Guild Wars 2

Diamond skin, as I said before, should be the last thing you worry about. Mesmer and dd ele problems are far worse than that.

Tao.1234:

Laraley.7695:

Tao.1234:

Get yourself few pieces of Sinister gear/trinkets.

Diamond Skin is useless.

Should be buffed and HP threshold should be ~80% HP.

I’m seriously confused. This is pvp forum, you cannot use Sinister in pvp, why do people keep giving this useless advice?

Carrion Amulet.

Point was to get yourself power stat anyway.

Even with carrion most condition specs won’t break it especially necro unless the ele is AFK also carrion benefit guard and thief burn guard is getting replaced by bunker guard and condition thief is no more for PvP.

Sagat.3285:

Tao.1234:

Laraley.7695:

Tao.1234:

Get yourself few pieces of Sinister gear/trinkets.

Diamond Skin is useless.

Should be buffed and HP threshold should be ~80% HP.

I’m seriously confused. This is pvp forum, you cannot use Sinister in pvp, why do people keep giving this useless advice?

Carrion Amulet.

Point was to get yourself power stat anyway.

Even with carrion most condition specs won’t break it especially necro unless the ele is AFK also carrion benefit guard and thief burn guard is getting replaced by bunker guard and condition thief is no more for PvP.

But it’s PvP mode anyway.
Average time for being in 1v1 is roughly around 5 seconds – even with 0 Endurance you can either kite or annoy until your backup enters the fray.

Biggest problem of such teams is complete zero communication within the team.

Even if you lose vs such ele, it’s nothing hard to type in Team chat that such ele has such spec or whatever and you need a bit of help with him due to specific ability which disable you.

Is it hard? Nope.
People do it? Nope.
Why they don’t do it? Because it’s easier to flame and blame someone afterwards instead of asking for coop and help.

TyPin.9860:

Doomdesire.9365:

TyPin.9860:

@Doomdesire:
Lol, bitterness detected.

@Tyreal:
That seems a good way to adapt. But it might not be possible for every profession (besides the sigils of course).

I’m not the one kittening or having trouble with a trait that is completely worthless unless you run pure condi

Let me guess, PU condi mesmer?

You guessed wrong. Power LockDown.

Oh right, so the other blatantly faceroll mesmer build.

Doomdesire.9365:

TyPin.9860:

Doomdesire.9365:

TyPin.9860:

@Doomdesire:
Lol, bitterness detected.

@Tyreal:
That seems a good way to adapt. But it might not be possible for every profession (besides the sigils of course).

I’m not the one kittening or having trouble with a trait that is completely worthless unless you run pure condi

Let me guess, PU condi mesmer?

You guessed wrong. Power LockDown.

Oh right, so the other blatantly faceroll mesmer build.

Funny info for you: I did use power lock down before the patch. And I still was able to win most of my 1v1s. Also my over all win rate in PvP matches did actually not change. But this is a weak indication, if we assume the match making in GW2 works as intended.

LockDown is far from being a face roll build. Spamming MoD into Stability. Bursting while opponent has invuln and such things do not only cut ur dmg. Your dazes stuns are also defensive tools. And anyone with good stabi access will roll over you, if you apply “faceroll” tactics.

But this is something you won’t understand it seems.

Anyway, I am now curious what you play?

Ross Biddle.2367:

So ah, Diamond skin aint just a nifty trait to give conditions a hard time. While it might proc the ‘immune’ floater when you’re trying to land a condi on an ele running this trait, it might aswell spam “invulnerable” to any condition build that gives the ele a sideways look. Especially considering things like D/D ele with their high mobility/reset and burst healing. Vs. a condi build, diamon skin is teh passive OP .

• Suggested change: Diamond Skin grants 3s resistance every 3s while health is above the threshold- 90%.

This way a condi user can still stack up his condi’s, but can also strip the resistance as counter play to create windows of opportunity to take the Diamond Skin ele down. This would make actual dodging/evading important again for the ele instead of just ignoring all condi builds actions -_-u

We got resistance now. Might as well use it and solve some problems we couldn’t before.

Its funny how you’re protecting Mesmers in every “Mesmer OP”-thread but you’re calling Diamond Skin OP..

You sure know how to be biased.

Also, condi mesmers are so broken they can just faceroll every 1v1.. If you struggle with Diamond Skin, I have bad news for you..

Honestly, the best change I could suggest would be making Diamond Skin grant 2-3 seconds of Resistance when swapping to Earth Attunement and removing the health threshold entirely. That would make it useful against Power builds (got hit with an immobilize? Flash into Earth instead of wasting a cleanse on it), but also give Condition builds opportunities to actually combat eles with the trait.

2 seconds would probably be sufficient, given the frequency of application and boon duration, plus an ele’s already fantastic cleansing ability.

Diamond skin is fine. Stone heart is better.

Anyway why use diamond skin when you can just use a golem?

People supporting Diamond Skin as if the trait is justifiable.

As if Conditions didn’t have to worry about the Numerous AoE cleanses this game has.

Technically, the reveal on hit from the engineer wrecks a whole bunch of thief builds and utilities :o

stof.9341:

Technically, the reveal on hit from the engineer wrecks a whole bunch of thief builds and utilities :o

No, the thief still has a chance of winning. The fight just becomes much harder. Diamond skin is a literal hard counter meaning some builds will have 0% chance of winning against an ele with this trait.

zapv.8051:

stof.9341:

Technically, the reveal on hit from the engineer wrecks a whole bunch of thief builds and utilities :o

No, the thief still has a chance of winning. The fight just becomes much harder. Diamond skin is a literal hard counter meaning some builds will have 0% chance of winning against an ele with this trait.

Well if you put all your eggs in the same basket what do you expect. You are just countered by an anti-condi build because you’re playing complete condi.

The reason eles choose to run build like that is specially because of builds like yours that just melt squishy classes.

Xillllix.3485:

zapv.8051:

stof.9341:

Technically, the reveal on hit from the engineer wrecks a whole bunch of thief builds and utilities :o

No, the thief still has a chance of winning. The fight just becomes much harder. Diamond skin is a literal hard counter meaning some builds will have 0% chance of winning against an ele with this trait.

Well if you put all your eggs in the same basket what do you expect. You are just countered by an anti-condi build because you’re playing complete condi.

The reason eles choose to run build like that is specially because of builds like yours that just melt squishy classes.

Your not even worth responding to. I am trying to get a change to this trait so that it goes from being a hardcounter to some builds and useless to others into a trait that requires active play to get very good use, while having counterplay. Your trying to get this trait to stay the same, so you don’t have to worry about fighting against an entire classification of builds.

There is no other hardcounter in this game that exists anywhere close to diamond skin ele, vs rabid anything. Along with that, this trait is almost useless against most power builds. It is poorly designed, and changing it to grant resistance on entering earth would provide much more active play, while also providing counterplay in boon removal, and a reason to take this against power builds. You have no argument, good day sir.

Xillllix.3485:

Well if you put all your eggs in the same basket what do you expect.

Power builds put “all their eggs in the same basket” by going Power/Crit. There’s no hard counter to them. Same for Bunker builds.

Xillllix.3485:

You are just countered by an anti-condi build because you’re playing complete condi.

An “anti-condi” build is Diamond Skin. There are no other “anti-condi” builds in the game. I expect to get outplayed by people who have Several condition cleanses on them. All I can say to these type classes is well done, you got me. I should have engaged better. You can’t say the same for Diamond Skin.

You sir, have terrible arguments.

TyPin.9860:

Doomdesire.9365:

TyPin.9860:

Doomdesire.9365:

TyPin.9860:

@Doomdesire:
Lol, bitterness detected.

@Tyreal:
That seems a good way to adapt. But it might not be possible for every profession (besides the sigils of course).

I’m not the one kittening or having trouble with a trait that is completely worthless unless you run pure condi

Let me guess, PU condi mesmer?

You guessed wrong. Power LockDown.

Oh right, so the other blatantly faceroll mesmer build.

Funny info for you: I did use power lock down before the patch. And I still was able to win most of my 1v1s. Also my over all win rate in PvP matches did actually not change. But this is a weak indication, if we assume the match making in GW2 works as intended.

LockDown is far from being a face roll build. Spamming MoD into Stability. Bursting while opponent has invuln and such things do not only cut ur dmg. Your dazes stuns are also defensive tools. And anyone with good stabi access will roll over you, if you apply “faceroll” tactics.

But this is something you won’t understand it seems.

Anyway, I am now curious what you play?

tl;dr

I play OP Class #1 and want to nerf OP Class #2 so I can be the only OP Class

It’s nice to know you care about balance in this game.

Here’s my class distribution across two accounts.

I find it interesting that any proposed idea to fight against DS gets immediately shot down with ‘It won’t work’ or just gets completely ignored. XD

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So ah, Diamond skin aint just a nifty trait to give conditions a hard time. While it might proc the ‘immune’ floater when you’re trying to land a condi on an ele running this trait, it might aswell spam “invulnerable” to any condition build that gives the ele a sideways look. Especially considering things like D/D ele with their high mobility/reset and burst healing. Vs. a condi build, diamon skin is teh passive OP .

• Suggested change: Diamond Skin grants 3s resistance every 3s while health is above the threshold- 90%.

This way a condi user can still stack up his condi’s, but can also strip the resistance as counter play to create windows of opportunity to take the Diamond Skin ele down. This would make actual dodging/evading important again for the ele instead of just ignoring all condi builds actions -_-u

We got resistance now. Might as well use it and solve some problems we couldn’t before.

Its funny how you’re protecting Mesmers in every “Mesmer OP”-thread but you’re calling Diamond Skin OP..

You sure know how to be biased.

Also, condi mesmers are so broken they can just faceroll every 1v1.. If you struggle with Diamond Skin, I have bad news for you..

If you think I’ve been “protecting Mesmer” in those threads then you either didn’t read closely, or more than likely just don’t understand what I’m doing in them. As for calling Diamon Skin OP, I don’t think I ever said that. I have called it badly designed multiple times, however. What I did do was suggest a change to make it better designed, and actually if you consider my proposal what I’ve suggested is a buff. Because a proc of 3 seconds of resistance that starts right before an ele’s health threshold drops below 90% will guarantee condi immunity beyond the health loss, even allowing for the threshold to be regained. As it currently works, the moment you go below 90% health it’s gone and condi’s will hit with full effect.

So as far as bias’ goes, yes, of course I have a bias. Everyone has bias’, you don’t fault people for it. I’m biased toward good game design, for example. You have an apparent bias against condi mesmers “being broken and faceroll” as another example. Some bias’ are bad, some are good, but you have to justify your claims as to why that’s so. Fortunately for me you’re just flat out wrong about what my bias’ are, so until you can make an accurate claim there’s really nothing to discuss

Anyway, try to stay on topic and be constructive, otherwise your posts will just be removed. Getting personal will only lead to infractions. Simple as that.

Doomdesire.9365:

As it should be. Stop running cowardly condi builds and play a real class

I agree with you that people complaining about the “difficulty” of dealing with Diamond Skin are silly. Those arguing that its basic design is flawed in and of itself might have a point though? I just think that the trait is currently balanced whether it’s bad design or not. Before we start re-designing traits that are currently balanced, we should focused on the dozens of traits that aren’t.

That being said, the fact that you used the word cowardly to describe a play style that you dislike shows that your opinion is unwarranted and based on anything but constructive criticism on the competitive state and/or balance of this game.

I can respect those thinking diamond skin is bad design, but I can’t help but think that if you’re actually struggling against the build that it’s a l2p issue. @Terrosquad.4802 complaining about condi Mesmer being broken face roll. Another obvious l2p issue.

MailMail.6534:

Doomdesire.9365:

As it should be. Stop running cowardly condi builds and play a real class

I agree with you that people complaining about the “difficulty” of dealing with Diamond Skin are silly. Those arguing that its basic design is flawed in and of itself might have a point though? I just think that the trait is currently balanced whether it’s bad design or not. Before we start re-designing traits that are currently balanced, we should focused on the dozens of traits that aren’t.

That being said, the fact that you used the word cowardly to describe a play style that you dislike shows that your opinion is unwarranted and based on anything but constructive criticism on the competitive state and/or balance of this game.

I can respect those thinking diamond skin is bad design, but I can’t help but think that if you’re actually struggling against the build that it’s a l2p issue. @Terrosquad.4802 complaining about condi Mesmer being broken face roll. Another obvious l2p issue.

The ones with a L2P issue are the people playing condi mesmer, what makes it worst is that the same people come and complain about a counter..amazing..amazingly sad.

Supreme.3164:

MailMail.6534:

Doomdesire.9365:

As it should be. Stop running cowardly condi builds and play a real class

I agree with you that people complaining about the “difficulty” of dealing with Diamond Skin are silly. Those arguing that its basic design is flawed in and of itself might have a point though? I just think that the trait is currently balanced whether it’s bad design or not. Before we start re-designing traits that are currently balanced, we should focused on the dozens of traits that aren’t.

That being said, the fact that you used the word cowardly to describe a play style that you dislike shows that your opinion is unwarranted and based on anything but constructive criticism on the competitive state and/or balance of this game.

I can respect those thinking diamond skin is bad design, but I can’t help but think that if you’re actually struggling against the build that it’s a l2p issue. @Terrosquad.4802 complaining about condi Mesmer being broken face roll. Another obvious l2p issue.

The ones with a L2P issue are the people playing condi mesmer, what makes it worst is that the same people come and complain about a counter..amazing..amazingly sad.

Mailmail is the only condi mesmer in this thread that I know of, and he’s been absolutly pro diamon skin in some form or another…. What thread are you even reading?

How about if Diamond Skin wasn’t just a 100% immunity to conditions above 90% health and instead was just a 50% reduced condition duration / effectiveness above say 75-80% health?

Who am I kidding, Anet loves their passive easy mode trash. Expect it to stay. Passive hard counters are Anet’s way of “Esports”.

Jesiah.2457:

Who am I kidding, Anet loves their passive easy mode trash. Expect it to stay. Passive hard counters are Anet’s way of “Esports”.

And Diamond Skin was here for a very long time and suddenly just now it appears it’s way too OP and needs to be nerfed/removed?

Don’t make me laugh.

Tao.1234:

Jesiah.2457:

Who am I kidding, Anet loves their passive easy mode trash. Expect it to stay. Passive hard counters are Anet’s way of “Esports”.

And Diamond Skin was here for a very long time and suddenly just now it appears it’s way too OP and needs to be nerfed/removed?

Yeah, nobody said that. Not even close. Hyperbole and rhetoric make for weak arguments.

As a Staff Ele Bunker main, I honestly don’t know what to do about Diamond Skin. Sometimes I feel as if it’s absolutely necessary or I’ll be eaten alive by Conditions even with Water. On the other hand, in a 1v1 or 1v2 against Condition users, it’s stupidly powerful, to the point where I can almost ignore the Condition users.

Someone here suggested 3s of Resistance upon entering and leaving Earth, but that would just be even more broken. With current boon resist bonuses, I could get a surplus of Resistance by just cycling in and out of Earth as it comes up.

I don’t know if Resistance is the way to go on this either for its current mechanic. Yes, it can be stripped, but it also gives me a safety net between pulses to get back above the threshold. If it pulses every 3 seconds and you get me below 90% a second after it pulses, I still have two seconds of Resistance to get it back above the threshold while you still can’t do anything. And even if I get it back up after you’ve loaded me up with conditions, they suddenly stop doing ANYTHING once I reach 90%, instead of dragging me back down to help you break the health line.

I honestly don’t know what it should even do, if anything with Conditions at all. I like to try and build my bunker to “face anything”, but when I look at Diamond Skin VS Stone Heart, I really feel as if I’m just speccing to counter Power or Condition, though it really shouldn’t be either. Maybe change Stone Heart to also have Resistance pulse every 2 seconds while in Earth and make Diamond Skin something completely new? Something with projectile reflection or something?

Doomdesire.9365:

snap

Plays mostly guardian and accuses others of playing face roll builds/classes.

Also your distribution shows me you have barely any Mesmer experience. So how do you know what is required to play LockDown?

Doesn’t matter. The issue is not that I have trouble with diamond skin Eles. I don’t even notice if they use that trait. It has close to 0 consequence for me. That doesn’t mean I won’t call out a badly designed trait.

You on the other hand seem to be very fond of Ele, if I interpret the colors right. Makes me wonder, why you defend Diamond Skin…

This is pathetic. You accuse me of something, that actually seems to be the case for you. Text book example of projection.

People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Case closed xD

Tao.1234:

Jesiah.2457:

Who am I kidding, Anet loves their passive easy mode trash. Expect it to stay. Passive hard counters are Anet’s way of “Esports”.

And Diamond Skin was here for a very long time and suddenly just now it appears it’s way too OP and needs to be nerfed/removed?

Don’t make me laugh.

I have marked the part of your post, that has no relation what so ever to this thread’s topic.

For now, the best bet is to avoid relying fully on conditions for damage. This trait and Berserker Stance are both indicators of that.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So ah, Diamond skin aint just a nifty trait to give conditions a hard time. While it might proc the ‘immune’ floater when you’re trying to land a condi on an ele running this trait, it might aswell spam “invulnerable” to any condition build that gives the ele a sideways look. Especially considering things like D/D ele with their high mobility/reset and burst healing. Vs. a condi build, diamon skin is teh passive OP .

• Suggested change: Diamond Skin grants 3s resistance every 3s while health is above the threshold- 90%.

This way a condi user can still stack up his condi’s, but can also strip the resistance as counter play to create windows of opportunity to take the Diamond Skin ele down. This would make actual dodging/evading important again for the ele instead of just ignoring all condi builds actions -_-u

We got resistance now. Might as well use it and solve some problems we couldn’t before.

Its funny how you’re protecting Mesmers in every “Mesmer OP”-thread but you’re calling Diamond Skin OP..

You sure know how to be biased.

Also, condi mesmers are so broken they can just faceroll every 1v1.. If you struggle with Diamond Skin, I have bad news for you..

If you think I’ve been “protecting Mesmer” in those threads then you either didn’t read closely, or more than likely just don’t understand what I’m doing in them. As for calling Diamon Skin OP, I don’t think I ever said that. I have called it badly designed multiple times, however. What I did do was suggest a change to make it better designed, and actually if you consider my proposal what I’ve suggested is a buff. Because a proc of 3 seconds of resistance that starts right before an ele’s health threshold drops below 90% will guarantee condi immunity beyond the health loss, even allowing for the threshold to be regained. As it currently works, the moment you go below 90% health it’s gone and condi’s will hit with full effect.

So as far as bias’ goes, yes, of course I have a bias. Everyone has bias’, you don’t fault people for it. I’m biased toward good game design, for example. You have an apparent bias against condi mesmers “being broken and faceroll” as another example. Some bias’ are bad, some are good, but you have to justify your claims as to why that’s so. Fortunately for me you’re just flat out wrong about what my bias’ are, so until you can make an accurate claim there’s really nothing to discuss

Anyway, try to stay on topic and be constructive, otherwise your posts will just be removed. Getting personal will only lead to infractions. Simple as that.

Ok lemme get on topic:

Diamon Skin is fine and should not change. It has more than enough counters in Conquest.

Also: “Especially considering things like D/D ele with their high mobility/reset and burst healing. Vs. a condi build, diamon skin is teh passive OP .” This is where you certainly call it OP.. I can read, tyvm.

Avoid condition damage? Then lets delete all condition amuletts as an result of it. I play condi ranger and ist possible to get through the 90% by using my raven. But i also cannot understand why they made a trait, that can negate some sort of dmg completly without any real requirement. I got a trait as ranger that similiar only works above 90% health, but it only reduce dmg by 33%(+ extra 33% while using protection), not 100%! If thats the way balancing should work, than some classes should get traits, that negate 100% of direct damage while above 90%. Would be fair enough. (irony off).

Complaints about Diamond Skin’s current function have been around for a looooong time. It’s just seen a lot more often now that it doesn’t preclude you from maxing Arcana and getting at least Master tier traits in Water Magic.

It’s still a horridly designed trait: either garunteeing a win or being completely useless. Neither are good for a Grandmaster trait.

Now that the Resistance boon exists, there is a better mechanism to use for the general effect to make it both stronger (against Power builds) and weaker (against condition builds) at the same time. ANet just has to actually do it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Complaints about Diamond Skin’s current function have been around for a looooong time. It’s just seen a lot more often now that it doesn’t preclude you from maxing Arcana and getting at least Master tier traits in Water Magic.

It’s still a horridly designed trait: either garunteeing a win or being completely useless. Neither are good for a Grandmaster trait.

Now that the Resistance boon exists, there is a better mechanism to use for the general effect to make it both stronger (against Power builds) and weaker (against condition builds) at the same time. ANet just has to actually do it.

Condi builds need even more counters and the only thing that needs changing is the way condi damage is calculated/applied.

Toughness should affect condition damage and condi clear should be increased on ranger/warrior.

Too many happy trigger condi spammers in PvP atm to even suggest that condi builds need help

Supreme.3164:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Complaints about Diamond Skin’s current function have been around for a looooong time. It’s just seen a lot more often now that it doesn’t preclude you from maxing Arcana and getting at least Master tier traits in Water Magic.

It’s still a horridly designed trait: either garunteeing a win or being completely useless. Neither are good for a Grandmaster trait.

Now that the Resistance boon exists, there is a better mechanism to use for the general effect to make it both stronger (against Power builds) and weaker (against condition builds) at the same time. ANet just has to actually do it.

Condi builds need even more counters and the only thing that needs changing is the way condi damage is calculated/applied.

Toughness should affect condition damage and condi clear should be increased on ranger/warrior.

Too many happy trigger condi spammers in PvP atm to even suggest that condi builds need help

If Toughness affected Condition damage, everyone would be wearing Knight’s gear, since nothing counters it.

Ranger/Warrior both shrug off conditions like water as-is. They don’t need even more condi clear. Ranger does, however, have an argument for having condition clear options that exist outside of Wilderness Survival and don’t screw the pooch (literally!)

Also, did we not just have a massive patch changing how condition damage is calculated? Pretty sure every damaging condition got its damage changed.

And of course, even with the recent changes, it is still a heavily Power dominated meta.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

And of course, even with the recent changes, it is still a heavily Power dominated meta.

Quoted for emphasis. It reminds me of that week when everyone said every profession was ruining the game. How is it that now condition specs and power specs are both OP?

I think everything is OP guys…

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So ah, Diamond skin aint just a nifty trait to give conditions a hard time. While it might proc the ‘immune’ floater when you’re trying to land a condi on an ele running this trait, it might aswell spam “invulnerable” to any condition build that gives the ele a sideways look. Especially considering things like D/D ele with their high mobility/reset and burst healing. Vs. a condi build, diamon skin is teh passive OP .

• Suggested change: Diamond Skin grants 3s resistance every 3s while health is above the threshold- 90%.

This way a condi user can still stack up his condi’s, but can also strip the resistance as counter play to create windows of opportunity to take the Diamond Skin ele down. This would make actual dodging/evading important again for the ele instead of just ignoring all condi builds actions -_-u

We got resistance now. Might as well use it and solve some problems we couldn’t before.

Its funny how you’re protecting Mesmers in every “Mesmer OP”-thread but you’re calling Diamond Skin OP..

You sure know how to be biased.

Also, condi mesmers are so broken they can just faceroll every 1v1.. If you struggle with Diamond Skin, I have bad news for you..

If you think I’ve been “protecting Mesmer” in those threads then you either didn’t read closely, or more than likely just don’t understand what I’m doing in them. As for calling Diamon Skin OP, I don’t think I ever said that. I have called it badly designed multiple times, however. What I did do was suggest a change to make it better designed, and actually if you consider my proposal what I’ve suggested is a buff. Because a proc of 3 seconds of resistance that starts right before an ele’s health threshold drops below 90% will guarantee condi immunity beyond the health loss, even allowing for the threshold to be regained. As it currently works, the moment you go below 90% health it’s gone and condi’s will hit with full effect.

So as far as bias’ goes, yes, of course I have a bias. Everyone has bias’, you don’t fault people for it. I’m biased toward good game design, for example. You have an apparent bias against condi mesmers “being broken and faceroll” as another example. Some bias’ are bad, some are good, but you have to justify your claims as to why that’s so. Fortunately for me you’re just flat out wrong about what my bias’ are, so until you can make an accurate claim there’s really nothing to discuss

Anyway, try to stay on topic and be constructive, otherwise your posts will just be removed. Getting personal will only lead to infractions. Simple as that.

Ok lemme get on topic:

Diamon Skin is fine and should not change. It has more than enough counters in Conquest.

Also: “Especially considering things like D/D ele with their high mobility/reset and burst healing. Vs. a condi build, diamon skin is teh passive OP .” This is where you certainly call it OP.. I can read, tyvm.

Oh right, that comment. Serves me right for using rhetoric I guess. In otherwords (note the use of “teh”), I was highlighting the expression you typically see across the forums when people use terms like “OP” and lament passive effects. Never the less, I don’t think the diamond skin is OP in the purest sense of the term, rather that it’s bad game design. So I apologize for confusing you.

Saiyan.1704:

People supporting Diamond Skin as if the trait is justifiable.

People Defending Diamond Skin

hide spoiler

“Yall are using Rabids, you should beat them with Carrion”
Nothing changes. Both amulets have the same performance against DS. You have 0 experience about this and should stop posting here.

“Oh well, it’s a team game. No one 1v1’s and if they do it only lasts for 5s.”
Want me to list Tournament videos of where people 1v1ing for 10+ seconds? More importantly, list videos where losing 1v1’s caused people a node and a potential comeback? 1v1 happens in Tournaments ALL the time.

Reasons against Diamond Skin

hide spoiler

“No other single trait counters an entire build like Diamond Skin”
No one can rebuttal this.

“There is no counterplay against it if you’re conditions.”
No one can rebuttal this.

As if Conditions didn’t have to worry about the Numerous AoE cleanses this game has.

Excellent summary, thank you!

Saiyan.1704:

People supporting Diamond Skin as if the trait is justifiable.

People Defending Diamond Skin

hide spoiler

“Yall are using Rabids, you should beat them with Carrion”
Nothing changes. Both amulets have the same performance against DS. You have 0 experience about this and should stop posting here.

“Oh well, it’s a team game. No one 1v1’s and if they do it only lasts for 5s.”
Want me to list Tournament videos of where people 1v1ing for 10+ seconds? More importantly, list videos where losing 1v1’s caused people a node and a potential comeback? 1v1 happens in Tournaments ALL the time.

Reasons against Diamond Skin

hide spoiler

“No other single trait counters an entire build like Diamond Skin”
No one can rebuttal this.

“There is no counterplay against it if you’re conditions.”
No one can rebuttal this.

As if Conditions didn’t have to worry about the Numerous AoE cleanses this game has.

+1

Saiyan.1704:

People supporting Diamond Skin as if the trait is justifiable.

People Defending Diamond Skin

hide spoiler

“Yall are using Rabids, you should beat them with Carrion”
Nothing changes. Both amulets have the same performance against DS. You have 0 experience about this and should stop posting here.

“Oh well, it’s a team game. No one 1v1’s and if they do it only lasts for 5s.”
Want me to list Tournament videos of where people 1v1ing for 10+ seconds? More importantly, list videos where losing 1v1’s caused people a node and a potential comeback? 1v1 happens in Tournaments ALL the time.

Reasons against Diamond Skin

hide spoiler

“No other single trait counters an entire build like Diamond Skin”
No one can rebuttal this.

“There is no counterplay against it if you’re conditions.”
No one can rebuttal this.

As if Conditions didn’t have to worry about the Numerous AoE cleanses this game has.

The thing is Diamond Skin is a meta trait for a meta build: pure condition. If no one is running conditions in mass, or burst damage is consistent enough in most encounters, then people have no reason to take it. If everyone starts running condition builds, and little burst is present, then Diamond Skin becomes a good trait.

Condition builds have always been meta dependent. Diamond Skin is just a hilarious slap in the face, and if your build is getting bricked by it, then you have to make a new build or just accept the fact that this is your bad match-up and not take those fights.

Its interesting to see people in a fuss over such a situational trait, when Stone Heart exist in the same tier and is better than it at just stopping damage in general since it nulls the many condition on critical effects that exist in the game.

This whole thread reminds me of someone complaining about pyroclasm while running goblins in Magic the Gathering.

Numot.3965:

This whole thread reminds me of someone complaining about pyroclasm while running goblins in Magic the Gathering.

You know how many Goblins have Protection from Red or 3+ Toughness? Quite a lot more than you would think.

Yeah, I think this is a good reason to go celestial for a condi build. You want to do conditions, sure, but you also want to make sure you have enough power/precision/ferocity to get the elementalist below the threshold.

I would recommend celestial for anyone who wants a condition build that is effective against elementalists.

Yes, I realize that this means your condition build is really a hybrid build. So, who cares?

A Volcano.2510:

Yeah, I think this is a good reason to go celestial for a condi build. You want to do conditions, sure, but you also want to make sure you have enough power/precision/ferocity to get the elementalist below the threshold.

I would recommend celestial for anyone who wants a condition build that is effective against elementalists.

Yes, I realize that this means your condition build is really a hybrid build. So, who cares?

I would recommend a cele build over condition for all classes actually there is no point in a full condition spec despite those nay-sayers but it’s still no excuse for the way DS works.

Diamond skin needs a nerf.

Saiyan.1704:

Currently there’s no counterplay to it.. at all!

I rather it worked like Stone Heart. The trait only takes effect if the Ele is in Earth or Water Attunement so that condi players can offer counterplay, rather than being completely countered by a single trait.

This! I find the eles sustain more annoying to deal with than their fire dps. I don’t want to nerf cuckold classes and I love that a complex class is very viable but the strength of ele needs to be moved away to some of it’s other utility because it’s not fair where it currently is.

Tldr; This trait is completely broken and it’s things like this that mean pure condi builds will never be viable in competitive play.

I’d also argue plague signet + plague signet passive is also pretty oppressive for condi users but that’s another thread I guess.

Hammerguard.9834:

Tldr; This trait is completely broken and it’s things like this that mean pure condi builds will never be viable in competitive play.

I’d also argue plague signet + plague signet passive is also pretty oppressive for condi users but that’s another thread I guess.

so because 1 class out of 9 is able to fully counter a full condi build in a 1v1 things are broken? but only by making huge dps sacrifices, and forget about anything other than 1v1?

yeah nothing wrong with diamond skin, if anything the threshold should be lowered to 80%

otherwise it is a niche trait (doesnt help against anything but full condi) that most ele’s won’t take anyway unless they feel like making major sacrifices to their build.

tl;dr diamond skin is fine where it is

So you think just because it’s only one class that can make condi classes completely ineffective it’s okay? What if diamond skin prevented all direct damage if an elementalist was above 90% health? It’s the same exact problem. There are two sources of damage in this game and there should never be a way to completely nullify either one so trivially. On top of that, you don’t have to be a full condi character to have extremely useful conditions. Blind, chilled, crippled, fear, immobilized, poison, vulnerability, and weakness; all accessible and useful to direct damage characters that become completely useless because of a single trait.

And don’t lie to yourself about this “dps sacrifice” garbage.

Engineer had their 100% condition immunity nerfed for a reason. Elementalists should not be able to directly counter condition builds. This omits the skill factor from gameplay. This fix also would not affect the meta fire/water/arc cele ele. It would simply prevent Immortal earth/water/arc specs. Again, counter building prevents skillful gameplay.

Zelulose.8695:

Engineer had their 100% condition immunity nerfed for a reason. Elementalists should not be able to directly counter condition builds. This omits the skill factor from gameplay. This fix also would not affect the meta fire/water/arc cele ele. It would simply prevent Immortal earth/water/arc specs. Again, counter building prevents skillful gameplay.

What’s interesting is that the Engineer condition immunity was better designed in the first place for a few reasons.

1. You likely had conditions already on you when it triggered which would still run as normal. This could potentially have been enough to kill you without cleansing. Diamond Skin, this isn’t the case, since you start immune.

2. The Engineer couldn’t simply out-heal incoming direct damage and maintain their immunity. The Engineer had a balancing act to do, healing back enough that the direct damage they took wouldn’t kill them, but not so much as to lose their immunity. Diamond Skin, again, doesn’t have this balancing act.

3. If the Engineer was enjoying condition immunity, then got +1’d, they were in a really dangerous position, since they were low on health and could easily be killed. Again, not an issue for Diamond Skin because to maintain that immunity, you are already in the ideal situation (high on health) if you get +1’d.

And yet, despite this, it was the Engineer immunity that got nerfed when that was really the more interesting, weaker, and better designed of the two.