Guild Wars 2

IMO Chilled is currently too strong.

66% Increased CD recharge rate is really devastating.
66% Decreased movement speed is also devastating to most classes.

With the existence of Cripple and Immobilize it seems a little too much that there are 3 movement-impairing conditions out there.

Maybe the movement speed decrease should be removed?

/discuss

66% Increased CD is too much for eles

I never really got the point of having 2 movement-slowing conditions anyway. Especially because chill already has an extremely strong effect that ruins most rotations.

I agree. I think it should be 33%. It’s entirely too strong of a condition, especially when a class can build specifically for it.

the Chill effect is just fine.. there aren’t that many ways to apply it and they all have short durations.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

the Chill effect is just fine.. there aren’t that many ways to apply it and they all have short durations.

this would be true however there are certain specs (specifically on ranger and engi are two I can think of) that have the possibility to apply 10 or even 20 seconds of it at a time with proper runes and trait choices. When in shorter durations it’s not so bad but when you get crazy durations like that on you it starts to get a bit annoying especially if you dont have a condi cleanse coming off cooldown anytime soon.

BLUna.7928:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

the Chill effect is just fine.. there aren’t that many ways to apply it and they all have short durations.

this would be true however there are certain specs (specifically on ranger and engi are two I can think of) that have the possibility to apply 10 or even 20 seconds of it at a time with proper runes and trait choices. When in shorter durations it’s not so bad but when you get crazy durations like that on you it starts to get a bit annoying especially if you dont have a condi cleanse coming off cooldown anytime soon.

So the effect is fine, but duration is the issue? Duration, of any condition when you don’t have a clear, is annoying. I can put more than 40 seconds of burning on someone in a opener and walk away if they don’t have a clear up.

Pyriall.5027:

BLUna.7928:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

the Chill effect is just fine.. there aren’t that many ways to apply it and they all have short durations.

this would be true however there are certain specs (specifically on ranger and engi are two I can think of) that have the possibility to apply 10 or even 20 seconds of it at a time with proper runes and trait choices. When in shorter durations it’s not so bad but when you get crazy durations like that on you it starts to get a bit annoying especially if you dont have a condi cleanse coming off cooldown anytime soon.

So the effect is fine, but duration is the issue? Duration, of any condition when you don’t have a clear, is annoying. I can put more than 40 seconds of burning on someone in a opener and walk away if they don’t have a clear up.

this is true as well but another thing to consider is burning’s potency will increase with condition damage while chill will not.

Chill acts as a defense for some classes that do not have other good defenses. In particular, I am talking about necromancers and in particular, I am talking about builds other than the dumb dhuumfire build.

For power builds, weakening shroud has already been nerfed to the point that it is almost useless. Blind is another option for defense in power builds but the only access is a well on a base 50s cooldown and one blind on OH dagger which is something not every power build takes. (EDIT: or an active skill on a minion). Deathshroud is a crappy defense if there is any degree of focus fire.

With the necromancer, death shroud + conditions are supposed to act as a defense. Builds that are able to do insane damage using rabid gear may not need that, but for the sake of build diversity, it would be a mistake to nerf chilled.

EDIT: Additionally, as a power necromancer there are few gap closers and it has been implied that we will not be getting gap closers because our playstyle should be to “keep them in the pocket” using conditions. In a power build, get rid of chilled and you are basically letting your enemy disengage whenever they want to and have no way to catch up to them.

A better question that I have posed in the past is why do thieves get an inherent passive immunity to one aspect of chilled (cooldowns on 1-5 skills)

BLUna.7928:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

the Chill effect is just fine.. there aren’t that many ways to apply it and they all have short durations.

this would be true however there are certain specs (specifically on ranger and engi are two I can think of) that have the possibility to apply 10 or even 20 seconds of it at a time with proper runes and trait choices. When in shorter durations it’s not so bad but when you get crazy durations like that on you it starts to get a bit annoying especially if you dont have a condi cleanse coming off cooldown anytime soon.

Chill is fine. There aren’t a ton of ways to chill, outside of an Ice Elementalist, and the as previously said, the duration on most chill effects is short.

If somebody can apply lots of chill with traits, runes and sigils, then they’re sacrificing a lot to be able to do this to you, and it’s a completely viable tactic. If you don’t have a way to cleanse chill, then it’s kind of on you. I’m not saying chill isn’t powerful, it is, but so is stun, daze and retaliation. I’m not aware of any build that gets sickly abusive with chill, again, Ice Elementalists aside, and I know you’re not complaining about those poor guys, right?

Sure, Chill can be very bad for you if you don’t have a cleanse up and if the opponent built a large portion of their game around it. Isn’t that kind of the point, then? Why should they bother rune-ing and traiting up for something that doesn’t impair you at all?

Clearly working as intended.

Sepreh.5924:

A better question that I have posed in the past is why do thieves get an inherent passive immunity to one aspect of chilled (cooldowns on 1-5 skills)

That’s a really good point, if anything it should decrease initiative regeneration by some amount.

Acandis.3250:

Sepreh.5924:

A better question that I have posed in the past is why do thieves get an inherent passive immunity to one aspect of chilled (cooldowns on 1-5 skills)

That’s a really good point, if anything it should decrease initiative regeneration by some amount.

I asked about it on here a while ago and a dev replied. It looks like it will not happen any time soon

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Chilled-and-initiative/first

Acandis.3250:

Sepreh.5924:

A better question that I have posed in the past is why do thieves get an inherent passive immunity to one aspect of chilled (cooldowns on 1-5 skills)

That’s a really good point, if anything it should decrease initiative regeneration by some amount.

It was like this in beta (first weekend) and if you chilled a thief, you 100% shut them down, it was so broken I almost felt bad for running ice trap + axe…. Almost.

Nothing makes my day better than the steal skill from eles! Smacking that absurdly long chill in their face right after their condition cleanse burst is pretty much leaving them dead ;p

In spvp matches i get more often immobilized than chilled. I know that chill can be annoying, but i dont think its that good with the absurd number of condi removels in the game.
And most builds that are focus on chill like a freezemancer (can give perma chill) are really bad.

Acandis.3250:

Sepreh.5924:

A better question that I have posed in the past is why do thieves get an inherent passive immunity to one aspect of chilled (cooldowns on 1-5 skills)

That’s a really good point, if anything it should decrease initiative regeneration by some amount.

That’s far more brutal than CD increases.

Chill should just put a 1s~ CD on all skills after each skill use (besides auto attack) and maybe a 15% movement speed debuff.
It’d create a bit of depth, you can’t spam one skill after another and can finesse into/out of melee range a bit more, but it won’t utterly shut down anyone.

Right now its generally a pretty long duration extreme condi.
It’s in many situations useless or scooped up in blanket cleansing.
If you are fighting pure melee… 66% movement speed reduction means they are useless.
If you are fighting an ele… 66% CD increase means you are going to suffer terribly.

It doesn’t need to be such a hardcore condition, a general debuff would be much better…
Anyways, condis as a whole are utterly kittened up in this game.

garethh.3518:

Acandis.3250:

Sepreh.5924:

A better question that I have posed in the past is why do thieves get an inherent passive immunity to one aspect of chilled (cooldowns on 1-5 skills)

That’s a really good point, if anything it should decrease initiative regeneration by some amount.

That’s far more brutal than CD increases.

Chill should just put a 1s~ CD on all skills after each skill use (besides auto attack) and maybe a 15% movement speed debuff.
It’d create a bit of depth, you can’t spam one skill after another and can finesse into/out of melee range a bit more, but it won’t utterly shut down anyone.

Right now its generally a pretty long duration extreme condi.
It’s in many situations useless or scooped up in blanket cleansing.
If you are fighting pure melee… 66% movement speed reduction means they are useless.
If you are fighting an ele… 66% CD increase means you are going to suffer terribly.

It doesn’t need to be such a hardcore condition, a general debuff would be much better…
Anyways, condis as a whole are utterly kittened up in this game.

Actually it was intended to be one of the strongest conditions, but as it stands builds that are mainly based on chill are really bad (but really fun). And for builds that have chill but dont focus on it, it is acually fine.

garethh.3518:

Anyways, condis as a whole are utterly kittened up in this game.

The damage dealing condis in this game are kittened up. Being able to burst with bleeding, burning, torment and poison (and confusion) in rabid or dire gear more quickly than direct damage bursting in a full berserker set up is kittened up.

The non-damage dealing conditions are what is not currently kittened up in the game right now. Again, chill is one of the conditions that people have to lock down their opponents. It also does not completely disable skill use. In certain professions/builds without access to blinks, evades, stealths, etc, it also acts as a defense and way to disengage from a fight.

The non-damage-dealing conditions in the game are:
1. Cripple
2. Blind
3. Chilled
4. Immobilized
5. Vulnerability
6. Weakness
7. Fear (if not traited with terror)

Of these, there are two which people generally consider to be kittened up. Blind, when a smoke field can be spammed (blinding powder) and Immobilized when stacked to max duration. The other conditions are only considered over the top because they are usually preventing the damage dealing conditions from being cleansed.

Chilled is powerful but as others have said, unless the spec is fully traited for chill, the number of applications and duration are not that impressive and the build is losing out on damage. A chill build is a lockdown build meant to be played with a damage dealing teammate who can take advantage of the opponent’s lock down.

chill is completely fine. The amount of people trying to completely get rid of conditions in this game are ridiculous. Op do you realize that classes like necros, eles, and engineers would have to be completely redone if you removed this one condition.

To be honest I found chills worth outside of a snare hard to practically quantify. I dont really notice the impact of chilled enemies CDR. Even when not playing thief I dont recall it being that noticeable. I’ve felt weakness more threatening.

Sepreh.5924:

garethh.3518:

Anyways, condis as a whole are utterly kittened up in this game.

The damage dealing condis in this game are kittened up. Being able to burst with bleeding, burning, torment and poison (and confusion) in rabid or dire gear more quickly than direct damage bursting in a full berserker set up is kittened up.

The non-damage dealing conditions are what is not currently kittened up in the game right now. Again, chill is one of the conditions that people have to lock down their opponents. It also does not completely disable skill use. In certain professions/builds without access to blinks, evades, stealths, etc, it also acts as a defense and way to disengage from a fight.

The non-damage-dealing conditions in the game are:
1. Cripple
2. Blind
3. Chilled
4. Immobilized
5. Vulnerability
6. Weakness
7. Fear (if not traited with terror)

Of these, there are two which people generally consider to be kittened up. Blind, when a smoke field can be spammed (blinding powder) and Immobilized when stacked to max duration. The other conditions are only considered over the top because they are usually preventing the damage dealing conditions from being cleansed.

Chilled is powerful but as others have said, unless the spec is fully traited for chill, the number of applications and duration are not that impressive and the build is losing out on damage. A chill build is a lockdown build meant to be played with a damage dealing teammate who can take advantage of the opponent’s lock down.

I agree, with all of that.

If anything, I would like to see the movement reduction altered to make way for Cripple. Currently, Chill not only slows more than Cripple, but it has additional effects, leaving Cripple in the dust. I would take longer Chill applications at half effectiveness (or something similar) in order to ratify this.

Balefire.7592:

If anything, I would like to see the movement reduction altered to make way for Cripple. Currently, Chill not only slows more than Cripple, but it has additional effects, leaving Cripple in the dust. I would take longer Chill applications at half effectiveness (or something similar) in order to ratify this.

I disagree, chill was always supposed to be a stronger version of cripple but rarer.
Chill has to stay as it is.

Muchacho.2390:

Balefire.7592:

If anything, I would like to see the movement reduction altered to make way for Cripple. Currently, Chill not only slows more than Cripple, but it has additional effects, leaving Cripple in the dust. I would take longer Chill applications at half effectiveness (or something similar) in order to ratify this.

I disagree, chill was always supposed of a stronger version of cripple but rarer.
Chill has to stay as it is.

The problem, however, is that’s about as common as cripple. I don’t have any preference regarding what to do with Chill, but it currently outclasses Cripple by too much, too often.

Acandis.3250:

IMO Chilled is currently too strong.

66% Increased CD recharge rate is really devastating.
66% Decreased movement speed is also devastating to most classes.

With the existence of Cripple and Immobilize it seems a little too much that there are 3 movement-impairing conditions out there.

Maybe the movement speed decrease should be removed?

/discuss

Yeah, but IMO I would rather have Chill over immob.

Balefire.7592:

Muchacho.2390:

Balefire.7592:

If anything, I would like to see the movement reduction altered to make way for Cripple. Currently, Chill not only slows more than Cripple, but it has additional effects, leaving Cripple in the dust. I would take longer Chill applications at half effectiveness (or something similar) in order to ratify this.

I disagree, chill was always supposed of a stronger version of cripple but rarer.
Chill has to stay as it is.

The problem, however, is that’s about as common as cripple. I don’t have any preference regarding what to do with Chill, but it currently outclasses Cripple by too much, too often.

Really? If i look at gw2 wiki is see far more skills that apply cripple than chill and those normally last longer than chill…
And more importantly more classes have access to cripple than chill (without runes,sigel,racial skills, etc.).

Muchacho.2390:

Balefire.7592:

Muchacho.2390:

Balefire.7592:

If anything, I would like to see the movement reduction altered to make way for Cripple. Currently, Chill not only slows more than Cripple, but it has additional effects, leaving Cripple in the dust. I would take longer Chill applications at half effectiveness (or something similar) in order to ratify this.

I disagree, chill was always supposed of a stronger version of cripple but rarer.
Chill has to stay as it is.

The problem, however, is that’s about as common as cripple. I don’t have any preference regarding what to do with Chill, but it currently outclasses Cripple by too much, too often.

Really? If i look at gw2 wiki is see far more skills that apply cripple than chill and those normally last longer than chill…
And more importantly more classes have access to cripple than chill (without runes,sigel,racial skills, etc.).

I count 43 reliable sources of cripple spread out over all land-based weapon, utility and elite skills excluding downed and racial skills, and there are no “external” Cripple sources. On the other hand, there are 27 skills (chosen in a similar fashion) that do the same for chilled, plus three rune effects and two sigils (which will proc at some point, so they cannot be ignored). When comparing traits, there are 8 Cripple inducing traits as opposed to 5 Chill traits.
Hence, we currently sit at a relative ratio of 1 Cripple to ~0.63 Chill. Whether or not you agree with me is up to you, but I personally think it’s too high given the disparity in power. Condition duration further compounds this, as an extended Chill is far worse for the opponent, and while we have runes and a sigil that increase Chill durations, nothing similar exists for Cripple.

Balefire.7592:

Muchacho.2390:

Balefire.7592:

Muchacho.2390:

Balefire.7592:

If anything, I would like to see the movement reduction altered to make way for Cripple. Currently, Chill not only slows more than Cripple, but it has additional effects, leaving Cripple in the dust. I would take longer Chill applications at half effectiveness (or something similar) in order to ratify this.

I disagree, chill was always supposed of a stronger version of cripple but rarer.
Chill has to stay as it is.

The problem, however, is that’s about as common as cripple. I don’t have any preference regarding what to do with Chill, but it currently outclasses Cripple by too much, too often.

Really? If i look at gw2 wiki is see far more skills that apply cripple than chill and those normally last longer than chill…
And more importantly more classes have access to cripple than chill (without runes,sigel,racial skills, etc.).

I count 43 reliable sources of cripple spread out over all land-based weapon, utility and elite skills excluding downed and racial skills. On the other hand, there are 27 skills (chosen in a similar fashion) that do the same for chilled, plus three rune effects and two sigils (both of which will proc at some point, so they cannot be ignored). When comparing traits, there are 8 Cripple inducing traits as opposed to 5 Chill traits.
Hence, we currently sit at a relative ratio of 1 Cripple to ~0.63 Chill. Whether or not you agree with me is up to you, but I personally think it’s too high given the disparity in power. Condition duration further compounds this, as an extended Chill is far worse for the opponent.

I think the ratio is ok. Important to know is that chill is mainly given to classes like eles, necros and rangers, 3 classes that are supposed to do more of a kiting gameplay.

I agree however that the chill runes and sigils are too much and maybe should be changed into cripple runes and sigils.

I think something missing from your comparison is the frequency at which those cripple-inducing effects can happen vs the chill ones.

ie: it’s waaaaaaay easier to spam cripple.

BLUna.7928:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

the Chill effect is just fine.. there aren’t that many ways to apply it and they all have short durations.

this would be true however there are certain specs (specifically on ranger and engi are two I can think of) that have the possibility to apply 10 or even 20 seconds of it at a time with proper runes and trait choices. When in shorter durations it’s not so bad but when you get crazy durations like that on you it starts to get a bit annoying especially if you dont have a condi cleanse coming off cooldown anytime soon.

With the cooldown increase of 66% with chill it really screws with you if you have condi cleanse on cd

BLUna.7928:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

the Chill effect is just fine.. there aren’t that many ways to apply it and they all have short durations.

this would be true however there are certain specs (specifically on ranger and engi are two I can think of) that have the possibility to apply 10 or even 20 seconds of it at a time with proper runes and trait choices. When in shorter durations it’s not so bad but when you get crazy durations like that on you it starts to get a bit annoying especially if you dont have a condi cleanse coming off cooldown anytime soon.

it is fine since those are specialized build catered especially for that purpose.

This has needed to happen a long time ago. Except chill probably should stack in intensity (Max 3 stacks, 22% slow per stack) because it would be GREAT if people would “time” chill instead of randomly spamming it.

Necro/engi chills are too long, everybody else’s sucks. Thieves get 3 seconds of chill on a 45 sec cooldown. In fact, it’s less than that, since you can’t improve it with condition duration because it’s delivered in packets of 1.

So, nerf necro/engi chills, improve everyone else’s.

Oxygen.5918:

Necro/engi chills are too long, everybody else’s sucks. Thieves get 3 seconds of chill on a 45 sec cooldown. In fact, it’s less than that, since you can’t improve it with condition duration because it’s delivered in packets of 1.

So, nerf necro/engi chills, improve everyone else’s.

First eles chill is just as good if not better. Engineers and Necros are supposed to have good soft cc and nerfing it would remove a lot of that.

The problem with this, just like all the other proposed nerf to “defensive” conditions: Necromancers 100% rely on conditions to not be worthless. Without chill, just like the rest of our conditions, Necromancers will get pushed further and further towards full DPS builds. As it is now, MM is the only common Necro build that is defensive, the rest have been totally pushed towards full offense because defense is already pretty bad.

So if chill is an issue, then nerf its duration where applicable. It doesn’t make any sense to punish every single class in the game because a few builds abuse chill; just nerf the offenders.

^
Your class already has fear chains, good condition cleanse, a second HP bar, protection, and the highest HP pool in the game. You don’t need mobility either when you have those. Enough is enough.

Amir.1570:

^
Your class already has fear chains, good condition cleanse, a second HP bar, protection, and the highest HP pool in the game. You don’t need mobility either when you have those. Enough is enough.

Well only in a condi build you have chain fear.
Good condition clear is only in condi and mm builds and most condi clears need a target (dodge/block those skills and the necro has only cc as condi clear).
The second HP bar is only 60-78% of you HP and it degenerates fast while in DS (unless traited). An plz dont forget while in DS necros are have no 6-0 skill, cannot be healt, cannot stomp/rez/interact. And because of that we have no block,immunity skills or vigor.
Necros access to protection is average and on high cds.
Highest hp pool means nothing in a game with so much selfheal (look at warriors before and after the buffs…) ofc unless you can burst someone down…

But all that a side, necros are supposed to be the class which it is hardest to run from. Without mobility we need strong slows… and if you roam a little in wvw as necro with a chill build you will see, that even with all the chill, cripple etc. its easy to run from a necromancer, unless your opponent is a necromancer as well (or has a terrible build).

So far I see two suggestions I like:

• Make chilled stack intensity (3 max) so each stack adds 22% movement speed reduction and 22% decrease cooldown recharge rate.
• Make chilled affect initiative gain. This would obviously have to be something not as severe as 66% to not completely shut down thieves, but it needs to be something so that thieves aren’t just immune to the primary effects of Chilled.

I dont think Anet will change the slow aspect of chill. They said clearly that they want chill to be a much stronger version of cripple. And i think they quiet like the cd recharge increase effect.
So if they would ever change something it would be the skills that inflict chill, not chill itself.

Chill by itself is fine. Chill when stacked with 3-4 other conditions is a nightmare.

Condi bombing and bursting is out of control, and needs to be fixed.

JohnnyZero.5619:

Chill by itself is fine. Chill when stacked with 3-4 other conditions is a nightmare.

Condi bombing and bursting is out of control, and needs to be fixed.

I agree with this.

I don’t have a problem with Chill but in conjunction with other conditions being dumped on you, it’s too much.

I don’t think chill should affect attunement cooldowns

How is chill too strong? yes it’s more effective than cripple, but you’re forgetting 2 things:
1. chill is a lot less common; there are many skills that inflict cripple, and only few that inflict chill.
2. chill usually has a short duration.

Amir.1570:

^
Your class already has fear chains, good condition cleanse, a second HP bar, protection, and the highest HP pool in the game. You don’t need mobility either when you have those. Enough is enough.

I’m sorry, but any idea that Necromancers have too much defense is just ignorant, at best. We have the worst active defense in the game. HP means nothing when you cannot mitigate a single bit of damage that comes in.

JohnnyZero.5619:

Chill by itself is fine. Chill when stacked with 3-4 other conditions is a nightmare.

Condi bombing and bursting is out of control, and needs to be fixed.

I am trying to get a sense of what other conditions chill is a nightmare with

Again, there are damage dealing conditions and non damage dealing conditions. My guess is that you are not saying that the combination of chilled, weakness, blind and cripple is a nightmare but are instead saying that the combination of chilled, burning, bleeding and torment is a nightmare.

When people are discussing conditions, it is useful to separate the damage dealing ones from the non damage dealing ones. Personally, I think it would make sense for condi cleanses to be less available and apply only to the former.

It is currently popular to bash conditions and I agree that the damage dealing conditions in certain builds can be over the top. The non damage dealing conditions are currently the aspect of conditions that are not broken, other than spammable blind fields and chain immobilize, as I have previously mentioned