Guild Wars 2

Hello all,

I have been PvP’ing for quite a long time now, but with some long breaks due to pure boredom. After a big update/patch I start playing again, and after some time I lose my interest in the game again. I know that this is mostly because of the lack of differentiation in PvP. In a lot of topics on these forums that I respond in, I try to convince people that a larger set of different viable builds for every profession is a key factor to make PvP more attractive and competitive.

In its current state, every profession has pretty much only 1 viable role in the higher tiers of PvP. For example:
- Revenant: Power damage
- Elementalist: Support
- Druid: Support
- Mesmer: Condi damage
- Etc.

One of the reasons behind this, is the fact that you got to fully invest in 3 traitlines. With other words, for 1 trait that you need in a traitline, you have to pick 2 other traits in that traitline that you might not even want. If this is the case, you really have to make sure that every trait is pretty much evenly useful. Unfortunately this is not the case. The HoT Elite specs are almost always stronger than the normal traitlines, and every profession still has a lot of useless traits (even Grandmaster traits). Therefore it is a bad thing that if you only want an Adept or a Master trait from 1 traitline, you also have to pick a Grandmaster trait from that traitline, while an Adept trait from a different traitline might be even more useful. I play Ranger/Druid these days, and I can think of many examples for this, so I guess that could be for every other profession the case as well. The old trait system allowed you to actually do this, while the current trait system does not.

Therefore, I think that this trait system does even less stimulate build diversion than the old trait system. When I see an Ele, I do not want to know for sure that it is a bunker on beforehand. When I see a Revenant, I do not want to know for sure that it is a power rev on beforehand. This game really needs more build diversity, and not a very tight Meta with just a few viable proffesions and specs. Adjusting the trait system would be a first step to reach this. I would enjoy watching an ESL-match between 2 totally different teams a lot more than 2 basically the same teams.

Just to be clear: altering the trait system would in my opinion be a good first step, not a solution to every problem. What do you guys think?

+1+1+1+1+1 for sure.
i just hope that devs will pay attention and seriously consider re-working traits. there are some games out there that really have interesting build systems. like RIFT for example. i do think we really really badly need some kind of re-work. i used to live in HotM pvp testing many builds, tweaking them to my taste and my style. and it was awesome. and whenever this trait change kicked in i just can’t stay interested. i basically know every build out there just by a glance. of course it’s awesome now that we have 3 grandmasters but after awhile you realise they just loose the weight of being grandmasters and overall it totally kills build diversity/uniqueness. instead of that third grandmaster maybe even some adept would be alot more useful and would sinergyze alot better in that particular build. i think we need something like really 100% customizable system. lets say we have X amount of slots and we can use anything we want and we aren’t so forced into some kind of metas or locked to that particular tree anymore.

so yes. i really hope developers will pay attention to this and really consider it. cuz it would really be a blast to be able to make your truly original and fun build that fits your style.

The old trait system was much more flexible and fun to mess around with, excluding the Stats that were tied to certain traitlines. But it is gone never to return, believe me. Anet will NEVER change it, cause this makes it easier to understand (the game is too casual IMO), but much more boring and straight up no-brainer (2 major traits always outshine the other one).
I would like it to return without the stats tied to it, but Anet surely won’t reintroduce it out of their stubbornness. Their mistake.

Most MMO’s out there have a restrictive build system, it isn’t anything new, but Gw2 has a potential do diversify the builds. It’s really frustrating when all that potential is wasted. Unfortunately, I won’t think they’ll go with another system, it’s a pity.

Tomiyou.3790:

The old trait system was much more flexible and fun to mess around with, excluding the Stats that were tied to certain traitlines. But it is gone never to return, believe me. Anet will NEVER change it, cause this makes it easier to understand (the game is too casual IMO), but much more boring and straight up no-brainer (2 major traits always outshine the other one).
I would like it to return without the stats tied to it, but Anet surely won’t reintroduce it out of their stubbornness. Their mistake.

Making the system easier for new players to understand might be a factor, but there are more reasons for that decision. It was requires to make elite specs work. How do you want to work with the elite specs without the need to fully invest? So I could put just one point in this trait line to get access to the new weapon? And it’s important for balancing… anet has to keep in mind that future elite specs have to be balanced. It is WAY harder to balance all possible combinations of your desired old system than balancing with just 3 fully traited lines.

Does it reduce build diversity? Sure, it does. But it is for the sake of the game. Most people are already complaining that some things are op with the actual system. Imagine the balancing problem, if we let people invest in trait lines as they wish.

Kodama.6453:

Tomiyou.3790:

The old trait system was much more flexible and fun to mess around with, excluding the Stats that were tied to certain traitlines. But it is gone never to return, believe me. Anet will NEVER change it, cause this makes it easier to understand (the game is too casual IMO), but much more boring and straight up no-brainer (2 major traits always outshine the other one).
I would like it to return without the stats tied to it, but Anet surely won’t reintroduce it out of their stubbornness. Their mistake.

Making the system easier for new players to understand might be a factor, but there are more reasons for that decision. It was requires to make elite specs work. How do you want to work with the elite specs without the need to fully invest? So I could put just one point in this trait line to get access to the new weapon? And it’s important for balancing… anet has to keep in mind that future elite specs have to be balanced. It is WAY harder to balance all possible combinations of your desired old system than balancing with just 3 fully traited lines.

Does it reduce build diversity? Sure, it does. But it is for the sake of the game. Most people are already complaining that some things are op with the actual system. Imagine the balancing problem, if we let people invest in trait lines as they wish.

well but that’s why developers exist no? it’s their job to make things work and make a decent balance too. there are really customizable games out there, yet it’s alot more balanced then gw2. so.. lot more builds and yet other games nail it at balancing out and not overpowercreeping things. that’s what devs have to figure out. cuz even with this 1-way trait system their game is far from balanced. if they really do care about their game at some point in time they’ll really need to fix things. and not just tweaking numbers but actually balancing it out from the core. that’s when some kind of new trait system will be possible. as for now… let us just enjoy this boring mode and hope for a better future ^^

Hell no. Enough with these changes! At this point Anet just needs to keep a system and improve on it, instead of changing every year.

Sorel.4870:

Hell no. Enough with these changes! At this point Anet just needs to keep a system and improve on it, instead of changing every year.

Improving a bad system requires (big) changes to this system.

Bump………………………….

-8 days .

Yeh well maybe they could merge the topics into 1, because multiple people opened topics about the trait system.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Hello all,

I have been PvP’ing for quite a long time now, but with some long breaks due to pure boredom. After a big update/patch I start playing again, and after some time I lose my interest in the game again. I know that this is mostly because of the lack of differentiation in PvP. In a lot of topics on these forums that I respond in, I try to convince people that a larger set of different viable builds for every profession is a key factor to make PvP more attractive and competitive.

In its current state, every profession has pretty much only 1 viable role in the higher tiers of PvP. For example:
- Revenant: Power damage
- Elementalist: Support
- Druid: Support
- Mesmer: Condi damage
- Etc.

One of the reasons behind this, is the fact that you got to fully invest in 3 traitlines. With other words, for 1 trait that you need in a traitline, you have to pick 2 other traits in that traitline that you might not even want. If this is the case, you really have to make sure that every trait is pretty much evenly useful. Unfortunately this is not the case. The HoT Elite specs are almost always stronger than the normal traitlines, and every profession still has a lot of useless traits (even Grandmaster traits). Therefore it is a bad thing that if you only want an Adept or a Master trait from 1 traitline, you also have to pick a Grandmaster trait from that traitline, while an Adept trait from a different traitline might be even more useful. I play Ranger/Druid these days, and I can think of many examples for this, so I guess that could be for every other profession the case as well. The old trait system allowed you to actually do this, while the current trait system does not.

Therefore, I think that this trait system does even less stimulate build diversion than the old trait system. When I see an Ele, I do not want to know for sure that it is a bunker on beforehand. When I see a Revenant, I do not want to know for sure that it is a power rev on beforehand. This game really needs more build diversity, and not a very tight Meta with just a few viable proffesions and specs. Adjusting the trait system would be a first step to reach this. I would enjoy watching an ESL-match between 2 totally different teams a lot more than 2 basically the same teams.

Just to be clear: altering the trait system would in my opinion be a good first step, not a solution to every problem. What do you guys think?

Or….you could keep the current system and have it such that a character can pick any 9 traits from any of the 1 – 3 trait lines they select. For instance a person could run only Death magic in the case of necros or he could run just Soul Reaping by selecting all 9 traits from that specialization. Or a person could do what they are doing now and go with all 3 and select one from each. Sounds more interesting to me than going back to the overly complicated and not so eye-candy trait system.

Also, if you think some traits are that bad, you could suggest traits you think would be better suited for those slots.

Dirame.8521:

Or….you could keep the current system and have it such that a character can pick any 9 traits from any of the 1 – 3 trait lines they select. For instance a person could run only Death magic in the case of necros or he could run just Soul Reaping by selecting all 9 traits from that specialization. Or a person could do what they are doing now and go with all 3 and select one from each. Sounds more interesting to me than going back to the overly complicated and not so eye-candy trait system.

Also, if you think some traits are that bad, you could suggest traits you think would be better suited for those slots.

Yeh thats also a solution. I’m not saying we really have to get back to the old system, but certain aspects of that old system are better than the current sytem. They could develop a new system as a mix between the current and the old ones, that’s fine by me too. We need changes to the current system that encourage build diversity, that’s all. How they plan to do that? I don’t care so much.