Guild Wars 2

Anet put a lot of money (salary wise) into making stronghold for us, and we didn’t like it. (I mean, it aight.) Are they going to try new fun things now that the community showed they don’t like it?

Also both new WvW maps (EotM and borderland) show the community doesn’t like the new things anet does, although in that case it’s because anet blatantly ignored what the WvW community wanted. So…

Fluffball.8307:

Anet put a lot of money (salary wise) into making stronghold for us, and we didn’t like it. (I mean, it aight.) Are they going to try new fun things now that the community showed they don’t like it?

Also both new WvW maps (EotM and borderland) show the community doesn’t like the new things anet does, although in that case it’s because anet blatantly ignored what the WvW community wanted. So…

Well they really never released Stronghold as a “game mode” it basically is just a map.
If you want to release a new game mode then at least make 4-5 maps to go with it and then we could have an idea of how it plays.

Maybe if they put a tiny bit of thought into what PvP means, they wouldn’t have added PvE. It’s kind of one reason I don’t like Legacy. It has PvE… Same thing with Forest. Temple is great because it has other objectives that don’t involve any PvE at all.

But unlikely Legacy and Forest, the objective is to kill the Lord. In Conquest maps, they are secondary objectives, not primary.

Another reason I think we don’t like Stronghold is because balance is so wonky and they keep kittening around with amulets, but instead of putting their resources into that, they make a PvE PvP map. Making another PvP map would be a waste too, but not as much… At least it’s PvP.

Zintrothen.1056:

Maybe if they put a tiny bit of thought into what PvP means, they wouldn’t have added PvE. It’s kind of one reason I don’t like Legacy. It has PvE… Same thing with Forest. Temple is great because it has other objectives that don’t involve any PvE at all.

But unlikely Legacy and Forest, the objective is to kill the Lord. In Conquest maps, they are secondary objectives, not primary.

Another reason I think we don’t like Stronghold is because balance is so wonky and they keep kittening around with amulets, but instead of putting their resources into that, they make a PvE PvP map. Making another PvP map would be a waste too, but not as much… At least it’s PvP.

Guild Lords were in a thing in Gw1.
Both WoW, Rift, Aion LotRO and several others I’m sure but cant get off the top of my head have PvE aspects in PvP. The wildly successful MOBA genre (Which Stronghold is trying to be.) incorporates PvE in PvP and in not one of these games is that an issue.

The issue is that this is MMO PvP, and aside Stronghold we only have one game mode, Conquest.

Perhaps if they actually made a good moba like mode then we might like it. SH is really poorly designed. Anet clearly have really bad internal feedback mechanisms that just do not provide meaningful feedback on developments. SH and the Desert BL for WvW are prime examples.

They could have used the funding to actually make different modes that players wanted like CTF or proper deathmatch.

morrolan.9608:

Anet clearly have really bad internal feedback mechanisms that just do not provide meaningful feedback on developments. SH and the Desert BL for WvW are prime examples.

It makes me feel really bad, honestly. Like all these talented people spend thousands of hours working on beautiful projects the players don’t want and we told them we don’t. SH is less of a good example, but the desert BL, ugh, it kills me. So beautiful and so exactly what we didn’t want.

I liked SH.

The only problem I had with it was that if a team had just one or 2 eles healing their npcs it was nearly impossible to stop them.

Fluffball.8307:

Anet put a lot of money (salary wise) into making stronghold for us, and we didn’t like it. (I mean, it aight.) Are they going to try new fun things now that the community showed they don’t like it?

The issue with Stronghold is dying doesn’t mean as much; dying in conquest is a big deal.

They first tried to sell Stronghold as a GvG mode, but it turned out to be just another 5v5 “pvp” map plagued with PvE elements. Escort npc’s, trebs, guards, knocking down gates, running supplies, lord, etc.. are all PvE elements. Even the mist was about summoning a g’kitten npc.

It also came out at a time when players were abusing invincible builds that could keep the lord & bomber npc’s perma healed. Pre-made teams & even pro level players abused these things for fast ranks during the season, average joe’s all said “eff it” and pretty much unchecked the Stronghold box permanently since then.

Yeah Anet spent dev time, money, and resources building it. Just as they spent time, money, and resources building whole new Desert Borderlands for WvW as well. Problem for both Stronghold & Desert BL’s were that they were too PvE focused. There were way too many PvE elements in these maps where they were supposed to be built for player vs player combat. There were cheese & annoying features in them that really bugged players. Bottom line is these things represent how out of touch Anet is with their PvP-minded playerbase.

The PvP gamemode really could use a 3v3 DM map and a proper CTF map. I know there’s a ctf map already but you don’t put ctf + conquest in the same map for 5v5. It’d work better if you make it 10v10 if you want to combine gamemodes like that.

I thought the new Revenge of the Capricorn map was well made though, it was a step in the right direction. Yes it’s conquest still, but at least all elements in that map is truly players vs players based. Finally a real pvp map without npc’s and siege. One of my disappointments this pvp season is that Capricorn didn’t make it to ranked gameplay, so I’m not sure how much I’ll play this season because I’m seriously truly tired of these same ‘ol conquest maps. I’d play all season long if Capricorn gets enabled for ranked.

tbh pvp needs new game modes, but stronghold is not really a good one in my opinion, it is like pvp and pve mixed together and the map is waaaay too big for it as well, games take forever on it… However It was at least worth a try, personally I’d love to see stuff like capture the flag instead

I prefer Stronghold to any conquest map. After 4 years, conquest can rot…

I also like stronghold. In fact I only play stronghold for ranked games during the pvp seasons. I don’t think conquest is bad, but I like mobility so I get tired of fighting in tiny circles. I do agree with Xillllix that we need more than one stronghold map.

Zintrothen.1056:

Maybe if they put a tiny bit of thought into what PvP means, they wouldn’t have added PvE. It’s kind of one reason I don’t like Legacy. It has PvE… Same thing with Forest. Temple is great because it has other objectives that don’t involve any PvE at all.

Maybe if you put a tiny a bit of thought into things you wouldn’t make nonsensical statements like the above, hint – there is no PvE in any of the PvP maps.

zinkz.7045:

Zintrothen.1056:

Maybe if they put a tiny bit of thought into what PvP means, they wouldn’t have added PvE. It’s kind of one reason I don’t like Legacy. It has PvE… Same thing with Forest. Temple is great because it has other objectives that don’t involve any PvE at all.

Maybe if you put a tiny a bit of thought into things you wouldn’t make nonsensical statements like the above, hint – there is no PvE in any of the PvP maps.

of course there is, you are fighting NPCs instead of PCs, that’s called pve

They didn’t do much about feedback and the problem with healing NPCS.
The problem is not, that it is a bad Map.

but….
As I used to play PVP, I stopped playing stronghold; Because you could heal the NPC so that they were almost unkillable.
1 month ago, after beeing reported for 7 months, the problem was the same.
So why would someone even bother playing it.

I don’t know how it is now, but it showed, that it was not their priority. So why should we play it?

They know how to half delivery content

League of legends has done ok with"PVE" elements. The dev team has done a good job of delivering what was asked for. Unfortunately, the vocal portion of the community doesn’t have a lot of foresight so they don’t end up liking what they asked for. The other problem is they think balance = I can run whatever build I want and it will beat everyone else.

Fluffball.8307:

and we didn’t like it.

Here we go again. Who is this ‘we’?

Enjoy Stronghold quite a bit and it keeps conquest from getting stale. And if the numbers weren’t there for it, they wouldn’t have created a separate queue for it since it wouldn’t have enough people to trigger a match.

If you have suggestions for the game, make them, but don’t decry other game modes people are enjoying. So far from your opening post we are left with things you don’t like and you suggested nothing to counter it with. You have only yourself to blame if ANet is creating content you don’t like since you haven’t stated what you do like.

Did we kill PvP by not liking stronghold?

Nah, anet killed it with the extremely bad matchmaking in S2 and S3.

fluidmonolith.3584:

I also like stronghold. In fact I only play stronghold for ranked games during the pvp seasons. I don’t think conquest is bad, but I like mobility so I get tired of fighting in tiny circles. I do agree with Xillllix that we need more than one stronghold map.

Looking forward to more Stronghold maps.

Also wouldn’t mind seeing a purely capture the flag style game. Main scoring mechanism would be running the flag from base to base and a secondary point mechanism from killing. Flag bearers would have limited skills and would need protection from their team. Honestly one of the better PvP style capture the flags is the Halo style and I think something similar would translate to GW2 as we have seen in things like Spirit Watch. Instead of one flag though have two, one for each side.

Madman.6912:

zinkz.7045:

Zintrothen.1056:

Maybe if they put a tiny bit of thought into what PvP means, they wouldn’t have added PvE. It’s kind of one reason I don’t like Legacy. It has PvE… Same thing with Forest. Temple is great because it has other objectives that don’t involve any PvE at all.

Maybe if you put a tiny a bit of thought into things you wouldn’t make nonsensical statements like the above, hint – there is no PvE in any of the PvP maps.

of course there is, you are fighting NPCs instead of PCs, that’s called pve

Erm, no, if you think when you are killing lord it is about “fighting” the lord, rather than competing against the other team (them trying to stop you) then well…

The ‘v’ in PvP stands for versus, which means competing against not specifically ‘fighting’, none of the “PvE” in the conquest maps is about beating the “PvE” it is about completing an objective whilst the other team try and stop you, that is PvP.

This is your reasoning?

1. Devs create content that’s of extremely poor quality.
2. Players are justifiably unhappy with the content.
3. Blame players.

Community: “We want a 1v1/2v2/3v3 game mode”

“We didn’t want to segregate players by incorporating another game mode.”
“We like to introduce the new gamemode Stronghold!”

Community: “….”

We asked for a TDM game mode and Anet delivered but they didn’t fix underlined issues with the new mode. That TDM map was asked for only once, when 1v1, 2v2 & 3v3 modes were asked numerous times over.

As someone else pointed, Stronghold was supposed to be GW1 style GvG, and it was announced that way. It turned out to be something else entirely.

Seyiwaji.4082:

They didn’t do much about feedback and the problem with healing NPCS.
The problem is not, that it is a bad Map.

but….
As I used to play PVP, I stopped playing stronghold; Because you could heal the NPC so that they were almost unkillable.
1 month ago, after beeing reported for 7 months, the problem was the same.
So why would someone even bother playing it.

I don’t know how it is now, but it showed, that it was not their priority. So why should we play it?

They know how to half delivery content

What do you mean “reported”??? The NPC’s are our allies, of course we can heal and buff allies. The PvP comes in the form of you having to kill me to stop me from healing them.

I like the thread.

Maybe. I was wondering the same thing. I keep trying stronghold here and again but it’s always the same thing. Minion masters abusing the AoE target cap and swarming like locusts. Yeah, no thank you.

It should be a 20 player game mode. 2 teams on 5 on each side. That would be interesting.

The new PvP map is the best conquest map they ever made, yet not Ranked

Well why they added those annoying npc:ees? Do they really think that gw2 players are 14 years old energy drink overusers who like moba kitten?