite literally the only thing that this change does is limit the viability of fringe builds that might have had a shot in the meta but nobody plays them. It doesn’t do anything to limit the most powerful build (and in my opinion overpowered build) that engis have in their kitten nal, the bomb/nade build. Simply put it pigeon holes us into going bomb/nade if we wish to do condi damage because the trait spread is unaffected by the change to incendiary.

Exactly right. The bomb/nade/x build I run doesn’t even change one iota, I even already use an adept trait (shrapnel) instead of a master. Here are two example builds I run which get killed by incindiary being moved: HGH Burn spammer – simply can’t take all the required traits with incindiary in masters, need to switch to a kit based build at which point you may as well just go bomb/nade/x – and HGH Rifle/Tool kit (I like hgh okay) – simply doesn’t output enough condi damage to warrant might stacking over straight DD runes and cooldown trait is required too. Those are just two examples, I’m sure people have formulated several other of these “fringe” builds that require icenciary as an adept in some way or another. This is why I believe you should not move incendiary but instead find another way to nerf it.

Now on to my suggestion: Change how Dhuumfire, Incendiary, and probably Sun Spirit operate to be like a venom that recharges every 12 seconds.

Here’s the reasoning: one of the reasons why these traits are so strong is that they can come on literally ANY attack. It’s 100% on crit, and even with very very low crit chance you’re going to hit some kind of crit within 5 seconds of df/ip recharging. It’s practically impossible to evade everything someone does, meaning that essentially, df/ip are just burning that is absolutely going to happen at one point or another. Are you with me? So basically here’s what you can do about it.

• Remove it every 10 seconds.

That’s it. That’s all you can do about df/ip. Are some classes even capable of removing conditions every 10 seconds? I don’t think thieves would be. I know several engis (including myself) who count 10 in their head to try and optimize their ip procs at a time after some guy has used his condi removal, as well as several people who count 10 in their head while fighting necromancers in some kind of attempt to reduce their condi output. But what can you do after that 10th tick? You can’t block or remove it or anything like that, you can just take it. It’s absolute.

What I propose is that dhuumfire and incindiary powder be changed to a buff (similar to a thief venom) that recharges every 11-12 seconds which applies the burn on the next attack, considering that’s pretty much how it works anyway. What that means however, is that like thief venoms and unlike current df/ip, you can counterplay it. With a system like this, you can:

• Evade the shot that procs df/ip
• Block the shot that procs df/ip
• Blind the shot that procs df/ip
• Invuln the shot that procs df/ip

Just like that, bamn, you can do something about df/ip besides remove it, fringe builds get to keep their IP (and I’m sure necros feel the same about DF somewhere, but I don’t play them) and the game’s skill cap is increased by putting the burden of skill on the engi to monitor their ip procs instead of just mindlessly spamming grenades.

The only difference is that you would be giving a little itty bit more burning to low crit builds, but considering it’s now blockable and it would eventually happen anyway even with 0 crit, it’s not as big as it may sound. What do you think?

TL;DR: 11/12 second recharging buffs (similar to venoms) instead of 100% on-crit for DF/IP would be an appropriate nerf without moving it and killing build diversity, as well as increasing the skill cap and removing spam.

Haha good one. Wonder where i could find bad enough enemies that my nades would hit them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Engineer-responses-to-the-Dec-10-changes/first#post3183123

For the most part relates.
Stay away from the idea of ‘new effects to watch out for from traits’ and instead use traits to just put more focus on existing effects/skills/exc.
This game is clusterkittened with things to look out for already, improve gameplay by cutting back, not supporting this trash.

Anet just needs to get off this path of AoEs and Passives. The combat would be a lot more fun if it was more about hitting your target rather than being near your target.

Dhuumfire and incindiary powder should only proc if you target doesn’t have damaging conditions (burn/bleed/poison/torment) already applied. Make it strictly for opening combat or after a big cleanse.

Junkpile.7439:

Haha good one. Wonder where i could find bad enough enemies that my nades would hit them.

It just has to be the first one that hits. Go play a thief and see how venoms operate, it’s only if you make contact with an enemy that a venom is used.

garethh.3518:

Stay away from the idea of ‘new effects to watch out for from traits’ and instead use traits to just put more focus on existing effects/skills/exc.
This game is clusterkittened with things to look out for already, improve gameplay by cutting back, not supporting this trash.

I too would love to cut down on the passive traits, but incendiary powder is already ingrained into the balance of engis – it’s practically required – and this is the most active you can make a passive, needing to monitor when it’s up and actively hit someone with it.

I’ve said it before and ill say it again. IP is not anywhere on the same level is Dhuumfire.

Burn stacks in duration, not intensity. An Engineer has plenty of Burn, even without IP he will still keep Burning up on you. IP does not add more damage-per-second, you will not die faster due to it.

Now Dhuumfire is an entirely different cup of tea. Dhuumfire gives Necro’s Burning they otherwise would not have. Picking this trait piles an extra 800-900damage-per-second on you, you otherwise wouldnt take.

These two traits, who seem so similar, have a drastically different impact based on the profession.

Terrahero.9358:

I’ve said it before and ill say it again. IP is not anywhere on the same level is Dhuumfire.

Burn stacks in duration, not intensity. An Engineer has plenty of Burn, even without IP he will still keep Burning up on you. IP does not add more damage-per-second, you will not die faster due to it.

Now Dhuumfire is an entirely different cup of tea. Dhuumfire gives Necro’s Burning they otherwise would not have. Picking this trait piles an extra 800-900damage-per-second on you, you otherwise wouldnt take.

These two traits, who seem so similar, have a drastically different impact based on the profession.

Whether or not the class has an abundance of ways to apply burning, these two traits are the same in the sense that both are good potential damage that is basically hard to avoid because of RNG. There’s no real counter to them other than blowing up a condi cleanse which does not come in abundance, add to that the barrage of cover conditions that go along with the said random burning procs from these two traits.

OPs suggestion would be the correct way to balance these ridiculous passive traits that can’t be avoided. Venoms used to be unavoidable as well, but were balanced using this kind of mechanic.

Burning is simply TOO STRONG too much dps, too short to remove , too easy to reaply.

Condi meta started with burning (HGH engie , dhuum necro , spirit ranger ).

I propose to give burning terrible scaling with Cond.Dmg. so that
-it will be smaller part of power guys dps
-condi+bunker specs wont gain too much from it

Like 300dps min to 400 dps with max Cond.Dmg. And make engies actualy use “flame-thrower” for “burning”

Flumek.9043:

Like 300dps min to 400 dps with max Cond.Dmg. And make engies actualy use “flame-thrower” for “burning”

And that will fix it? Making burning as strong as 2 bleeds.

The only thing this will cause is that condition builds wont use burning at all. And when you use burning you spec for direct damage, because using full power/crit gear will indrease your DPS by far more than 100 (I would say 2000DPS should be the minimum to reach with soldier + the 300 from burning)

fun-fact: A necro gets only ~280DPS from dhuumfire in sPvP off course with full Condidamage and 100% duration which you cant get in sPvP (4*~700dmg/10sec=280DPS) But burning is super mega OP and we need to burn it into ground.

btw. I am surprised, that no ones aid that conditionbuilds only need condition damage to be super powerful, while power builds need 3 stats, …

Don’t get me wrong, I think that those unavoidable traits are good or so, but it is more or less the same as those deal x% more damage traits, those traits are also a damage boost, that can’t be negated.

Terrahero.9358:

Now Dhuumfire is an entirely different cup of tea. Dhuumfire gives Necro’s Burning they otherwise would not have. Picking this trait piles an extra 800-900damage-per-second on you, you otherwise wouldnt take.

Where do you get those numbers?
In sPVP the maximum conditiondamage you can get is about 2600 (full rabid, 6*undead, 25*might and 25*sigil), so a burn will tick for 980 damage. But then you only got 30%-40% conditions duration which means, you get 3seconds of burning from dhuumfire. so you deal <3k damage every >10sec. So the necro gets <300DPS from dhuumfire. BUT you wont run around with 25might and 25 sigil stacks in sPvP so it is even less damage. without all these might and sigil stacks you lose 1100 condition damage and end up with (3*700/10) 210DPS from dhuumfire.
I know 800-900 sounds much more powerful, but it isn’t the truth

All condi specs among all classes requires serious nerfs. Being able do to heavy damage just for stacking 1 damage stat is plain wrong.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Terrahero.9358:

I’ve said it before and ill say it again. IP is not anywhere on the same level is Dhuumfire.

Burn stacks in duration, not intensity. An Engineer has plenty of Burn, even without IP he will still keep Burning up on you. IP does not add more damage-per-second, you will not die faster due to it.

Now Dhuumfire is an entirely different cup of tea. Dhuumfire gives Necro’s Burning they otherwise would not have. Picking this trait piles an extra 800-900damage-per-second on you, you otherwise wouldnt take.

These two traits, who seem so similar, have a drastically different impact based on the profession.

Whether or not the class has an abundance of ways to apply burning, these two traits are the same in the sense that both are good potential damage that is basically hard to avoid because of RNG. There’s no real counter to them other than blowing up a condi cleanse which does not come in abundance, add to that the barrage of cover conditions that go along with the said random burning procs from these two traits.

You are litteraly just comparing traits because they are similar completely ignoring they are on two entirely different professions.

But if thats apparently fine, lets have a go then.

Why does my Power Shoes apply 25% movement speed only when im in combat? Warriors get it all the time.
Why does my Leg Mods only apply -33% criple/chill/immob? Warriors also get Regen and its adept tier.
Why does Backpack Regenerator heal for less then Adrenal Health, Life siphon or Soothing Mist. And these are even minor traits.
Why does a Warrior get piercing and -20% cooldown on the same trait, and 1200range baseline on rifle. But i get piercing baseline, but need 2 seperate traits one for 1200 range and one for -20% cooldown.
Why do rangers get 50% endurance regen as a 5pt minor trait, but the same trait is a Grandmaster for Engineer?
Why is Target the Mained(25pt minor for engineer) +5% dmg to bleeding targets but Attack of Oppertunity (25pt minor for warrior) +10% to bleeding targets?

I could go on and on, because apparently we can compare traits 1 on 1, completely taking the profession behind it out of the equation.

Nah man i’m allready overwhelmed by using my skills actively! QQ