This is specifically about the tournament and structured PvP, not the rest of the events or game types.
Pros:
- A tournament happened, bringing in extra publicity.
- Two teams walked away with cash prizes.
Cons:
- The current metagame remained in place for two-plus months because developers refused to make big changes while a tournament was underway.
- Anyone who actually watched the tournament got to see what a mess the game currently is. “Petting zoo,” as funny as it seemed to be to two developers, actually represents something seriously wrong with the game.
- The viewership numbers were so low that it probably reinforced many people’s perspective that Guild Wars 2 PvP is dead.
Oh PAX was very bad, starting with the absolutely horrible panel answers to the blowout of a tournament that was filled with technical difficulties played by players 99% of the viewers had no connection too.
I think at this point there aren’t any fair weather spvpers left. The people still interested in it have stuck through a year of this kitten, one more problem isn’t going to get them to quit, or at least not for long.
Despite all the problems, it was at least nice to see GW2 in a real tournament setting.
I think at this point there aren’t any fair weather spvpers left. The people still interested in it have stuck through a year of this kitten, one more problem isn’t going to get them to quit, or at least not for long.
Despite all the problems, it was at least nice to see GW2 in a real tournament setting.
This is actually wrong. A bunch of teams, including Team Paradigm, are currently taking breaks until the metagame is fixed. The game is really that bad right now.
The purpose of tournaments is to attract new players by showing how off how awesome and competitive the game is. By almost every account, this tournament failed at doing that. It caused the developers to keep the worst metagame ever in place for two months, and the tournament itself was such a disaster that it likely turned off potential newcomers.
I think at this point there aren’t any fair weather spvpers left. The people still interested in it have stuck through a year of this kitten, one more problem isn’t going to get them to quit, or at least not for long.
Despite all the problems, it was at least nice to see GW2 in a real tournament setting.
Even those dedicated are leaving. Hell, I officially decided to stop playing with my team (Spoons and Sporks) today as its clear the Devs are out of touch with what the player base wants, and are further hamstrung by clear lack of support in the company to do anything about it anyway.
Jumper left, Acandis quit. Lets see how many people from SYNC stay around. You only have about 4 real NA teams remaining outside of SYNC in RNG, Blacklisted, vVv and AL and trust me, at that level of tPvP matchups it gets real boring real fast playing the same 5 teams all night. Mist League proved to be a failure…
The viewership numbers were so low that it probably reinforced many people’s perspective that Guild Wars 2 PvP is dead.
Uhh… there were 5.5k viewers during the tournie. The highest viewer count for a GW2 twitch has been ~9k.
So, by extrapolation, clearly 61.11% of the GW2 population is PvP. (Or you might want to rethink that statement.)
Out of the whole night there was one good thing in it: the glimpses of brilliance that can be found in 1v1 play, and the glimpses of atrocity that can be found in 3 spirit rangers fighting on a node.
I felt trolled when he called it a zoo… so please let me not be reading too much into it and that they are actually fixing that nonsense. Solar Flare has to go for its literally eye-gouging animation, then the other spirits, then the necros. In fact just delete those two classes and leave the other six.
I think the problem with PvP is around the developers sticking to the conquest mode. I think more people would play PvP if there was a team deathmatch. It would also be a lot more fun to watch.
I’m OK with you guys disputing the viewership numbers. That’s the least important issue.
I also expect the developers to change the metagame, but I’m not sure if it will be fixed in the correct way. Just a couple days ago Jon Peters was in a stream’s chat calling spirit rangers highly skillful. To most people, that might seem like a developer cruelly trolling loyal watchers, but he was serious.
I’m OK with you guys disputing the viewership numbers. That’s the least important issue.
I was simply making a remark with regards to your “negative” assesment because it honestly made no sense in actual context. Saying “no viewers, ohnoes the PvP is dead” for 5.5k viewers can and does mean two different things if the total viewer ship were 10k or 100k.
I also expect the developers to change the metagame, but I’m not sure if it will be fixed in the correct way. Just a couple days ago Jon Peters was in a stream’s chat calling spirit rangers highly skillful. To most people, that might seem like a developer cruelly trolling loyal watchers, but he was serious.
I’m hoping he was trolling us all. There is no way that one can make sense of a statement like: One must be skillful to react to passive play. It’s certainly a worrisome statement though, and I think the best thing we can do is all roll Warriors until Spirit Rangers just die off!
So a conditions backbunker and a condition pressure guy equals a condispam meta. Can’t tell if serious.
A 2 Spirit Ranger, Necro, Guard, Thief team comp is condi spam… Other alternatives… drop 1 SR for an Engi… still condi spam…
I don’t know if you noticed, but the team with 3 condi builds got kittening stomped.
Thats because SYNC’s strategy was horrible, and they got counter played hard. This game isnt 100% builds ya know.
Drop 1 of the SR’s who were getting out positioned by the warrior and replace it with an engi and we have a completely different game. Also, if SYNC would have done their triple push instead of far push or lose strategy it would have been far different. CC strives on large team fights where they can use their entire burst and keep the thief up. Split them effectively and it gets easier. Trust me, I played them on their NA alts and when we split them we didnt do too badly.
Condispam meta has nothing to do with anet. Hivemind too slow to figure out the counter is all. 5000 people just watched a warrior walk all over SYNC and the spvp forum is still whining about condis. Good for lols I guess.
If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.
Condispam meta has nothing to do with anet. Hivemind too slow to figure out the counter is all. 5000 people just watched a warrior walk all over SYNC and the spvp forum is still whining about condis. Good for lols I guess.
The warrior walked all over the ranger… because the rangers stood in AOE fire field which took out all spirits (something people have been saying is a counter for a while). 3 matches does not all of a sudden shift meta because 1 team was able to coordinate very well against a HIGHLY overconfident team which played very poorly.
How many times did Caed die 1v1 in fights he continued to think he could win. How many times did Twerp let CC back cap home point without any opposition. How many times did SYNC end up staying in a team fight even though they knew thats now how their comp was best played. Has nothing to do with condis… thats all strategy and thats why they lost.
Condispam meta has nothing to do with anet. Hivemind too slow to figure out the counter is all. 5000 people just watched a warrior walk all over SYNC and the spvp forum is still whining about condis. Good for lols I guess.
The warrior walked all over the ranger… because the rangers stood in AOE fire field which took out all spirits (something people have been saying is a counter for a while). 3 matches does not all of a sudden shift meta because 1 team was able to coordinate very well against a HIGHLY overconfident team which played very poorly.
Good thing the other condi builds destroy warriors right?
If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.
Condispam meta has nothing to do with anet. Hivemind too slow to figure out the counter is all. 5000 people just watched a warrior walk all over SYNC and the spvp forum is still whining about condis. Good for lols I guess.
The warrior walked all over the ranger… because the rangers stood in AOE fire field which took out all spirits (something people have been saying is a counter for a while). 3 matches does not all of a sudden shift meta because 1 team was able to coordinate very well against a HIGHLY overconfident team which played very poorly.
Good thing the other condi builds destroy warriors right?
Force a warrior to pop his Zerk Stance and live and condis will do just fine against them…
Condispam meta has nothing to do with anet. Hivemind too slow to figure out the counter is all. 5000 people just watched a warrior walk all over SYNC and the spvp forum is still whining about condis. Good for lols I guess.
The warrior walked all over the ranger… because the rangers stood in AOE fire field which took out all spirits (something people have been saying is a counter for a while). 3 matches does not all of a sudden shift meta because 1 team was able to coordinate very well against a HIGHLY overconfident team which played very poorly.
Good thing the other condi builds destroy warriors right?
Force a warrior to pop his Zerk Stance and live and condis will do just fine against them…
Except he regens 400-750 a second making him highly resilient against any kind of pressure build and has a range of other options to choose from, from better mobility allowing him to disengage without resetting while that regen ticks through blocks and invulns letting it tick, or spamming more condi removal with cleansing ire and longbow. Or he could just chain stuns on them since condi classes have kitten for stunbreaks and stability. Conversely, he can get over 60 seconds of stability/berserker stance at the start of a fight if he wants to go that way instead. If you’re struggling with condis as a warrior we’re not going to find any middle ground for a conversation I suspect.
If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.
Condispam meta has nothing to do with anet. Hivemind too slow to figure out the counter is all. 5000 people just watched a warrior walk all over SYNC and the spvp forum is still whining about condis. Good for lols I guess.
The warrior walked all over the ranger… because the rangers stood in AOE fire field which took out all spirits (something people have been saying is a counter for a while). 3 matches does not all of a sudden shift meta because 1 team was able to coordinate very well against a HIGHLY overconfident team which played very poorly.
Good thing the other condi builds destroy warriors right?
Force a warrior to pop his Zerk Stance and live and condis will do just fine against them…
Except he regens 400-750 a second making him highly resilient against any kind of pressure build and has a range of other options to choose from, from better mobility allowing him to disengage without resetting while that regen ticks through blocks and invulns letting it tick, or spamming more condi removal with cleansing ire and longbow. Or he could just chain stuns on them since condi classes have kitten for stunbreaks and stability. Conversely, he can get over 60 seconds of stability/berserker stance at the start of a fight if he wants to go that way instead. If you’re struggling with condis as a warrior we’re not going to find any middle ground for a conversation I suspect.
So a class with 8 seconds of condi immunity, overpowered passive heal, and broken stun-chaining that can counter condi classes means condi meta is balanced? Just lol. Hard counters like this are what’s ruining the game. As it is it’s pick a counter or go home. How about fixing the actual meta instead of bandaging it by giving select classes op counters to it? I’m not here to play rock paper scissors.
With the exception of spirit ranger, I think every class is still difficult to master. The problem is it’s way too easy to pick up most of the viable builds and be fairly successful, which nullifies a lot of the genuinely good play that’s done at a high level.
Condispam meta has nothing to do with anet. Hivemind too slow to figure out the counter is all. 5000 people just watched a warrior walk all over SYNC and the spvp forum is still whining about condis. Good for lols I guess.
No s**t sherlock? A warrior with an entire trait tree, gear and utility skills dedicated to countering conditions fare well against conditions?
I was the best at burning things. Especially bosses that
didn’t move.
So a class with 8 seconds of condi immunity, overpowered passive heal, and broken stun-chaining that can counter condi classes means condi meta is balanced? Just lol. Hard counters like this are what’s ruining the game. As it is it’s pick a counter or go home. How about fixing the actual meta instead of bandaging it by giving select classes op counters to it? I’m not here to play rock paper scissors.
OP counters I agree are bad but counters are needed in games in general. Not wanting to play RPS is not wanting to play any type of competitive game.
In regards to the 5k viewers. Keep in mind that the tournament happened in the middle of the night over in Europe you would’ve lost a lot of potential viewers purely because most people would not stay up till 3/4+ AM to watch it even on a weekend.
I had to watch it back this morning myself while I would have preferred to have seen it Live and I went to sleep just after the panel at 1 am (England). It would have been much later elsewhere in Europe before the match even started.
Yep i stayed up 5 AM to watch this lol. Luckely i had a nap before it I remember the complete setup of votf super, except the mainhand he carries with his warhorn. Wich was that? Just curious.
Legendary weapons can be hidden now!
No excuse anymore for not giving ‘hide mounts’-option
No thanks to unidentified weapons.
I think at this point there aren’t any fair weather spvpers left. The people still interested in it have stuck through a year of this kitten, one more problem isn’t going to get them to quit, or at least not for long.
Despite all the problems, it was at least nice to see GW2 in a real tournament setting.
Even those dedicated are leaving. Hell, I officially decided to stop playing with my team (Spoons and Sporks) today as its clear the Devs are out of touch with what the player base wants, and are further hamstrung by clear lack of support in the company to do anything about it anyway.
Jumper left, Acandis quit. Lets see how many people from SYNC stay around. You only have about 4 real NA teams remaining outside of SYNC in RNG, Blacklisted, vVv and AL and trust me, at that level of tPvP matchups it gets real boring real fast playing the same 5 teams all night. Mist League proved to be a failure…
Its not a good time for GW2 PvP at all.
Jumper left, Acandis left, Zoose left, Xeph left, Helseth is leaving after next Mist League. Everyone is abandoning ship
Replacing a condi build with a power build isn’t a metagame shift
So since it seems you people are actually serious, let me ask directly.
One condition guy and one condition backbunker is how you are defining a condi spam metagame? How many conditions classes are ok on a 5man team before you consider condis too strong? 2 is clearly too many, so is 1 ok? Or only if it’s a backbunker? Or is having any condi pressure on teams a condi spam meta?
If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.
I think at this point there aren’t any fair weather spvpers left. The people still interested in it have stuck through a year of this kitten, one more problem isn’t going to get them to quit, or at least not for long.
Despite all the problems, it was at least nice to see GW2 in a real tournament setting.
Even those dedicated are leaving. Hell, I officially decided to stop playing with my team (Spoons and Sporks) today as its clear the Devs are out of touch with what the player base wants, and are further hamstrung by clear lack of support in the company to do anything about it anyway.
Jumper left, Acandis quit. Lets see how many people from SYNC stay around. You only have about 4 real NA teams remaining outside of SYNC in RNG, Blacklisted, vVv and AL and trust me, at that level of tPvP matchups it gets real boring real fast playing the same 5 teams all night. Mist League proved to be a failure…
Its not a good time for GW2 PvP at all.
Jumper left, Acandis left, Zoose left, Xeph left, Helseth is leaving after next Mist League. Everyone is abandoning ship
I left aswell! I know not many people on the forums know me but my team is/was top 5 ML.
Jumper left, Acandis left, Zoose left, Xeph left, Helseth is leaving after next Mist League. Everyone is abandoning ship
oh… my… god.
I honestly didn’t think the game was in THAT bad of a state…
Holy Shi’ite…
Anet… wow devs… you guys…
I get it, you devs care about GW2 and want it to succeed, your passionate and that’s GREAT!! I love that about you. Passion is one of the most important things a dev team could have, without it a game can be left to whither as the devs are playing WoW. Caring about the game is essential, well, next to the ability to actually be an effective dev team… BUT the one great thing a large amount of care and care alone can give, the one gift you guys have been holding back from GW2… is in yourselves. Let the game go.
You think you’re doing everything to help the game… but its still going downhill, you know of GW2’s potential, you know it can be great if tweaked right… which leaves the problem at only one doorstep… there comes a point in time where, to truly help something, if you truly care for it… you let it go, give it away, sell it off to someone else… get a new dev team…
GW2 has a massive amount of potential and has since beta.
Give it a chance to live up to that…
Go away.
Perhaps having a terrible meta for months along with a tournament casted by people who were pretty much making fun of their own game was all a big conspiracy Anet cooked up in order to get rid of us nagging, non-profit pvp folks.
In regards to the 5k viewers. Keep in mind that the tournament happened in the middle of the night over in Europe you would’ve lost a lot of potential viewers purely because most people would not stay up till 3/4+ AM to watch it even on a weekend.
I had to watch it back this morning myself while I would have preferred to have seen it Live and I went to sleep just after the panel at 1 am (England). It would have been much later elsewhere in Europe before the match even started.
If people cared enough they would watch it, for example, i stayed up to 9am just to finish watching TI3.
In regards to the 5k viewers. Keep in mind that the tournament happened in the middle of the night over in Europe you would’ve lost a lot of potential viewers purely because most people would not stay up till 3/4+ AM to watch it even on a weekend.
I had to watch it back this morning myself while I would have preferred to have seen it Live and I went to sleep just after the panel at 1 am (England). It would have been much later elsewhere in Europe before the match even started.
If people cared enough they would watch it, for example, i stayed up to 9am just to finish watching TI3.
^, at the same time LoL had 200k+ viewers so don’t point the hour. Also it was late (early ?) in Europe but prime time in the US so really nothing to do with it.
Replacing a condi build with a power build isn’t a metagame shift
So since it seems you people are actually serious, let me ask directly.
One condition guy and one condition backbunker is how you are defining a condi spam metagame? How many conditions classes are ok on a 5man team before you consider condis too strong? 2 is clearly too many, so is 1 ok? Or only if it’s a backbunker? Or is having any condi pressure on teams a condi spam meta?
I’m not the one calling it a condition metagame. (But when people do call it that, I’m not purposely obtuse; I understand what they mean.)
The current metagame is condition necromancer, sword / dagger thief, spirit ranger, guardian and a final slot that can be whatever a team feels is necessary. Do you see a problem with all of those mandatory classes? They’re all completely uninteresting to watch and way too easy to pick up and do very well with. That’s the biggest problem. The game is simply too unrewarding to skill, which causes many victories and losses to feel cheap.
Jumper left, Acandis left, Zoose left, Xeph left, Helseth is leaving after next Mist League. Everyone is abandoning ship
That’s disastrous. This metagame gutted structured PvP, all because ArenaNet insisted on keeping it around for a tournament that didn’t even get the anticipated publicity.
PAX was our last hope, but everything about it was terrible. There’s too many things wrong with the PvP in this game in balance, production, and promotion.
But ultimately, the game just isn’t fun to play anymore. The game just needs to be redesigned, but the things we’ve been saying have been ignored for far too long. This is what happens, and the meta just gets worse and worse.
Those that are optimistic: we used to be like you. We loved this game, but the devs are honestly just incompetent. I hate watching people fall into the same trap that we fell into (especially since people before me told me the same thing I’m telling you now).
But good luck! Maybe you guys that stick with the game can convince them to redesign it.
Cause I ain’t perfect, I never said I was.
But now they’re hating cause a brotha finally got some buzz
www.twitch.tv/Follidus – Team Absolute Legends
I’m not the one calling it a condition metagame. (But when people do call it that, I’m not purposely obtuse; I understand what they mean.)
The current metagame is condition necromancer, sword / dagger thief, spirit ranger, guardian and a final slot that can be whatever a team feels is necessary. Do you see a problem with all of those mandatory classes? They’re all completely uninteresting to watch and way too easy to pick up and do very well with. That’s the biggest problem. The game is simply too unrewarding to skill, which causes many victories and losses to feel cheap.
I think you might be being purposely obtuse actually. 2 bunkers, a power build, and a condition build does not make a condi spam meta. This forum is so far behind it’s not even worth joking about anymore. Warriors have had the tools they currently have for over 2 months. The very same day necros got buffed, warriors got the new berserker stance.
“My team lost to X, X is so OP, better post about it. Hurpadurp what’s a counter? How is meta formed?’.
If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.
Because it’s pretty obvious condition metagame is shorthand for the current metagame. It shouldn’t be taken literally to think it means people are only using condition classes; it just means that there is way more emphasis on conditions than there used to be. Language is nuanced like that sometimes.
It shouldn’t be taken literally to think it means people are only using condition classes
By ‘only’, you mean ‘actually’ right? Because it’s quite difficult to have less than one condi guy at mid without having zero, and the team that just won the invitational only had one condi guy initially dedicated to mid.
Intro to comp metagaming 101:
Triple condi team rolls mesmer/ele/thief burst teams.
Mesmer/ele/thief burst teams roll double melee teams.
Double melee teams roll triple condis.
The next couple months will have warrior whines spammed all over the place until people finally work out that warriors can magically be countered too. Countered by the same stuff that has always countered them and kept them as a tier 8 class for months, since the whole meta was burst because conditions were too weak to counter those comps.
The only actual problem is that with 5 players on a team which requires a midbunker and backbunker of some kind, changing one guys build or profession has a huge impact. In gw1 where some builds would run 7 at stand, changing one guys build or a midliners profession would give you an edge against some comps or cover a weakness against others without totally defining your team.
If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.
I think it did harm overall. It began with the question at the panel that was left unanswered, the fact the audience barely cheered for either team because they didn’t know them or really care, and the “petting zoo” moments of the match.
It sent an overall message of a great divide between what the players want and what the devs want. It sent a strong message that the pvp simply has no following.
Chances are we’ll get a major balance patch next Tuesday or in two weeks. It will be interesting to see if it can stop the bleeding.
It might stop some bleeding, but will introduce tons of new sources of bleeding. Major balance patches inevitably follow Murphy’s law (of unintended consequences).
I remember the complete setup of votf super, except the mainhand he carries with his warhorn. Wich was that? Just curious.