Guild Wars 2

I had several friends who were so excited and wanted to return to the game when they heard that a GvG inspired PVP mode is coming. Their reaction after finding out that it’s a 5v5? Hell no.

So much could have been done with this game mode. The scale, bigger. Not WvW big, obviously, but enough to cater to 10 players (and DESIGNED for 10 players. none of that ‘well you technically can, in custom games.’)

Zerging with pixel bombs an issue? Punish players for zerging. Do you see 5 players always in a single lane in MOBA’s?

People’s complaints since the BETA of the game was that the game’s called Guild Wars get there hardly is any activities to do with the guild itself. Guild hall? Oh good. Now you can enjoy that comradery by afk sitting in a room together.

This was a huge disappointment and certainly a turn off for many people who were ready to drop cash on the expansion.

I’ll just leave this here:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_vs_guild

My guild fights other guilds in sPvP. Why can’t yours? Best part is, if my guild isn’t online I can still participate by myself! I enjoy GvG even if it is conquest or GvPug.

lordkrall.7241:

I’ll just leave this here:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_vs_guild

^couldn’t agree more.

Hi, I’m Fossil Fuels aka Mice And Gods

part 1 -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9TKSfSGt7k
part 2 -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTf2luTVUIk

Eurantien.4632:

My guild fights other guilds in sPvP. Why can’t yours? Best part is, if my guild isn’t online I can still participate by myself! I enjoy GvG even if it is conquest or GvPug.

These must be organized outside of the current pvp system, much like dueling. With absolutely no reward (unless you’re going to tell me that you place bets and that counts as ‘rewards’) and no infrastructure for it in game, that’s hardly a GvG but rather an awkward, self-organized pvp event.

To me, that sort of an argument is as weak as saying ‘why bother adding more story to the game, you can roleplay and make your own story as you go.’

Zaron.3270:

lordkrall.7241:

I’ll just leave this here:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_vs_guild

^couldn’t agree more.
Hi, I’m Fossil Fuels aka Mice And Gods
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2onFUSfJCg
part 1 -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9TKSfSGt7k
part 2 -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTf2luTVUIk

Are you seriously hijacking threads to advertise your videos? wow.

Jae.5138:

Eurantien.4632:

My guild fights other guilds in sPvP. Why can’t yours? Best part is, if my guild isn’t online I can still participate by myself! I enjoy GvG even if it is conquest or GvPug.

These must be organized outside of the current pvp system, much like dueling. With absolutely no reward (unless you’re going to tell me that you place bets and that counts as ‘rewards’) and no infrastructure for it in game, that’s hardly a GvG but rather an awkward, self-organized pvp event.

To me, that sort of an argument is as weak as saying ‘why bother adding more story to the game, you can roleplay and make your own story as you go.’

Nah dude, I just hit that ranked queue button.

Jae.5138:

Zaron.3270:

lordkrall.7241:

I’ll just leave this here:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_vs_guild

^couldn’t agree more.
Hi, I’m Fossil Fuels aka Mice And Gods
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2onFUSfJCg
part 1 -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9TKSfSGt7k
part 2 -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTf2luTVUIk

Are you seriously hijacking threads to advertise your videos? wow.

No, I feel like he is just providing an example of how the original GW GvG was better than the current pvp system… Here’s another example, perhaps the most famous GvG video:
http://youtu.be/EFWvdyCk1Uo

Honestly the scale of 5v5 is easier to manage as opposed to 10v10. While there are other guilds that can find this a non-issue, I can imagine most guilds will have trouble coordinating with each other if there are many players in a single match. Plus from an E-Sports standpoint, looking at how five players fare against the other five does strike more engagement as opposed to 10. That’s just how I picture it at least.

I agree that 5v5 is probably too small. Not that I like huge group fights, as there are so many particle effects in this game that it’s impossible to see what’s going on in 4v4 or larger fights. But, the thing is, there are so many different objectives on that Stronghold map, that 5v5 will probably mean 1v1s or 2v2s everywhere, never anything larger.

It seems to me that the main reason they’re keeping it 5v5 is so they can easily slot it in to the existing ranked and unranked queues alongside conquest and courtyard. But there was such a huge outcry against that idea that I really don’t think they’re still planning to do that. And if they give Stronghold its own queue, they don’t have to keep it the same size as Conquest. They could make it 6v6 or 8v8 or whatever! Here’s hoping they’ll see the wisdom in tuning it up to 6v6 and giving it its own queue…

I would say it is more likely that the main reason for 5v5 is due to the game being balanced around 5v5.

It is kind of disappointing that after all of the buildup, Stronghold amounts to just another map for unranked Q.

We thought it was going to be a new game mode.

It is a new game mode.

I find it silly that people wont play it because they wanted 3 more people on their team. Where’s the competition in that? If you like hordes of players in a zerg fiesta, stick with wvw. It’ll still be there.

Saiyan.1704:

I find it silly that people wont play it because they wanted 3 more people on their team. Where’s the competition in that? If you like hordes of players in a zerg fiesta, stick with wvw. It’ll still be there.

You call 8v8 a zerg? That’s not a zerg.

This is a zerg.

If they made it 8v8 we’d still never see any team fights bigger than 5v5 – there’s just so many objectives on that map!

manveruppd.7601:

If they made it 8v8 we’d still never see any team fights bigger than 5v5 – there’s just so many objectives on that map!

8v8 would significantly reduce the amount of strategy needed on the map. It will be more about the fights than the tactics/strategy. They will always be someone somewhere fighting. IN guild wars 1 you had to reserve a spot or 2 for monks, which means not everybody is a fighter. In guild wars 2, no monks means everybody can potentially be dps.

I agree with you that the lack of monks makes a difference, but it all depends on things like
- the size of the map
- how frequently the supply depot refills
- how frequently the heroes spawn
- how easy the spawnable NPCs are to kill

From what they’ve shown us, I suspect 6v6 will turn out to be the sweet spot, I just said 8v8 in my last post to illustrate that teams will be forced to split, it won’t be a massive team fight in the centre.

manveruppd.7601:

I agree with you that the lack of monks makes a difference, but it all depends on things like
- the size of the map
- how frequently the supply depot refills
- how frequently the heroes spawn
- how easy the spawnable NPCs are to kill

From what they’ve shown us, I suspect 6v6 will turn out to be the sweet spot, I just said 8v8 in my last post to illustrate that teams will be forced to split, it won’t be a massive team fight in the centre.

Yes but the objectives being fixed, in 8v8 teams will always be someone at any of the map’s objective. With 5v5 teams will have to make a conscious decision on where to spread their team.

I disagree, yeah you can afford to have someone at each objective but that doesn’t mean you have to. For instance, the treb could be gamechanging in a big fight, but if you’re contesting lots of places at once and it’s all 1v1 and 2v2 the treb is marginal and you could choose to ignore it. Plus, there’s a matter of how many to send to each objective – I’ve had lots of games at Temple in which one side lost because they overcommited to Tranquility, for instance!

I just feel that this game isn’t at its best 1v1 – there are lots of classes that counter one another effectively (guardian>thief>ranger>necro>engi etc), so the sweet spot for fun, skillful combat is 2v2 up to 4v4. I think that in a map with so many objectives we will mostly be fighting 1v1, seldom 2v2, and almost never more than that.

You can still do up to 10v10 in custom arenas.

wow i amdea two psot long thread actually trying to make a long list of thing that should have been done and you get so many responses with a few lines

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/How-Stronghold-should-could-be/first#post4800681

Ace.5607:

Here’s another example, perhaps the most famous GvG video:
http://youtu.be/EFWvdyCk1Uo

I really wish the entire video didn’t consist of alternating between fast-forwarding through the slow parts and slow-motioning the spikes. I want to watch and gain some insight into what things were like in GvG days, but it appears I need in-depth knowledge of the skills, the meta, and the interactions between all of the classes/their roles to understand what is going on besides the ebb and flow of spike-calls against saves.

Regardless, I’ll be very curious to see how Stronghold turns out. I think ANet’s head is actually in the right place, especially from a spectator standpoint. A big issue with Conquest at the moment is that you are almost exclusively limited to watching fights that can be difficult to understand given the pace and amount of skills being used at any given time. If you add different objectives/roles, you allow a newer player to watch the drama of the strategy play out, giving them something to hold onto while they slowly understand more and more about classes and their capabilities during plays/teamfights/etc.

Regardless of all of the “lol game is dead” “pvp has been dead since launch” “lol anet thinks their game is an esport” bandwagoning that goes on in the community, this is the sort of step in the right direction I’ve been keeping an eye out for. Maybe the game mode won’t play out as neatly as I think it could, but they need a better foundational mode for spectatorship than Conquest, and it’s interesting to see that they might have actually learned that lesson.

Stronghold is much more like Fort Aspenwood from GW1 than anything GvG related.

Legacy of the Foefire is still closer to true GW1 GvG because it wasn’t artificially split into “phases” or dependent on resources. You controlled a midpoint flag to gain stat bonuses and Resurrection Signet Recharges, and depending on the team comp, you went for a split push to lord while the rest of the team had a teamfight elsewhere, or you wiped the enemy team and pushed the lord for the kill.

Again, Stronghold, much, much, much more of a Fort Aspenwood reincarnation, except this time around it looks 2 sided as opposed to offense/defense.

speaking of Foefire, they could make it so that the enemy gates are only vulnerable to attack only if you control 2 capture points. once you lose control any of them the enemy gates are back to invulnerable mode, and you have to recap again to make it vulnerable etc etc. that would make it interesting.

15 minutes match, point per kill, no point for capturing. if you kill the lord, like the stronghold, you win.

lordkrall.7241:

It is a new game mode.

it certainly is – and i’m sure that it’ll be very fun to learn and play as well. but it still came off as a disappointment to many people, who were expecting a new feature that truly lives up to the game name ‘guild wars.’ i guess the disappointment is bigger because they came so close to what everyone had been asking for, then fell short.

tichorum.2415:

You can still do up to 10v10 in custom arenas.

you’re right, you can. that is, there is the technology for it. but the concern is that the game was DESIGNED with the intention of having it played by 10 people, 5 on each team.