Guild Wars 2

A MMO community should be considered as a small example of the society, I bet most of you got experience of situation where few individuals where able to change the general consesus of the masses for their own personal gains.
What happen on a MMO forum is not much different, when dealing with balance few people propose ideas and suggestions which would benefit nobody more than themselves, these people stir the crowd by using the momentum, a previous lost fight a lost tournament maybe, anything that can be used to change your mind for the worst.

Balance changes are necessary to maintain a fun environment for everybody and we’re all agree on that!But these few individuals care not for this principle and only to push their own agenda, how to recongize them?..it’s easy

Try to give them a counter proposal and see if you an answer.
E.G:
- Player A = AoE attacks in this game are too strong!
- Player B = Ok I understand..shall we give more single target options and less aoes?
- Player A =…..Aoe attacks in this game are too strong!
- Player B = so..what about my suggestion?
- Player A =…..AoE professions in this game are OP!
- Player B =…….

See what I did here? If you try to give a reasonable change, an alternative, you receive no answer because these few indiduals do not care of having a healthy game where everybody can choose their own way of having fun, they only care on their own way of having fun and anything which hinders it…must be removed, and to do that they’ll “appeal” to you, who maybe got killed by an aoe and while you had no extreme thoughts of removing aoe from the game since that moment, they will manipulate you toward such extreme way of thinking in the end.

Beware of such individuals, next time you join a discussionn about balance , post a simple question for the original poster: “Ok we can remove this but add this other thing in return, what aobut it?”…see if you get answer back…

For further reference I link this thread ( which of course has been ignored )
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Players-concerned-with-balance/first#post1465137

I see what you are doing here… And… I like it.

The reason aoe is too strong is that it does the same, or sometimes even more damage than single target.

If both hits do 5000 damage, but one is aoe, its objectively superior. (all other things equal like cast time , cooldown etc).

Right now Aoe is too strong. Its not about merely providing more single target options its that SINGLE TARGET ABILITIES SHOULD HIT HARDER THAN AOES.

Variety =/ balance. A class can be balanced with only 1 viable spec.
Another class can have 8 ways to be played , all subpar.

More options isnt relevant unless they are viable options.
But a good example of the kind of thing you are talking about is people who want thief burst toned down. If theif burst got toned down, without any compensation to the class, they would become useless in high end play.

These two (jportell and Arheundel) are just forum trolls defending their classes in their current obscene state even if it means destruction of the game itself.

I would not pay attention to them.

daydream.2938:

The reason aoe is too strong is that it does the same, or sometimes even more damage than single target.

If both hits do 5000 damage, but one is aoe, its objectively superior. (all other things equal like cast time , cooldown etc).

Right now Aoe is too strong. Its not about merely providing more single target options its that SINGLE TARGET ABILITIES SHOULD HIT HARDER THAN AOES.

Variety =/ balance. A class can be balanced with only 1 viable spec.
Another class can have 8 ways to be played , all subpar.

More options isnt relevant unless they are viable options.
But a good example of the kind of thing you are talking about is people who want thief burst toned down. If theif burst got toned down, without any compensation to the class, they would become useless in high end play.

The same is said for people that want AOE damage nerfed. Most classes that are on the chopping block for AOE nerf have no viable single target options. And their is no compensation being suggested to go along with these nerfs to these peoples AOE damage. Look at Engi 100nades… Their only real burst if from the 100nades build. It just so happens to be AOE as well… Mesmers we are classified as a dueling class but our best reliable damage is AOE. Our single target damage is a joke when compared to a warrior or a thief or even a rapid fire ranger…. Our shatters are targeted on one single target but they just so happen to do AOE damage. Now lets say they change it to where our shatters only do single target we then have only TWO AOE attacks. Ele’s… Nearly every single weapon/attack on ele’s is some form of AOE so nerfing AOE would destroy the entire ele class and leave engi’s with no decent damage build and they aren’t good at tanking at all.

Mufa.1326:

These two (jportell and Arheundel) are just forum trolls defending their classes in their current obscene state even if it means destruction of the game itself.

I would not pay attention to them.

he has a point, you’re the one being the troll right now.

They play 2 classes having only 1 really viable build ( altough dps ele can be viable, with the right comp).

the “NERF NERF NERF THE KITTEN” ideology already hit the thief ( OH dagger nerfed to dust in the attempt to reduce the burst while it only killed any balanced build attempt, aka smiter booned, leeching venom nerfed into dust with “venom charge lost on miss”, tactical strike smiter booned ) and everybody can see where are we now: burst, and nothing else.

Indeed shatter mesmer ( when paired with portal, time warp and illusion of life, but it’s more about those u-skill than the proff itself) is OP, indeed THAT ele build is OP.

But if you nerf them like you did with the thief, you force people EVEN MORE into going with that build while also reducing its efficacy.

You ruin a profession, you pigeon hole it.

I don’t want another nerf hammer like they did with my S/D thief.

Mrbig.8019:

Mufa.1326:

These two (jportell and Arheundel) are just forum trolls defending their classes in their current obscene state even if it means destruction of the game itself.

I would not pay attention to them.

he has a point, you’re the one being the troll right now.

They play 2 classes having only 1 really viable build ( altough dps ele can be viable, with the right comp).

the “NERF NERF NERF THE KITTEN” ideology already hit the thief ( OH dagger nerfed to dust in the attempt to reduce the burst while it only killed any balanced build attempt, aka smiter booned, leeching venom nerfed into dust with “venom charge lost on miss”, tactical strike smiter booned ) and everybody can see where are we now: burst, and nothing else.

Indeed shatter mesmer ( when paired with portal, time warp and illusion of life, but it’s more about those u-skill than the proff itself) is OP, indeed THAT ele build is OP.

But if you nerf them like you did with the thief, you force people EVEN MORE into going with that build while also reducing its efficacy.

You ruin a profession, you pigeon hole it.

I don’t want another nerf hammer like they did with my S/D thief.

S/D thief needs a fix… The evade on that 3 build is kinda a joke… Rangers have better mobility with a sword dagger build. Mesmers have somewhat viable builds elsewhere… if our shatters get nerfed we will turn into an full on bunker build. Or a 30/30/0/0/10 Mantra build which has way more damage potential than shatters and you will ALLL be whining… But still none are as demanding or fun to play kittenters…

Ele does have too much healing ability provided by the combination of 30 Water and 30 Arcana traits.

This can be balanced without affecting the weapon set viabilities and the different builds Ele can play as.

More options are clearly required as most competitive Ele builds right now whether DD, SD or Staff using a variety of different Amulets are all using 30 Water, 30 Arcana.

So is it safe to say that instead of ruining the only viable ele trait trees we should get the other trait trees on par and make them appealing… Then maybe look at toning those currently (OP) trait trees down?

Exactly, when most builds are running 60 points in the same place, from DPS Amulets to Tanky Amulets and DD / SD / Staff variants of each – there is something seriously wrong with the traiting options.
+ 30 Water and Arcana is a very strong setup for any build, providing a huge amount of sustain for an otherwise DPS spec build, or crazy sustain on a bunker build.

It’s a similar case with Guardians, most points are invested in Honour and Valour or Virtues. Definitely 30 in either Honour or Valour with any build.

Most builds whether DPS, Support or Bunker will have their 70 points spread between just those 3 trees with very little variation between them.

Zeal is practically never used, Radiance only makes sense for 1H builds, or a max of 10 points with something else.

jportell, just more clueless drivel from you:
If one or two classes are out of balance you fix them. You do not change 6 other classes (it is much much much more work to do plus introduces new balancing issues).

Nerfing, buffing it does not matter, it is just two directions of job called balancing.

But anyway, ANET is going to do what they are going to do, I do not have much faith in them and I am not gonna waste time on forums.

Mufa.1326:

jportell, just more clueless drivel from you:
If one or two classes are out of balance you fix them. You do not change 6 other classes (it is much much much more work to do plus introduces new balancing issues).

Nerfing, buffing it does not matter, it is just two directions of job called balancing.

But anyway, ANET is going to do what they are going to do, I do not have much faith in them and I am not gonna waste time on forums.

one or two classes out of balance… well here is one… lets say… thief? 14k backstab? Give me one class that can do that with the press of one button… Mesmers? Nope our burst requires more set up than that and better timing on our combo to max how much vuln we can stack to get the max effect from our mindwrack. And even then it still won’t hit for 14k. 100B warrior? yah but you can see it coming from a mile away and unless you are perma stunned you may only get one or two hits from it… You are out to make sure one class stays on top in damage and that is thief. Don’t come to me with more clueless “drivel” quotes. Ele is broken. But not broken in favor of versatility among ele’s. They are stuck in one build to have any advantage… Sure thieves may be the same but their build is more powerful base wise… And you are requesting to make this build even more POWERFUL by pushing for a nerf to the only known hard counter to stealth AOE…. Please don’t bring me a childish personal attack when I present reasons why your logic is very faulty.

Mufa.1326:

These two (jportell and Arheundel) are just forum trolls defending their classes in their current obscene state even if it means destruction of the game itself.

I would not pay attention to them.

Ele’s are op because of that bunker-ish spec, not because of their damage or mobility (those are just the icing on top, address the root of the issue, don’t destroy everything).

But people like you want to DESTROY the balance of the game by nerfing every single aspect of a class. From mobility to survivability (that build IS getting nerfs I’m sure) and now damage.

Don’t quit your day job, you are not good at all when it comes to proposing balance changes.

And the fact that you main a thief makes this whole argument completely and absolutely hilarious in more ways than you can imagine. From what I read you’re a good thief but your constant QQ obviously says otherwise

jportell.2197:

So is it safe to say that instead of ruining the only viable ele trait trees we should get the other trait trees on par and make them appealing… Then maybe look at toning those currently (OP) trait trees down?

Yes. More viable builds pl0x. Fire Trait Tree is HORRIBLE. All I see there is burn here burn there. -_-

Gallrvaghn.4921:

jportell.2197:

So is it safe to say that instead of ruining the only viable ele trait trees we should get the other trait trees on par and make them appealing… Then maybe look at toning those currently (OP) trait trees down?

Yes. More viable builds pl0x. Fire Trait Tree is HORRIBLE. All I see there is burn here burn there. -_-

After which would ele’s be okay if the healing and boon stacking got somewhat toned down? I have fought a bunker ele as a bunker mesmer build and it was an even match… Put a bunker ele against a bunker guardian and see if its an even match… If one bunker class cannot beat but does not lose to another bunker class then it is viable… IMO and not OP

jportell.2197:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

jportell.2197:

So is it safe to say that instead of ruining the only viable ele trait trees we should get the other trait trees on par and make them appealing… Then maybe look at toning those currently (OP) trait trees down?

Yes. More viable builds pl0x. Fire Trait Tree is HORRIBLE. All I see there is burn here burn there. -_-

After which would ele’s be okay if the healing and boon stacking got somewhat toned down? I have fought a bunker ele as a bunker mesmer build and it was an even match… Put a bunker ele against a bunker guardian and see if its an even match… If one bunker class cannot beat but does not lose to another bunker class then it is viable… IMO and not OP

I agree but people are not really mad that ele’s can bunker..
They are mad they can run away.

Solori.6025:

jportell.2197:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

jportell.2197:

So is it safe to say that instead of ruining the only viable ele trait trees we should get the other trait trees on par and make them appealing… Then maybe look at toning those currently (OP) trait trees down?

Yes. More viable builds pl0x. Fire Trait Tree is HORRIBLE. All I see there is burn here burn there. -_-

After which would ele’s be okay if the healing and boon stacking got somewhat toned down? I have fought a bunker ele as a bunker mesmer build and it was an even match… Put a bunker ele against a bunker guardian and see if its an even match… If one bunker class cannot beat but does not lose to another bunker class then it is viable… IMO and not OP

I agree but people are not really mad that ele’s can bunker..
They are mad they can run away.

Yeah, QQ usually derails like that. Reminds me of some popular MOBA these days…

Like, when X is too good in the laning phase but the QQers end up focusing their attention on X’s teamfight capabilities (when that trait has always been X’s forte). Some people just want to nerf everything.

IKR… The nerf Mesmer threads still haven’t stopped and run rampant still. Meanwhile any nerf thief thread (there are several!) just gets moved to the thief and its gameplay thread where it is lost and ignored.