Did devs know about haste nerf at the SotG?
Shatter nerf is only if the GS buff proves too powerful… That was a suggestion brought by Xeph in response to the GS cleave attack… Jon Sharp said if it proved too powerful then they may “Shave a little bit off of shatter damage.”
Yes, Quickness nerf was created prior to SOTG.
“Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit,
because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.”
because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.”
Shatter nerf is only if the GS buff proves too powerful… That was a suggestion brought by Xeph in response to the GS cleave attack… Jon Sharp said if it proved too powerful then they may “Shave a little bit off of shatter damage.”
Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was the other way around. Aka shatter is too strong, so we’re toning it down, but we’re adding some damage options to make up for it.
If they knew about the haste change why didn’t they say anything about it? Did I miss that part too? Seems like a very important part of the “state of the game” much more so than buffing underused builds like turrets and banners.
That’s why they claim the buff those builds. But honestly before “buffing” any thing they need to fix what they break.
If they knew about the haste change why didn’t they say anything about it? Did I miss that part too? Seems like a very important part of the “state of the game” much more so than buffing underused builds like turrets and banners.
No idea. Maybe they didn’t want to face follow-up questions that would surely arise. Maybe there wasn’t enough time, after all Karl had to spend 20 minutes describing the classes to us, since we obviously have no idea what they do.
“Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit,
because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.”
because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.”
Maybe there wasn’t enough time, after all Karl had to spend 20 minutes describing the classes to us, since we obviously have no idea what they do.
+1… So glad we are a mentally incompetent player base.
I still don’t understand at all the reasoning behind potentially nerfing shatters to compensate for the GS. What if the player isn’t using a greatsword? So he just has to deal with some random nerf?
I believe they were specifically talking about shatter’s damage (aka, Mind Wrack).
See it this way: Mind Wrack is a burst damage skill. GS is a weapon based on damage, but hasn’t been used much in pvp due to not being strong enough. If Mesmers suddenly start using GS, and if GS builds proved to have too much damage, shatters would need to be toned down, especially if GS wasn’t considered to be OP.
“Buit what if the player wants to use another weapon”? Well, each weapon should have a unique role, or else there would be no diversity. If GS ever becomes king for damage builds one day, it would make sense for Staffs or other weapons to be used for different kind of builds/ roles.
The fact that Mind Wrack burst builds use Staff as one of the weaponsets and not the Greatsword, shows that something is still not perfectly balanced, IMO, because the Greatsword is supposed to be more about damage, while Staff more about support (even though it still has excellent damage potential). The fact that even with Staff, mersmers are excellent at bursting, it shows how strong Mind Wrack is. Because Staff isn’t exactly overpowered as it is, I think. So if a stronger GS made mesmer’s burst too high, Mind Wrack would be to blame.
(edited by DiogoSilva.7089)
I still don’t understand at all the reasoning behind potentially nerfing shatters to compensate for the GS. What if the player isn’t using a greatsword? So he just has to deal with some random nerf?
I believe they were specifically talking about shatter’s damage (aka, Mind Wrack).
See it this way: Mind Wrack is a burst damage skill. GS is a weapon based on damage, but hasn’t been used much in pvp due to not being strong enough. If Mesmers suddenly start using GS, and if GS builds proved to have too much damage, shatters would need to be toned down, especially if GS wasn’t considered to be OP.
“Buit what if the player wants to use another weapon”? Well, each weapon should have a unique role, or else there would be no diversity. If GS ever becomes king for damage builds one day, it would make sense for Staffs or other weapons to be used for different kind of builds/ roles.
The fact that Mind Wrack burst builds use Staff as one of the weaponsets and not the Greatsword, shows that something is still not perfectly balanced, IMO, because the Greatsword is supposed to be more about damage, while Staff more about support (even though it still has excellent damage potential). The fact that even with Staff, mersmers are excellent at bursting, it shows how strong Mind Wrack is. Because Staff isn’t exactly overpowered as it is, I think. So if a stronger GS made mesmer’s burst too high, Mind Wrack would be to blame.
But that’s silly reasoning… Staff is used because moar damage does not always = stronger build, even with shatter burst. Staff is popular because the Mes is a slow, squishy class that has to spec hard into damage to get any, and it provides a wealth of defense and mobility options, as well as some underrated AoE buffs. Off-hand shield for Wars provides little additional damage but it’s still very popular because hey, who doesn’t enjoy staying alive a lot longer and mitigating burst.
My problem with nerfing shatters in response to the GS is that shatters affects everyone (even if you’re not traited for shatters) while the GS is optional.
And the GS buff is situational plus the phantasm is still bugged doing little damage or missing its attacks without the target (evading) I love the GS for power builds… but this buff is useless if the phantasm sucks because now we have mirror blade and auto attack… The phantasm is shatter fodder currently…
It’s silly Mesmers don’t need to use their weapon set for damage, instead they have a profession mechanic that hits for 10k.
It’s silly Mesmers don’t need to use their weapon set for damage, instead they have a profession mechanic that hits for 10k.
Why does it matter whether it’s a weapon or a profession mechanic?
It’s silly Mesmers don’t need to use their weapon set for damage, instead they have a profession mechanic that hits for 10k.
Unless you are a GC and have a full set of vulnerability and the mesmer is also a full GC with a kitten ton of might… 10k is elusive… I actually hardly ever even see thieves that hit for 10k with their backstabs and as a full GC in tourney’s I hardly ever hit someone for 10k…. Also the GS phantasm was kinda the only way we could catch people running away (run away)… And the cripple doesn’t matter at all now because it lasts for a half a second (exaggeration) but seriously… GS is useful and most of that came from the phantasm…
It’s silly Mesmers don’t need to use their weapon set for damage, instead they have a profession mechanic that hits for 10k.
Unless you are a GC and have a full set of vulnerability and the mesmer is also a full GC with a kitten ton of might… 10k is elusive… I actually hardly ever even see thieves that hit for 10k with their backstabs and as a full GC in tourney’s I hardly ever hit someone for 10k…. Also the GS phantasm was kinda the only way we could catch people running away (run away)… And the cripple doesn’t matter at all now because it lasts for a half a second (exaggeration) but seriously… GS is useful and most of that came from the phantasm…
Yes 10k is a GC vs GC number, and approximate at that. But it’s closer to 10k than 5k.
The point is, that’s a lot of damage from a profession mechanic. It allows Mesmers to take staff, have tons of extra utility and maintain viable burst. Hopefully now GS will be more tempting, but Shatter will be just as effective.
It’s silly Mesmers don’t need to use their weapon set for damage, instead they have a profession mechanic that hits for 10k.
Unless you are a GC and have a full set of vulnerability and the mesmer is also a full GC with a kitten ton of might… 10k is elusive… I actually hardly ever even see thieves that hit for 10k with their backstabs and as a full GC in tourney’s I hardly ever hit someone for 10k…. Also the GS phantasm was kinda the only way we could catch people running away (run away)… And the cripple doesn’t matter at all now because it lasts for a half a second (exaggeration) but seriously… GS is useful and most of that came from the phantasm…
Yes 10k is a GC vs GC number, and approximate at that. But it’s closer to 10k than 5k.
The point is, that’s a lot of damage from a profession mechanic. It allows Mesmers to take staff, have tons of extra utility and maintain viable burst. Hopefully now GS will be more tempting, but Shatter will be just as effective.
GS is still only going to be used by the people that used it before… And not used by people that used it for the phantasm because the phantasm is a waste for its tooltip currently. GS is not going to be used by people that were using staff in shatter builds because it still does not give the defensive utility that a staff does and trying to justify a massive nerf by a situational buff that is a weak buff at best and will not even be noticed in most cases is kinda ridiculous… I agree though the haste nerf was kind of a shocker… but not completely unexpected… The next change/nerf I want to see to mesmer if they won’t fix our bugs is to move portal to elite.
Bottom line = warriors got shafted hard.
Mesmers = still laugh at most classes.
It’s silly Mesmers don’t need to use their weapon set for damage, instead they have a profession mechanic that hits for 10k.
Unless you are a GC and have a full set of vulnerability and the mesmer is also a full GC with a kitten ton of might… 10k is elusive… I actually hardly ever even see thieves that hit for 10k with their backstabs and as a full GC in tourney’s I hardly ever hit someone for 10k…. Also the GS phantasm was kinda the only way we could catch people running away (run away)… And the cripple doesn’t matter at all now because it lasts for a half a second (exaggeration) but seriously… GS is useful and most of that came from the phantasm…
Yes 10k is a GC vs GC number, and approximate at that. But it’s closer to 10k than 5k.
The point is, that’s a lot of damage from a profession mechanic. It allows Mesmers to take staff, have tons of extra utility and maintain viable burst. Hopefully now GS will be more tempting, but Shatter will be just as effective.
I don’t get why you’re so fixed on the “profession mechanic” thing. Steal does pretty beastly damage once traited last I recall (plus it’s weapon-ambiguous), as does Eviscerate (Warrior’s axe mechanic).
10k is not really an approximate number at all… the guy you’re responding to was right, you’d be lucky to hit that even with might stacks and a debuffed opponent. Right off the bat, you won’t break ~5k without IP, so that’s 30 deep into Illusions. ~8k is about where you’ll reach if you’re a typical glass v. glass and you get the full four off. Even then you’re looking at a decent crit string.
Here a Team Paradigm player gets hit for 11k:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=o9_UR1dCoT8#t=70s
Granted this is vs a GC thief. But I was talking about GC vs GC.
No might stacks, no vuln. It’s a 1v1. Don’t tell me you don’t break 5k if you spec wrong, it’s obviously a shattered oriented build.
A bunker would take less, but shatter also removes boons which tends to hurt them more.
Here a Team Paradigm player gets hit for 11k:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=o9_UR1dCoT8#t=70s
Granted this is vs a GC thief. But I was talking about GC vs GC.
No might stacks, no vuln. It’s a 1v1. Don’t tell me you don’t break 5k if you spec wrong, it’s obviously a shattered oriented build.
A bunker would take less, but shatter also removes boons which tends to hurt them more.
Did you even watch that? Jumper had vulnerability on him (looked like 9-10) and the mesmer had might… SO once again I am right in that this is a very situational thing and if you spec wrong.. No you don’t break 5k if you are not shatter spec your shatters suck damage wise… And clearly the mesmer had the remove boon but that is because why wouldn’t you take that… So yeah once again… You need to watch what you post
I’m talking about extra might/vuln from another source. Any might/vuln you apply is part of your damage, obviously.
I’m talking about extra might/vuln from another source. Any might/vuln you apply is part of your damage, obviously.
“No might stacks, no vuln. It’s a 1v1”
That is something you just said and then you are saying “OH I meant from other sources!” Make your mind up Mr. Romney. In 1v1’s of course its all going to come from you… The might stacks were still fairly high on the mesmer from his shatters… Jeez
I’m talking about extra might/vuln from another source. Any might/vuln you apply is part of your damage, obviously.
“No might stacks, no vuln. It’s a 1v1”That is something you just said and then you are saying “OH I meant from other sources!” Make your mind up Mr. Romney. In 1v1’s of course its all going to come from you… The might stacks were still fairly high on the mesmer from his shatters… Jeez
The point is nothing padding the damage. Add the word “extra” after “no” and it makes perfect sense, which is why I clarified. Even in my original post I say “it’s a 1v1”
Do you honestly think that self buffed might stacks or self inflicted vuln stacks make a burst rotation niche? That’s the bread and butter of how it works. It’s not “very situational” as you say, but good playing.
I’m talking about extra might/vuln from another source. Any might/vuln you apply is part of your damage, obviously.
“No might stacks, no vuln. It’s a 1v1”That is something you just said and then you are saying “OH I meant from other sources!” Make your mind up Mr. Romney. In 1v1’s of course its all going to come from you… The might stacks were still fairly high on the mesmer from his shatters… Jeez
The point is nothing padding the damage. Add the word “extra” after “no” and it makes perfect sense, which is why I clarified. Even in my original post I say “it’s a 1v1”
Do you honestly think that self buffed might stacks or self inflicted vuln stacks make a burst rotation niche? That’s the bread and butter of how it works. It’s not “very situational” as you say, but good playing.
It also depends on just how glassy each person is… GC vs. GC is always going to end fast no matter what… I never kitten when I take a full bas venom backstab if I am in full GC… Why because i had no innate defense… So if you don’t want to eat a full burst then stack some kittening toughness and stop kittening.. If you don’t want to stack toughness then accept that you will die ridiculously fast if you play like a baddy.
It also depends on just how glassy each person is… GC vs. GC is always going to end fast no matter what… I never kitten when I take a full bas venom backstab if I am in full GC… Why because i had no innate defense… So if you don’t want to eat a full burst then stack some kittening toughness and stop kittening.. If you don’t want to stack toughness then accept that you will die ridiculously fast if you play like a baddy.
Yes of course I also mentioned that in my post. The point which you missed again is that is the top of the range of what it can do short of actually situational circumstances (25 might, 25 vuln, frenzy, etc).
Your ORIGINAL post “It’s silly Mesmers don’t need to use their weapon set for damage, instead they have a profession mechanic that hits for 10k.” Warrior kill shot 10K. Ranger pets can do some pretty gnar damage. Thief Mug/CnD/BS combo which is based off a class mechanic still hits for well above this… Engi kits can do some gnarly damage as well (profession mechanic to switch kits and such) So once again what the kitten is your point? And mesmer just basic will never touch 10K and it requires a certain skill rotation. And also our burst still depends on us using blurred frenzy to get a good burst. God people are stupid.
Kill shot? Wow. Going to skip this for now, but wow. But if there was a weapon set you could turtle in (non even exist that compare to staff) AND make adrenaline AND fire kill shot them maybe it would be the same.
Pets can do good damage but that’s the entire mechanic. The pets with good damage have less health and CC. Mesmers still have 3 other shatters. But there are some redic things you can do with pets, doesn’t change the topic.
Thief Mug/CnD/BS. You are mentioning TWO weapons. It would be like if you could get a full Mug/CnD/BS combo worth of damage while using shortbow and are blinking and evading around because Mug did all the work. And Mug is getting looked at.
Engi kits got nerfed this patch. And toolbelt skills are kinda like their second weapon set.
The only thing I agree with is your last sentence, but probably not in the same way you do.
Kill shot? Wow. Going to skip this for now, but wow. But if there was a weapon set you could turtle in (non even exist that compare to staff) AND make adrenaline AND fire kill shot them maybe it would be the same.
Pets can do good damage but that’s the entire mechanic. The pets with good damage have less health and CC. Mesmers still have 3 other shatters. But there are some redic things you can do with pets, doesn’t change the topic.
Thief Mug/CnD/BS. You are mentioning TWO weapons. It would be like if you could get a full Mug/CnD/BS combo worth of damage while using shortbow and are blinking and evading around because Mug did all the work. And Mug is getting looked at.
Engi kits got nerfed this patch. And toolbelt skills are kinda like their second weapon set.
The only thing I agree with is your last sentence, but probably not in the same way you do.
And you completely ignored me pointing out your statement that mesmers dont need weapons to pull off their combo… If you don’t do it with blurred frenzy your combo sucks no matter how much might you have or your target has… I am calling you on your original post.
The video example doesn’t use blurred frenzy.
But that’s silly reasoning… Staff is used because moar damage does not always = stronger build, even with shatter burst.
I’m not saying which build is better. I’m just saying that Mesmers are currently using burst builds without even using what is supposed to be one of their best damage-oriented weapons. Why? How? Because Mind Wrack is that strong.
Someday, GS should be as viable as Staff, and unless they add more utility into it, chances are, its the damage that will get buffed. And then, because Mesmer’s damage is already strong enough noawadays without the GS, their damage might become OP after a buffed GS. If that ever happens, what do you think it’s the best to do, nerf back GS and make it forever underpowered in pvp, or nerf Mind Wrack but keep GS as a (newly) viable option?
Yes, if Mind Wrack ever gets nerfed someday, Sword+Staff bursts might be substituted with Sword+GS bursts. But that’s only natural, because the Staff is about support and control. Its meant for builds with support and control, and even in burst builds, it’s meant to take away some of the damage to gain more utility.
If Mind Wrack ever gets nerfed, that will only become a real problem to the glass cannon builds that greatly rely on it for a quick, deadly burst to survive. And those builds would have a buffed GS to compensate.
This, of course, are only possibilities. A strong GS + Mind Wrack might not even end up being overpowered at all, who knows.
(edited by DiogoSilva.7089)
The GS “Buff” is just situational if that… It is still one of the weakest auto attacks ever applies no conditions and gets weaker the closer you are. And once again the only source of good damage from that weapon is the phantasm which is bugged out and barely working right now… The mind stab on GS is just terrible and either needs a bigger AOE or taken out of the game completely and given something else. So even if Mindwrack gets nerfed the only people that use it now are the ones that used it before…