Guild Wars 2

i’d be happy with zerker stance reducing duration by 50% but also removing 3 conditions upon activation.

Sensotix.4106:

With the upcoming ele buffs and nerfs of other classes diamond skin could actually play a big role in pvp vs condi classes like ranger or necro (especially necro)…

since a 100% condition immunity to a specific sort of damage is a very bad mechanic without counterplay for some classes it should not be in the game

having automated response changed that conditions can be applied but only last 50% as long is a very good idea and is really good for the game

Now let’s check some other traits or skills in the game which have that

Bersercer’s stance: imo it should be changed the same way decrease the cooldown but make it so conditions can be applied with only 50% the duration
Diamond Skin: same thing basically as ar: change it so that it lasts till 75% or 80% of the ele’s hp but only reduce the condi duration by 50%

With these changes and the rest of the upcoming changes i am quite optimistic when it comes to the next months of gw2

+1 to this idea.

This would definitely be a fair change.

Ostricheggs.3742:

On topic though, I agree 100% with the general immunity stuff. Active forms of condi clear are far better for the game than raw immunity at certain HP or “hit one button and be immune to condis loool”. Hard counters are very bad for this game. There is nothing worse than being a player and realizing that you cannot do anything to another player simply because his spec is a hard counter. They’ve leaned in this direction for quite some time and it’s a kitten shame to see.

Well, then one should also talk about passive condi stuff thats going on right now.
I watch your stream often, and it’s really disgusting what one single #2 of the NGs pistol does to so many professions.

You all talk about hardcounters like diamond Skin, the thing is those are somewhat needed right now !

And sure, in certain 1v1 situations an ele with DS and 30pt in Water will be unkillable by a single person, but where is this different to guards and NGs now ?

I belive this will be okay, and we’ll have to see when the patch hits us- they will also change so many other thinks like runes and sigils, who of us knows what will happen ?

And if bunker ele get’s his spot against certain matchups it’s only fair , he was out of the game for a long time.
And i am sure, the future ele will be nowhere as OP as the old D/D bunker was back in the days.

Sensotix.4106:

Liewec.2896:

no counter play? how about you deal 2k damage?
thats what? a few auto attacks? or 1-2 hits from your flesh golem?

somehow can’t manage to deal 2k damage? (in some crazy alternate universe)
just slot lightning sigil, 3 second cooldown, around 1500 damage.

honestly 10% of an eles health is nothing.
i don’t like the trait because i feel it is too weak
the moment someone looks at an ele that ele loses 10% of their hp.

try that as a necro (and please dont come with “slot a lightning sigil on one of the weapons”)

why? condi necros spec far in the tree that grants them crit chance,
the sigil will pretty much proc every 3 seconds taking the ele down 10%.

if diamond skin was really the problem that people in this thread make it out to be then you wouldn’t be against a sigil that counters them.

i for one know that if there was a sigil that instantly counters hambows i’d slot it without question.

so diamond skin can’t really be that much of an issue if you aren’t willing to sacrifice a sigil slot to counter them.

I have thought a lot about the idea of traited hard-counters, and the more I think about it, the more I am sort-of ok with them, with the EXTREME CAVEAT, that they are only applicable to the most angular of builds. This is especially true since ANet is pushing for more customization in your build, in general.

For instance, most condi/tank builds get a little too much reward for their risk and aren’t very incentivized to give up some of their condi-spam for physical damage (as through runes or sigils, for instance). Putting in a hard-counter allows you to still spec this way, but increases the risk on such a build. In theory, this should push more people more towards a balanced-ish spec.

If having traits/skills like these can incentivize players to build their burst a little less burst, their bunkers a little less bunker-y, and their condi-spam a little less spammy (via being carried random/extra procs) then its a good thing.

The only issue is that such options are very delicate to balance. In all honesty, if Diamond Skin ever did become meta, its VERY EASY to get around without altering too much about your build. D. Skin is also very bad if the build isn’t specifically made to utilize it (by having lots of extra heals, or perhaps signet of restoration), meaning that sacrifices have to made.

Berzerker’s stance, however, is a little harder, as there aren’t many ways to peel that hammer warrior from bashing your face in when you can’t fear, cripple, immob, blind, or chill him. Perhaps zerker’s stance should have some other draw-back such as frenzy (-75% healing during the duration maybe).

Ostricheggs.3742:

There is nothing worse than being a player and realizing that you cannot do anything to another player simply because his spec is a hard counter. They’ve leaned in this direction for quite some time and it’s a kitten shame to see.

Exactly, and it was also THE ONE THING they said they wanted to change from GW1!

Of course “Build Wars” was never as huge a problem as people claimed in GW1, because it was a team game. If one enemy was a hard counter to your build one of your teammates would have something to take him down. But in GW2 the fighting is balanced around 1v1 and the conquest gamemode mandates splitting, so a hard counter means you just have to run away and get your team to send someone else to deal with that enemy!

BlackBeard.2873:

I have thought a lot about the idea of traited hard-counters, and the more I think about it, the more I am sort-of ok with them, with the EXTREME CAVEAT, that they are only applicable to the most angular of builds. This is especially true since ANet is pushing for more customization in your build, in general.

For instance, most condi/tank builds get a little too much reward for their risk and aren’t very incentivized to give up some of their condi-spam for physical damage (as through runes or sigils, for instance). Putting in a hard-counter allows you to still spec this way, but increases the risk on such a build. In theory, this should push more people more towards a balanced-ish spec.

If having traits/skills like these can incentivize players to build their burst a little less burst, their bunkers a little less bunker-y, and their condi-spam a little less spammy (via being carried random/extra procs) then its a good thing.

The only issue is that such options are very delicate to balance. In all honesty, if Diamond Skin ever did become meta, its VERY EASY to get around without altering too much about your build. D. Skin is also very bad if the build isn’t specifically made to utilize it (by having lots of extra heals, or perhaps signet of restoration), meaning that sacrifices have to made.

I am pretty sure this is anets view and it is just based on a lack of understanding of the game imo.

Take necro for example. The class is a condition based class. Almost every trait line has a condition theme. Its only ranged weapons are condition weapons whose physical damage is WOEFUL. Thus making hybrid pretty poor in most scenarios.

Necro also has light armour (which is a huge deal in this game). In addition, it is the only class without any built in, inherent survival mechanics. Blocks, evades, teleports, immunities – this is how to avoid damage in gw2 and necro is the ONLY class in the game which has none of these at all.

Thus, necro is built upon conditions to stay alive. Whether you are power necro/condi necro/hybrid necro/MM necro – then use conditions (fear, cripple, chill) is how you stay alive. By giving everyone else immunity to conditions it just kills necro and it kills fun for necros.

Give me the worst class in the game and I will make it work. But give me a class which literally cannot interact with an opponent and that is just a joke. I am sure engineers feel the same way, and rangers too.

I really can’t believe they added diamond skin to the game. I also dont understand why they buffed berserker stance from 4 to 8 seconds out of nowhere when 5-6 seconds would of easily been sufficient.

Now necro burning is gone (burning is by far the best condi) it means necro really doesnt have any offensive pressure. We are in a way worse position even than before the dhuumfire patch as we have just as many conditions but now every class has had its condition removal buffed an some classes actually have full immunity from your entire class.

Necro is built on conditions. If the post quoted is anets view then they must fundamentally redesign necro and give scepter/staff 100-200% buffs to its physical damage. Same with ranger shortbow/engineer pistol for example. I dont want them to do this because it would suck. But if they insist on immunities then they have to do something to provide counter play to these immunities.

And people go on and on and on about the “condi bunkers”. Like really do these people even play the game. Necro’s, condi engis and (to lesser extent) rangers are VERY VERY easy to focus and kill. Literally when I see a team with those classes I am happy because I know something on the other team might actually die. Completely different when I see guardians, thieves and warriors.

In fact a rabid necro will have under 2500 armour, which is less than a zerker guardain who also has more healing, blocks, blinds, more boons, regen and prot. Sure we have more health but so what? 1 pistol whip and that health advantage is gone. Health pools are never a way to survive in gw2. Not when thieves can backstab carrion necros for 12k and heartseeker you for 9.5k in pvp (had it happen).

So firstly, “condi bunkers” aren’t bunkers in the slightest, if you struggle to get them down then its a skill issue. They are probably better than you. And secondly, the reason these classes need toughness is they often lack survival mechanics and thieves will just destroy them without toughness. And so will warriors. And so will mesmers.

Mesmer, guard and thief, are in my opinion inherently strong. Warrior is strong because their skills are ridiculous.

Liewec.2896:

Sensotix.4106:

Liewec.2896:

no counter play? how about you deal 2k damage?
thats what? a few auto attacks? or 1-2 hits from your flesh golem?

somehow can’t manage to deal 2k damage? (in some crazy alternate universe)
just slot lightning sigil, 3 second cooldown, around 1500 damage.

honestly 10% of an eles health is nothing.
i don’t like the trait because i feel it is too weak
the moment someone looks at an ele that ele loses 10% of their hp.

try that as a necro (and please dont come with “slot a lightning sigil on one of the weapons”)

why? condi necros spec far in the tree that grants them crit chance,
the sigil will pretty much proc every 3 seconds taking the ele down 10%.

if diamond skin was really the problem that people in this thread make it out to be then you wouldn’t be against a sigil that counters them.

i for one know that if there was a sigil that instantly counters hambows i’d slot it without question.

so diamond skin can’t really be that much of an issue if you aren’t willing to sacrifice a sigil slot to counter them.

Why? Because the sigils scale with power and a condition necro does not have power. Therefore the sigil will do pathetic damage which won’t even work in the scenario you want it to work.

So that is the answer. It doesn’t counter diamond skin or berzerkser stance.

Rickster.8752:

Liewec.2896:

Sensotix.4106:

Liewec.2896:

no counter play? how about you deal 2k damage?
thats what? a few auto attacks? or 1-2 hits from your flesh golem?

somehow can’t manage to deal 2k damage? (in some crazy alternate universe)
just slot lightning sigil, 3 second cooldown, around 1500 damage.

honestly 10% of an eles health is nothing.
i don’t like the trait because i feel it is too weak
the moment someone looks at an ele that ele loses 10% of their hp.

try that as a necro (and please dont come with “slot a lightning sigil on one of the weapons”)

why? condi necros spec far in the tree that grants them crit chance,
the sigil will pretty much proc every 3 seconds taking the ele down 10%.

if diamond skin was really the problem that people in this thread make it out to be then you wouldn’t be against a sigil that counters them.

i for one know that if there was a sigil that instantly counters hambows i’d slot it without question.

so diamond skin can’t really be that much of an issue if you aren’t willing to sacrifice a sigil slot to counter them.

Why? Because the sigils scale with power and a condition necro does not have power. Therefore the sigil will do pathetic damage which won’t even work in the scenario you want it to work.

So that is the answer. It doesn’t counter diamond skin or berzerkser stance.

ah you’re right, just tested and it hits for about 500-600 with a condi spec,
though fleshgolem still hits between 600 and 1200 (different skills?) every second.
so i still don’t see how dealing 2k damage is an issue

manveruppd.7601:

Ostricheggs.3742:

There is nothing worse than being a player and realizing that you cannot do anything to another player simply because his spec is a hard counter. They’ve leaned in this direction for quite some time and it’s a kitten shame to see.

Exactly, and it was also THE ONE THING they said they wanted to change from GW1!

Of course “Build Wars” was never as huge a problem as people claimed in GW1, because it was a team game. If one enemy was a hard counter to your build one of your teammates would have something to take him down. But in GW2 the fighting is balanced around 1v1 and the conquest gamemode mandates splitting, so a hard counter means you just have to run away and get your team to send someone else to deal with that enemy!

This^. The main issue with hard counters is that the game requires some form of autonomy on the part of roamers. Furthermore, every individual fight has lasting effects on the outcome of the game whether or not it’s on point, off point, 1v1 or 5v5. Getting hard countered quite often means losing a game. If you don’t have a chance in hell the game isn’t fun.

Rickster.8752:

Liewec.2896:

Sensotix.4106:

Liewec.2896:

no counter play? how about you deal 2k damage?
thats what? a few auto attacks? or 1-2 hits from your flesh golem?

somehow can’t manage to deal 2k damage? (in some crazy alternate universe)
just slot lightning sigil, 3 second cooldown, around 1500 damage.

honestly 10% of an eles health is nothing.
i don’t like the trait because i feel it is too weak
the moment someone looks at an ele that ele loses 10% of their hp.

try that as a necro (and please dont come with “slot a lightning sigil on one of the weapons”)

why? condi necros spec far in the tree that grants them crit chance,
the sigil will pretty much proc every 3 seconds taking the ele down 10%.

if diamond skin was really the problem that people in this thread make it out to be then you wouldn’t be against a sigil that counters them.

i for one know that if there was a sigil that instantly counters hambows i’d slot it without question.

so diamond skin can’t really be that much of an issue if you aren’t willing to sacrifice a sigil slot to counter them.

Why? Because the sigils scale with power and a condition necro does not have power. Therefore the sigil will do pathetic damage which won’t even work in the scenario you want it to work.

So that is the answer. It doesn’t counter diamond skin or berzerkser stance.

The damage is fixed, iirc just like fire sigil