Guild Wars 2

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1m39o7/mmos_in_a_nutshell/cc5hfvo

So, I’ve never really paid any attention to PvE – Not at all. I don’t know whats coming out, I don’t pay attention to the release schedule, what they get, etc etc etc. I understood that PvE got alot more than PvP in terms of content – that much was painfully obvious.

But is what this person saying true? Twice a month PvE players can expect new and interesting content? This is an exaggeration, right?

I mean how could it be true, when we’ve been waiting nigh on 3 months for this awful meta to change, still have 1 game mode, solo Q is still busted, a lot of the population is still experiencing lag issues in games… and so on and so on.

Evan Lesh.3295:

The updates exclusive to PvE and PvP are hard to compare. Almost all PvP features require very intensive programmer and server support like solo queue, matchmaking, custom arenas, spectator mode, etc. Living story updates leverage existing technology to advance the story and expand content with new mobs, crafting recipes, dungeons, etc. PvP has few areas expandable by content; the main feature being maps which we release regularly. Balance updates affect all parts of the game and don’t come out for one any faster for one than the other.

I get new features are programming intensive but… and I know you can’t say this BUT, development focused on spvp has been significantly slower than what’s happened for pve and wvw : / there are many pretty basic QOL spvp issues the community has been asking for basically since launch and they dont’ seem to even be on the horizon. I don’t know what you have to do internally to make it happen but, in all honesty, you guys really got to speed up spvp development. Like, really.

Evan Lesh.3295:

The updates exclusive to PvE and PvP are hard to compare. Almost all PvP features require very intensive programmer and server support like solo queue, matchmaking, custom arenas, spectator mode, etc. Living story updates leverage existing technology to advance the story and expand content with new mobs, crafting recipes, dungeons, etc. PvP has few areas expandable by content; the main feature being maps which we release regularly. Balance updates affect all parts of the game and don’t come out for one any faster for one than the other.

The company was hoping for this game to become an E-sport, didn’t they take these factors into account? I understand that the work is harder, which is why I would expect the PvP team to be larger than the PvE team…though I don’t know for sure, I suspect that is not the case.

Spectator mode for hot join only is basically pointless. Where is spectator mode for TPvP?

Perhaps you should change your philosophy regarding balance updates – Seeing as PvP isn’t seeing 2 fun, interesting content updates per month, perhaps they could instead see faster and better tested balance updates, split from PvE (Because we don’t want PvP balance ruining PvE experience, and vice versa).

Concerning maps, we’ve gotten I believe 3 new maps since launch (That’s off the top of my head and could be wrong) – that’s 1 map every 4 months…roughly 1/8th the speed of PvE updates.

Both Solo Q and Mathmaking have had issues since launch that have so far been unaddressed – you can’t really tout giving players functions and modes that don’t work correctly as a positive.

The bottom line is PvE players are catered to, and happy. PvP players are mostly ignored, and unhappy. I know the tone of this has seemed harsh, but honestly, I think that’s what you need. Don’t tell me how hard everything is – just put the requisite amount of effort into it to make it work. I want you to understand that I really do enjoy this game, I just wish PvP players weren’t clearly second class citizens, and I really wish Dev’s would stop using difficulty as an excuse and just start giving us the time and attention PvE gets.

Regardless of how I feel about the state of the game, I’d like to thank you for taking the time to respond – it is appreciated.

Evan

Balance updates affect all parts of the game and don’t come out for one any faster for one than the other.

I don’t agree with this

balance changes should not affect all parts of the game
PvE and PvP need to be balanced separately. skills need to start having splits in PvE and PvP, like you guys usually do, just more of it. I believe one of the main reasons the meta is in such a rut is because of a lack of this feature.

It takes a long time to bring out basic features that don’t work, it will take longer to make them work.

That isn’t the way anyone wants it but that is the way it is.

Evan Lesh.3295:

The updates exclusive to PvE and PvP are hard to compare. Almost all PvP features require very intensive programmer and server support like solo queue, matchmaking, custom arenas, spectator mode, etc. Living story updates leverage existing technology to advance the story and expand content with new mobs, crafting recipes, dungeons, etc. PvP has few areas expandable by content; the main feature being maps which we release regularly. Balance updates affect all parts of the game and don’t come out for one any faster for one than the other.

Invest one time in a bunch of programmers and get the infrastructure solid. After that we don’t require bi-weekly updates.

Evan Lesh.3295:

The updates exclusive to PvE and PvP are hard to compare. Almost all PvP features require very intensive programmer and server support like solo queue, matchmaking, custom arenas, spectator mode, etc. Living story updates leverage existing technology to advance the story and expand content with new mobs, crafting recipes, dungeons, etc. PvP has few areas expandable by content; the main feature being maps which we release regularly. Balance updates affect all parts of the game and don’t come out for one any faster for one than the other.

Your team throws around the words “difficult” and “you don’t understand the amount of work” a lot, so I’ll counter with this:

If I was a child and I had to wear hand-me-down clothes, shoes purchased from a thrift shop and on my 16th birthday, I don’t get a car. If you tell me “I’m sorry son, we just don’t have the money for those things”. I could understand that and just figure that my parents would do it if they had the dough.

Now, if during this time and hearing the excuses, if my sister was wearing designer clothing, shoes, and on her 16th birthday got a new car, I think I would have a reaaaaaal hard time with that.

That’s what’s happening here. I’m tired of hearing, “I’m sorry son, we just don’t have the money” when my brat sister is walking around this place looking like Paris Hilton.

butch.8136:

Invest one time in a bunch of programmers and get the infrastructure solid. After that we don’t require bi-weekly updates.

I have this odd feeling that you’ve never done any programming work in your life.

butch.8136:

Evan Lesh.3295:

The updates exclusive to PvE and PvP are hard to compare. Almost all PvP features require very intensive programmer and server support like solo queue, matchmaking, custom arenas, spectator mode, etc. Living story updates leverage existing technology to advance the story and expand content with new mobs, crafting recipes, dungeons, etc. PvP has few areas expandable by content; the main feature being maps which we release regularly. Balance updates affect all parts of the game and don’t come out for one any faster for one than the other.

Invest one time in a bunch of programmers and get the infrastructure solid. After that we don’t require bi-weekly updates.

I just want to use what butch said to clarify – The point of my post wasn’t “Wah, why aren’t WE getting bi-weekly updates!” I don’t think PvP needs new toys every 2 weeks. The point is why are our updates so sporadic, ill-functioning and poorly tested while PvE is guaranteed new fun every 2 weeks. The extreme disparity between the 2 should be reduced.

evilapprentice.6379:

I just want to use what butch said to clarify – The point of my post wasn’t “Wah, why aren’t WE getting bi-weekly updates!” I don’t think PvP needs new toys every 2 weeks. The point is why are our updates so sporadic, ill-functioning and poorly tested while PvE is guaranteed new fun every 2 weeks. The extreme disparity between the 2 should be reduced.

Is it really that hard for you to comprehend?

PvE updates are created using dev kits and map tools that exist and are simply a question of map designers and content creators putting the tools to work.

PvP updates (balancing is the balancing team) require actually creating tools from scratch; hence why they are sporadic and sometimes ill.

Vena.8436:

evilapprentice.6379:

I just want to use what butch said to clarify – The point of my post wasn’t “Wah, why aren’t WE getting bi-weekly updates!” I don’t think PvP needs new toys every 2 weeks. The point is why are our updates so sporadic, ill-functioning and poorly tested while PvE is guaranteed new fun every 2 weeks. The extreme disparity between the 2 should be reduced.

Is it really that hard for you to comprehend?

PvE updates are created using dev kits and map tools that exist and are simply a question of map designers and content creators putting the tools to work.

PvP updates (balancing is the balancing team) require actually creating tools from scratch; hence why they are sporadic and sometimes ill.

If this were true, every single MMO in the world would be in the same position.

It seems to me ANet puts priority on PvE and not PvP, because this isn’t the case for every single MMO in the world. Direct comparisons aren’t allowed, but not so long ago I played a game where PvP content/balancing patches were heavily discussed/tested with the communities help, and they were fairly successful, and it didn’t even take an entire year.

Your statement also doesn’t touch on how PvP has seen 3 new maps in 12 months – by your own argument, that’s an easy addition.

Furthermore, as it’s been brought up a hundred times on these forums, and PTR would do wonders for both the Dev’s AND the community.
A) A place to test balance/content changes that don’t screw up the game for everyone
B) A chance to allow players to playtest your changes FOR FREE.
C) It frees the team from the responsibility of guaranteeing everything works from the getgo – the team could be more adventurous with balance changes and content changes because if it doesn’t work out, there’s still time to tweak without kitten ing off the entire community.

felivear.1536:

Evan Lesh.3295:

The updates exclusive to PvE and PvP are hard to compare. Almost all PvP features require very intensive programmer and server support like solo queue, matchmaking, custom arenas, spectator mode, etc. Living story updates leverage existing technology to advance the story and expand content with new mobs, crafting recipes, dungeons, etc. PvP has few areas expandable by content; the main feature being maps which we release regularly. Balance updates affect all parts of the game and don’t come out for one any faster for one than the other.

Your team throws around the words “difficult” and “you don’t understand the amount of work” a lot, so I’ll counter with this:

If I was a child and I had to wear hand-me-down clothes, shoes purchased from a thrift shop and on my 16th birthday, I don’t get a car. If you tell me “I’m sorry son, we just don’t have the money for those things”. I could understand that and just figure that my parents would do it if they had the dough.

Now, if during all of this and the excuses my sister was wearing designer clothing, shoes, and on her 16th birthday got a new car, I think I would have a reaaaaaal hard time with that.

That’s what’s happening here. I’m tired of hearing, “I’m sorry son, we just don’t have the money” when my brat sister is walking around this place looking like Paris Hilton.

Felivear you are nr1 poster, all your analogies I’ve read over the past months fit so well lol.

I don’t think the question here is what the devs have accomplished or how difficult it is for them to get new content out.

but a question of resources
and why the PvP team is not getting them.

we need to talk to that guy, not the developers

I understand that SPVP doesn’t make as much $ because of population.
thus giving less incentive to develop it, but isn’t spvp population also anets fault who’s going to play a part of the game that didn’t even have the most basic features during the first year.

all anet it did was make a safe bet with pve, because it made more sense from an investment vs income point of veiw

it’s time to make the mists free to play because it’s starting to feel like that’s the only way to bring players back, and for anet to turn a profit on it

Kline.9561:

I don’t think the question here is what the devs have accomplished or how difficult it is for them to get new content out.

but a question of resources
and why the PvP team is not getting them.

we need to talk to that guy, not the developers

I understand that SPVP doesn’t make as much $ because of population.
thus giving less incentive to develop it, but isn’t spvp population also anets fault who’s going to play a part of the game that didn’t even have the most basic features during the first year.

all anet it did was make a safe bet with pve, because it made more sense from an investment vs income point of veiw

it’s time to make the mists free to play because it’s starting to feel like that’s the only way to bring players back, and for anet to turn a profit on it

I agree. I’ve personally suggested a number of ways to generate Money from the PvP community, so that Anet can be justified in spending more money in improving PvP.

- Make a PTR, and charge money for access if necessary to justify the cost.
- Allow players to spend glory to acquire gems when they are already spending real money – Just an example, let players exchange 10k glory for 800 gems for every 10 dollars in real money they spend in the store – this gives players something to do with their glory when they are already giving Anet some cash.
- Just be up front and honest with us – if PvP is a monetary sinkhole, come out and say it. Talk with us, lets figure out a way to turn that around.

I didn’t start this post just to put GW2 down, I want it to work. Let us help you ANet, its obvious you need it.

Spend money for helping test something on PTR?

Krayiss.4926:

Spend money for helping test something on PTR?

If necessary, yes. Remember, Anet doesn’t charge a monthly fee like most other games. a PTR might be an expenditure that their budget doesn’t support. I’ve got no problem giving Anet 5 dollars a month for PTR access if it leads to faster, better tested, more balanced changes to PvP.

evilapprentice.6379:

Krayiss.4926:

Spend money for helping test something on PTR?

If necessary, yes. Remember, Anet doesn’t charge a monthly fee like most other games. a PTR might be an expenditure that their budget doesn’t support. I’ve got no problem giving Anet 5 dollars a month for PTR access if it leads to faster, better tested, more balanced changes to PvP.

This is like why CoD releases a new game every year.. people are willing to pay for silly things.

There’s a ton of testers already… according to Jon but what does that mean, 20 ?

Darnis.4056:

evilapprentice.6379:

Krayiss.4926:

Spend money for helping test something on PTR?

If necessary, yes. Remember, Anet doesn’t charge a monthly fee like most other games. a PTR might be an expenditure that their budget doesn’t support. I’ve got no problem giving Anet 5 dollars a month for PTR access if it leads to faster, better tested, more balanced changes to PvP.

This is like why CoD releases a new game every year.. people are willing to pay for silly things.

There’s a ton of testers already… according to Jon but what does that mean, 20 ?

If you’re pleased with the Job that the testers are currently doing, good for you. Most of the community isn’t.

It isn’t silly to offer help. I’m asking that ANet do a better job in PvP developement, which is a direct boon for me (as I enjoy PvP). I don’t mind offering something small (5 dollars a month) to make that easier for them, because it could potentially result in a better situation for us all – Anet making money from PvP, faster, better, more balanced, more stable PvP updates for the community. The comparison to CoD is asinine, and a poor attempt to discredit the idea.

evilapprentice.6379:

Darnis.4056:

evilapprentice.6379:

Krayiss.4926:

Spend money for helping test something on PTR?

If necessary, yes. Remember, Anet doesn’t charge a monthly fee like most other games. a PTR might be an expenditure that their budget doesn’t support. I’ve got no problem giving Anet 5 dollars a month for PTR access if it leads to faster, better tested, more balanced changes to PvP.

This is like why CoD releases a new game every year.. people are willing to pay for silly things.

There’s a ton of testers already… according to Jon but what does that mean, 20 ?

If you’re pleased with the Job that the testers are currently doing, good for you. Most of the community isn’t.

It isn’t silly to offer help. I’m asking that ANet do a better job in PvP developement, which is a direct boon for me (as I enjoy PvP). I don’t mind offering something small (5 dollars a month) to make that easier for them, because it could potentially result in a better situation for us all – Anet making money from PvP, faster, better, more balanced, more stable PvP updates for the community. The comparison to CoD is asinine, and a poor attempt to discredit the idea.

Paying for the chance to debug/bugtest is asinine, it discredits itself no need for comparisons.

discredit the idea.

Its not their game model they wouldn’t add it in the 1st place. Let alone them saying they are already working on PTR I believe. But good idea, although I dont think they need more money for us helping test.

Darnis.4056:

evilapprentice.6379:

Darnis.4056:

evilapprentice.6379:

Krayiss.4926:

Spend money for helping test something on PTR?

If necessary, yes. Remember, Anet doesn’t charge a monthly fee like most other games. a PTR might be an expenditure that their budget doesn’t support. I’ve got no problem giving Anet 5 dollars a month for PTR access if it leads to faster, better tested, more balanced changes to PvP.

This is like why CoD releases a new game every year.. people are willing to pay for silly things.

There’s a ton of testers already… according to Jon but what does that mean, 20 ?

If you’re pleased with the Job that the testers are currently doing, good for you. Most of the community isn’t.

It isn’t silly to offer help. I’m asking that ANet do a better job in PvP developement, which is a direct boon for me (as I enjoy PvP). I don’t mind offering something small (5 dollars a month) to make that easier for them, because it could potentially result in a better situation for us all – Anet making money from PvP, faster, better, more balanced, more stable PvP updates for the community. The comparison to CoD is asinine, and a poor attempt to discredit the idea.

Paying for the chance to debug/bugtest is asinine, it discredits itself no need for comparisons.

If we were paying a monthly subscription, that would be true. We don’t, so it isn’t.

When a game that requires a monthly subscription releases a PTR, that is exactly what you’re doing – paying to debug/bugtest. It’s worked well in the past for other games. This isn’t just something for the developers, it results in a better game for you and me, the players – If Anet has to pay for hosting/housing/support on a PTR, it isn’t asinine to ask us to help shoulder the cost, it’s simple economics, since they don’t charge us to play on a month to month basis.

@ evil apprentice
thanks, glad you think so too

I can come up with some ideas on this thread if it would help $pvp

1.make skins that are targeted at spvp, maybe give you special emotes when your in the mists
2. Focus on selling skins that are class specific with there own class represented themes. that way you’re selling more than just three skins
3. if you had a free to play client for spvp you could present the option for them to buy the full retail client.
4. sell tickets to watch ingame streams of anet hosted season turnaments.
5. sell compendiums that represent a player’s favorite sponsord team.
6. don’t hand out glory boosters like candy sell them !
7. allow players to purchase an consumable item that allows them to mail PvP items to their friends as a gift.
8. sell emotes the only trigger after a stomp.
9. sell templates
10. bring back zishen keys
11. charge entry fees for tournaments

and these are just a few things I can think of.
it takes money to make money and with wildly sucsessful games that profit off of being free to play and esports I think its crazy that anet doesn’t do this

Evan Lesh.3295:

The updates exclusive to PvE and PvP are hard to compare. Almost all PvP features require very intensive programmer and server support like solo queue, matchmaking, custom arenas, spectator mode, etc. Living story updates leverage existing technology to advance the story and expand content with new mobs, crafting recipes, dungeons, etc. PvP has few areas expandable by content; the main feature being maps which we release regularly. Balance updates affect all parts of the game and don’t come out for one any faster for one than the other.

This is crap.

Yeah, SURE, it’s more extensive programming. But you have like 70 people doing Living Story.

How many on PvP? 2. Maybe 3. Yeah. ANet wants GW2 as an eSport.

Evan Lesh.3295:

The updates exclusive to PvE and PvP are hard to compare. Almost all PvP features require very intensive programmer and server support like solo queue, matchmaking, custom arenas, spectator mode, etc. Living story updates leverage existing technology to advance the story and expand content with new mobs, crafting recipes, dungeons, etc. PvP has few areas expandable by content; the main feature being maps which we release regularly. Balance updates affect all parts of the game and don’t come out for one any faster for one than the other.

Why can’t we have both QoL fixes and balance patches? At least the QoL improvements would make HotM not seem so depressing. QoL fixes shouldn’t even require a good programmer, just a good game designer. The slums of Tyria gg

So we call the Dev on some complete bullkitten answer and then he stops replying. We have been Anetted.

evilapprentice.6379:

If this were true, every single MMO in the world would be in the same position.

What? Pull your head out of the sand and consider what other MMOs even do: multi-month release schedules that often times bring nothing new to the table in terms of technology.

So yes, every single MMO in the world is in the same position.

evilapprentice.6379:

It seems to me ANet puts priority on PvE and not PvP, because this isn’t the case for every single MMO in the world. Direct comparisons aren’t allowed, but not so long ago I played a game where PvP content/balancing patches were heavily discussed/tested with the communities help, and they were fairly successful, and it didn’t even take an entire year.

If the game you are referring to is the one I am thinking of, then it wasn’t a MMO. Moreover, entirely successful is a joke of epic proportions because the game was utterly destroyed balance wise at the year mark.

evilapprentice.6379:

Your statement also doesn’t touch on how PvP has seen 3 new maps in 12 months – by your own argument, that’s an easy addition.

Easy to make with dev tools? Yes.
Easy to make balanced? No.

Its like you’re arguing for arguments sake…

evilapprentice.6379:

Furthermore, as it’s been brought up a hundred times on these forums, and PTR would do wonders for both the Dev’s AND the community.
A) A place to test balance/content changes that don’t screw up the game for everyone
B) A chance to allow players to playtest your changes FOR FREE.
C) It frees the team from the responsibility of guaranteeing everything works from the getgo – the team could be more adventurous with balance changes and content changes because if it doesn’t work out, there’s still time to tweak without kitten ing off the entire community.

Zzzzzz….. the game we must not mention didn’t have a PTR.

s.7421:

So we call the Dev on some complete bullkitten answer and then he stops replying. We have been Anetted.

The answer was actually valid, people just made idiotic statements afterwards.

While it might be a case of chicken and egg for PvP, I still think the first egg should be laid by ANet personally and then people would gladly follow ANet like chickens.

Ultimately, it is up to them to take the game in the direction they want – and from what I have seen in the last SotG, they have a few good ideas in the pipeline so I’m “cautiously confident” (and of course, I’m sure they receive suggestions and listen to them).
All in all, still having fun with the game though (in the various game modes).

Vena.8436:

evilapprentice.6379:

If this were true, every single MMO in the world would be in the same position.

What? Pull your head out of the sand and consider what other MMOs even do: multi-month release schedules that often times bring nothing new to the table in terms of technology.

So yes, every single MMO in the world is in the same position.

evilapprentice.6379:

It seems to me ANet puts priority on PvE and not PvP, because this isn’t the case for every single MMO in the world. Direct comparisons aren’t allowed, but not so long ago I played a game where PvP content/balancing patches were heavily discussed/tested with the communities help, and they were fairly successful, and it didn’t even take an entire year.

If the game you are referring to is the one I am thinking of, then it wasn’t a MMO. Moreover, entirely successful is a joke of epic proportions because the game was utterly destroyed balance wise at the year mark.

evilapprentice.6379:

Your statement also doesn’t touch on how PvP has seen 3 new maps in 12 months – by your own argument, that’s an easy addition.

Easy to make with dev tools? Yes.
Easy to make balanced? No.

Its like you’re arguing for arguments sake…

evilapprentice.6379:

Furthermore, as it’s been brought up a hundred times on these forums, and PTR would do wonders for both the Dev’s AND the community.
A) A place to test balance/content changes that don’t screw up the game for everyone
B) A chance to allow players to playtest your changes FOR FREE.
C) It frees the team from the responsibility of guaranteeing everything works from the getgo – the team could be more adventurous with balance changes and content changes because if it doesn’t work out, there’s still time to tweak without kitten ing off the entire community.

Zzzzzz….. the game we must not mention didn’t have a PTR.

---

kitten s.7421:

So we call the Dev on some complete bullkitten answer and then he stops replying. We have been Anetted.

The answer was actually valid, people just made idiotic statements afterwards.

I would agree with you if pvp actually had more up dates. This game was advertised as THE pvp mmo do you remember that? All the play us at pax/games con we are a legit pvp game made for pvpers! Ever heard of the game Rift? The game Rift had more pvp updates in its first year then gw2 had in its first year and Rift straight up said we would like this game to be more pve focused. But they still put out just as much pvp content as pve content. They didn’t ignore part of their player population and they gave the community straight up answers about balance and the state of the game not cryptic clues.

Rift, Warhammer, and DAOC all games with better testing/communication then a-net and all much smaller budgets. Those happen to be the games I played for the last 10 years before GW2. I have gotten used to devs taking ideas to the community first and getting feedback then just inviting a few select people to test and then sprining changes on everyone. It is the best way period. Patchnotes made available beforehand for all to discuss. We don’t even need to get into a dedicated testing server although that is needed first. What the hell is wrong with saying here is what we are thinking of doing? I’m sure Vena will have some kitten answer to that.

I want spvp to have a new game mode like deathmatch,you get killed you stay down till the match is finished,there ya have it, then we can start useing spectatormode also automaticly while waiting dead on the floor till the match is finished.

sry for the crap english.

kind regard’s

Derps.7421:

I would agree with you if pvp actually had more up dates. This game was advertised as THE pvp mmo do you remember that? All the play us at pax/games con we are a legit pvp game made for pvpers! Ever heard of the game Rift? The game Rift had more pvp updates in its first year then gw2 had in its first year and Rift straight up said we would like this game to be more pve focused. But they still put out just as much pvp content as pve content. They didn’t ignore part of their player population and they gave the community straight up answers about balance and the state of the game not cryptic clues.

Actually it was advertised as an MMO they want to make into an e-sport; they certainly fanned the hype flames but many of them were self induced based on legacy. The question then becomes what does one define as an update: content vs. features. PvE is filled with content updates but there’s little in the way of content that can actually be added to PvP. PvP is almost entirely feature driven with the occasional map coming in as content.

I never played Rift, so it would be hard of me to say or even compare properly.

Kwll.1468:

Warhammer… with better testing/communication then a-net and all much smaller budgets.

Hahaha, no. Not a smaller budget. Comparable maybe, smaller no.

But I will give you that it was certainly balanced in that they only released one class: Brightwizard. A game can’t possibly be imbalanced if there is only one class, after all.

Kwll.1468:

What the hell is wrong with saying here is what we are thinking of doing? I’m sure Vena will have some kitten answer to that.

Actually I agree with this because it was how they worked in GW1.

I only have kittens for people who spout nonsense. Kittens for stuffing down said spouts. Death to all kittens!… and spouts!

Vena.8436:

butch.8136:

Invest one time in a bunch of programmers and get the infrastructure solid. After that we don’t require bi-weekly updates.

I have this odd feeling that you’ve never done any programming work in your life.

Sry, if you took that so seriously. It’s more the thought behind it. And no, I’m not gonna explain myself. I’ve wasted enough effort.

butch.8136:

Sry, if you took that so seriously. It’s more the thought behind it. And no, I’m not gonna explain myself. I’ve wasted enough effort.

Its not really about seriousness, its just a non-starter solution. Ten coders won’t necessarily finish something in less time than one coder. In fact, since most people have personal coding nuances, the more people you cram on a project the more confusing it gets to have them try and mesh their work.

What we need isn’t more coders, we just need a more robust and active balance team. I love seeing Karl show up on sPvPTV but he needs to do that on the forums from time to time with a list of “Here are our plans and possible patch notes!” And they really need to roll out updates on balance a bit more frequently than they do, or at least open up aforementioned “patch notes” plans.

Vena.8436:

butch.8136:

Sry, if you took that so seriously. It’s more the thought behind it. And no, I’m not gonna explain myself. I’ve wasted enough effort.

Its not really about seriousness, its just a non-starter solution. Ten coders won’t necessarily finish something in less time than one coder. In fact, since most people have personal coding nuances, the more people you cram on a project the more confusing it gets to have them try and mesh their work.

I forgot that Microsoft has never hired or fired an employee in the entirety of their existence – you’ve pointed out to me that it would surely be impossible to bring in new people, familiarize them with your code base, and have them work on separate issues collaboratively in an effort to speed up production.

I certainly hope my company never goes under, because apparently my Degree in CS will become worthless, because who would ever hire me? It’s not like I can be introduced to a working product, given a specific task, and work collaboratively on it. There exists no method to do so, and certainly no tools to aid in the process.

That 1 guy they have making all the coding changes in the game must be exhausted.

On a more serious note, of course there’s the option to bring in some people on a temporary basis to make some much needed fixes to the basic infrastructure of the game, the question is, can ANet justify the expense?

I cannot believe people are this ignorant about this after a year of release. The twice a month content they get (PvE) is living story. Anet just builds onto existing technology, as Evan said, so it can come out quicker. A lot of the PvP community wants Spectator Mode, Solo queues, and a refined matchmaking system. The only programming intensive feature (I would think) PvE is getting, and is just coming out is their LFG tool.

Everyone in this thread needs to figure it out, seriously.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

I cannot believe people are this ignorant about this after a year of release. The twice a month content they get (PvE) is living story. Anet just builds onto existing technology, as Evan said, so it can come out quicker. A lot of the PvP community wants Spectator Mode, Solo queues, and a refined matchmaking system. The only programming intensive feature (I would think) PvE is getting, and is just coming out is their LFG tool.

Everyone in this thread needs to figure it out, seriously.

Seeing as you’ve figured this out, perhaps you can work on your reading comprehension next – the point isn’t “Why isn’t something coming out for PvP every 2 weeks”, it is “Why is the disparity so glaringly huge”.

If we want to ask the really hard questions, we can ask why the game was launched with so many basic features missing. Why is any patch day where PvP is affected guaranteed to come with issues that affect players ability to play? How is it Anet has left the current hated meta in place for 2 and a half months and counting? Why is matchamking, the very heart of competitive PvP, still performing poorly? Why did it take them nearly an entire year to figure out how to make 1 class out of 8 (Warrior) playable? I could keep going, but why bother.

We can turn this into a “Why did Anet launch GW2 with all the tools needed to expedite PvE updates but absolutely no infrastructure to do so with PvP” if you like, but that’s not very productive.

evilapprentice.6379:

Vena.8436:

butch.8136:

Sry, if you took that so seriously. It’s more the thought behind it. And no, I’m not gonna explain myself. I’ve wasted enough effort.

Its not really about seriousness, its just a non-starter solution. Ten coders won’t necessarily finish something in less time than one coder. In fact, since most people have personal coding nuances, the more people you cram on a project the more confusing it gets to have them try and mesh their work.

I forgot that Microsoft has never hired or fired an employee in the entirety of their existence – you’ve pointed out to me that it would surely be impossible to bring in new people, familiarize them with your code base, and have them work on separate issues collaboratively in an effort to speed up production.

I certainly hope my company never goes under, because apparently my Degree in CS will become worthless, because who would ever hire me? It’s not like I can be introduced to a working product, given a specific task, and work collaboratively on it. There exists no method to do so, and certainly no tools to aid in the process.

That 1 guy they have making all the coding changes in the game must be exhausted.

Yeah,but they wont bother with an investment like that if it potentially yeilds no profit. they need more reasons than (gw2 pvp has so much potential) I take anet as a company that only looks at numbers

So cut off the head of the snake, somone needs to show Anet a presentation of why should focus on spvp and how it can be profitble because no one’s going to take a one year old MMO and focus on a sinkhole

Evan Lesh.3295:

Letting you guys know I’m still reading this thread. This topic comes up a lot and there is usually very little feedback simply because its so hard to explain without going over all of game development.

As for the sibling analogy, clothes are clothes. It doesn’t translate well to the different kinds of updates we release. I think relating to computer updates could be better:
Two siblings. One enjoys buildings and tweaking computers, and using it to its full extent to play the latest and greatest games. The other only uses the computer as a means to do homework, play casual games, social network, etc. The first always wants the latest parts, but they’re very expensive and the parents can only afford them on special occasions. However, lots of software for the other sibling may be easy to acquire because its cheap or free, and readily available. Even though the first sibling still wants software too, it’s relatively useless without those shiny expensive parts. In the end, one sibling gets more presents than the other without knowing how different they really are. I hope that makes sense :P

I do want to say again that while I’ve been very harsh with my opinion here, I do still appreciate you taking the time to read and respond to the thread as a whole. I might not be happy with the current state of PvP, but I’m not just here to bash the game – I’d like to see it reach a better place, and hopefully soon.

evilapprentice.6379:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

I cannot believe people are this ignorant about this after a year of release. The twice a month content they get (PvE) is living story. Anet just builds onto existing technology, as Evan said, so it can come out quicker. A lot of the PvP community wants Spectator Mode, Solo queues, and a refined matchmaking system. The only programming intensive feature (I would think) PvE is getting, and is just coming out is their LFG tool.

Everyone in this thread needs to figure it out, seriously.

Seeing as you’ve figured this out, perhaps you can work on your reading comprehension next – the point isn’t “Why isn’t something coming out for PvP every 2 weeks”, it is “Why is the disparity so glaringly huge”.

If we want to ask the really hard questions, we can ask why the game was launched with so many basic features missing. Why is any patch day where PvP is affected guaranteed to come with issues that affect players ability to play? How is it Anet has left the current hated meta in place for 2 and a half months and counting? Why is matchamking, the very heart of competitive PvP, still performing poorly? Why did it take them nearly an entire year to figure out how to make 1 class out of 8 (Warrior) playable? I could keep going, but why bother.

I will skip the questions for now.

I don’t really see a point too what this was about, you said it was about the disparity, its not that big. The content they are getting is something that is existing technology. The stuff we want is technology they have code, implement, test, and then test for release. Not to mention any kind of artwork.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Letting you guys know I’m still reading this thread.[…]

Only that in our case the parents are a multi-million company that has advertised a game as the new messiah of PvP and it does so little for it, while it delivered almost nothing at start(outside of the awesome combat mechanics)..

You say you can’t afford the expensive things, but you are not even giving SPvP community a candy once a month.

You talk about how hard giving shiny stuff is, but the balance is a whack-a-mole since start because you have a handful of people working on it and giving out huge changes after months, while they should be tweaking every week.

You rejected deathmatch mode from the game launch with lame excuses and now we see that more than half of the Competitive community(WvW+PvP) craves it.

On top of that you don’t want to build a 5×5 room with a few pillars in the middle again, with bad excuses, and you want to add “Secondary mechanics to make it more intresting” while nobody asked for it.

Just give that to the people so you can spend more time working on bigger stuff.

Also start listening to the community for once, all of you, wvw pvp pve teams.

Nobody asked for bloodlust buff, nobody asked for dhuumfire,nobody wants everything to be that easy in PvE.

The fact that you build things from scratch without letting your players know is bad in so many ways.
Say " Guys we would like to do this and it will work like this, it will probably take lots of months to complete it , what do you think of that?"

For the sake of everything that’s good, start communicating with us.

I am not the type of person that enjoys bashing others, but I really had to get that out of my chest, sorry if I offended anyone, really, it was not my intention.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Letting you guys know I’m still reading this thread. This topic comes up a lot and there is usually very little feedback simply because its so hard to explain without going over all of game development.

As for the sibling analogy, clothes are clothes. It doesn’t translate well to the different kinds of updates we release. I think relating to computer updates could be better:
Two siblings. One enjoys buildings and tweaking computers, and using it to its full extent to play the latest and greatest games. The other only uses the computer as a means to do homework, play casual games, social network, etc. The first always wants the latest parts, but they’re very expensive and the parents can only afford them on special occasions. However, lots of software for the other sibling may be easy to acquire because its cheap or free, and readily available. Even though the first sibling still wants software too, it’s relatively useless without those shiny expensive parts. In the end, one sibling gets more presents than the other without knowing how different they really are. I hope that makes sense :P

thanks for staying with this thread Evan

but I don’t think the problem is us under standing the process behind your priorities between PvE and PvP. we understand if one is easier than the other and caters to a much larger population

the issue is
- some just see the (it’s easier) as an excuse to not put resources on SPVP
- some blame the lack of resources on SPVP is the reason for it grave state
- some like me want to talk about how to open up spvp to be more profitable opportunities giving your company more incentives to forward resources to spvp
- some just want to blame the developers for past patches.
- some think that the answer is just hiring more coders

personally I believe a lot of issues can be resolved if the Mists went free to play, and if the devs ask more questions on the forums

it may harsh but its just
natsos, just nailed it on the head

natsos.3692:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Letting you guys know I’m still reading this thread.[…]

Only that in our case the parents are a multi-million company that has advertised a game as the new messiah of PvP and it does so little for it, while it delivered almost nothing at start(outside of the awesome combat mechanics)..

Now you are just using hyperbole.

I might have a lot of issues with this game, but at least try not to make up stuff. Hyperboles don’t get response and if you are an elementalist you don’t get any response, but I digress.

Arenanet never claimed guild wars 2 PvP will be the messiah of PvP, it is better that most MMORPG PvP, but they never claimed it would be the messiah or anything on a divine or godly level. They have said they aim to be an esport, notice how they never set a timetable or even if it will actually happen, because they is not certain it will ever be that way.

Now, Arenanet might be a multimillion dollar company, but it is a company out to make money, which means resources are limited by that aka they don’t have infinite resources especially on a format that has very little ways to generate income. Again, resources are never infinite other considerations need to be made AND if Arenanet can afford to spend more money they need a reason to justify it and pvp doesn’t generate enough income to justify it, it just seems to suck it.

@silvermember
I agree
Thats why I beleive the forums shoulds talk more about this

And the devs should come in the spvp forums and go. hey! What kind of stuff would you guys like to see in the cash shop.

silvermember.8941:

Now you are just using hyperbole.[…]

I understand that, and I might have to clarify my post a little bit.

I used hyperboles on purpose because sometimes they help people shake their minds(sometimes it does the exact opposite, it’s a risk I had to take).

Now for the facts, indeed ANet never claimed that GW2 PvP will be the messiah of PvP, but it was advertised for something better than what it was.

How things look to me, one of the big problems here is the rushing and the excitement on “Major” things. I will try to back this up with examples.

The game at it’s launch looked like it could use some more time in order to be released in a better state. Not that it was bad, I enjoyed the 3-day head start and all my way here like no other game, but it could be twice as better.

Now for the devs, I think they get too excited(1) and rush the big things out -even if they don’t want to-and the result is quite buggy(see leaderboards) while they don’t pay so much attention to the little things that spoil this wonderful game.
(1)I understand that and if me, as a player, get excited once, I can see why a developer that helped create and builds this game can get 10 times more excited, but the mistakes could be prevented if they had more testers giving them feedback.

They wan’t to see this game in e-sports, they even made a big tournament about it but there are some great threads burried in time within their forums. Threads that talk about douzens of proffesion bugs, threads that give magnificent feedback about game mechanics and overall state of the game.

The thing is, no matter how big your releases are, when you have small issues that ruin everybody’s experience(party bugs, rune bugs,trait bugs) that big and shiny content is going to look more and more dull..

There are others issues that I could make whole threads about them and all of these things have been said already, but looks like nobody really pays attention to them, even if developers say that they are, it doesn’t feel that way.

The funny thing is, everything could be fixed if ANet could fix the communication issues.

As for the multi-million company, in order to make money off something, you need to invest to it.

Keep discussing people, it makes it feel alive.

natsos.3692:

You rejected deathmatch mode from the game launch with lame excuses and now we see that more than half of the Competitive community(WvW+PvP) craves it.

On top of that you don’t want to build a 5×5 room with a few pillars in the middle again, with bad excuses, and you want to add “Secondary mechanics to make it more intresting” while nobody asked for it.

Personally, I don’t want deathmatch.
Also I do not want classes to be “purely” balanced in 1 v 1 (but roughly equivalent in power/usefulness). Might as well copy and paste all classes if that’s what you want.

The games that did this before generally ended up with washed out classes.

evilapprentice.6379:

I forgot that Microsoft has never hired or fired an employee in the entirety of their existence – you’ve pointed out to me that it would surely be impossible to bring in new people, familiarize them with your code base, and have them work on separate issues collaboratively in an effort to speed up production.

My statement was with regards to “Just throw man power at it!” and my answer was: “Its not always easy or helpful.”. You then wasted your time to tell me that it is possible provided you do a bunch of stuff that take time. No kitten sherlock, but if you’ve noticed a lot of people here have no concept of patience or time.

This is what it amounts to right now:
“We want stuff now!
- But that takes time.
“Hire more people to do it now!”
- But that would take time to train and then still take time to make it.
“You suck! Stop being understaffed!”