Guild Wars 2

I think one of the biggest things that makes DS too strong is that condi’s can’t even by applied above the threshold.

I suggest making DS pulse 1 second of resistance every second (or more?) on the ele while he/she is inflicted with a condition.

I believe this to be a good middle ground between both sides.

Pulsing Resistance makes the trait work with boonstrip so that sounds great for counterplay. There are good reasons to push the rate/duration up or to keep it as it is, as well; longer pulse means it’ll last longer once the Ele passes the threshold but boonstrip is stronger, etc.

Not every class has access to boon strip though. Better would be something like 5s of resistance when struck with a condition above 90% HP, with a ICD of 12-15s. Or a different mechanic, like gaining a bubble that absorbs 10-15 incoming condies on a 30s ICD that gets activated when above a health threshold.

You want to nerf the only counter to the foulness that is Mallyx rev? No, thank you. We actually need more hard counters to condis.

roamzero.9486:

Not every class has access to boon strip though.

Yes they do

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Nullification

Daharahj.1325:

You want to nerf the only counter to the foulness that is Mallyx rev? No, thank you. We actually need more hard counters to condis.

Why not just nerf mallyx rev

Daharahj.1325:

You want to nerf the only counter to the foulness that is Mallyx rev? No, thank you. We actually need more hard counters to condis.

I disagree with the concept of “hard-counters.” Rather than keeping DS the same. How about some nerf to mallyx rev? I don’t know enough about them, though. So I can’t suggest what that could be.

Razor.9872:

I disagree with the concept of “hard-counters.” Rather than keeping DS the same. How about some nerf to mallyx rev? I don’t know enough about them, though. So I can’t suggest what that could be.

Pretty ezpz; change Unyielding Anguish so that it can’t stack, like how Thief’s Choking Gas can’t stack.

Nerf Diamond Skin when Reapers chill gets nerfed.

I don’t think people understand how absolutely destructive chill is to an ele.

Ya it’s not like you can’t remove chill on dodge or anything lol. Or use svanir runes.

But I do agree that ele needs some changes to make other builds viable.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Nerf Diamond Skin when Reapers chill gets nerfed.

I don’t think people understand how absolutely destructive chill is to an ele.

Reaper applies chill so easily and abundantly that my suggestion wouldn’t change that aspect much.

Razor.9872:

I think one of the biggest things that makes DS too strong is that condi’s can’t even by applied above the threshold.

I suggest making DS pulse 1 second of resistance every second (or more?) on the ele while he/she is inflicted with a condition.

I believe this to be a good middle ground between both sides.

Not a bad suggestion, but 1s pulses is too short, cause then u cant boon strip the resistance cause its constantly refreshing. They would be even stronger against condis then. But I think you have the right idea. I think it should just be like 5s of resistance every 5s. So you have time to boon rip before the next application hits

Nova Stiker.8396:

Nerf Diamond Skin when Reapers chill gets nerfed.

I don’t think people understand how absolutely destructive chill is to an ele.

Yeah chill is destructive for eles (btw it can also destructive for every other profession) but eles have ways to deal with chill unlike pure condition builds that cant do anything against ds.

Though if there was something i would change, it would probably that eles attunement swaps should work exactly like weapon swap meaning they dont get effected by the cd increase/decrease of chill/alacrity. After all attunement swaps are nothing more then glorified weapons swaps and the mechanics should be more consistent.

Options to consider with Diamond Skin…

1-You can make it become a creative way to mitigate conditions. It used to be that way, though unrecognized, before Heart of Thorns.

2-It could be used as an alternate way to play and deal with conditions heavy build without using the traditionnal tools brought to deal with condition as an elementalist: read cantrips and water traits. So you could use a non-cantrip, air, earth arcane or fire earth arcane build. Those build needed a substantial theorycraft to achieve a balanced state. Those builds I used were some settler dps builds with conjured weapon that could acheive up to 700k damage after a game (before icebow nerfs).

3-Some builds used water and cantrips alongside Diamond Skin. This could have caused some massive issues as this sort of build is way too effective against conditions. Before HoT, some used the d/d earth water arcane, but was dropped in favor of d/d fire water arcane.

4- We’ve seen a comeback of Diamond Skin with Tempest with the same intention illustrated on point 2. Though, most also accompany DS with condition clears. Tempest also offers 7% more damage mitigation through improved protection and more healing. This becomes an issue.

Solutions.

When above 90% health threshold, you are affected by Diamond Skin. While in the effect of Diamond Skin, you negate all effects caused by conditions. Those conditions can still be applied.

Before HoT, one solution I thought about was to have Diamond Skin give a buff (not a boon) that would grant the equivalent of resistance that would be inneffective after dropping below the threshold. So, over 90% health, conditions are inneffective but can still be applied. This change would actually hit builds that combine condition clear and DS because DS is not stopping conditions from being applied anymore.

For exemple, you could have an elementalist in a rather odd situation with 9 burn stacks but still above 90%. Dropping the elementalist below the threshold would make those stacks very dangerous, so here’s the trade-off if. Though, it could play to the advantage of the elementalist that can manage to get back to the threshold even with conditions ticking.

^ That is basically resistance without the strippable part.

Razor.9872:

I think one of the biggest things that makes DS too strong is that condi’s can’t even by applied above the threshold.

I suggest making DS pulse 1 second of resistance every second (or more?) on the ele while he/she is inflicted with a condition.

I believe this to be a good middle ground between both sides.

What you’re suggesting would obliterate the trait and its completely unnecessary.

I’ll give you a pro tip on dealing with diamond skin Eles, crack the effect with burst. Seems straightforward right? Most players I run across throw Condi at my Ele 1st which is a mistake. The players who cause me issues run hybrid and deal strong direct damage (cracking my diamond skin) and then Condi bomb. The best at this are cele signet necromancers and pistol Engis although the later are pretty rare now.

If you’re having issues change your build. Deal strong enough direct damage to get an Ele to 89% then overwhelm them with Condis. The Ele will be busy clearing those conditions but since you’re hybrid you can keep dealing direct damage and conditions keeping them below the threshold. If you’re running 100% condition or 100% direct damage builds of course you’re going to struggle with them, they’re bunker builds.

Good Eles will reset the fight but you won’t be getting your lunch money stolen anymore.

100% pure passive immunity is a bad mechanic.

A less hateful version of the exact same trait was removed from Engineer due to it being terrible design.

Change the trait to something much more clever like reduced condi damage per condition on the Elementalist.

Pure immunity traits have no place in a competitive game.

This trait is the only significant concern with balance at the minute, as it is the only thing which completely hardcounters half of all potential builds.

Summery of Entire Thread/

All I am hearing is complaining from players who play OP Condi builds because they can’t 1 shot an ele. ANET pls nerf DS so I can now be OP and broken vs everything.

ELE having DS means that I can no longer be carried by my broekn build so if the ele is better than me which is probably true becasue I am a FOTM player than I must complain to ANET for nerf so I can has easy mode.

/thread

Warlord.9074:

Summery of Entire Thread/

All I am hearing is complaining from players who play OP Condi builds because they can’t 1 shot an ele. ANET pls nerf DS so I can now be OP and broken vs everything.

ELE having DS means that I can no longer be carried by my broekn build so if the ele is better than me which is probably true becasue I am a FOTM player than I must complain to ANET for nerf so I can has easy mode.

/thread

Well said and thumbs up.

Brew Pinch.5731:

100% pure passive immunity is a bad mechanic.

A less hateful version of the exact same trait was removed from Engineer due to it being terrible design.

Change the trait to something much more clever like reduced condi damage per condition on the Elementalist.

Pure immunity traits have no place in a competitive game.

This trait is the only significant concern with balance at the minute, as it is the only thing which completely hardcounters half of all potential builds.

You’re saying this one trait which isn’t new is the only issue that needs to addressed in PvP….

In case you didn’t know, rangers, warriors, mesmers, guardians just to name half, have immunity skills or abilities but good luck on your witch hunt.

Warlord.9074:

Summery of Entire Thread/

All I am hearing is complaining from players who play OP Condi builds because they can’t 1 shot an ele. ANET pls nerf DS so I can now be OP and broken vs everything.

ELE having DS means that I can no longer be carried by my broekn build so if the ele is better than me which is probably true becasue I am a FOTM player than I must complain to ANET for nerf so I can has easy mode.

/thread

Actually, I don’t play condi (feels too passive for my taste). I just disagree with hard-counters.

DS stops the one trick condi overload ponies , huh who would have thought that we should have a counter available to instant 4 conditions with 3 more on the way. funny that on decent teams and with decent players they seem to have someone burst the ele for all of 2200 health and then the condi necro,mesmer or revenant gets to have his fun. I swear across all the game types these days no one wants to use their brain or have situational awareness. If you are a condi burst player maybe uhm I dunno don’t dump all your condi’s on an ele with full health, maybe even work with your team and follow the straight DPS of a team mate up with your condi burst. adapt and overcome….problem solving, don’t put all your eggs in one basket I dunno there is counter play to everything in this game if one thinks about it. rocks, paper scissors isnt that hard to figure out

Suggestions:

- Make diamond skin ignore protection. Then you should focus more on power for the first 10%.
- Make diamond skin only negate damaging conditions. Movement impediments still apply.

The main issue with DS I feel is not the fact that you can’t do condi damage, but the fact that you can’t slow the lolzy ele down to set up for anything. And they can run in circles4dayz

Daharahj.1325:

You want to nerf the only counter to the foulness that is Mallyx rev? No, thank you. We actually need more hard counters to condis.

The problem is that these extremes also hurt those builds which have a major reliance on minor conditions. You could make it immunity to damage causing conditions to tone it down, but I would like to land my immobilize every now and again.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Brew Pinch.5731:

100% pure passive immunity is a bad mechanic.

A less hateful version of the exact same trait was removed from Engineer due to it being terrible design.

Change the trait to something much more clever like reduced condi damage per condition on the Elementalist.

Pure immunity traits have no place in a competitive game.

This trait is the only significant concern with balance at the minute, as it is the only thing which completely hardcounters half of all potential builds.

You’re saying this one trait which isn’t new is the only issue that needs to addressed in PvP….

In case you didn’t know, rangers, warriors, mesmers, guardians just to name half, have immunity skills or abilities but good luck on your witch hunt.

They have to give up a utility skill for an immunity that isn’t up for but a tiny fraction of the fight. A bunker tempest with DS can be completely immune to all conditions while holding a point against 2 opposing players. I have seen skilled reapers with marauder do 2-3 rotations against a tempest and not get them below the 90% threshold but for a couple seconds. I’m sorry if you disagree, but DS is oppressive and toxic when combined with the best healing in the game, permanent 40% damage reduction, and ridiculous stability uptime.

Daharahj.1325:

You want to nerf the only counter to the foulness that is Mallyx rev? No, thank you. We actually need more hard counters to condis.

It’s about Every condi class being completely shut down when it comes to a 1on1.Dont give me this…“the game isnt build around 1on1”,diamond skin is just an aweful mechanic..Completely shutting down a build while staying at 100% yourself is broken in every sense.Imagine if something like this was ingame vs power.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Razor.9872:

I think one of the biggest things that makes DS too strong is that condi’s can’t even by applied above the threshold.

I suggest making DS pulse 1 second of resistance every second (or more?) on the ele while he/she is inflicted with a condition.

I believe this to be a good middle ground between both sides.

What you’re suggesting would obliterate the trait and its completely unnecessary.

I’ll give you a pro tip on dealing with diamond skin Eles, crack the effect with burst. Seems straightforward right? Most players I run across throw Condi at my Ele 1st which is a mistake. The players who cause me issues run hybrid and deal strong direct damage (cracking my diamond skin) and then Condi bomb. The best at this are cele signet necromancers and pistol Engis although the later are pretty rare now.

If you’re having issues change your build. Deal strong enough direct damage to get an Ele to 89% then overwhelm them with Condis. The Ele will be busy clearing those conditions but since you’re hybrid you can keep dealing direct damage and conditions keeping them below the threshold. If you’re running 100% condition or 100% direct damage builds of course you’re going to struggle with them, they’re bunker builds.

Good Eles will reset the fight but you won’t be getting your lunch money stolen anymore.

Cele signet necros need to outplay (read: be way better than) an ele in order to break DS and then apply enough condi/direct dmg (condi dmg is rather low cause you need dagger to break DS, no way with scepter) to avoid the reset of the ele. If the ele is smart enough, he will time his immunity/protection/heal when you are doing your direct dmg burst and laugh at your face when he downs you 100% HP

Warlord.9074:

Summery of Entire Thread/

All I am hearing is complaining from players who play OP Condi builds because they can’t 1 shot an ele. ANET pls nerf DS so I can now be OP and broken vs everything.

ELE having DS means that I can no longer be carried by my broekn build so if the ele is better than me which is probably true becasue I am a FOTM player than I must complain to ANET for nerf so I can has easy mode.

/thread

If a trait can make an OP build to be useless, wtf is the trait? godmode OP?

Seriously now, please read your post another time and think carefully about what you’ve just said…

I would love for diamond skin to keep its same mechanic however only apply to condition damage dealing. Having immunity to all conditions is pretty insane.

panaku.7239:

I would love for diamond skin to keep its same mechanic however only apply to condition damage dealing. Having immunity to all conditions is pretty insane.

This.

But again, Anet loves to give Ele preferential treatment, other classes get hit all the time and Ele just immune from nerfs. Truly “diamond skin” of a class.

We need to pool our resources to get this nerfed, it’s long overdue.

I agree that DS is designed badly and allows no counterplay unless you play viper. However, I believe that before DS gets reworked, there need to be changes to the amount of condition pressure some classes can do. Mallyx revenant is going to get nerfed tomorrow and we should see how that’s gonna turn out first. DS is the only thing that keeps ele in the meta somehow, once you break it, the ele just melts.

I would like to point out ele does not counter Mallyx rev as it’s literally no issue for them to break it on viper. The only thing that DS is good against considering 1v1’s is carrion/rabid reaper.

And to the post above me: Ele has been getting nerfs unlike other classes that were getting buffs mostly. With the trait revamp they completely killed two barely viable specs, which was fresh air zerker ele and condition ele. Cele ele had its damage reduced significantly and is definitely not the strongest spec in current meta, it’s basically a heal/buff bot, nothing else. It has issues taking any 1v1 and can at best just stalemate it and won’t kill you unless given A LOT of time to do it.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Brew Pinch.5731:

100% pure passive immunity is a bad mechanic.

A less hateful version of the exact same trait was removed from Engineer due to it being terrible design.

Change the trait to something much more clever like reduced condi damage per condition on the Elementalist.

Pure immunity traits have no place in a competitive game.

This trait is the only significant concern with balance at the minute, as it is the only thing which completely hardcounters half of all potential builds.

You’re saying this one trait which isn’t new is the only issue that needs to addressed in PvP….

In case you didn’t know, rangers, warriors, mesmers, guardians just to name half, have immunity skills or abilities but good luck on your witch hunt.

They have to give up a utility skill for an immunity that isn’t up for but a tiny fraction of the fight. A bunker tempest with DS can be completely immune to all conditions while holding a point against 2 opposing players. I have seen skilled reapers with marauder do 2-3 rotations against a tempest and not get them below the 90% threshold but for a couple seconds. I’m sorry if you disagree, but DS is oppressive and toxic when combined with the best healing in the game, permanent 40% damage reduction, and ridiculous stability uptime.

If you can’t break DS in two, then it’s your own problem.

Ridiculous stability uptime? The meta build has very little to no stability. I’m not sure what you’re facing, but the ele has either zero stability or Armour of Earth on ridiculous cooldown or eventually Rock Solid, which is two freaking seconds base of ONE STACK of stab. And guess what? Not many people even take these.

Laraley.7695:

I agree that DS is designed badly and allows no counterplay unless you play viper. However, I believe that before DS gets reworked, there need to be changes to the amount of condition pressure some classes can do. Mallyx revenant is going to get nerfed tomorrow and we should see how that’s gonna turn out first. DS is the only thing that keeps ele in the meta somehow, once you break it, the ele just melts.

I would like to point out ele does not counter Mallyx rev as it’s literally no issue for them to break it on viper. The only thing that DS is good against considering 1v1’s is carrion/rabid reaper.

And to the post above me: Ele has been getting nerfs unlike other classes that were getting buffs mostly. With the trait revamp they completely killed two barely viable specs, which was fresh air zerker ele and condition ele. Cele ele had its damage reduced significantly and is definitely not the strongest spec in current meta, it’s basically a heal/buff bot, nothing else. It has issues taking any 1v1 and can at best just stalemate it and won’t kill you unless given A LOT of time to do it.

you must be talking about rev again only cause viper on anyone else is much worse than rabid or carrion. there is currently only 1.5 condi classes in meta. rev and half a necro.

if you agree that diamond skin should stay as is to keep those OP condi builds from playing then i suggest we nerf rev and give them power diamond skin. that way all those power builds are forced to take some condi… fair is fair right?

Milan.9035:

Laraley.7695:

I agree that DS is designed badly and allows no counterplay unless you play viper. However, I believe that before DS gets reworked, there need to be changes to the amount of condition pressure some classes can do. Mallyx revenant is going to get nerfed tomorrow and we should see how that’s gonna turn out first. DS is the only thing that keeps ele in the meta somehow, once you break it, the ele just melts.

I would like to point out ele does not counter Mallyx rev as it’s literally no issue for them to break it on viper. The only thing that DS is good against considering 1v1’s is carrion/rabid reaper.

And to the post above me: Ele has been getting nerfs unlike other classes that were getting buffs mostly. With the trait revamp they completely killed two barely viable specs, which was fresh air zerker ele and condition ele. Cele ele had its damage reduced significantly and is definitely not the strongest spec in current meta, it’s basically a heal/buff bot, nothing else. It has issues taking any 1v1 and can at best just stalemate it and won’t kill you unless given A LOT of time to do it.

you must be talking about rev again only cause viper on anyone else is much worse than rabid or carrion. there is currently only 1.5 condi classes in meta. rev and half a necro.

if you agree that diamond skin should stay as is to keep those OP condi builds from playing then i suggest we nerf rev and give them power diamond skin. that way all those power builds are forced to take some condi… fair is fair right?

Yes, I was obviously talking about revenants. You can also see I said ‘’Mallyx rev’‘, not sure why you’re asking.

Did you reply to just complain or did you actually read what I said? I mean seriously, right the first sentence says I don’t agree with DS being the way it is. DS also won’t keep revenants out of meta, they actually don’t have such a hard time killing a tempest. It’s not the best duel for revenant, but they have the edge. However, the game is not about 1v1’s.

The only thing I said was that we should wait and see how the changes will alter the meta and then change things. What kills tempest right now are conditions and it could end up being overbuffed. However, if there’s not that much condition pressure anymore, different changes might be needed. Please, read before you reply.

I’m not entirely sure Diamond Skin changing would rip Tempests out of the meta so much as mean they actually need to slot some condi cleanse. They could do this simply by using Trooper runes without changing the rest of the meta build. Other than Dagger/Warhorn, every Ele weapon set has a condition cleanse (which is more than any other profession can say, although Necro’s are more potent).

Given Shout Warriors were once sufficient to push condition builds entirely out of the meta, Trooper Rune Tempests played well probably don’t actually need Diamond Skin to survive conditions, since they do what Shout Warriors did, but better.

Even so, I’d like to see Diamond Skin remain an anti-condition trait regardless of whatever (if anything) happens to it. Just needs to be less binary.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’m not entirely sure Diamond Skin changing would rip Tempests out of the meta so much as mean they actually need to slot some condi cleanse. They could do this simply by using Trooper runes without changing the rest of the meta build. Other than Dagger/Warhorn, every Ele weapon set has a condition cleanse (which is more than any other profession can say, although Necro’s are more potent).

Given Shout Warriors were once sufficient to push condition builds entirely out of the meta, Trooper Rune Tempests played well probably don’t actually need Diamond Skin to survive conditions, since they do what Shout Warriors did, but better.

Even so, I’d like to see Diamond Skin remain an anti-condition trait regardless of whatever (if anything) happens to it. Just needs to be less binary.

This is false. Even a low MMR necro can just spam condies on you.

75 second rebound?
45 second aftershock?

so you basically only have 3 shouts that are <30 seconds.

Thats an average of 3 conditions every 24 seconds.

You have to trait into cleansing water and ivigorating torrents. Just to make it feasible.

But you dont have any aura team support and stability on overloads which I think is very dumb not to get it, even with the presence of a good team.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’m not entirely sure Diamond Skin changing would rip Tempests out of the meta so much as mean they actually need to slot some condi cleanse. They could do this simply by using Trooper runes without changing the rest of the meta build. Other than Dagger/Warhorn, every Ele weapon set has a condition cleanse (which is more than any other profession can say, although Necro’s are more potent).

Given Shout Warriors were once sufficient to push condition builds entirely out of the meta, Trooper Rune Tempests played well probably don’t actually need Diamond Skin to survive conditions, since they do what Shout Warriors did, but better.

Even so, I’d like to see Diamond Skin remain an anti-condition trait regardless of whatever (if anything) happens to it. Just needs to be less binary.

Eles already use Soldier runes and still melt to condis when DS is broken. Too much AoE condition pressure for the lowest hp pool class.

Dumbest idea ever. Leave diamond skin alone.

Zephyron.7081:

Dumbest idea ever. Leave diamond skin alone.

I disagree. I don’t believe this game has room for such blantant hard-counters. Especially passive ones.

The suggestion would still give condi immunity above 90%. It just wouldn’t be as absolute.