Guild Wars 2

Will this feature ever be implemented? Or rather, is it even being considered?

When you actually sit down and consider the demons that would come with displaying every player’s MMR, you may begin to agree that it shouldn’t be shown.

It could always be toggled. I just want to know my own MMR generally.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

When you actually sit down and consider the demons that would come with displaying every player’s MMR, you may begin to agree that it shouldn’t be shown.

Other games show it.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

When you actually sit down and consider the demons that would come with displaying every player’s MMR, you may begin to agree that it shouldn’t be shown.

yeah carebears gonna get flamed

…and i see nothing wrong with it, bads are getting flamed in pretty much any competitive game (And way more than here)….that’s how things work

But that’s not the reason why mmr is hidden…it’s probably just because it’s gonna prove how bad matchmaking actually is, right now you can just feel it but being able to prove it would be way worse for anet

morrolan.9608:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

When you actually sit down and consider the demons that would come with displaying every player’s MMR, you may begin to agree that it shouldn’t be shown.

Other games show it.

Yes, and other games have tons of toxic flame wars going on about how someone else has less rating than you. I remember back when I played Heroes of Newerth, every match would start with people checking each other’s rating and start talking trash immediately. Everything the lower ranked players said would be met with “l2p you trash” or “shut the kitten up, my rating is higher than yours”.

Showing mmr would only be drama inciting and it’s a good thing it’s hidden.

It would be really useful to tell apart the people who know their stuff and the people who pretend to, though.

ReaperJr.5967:

It would be really useful to tell apart the people who know their stuff and the people who pretend to, though.

Rating doesn’t necessarily show that though. One can have really bad rating but still be a good player, just like how one can have great rating but have no clue about how to play.

Ehhh, not really. Mmr is a good indicator of how proficient you are at PVP. Especially since it takes into account winrate and matchups.

Just like in other games like dota or lol, the ‘mmr doesn’t mean anything’ argument is usually used by bad players who have low mmr.

I didn’t say that it doesn’t mean anything. I said that it doesn’t NECESSARILY show how good or bad a player is.

Someone that ends up with bad teammates and/or against pre-made groups could easily have a rather bad rating, despite being a rather good player. And someone that tends to end up in good groups or against bad groups can have good rating despite not being especially good him/her/itself.

Yeah but those are usually outliers. Regardless of how bad your luck is, if you play enough, your mmr will be an accurate measure of your skills.

Not trying to argue here, just stating the facts. This argument has been made many times across all games with mmr. In the end, if you end up with many games where ‘your teammates are bad’, you’re usually the problem, not your team.

For instance, there was this bunker guard the other time I was matched with who insisted on contesting mid regardless of whether we (my teammates and I) were there and when he died he kept flaming us and calling us noobs and that we should follow him since he can support us.

TL;DR: Mmr is an accurate indicator of your skills if you play enough. This is the general consensus after much debate across all games with mmr.

Aye, if you play enough. But how will you know if the MMR you see is from someone who have “played enough”?

Display mmr only after a certain rank? Or even implement calibration matches? That’s the solution imposed in other games.

A few examples of how MMR can be inaccurate, even over a long course of time:

• A team of very high MMRs only ever que together. Maybe sometimes they pull in a sub who is of their relative skill level. They have great success as a five man premade and all accrue MMR ranges within the top 100 listed MMRs in Guild Wars 2. This happens over the course of one year. Now if they had spent that time in that year, never playing in a premade and only ever doing solo ques, would their MMR ranges ever become so high? No and there are many reasons.
• Another team plays for a year. This team is lead by a strong captain with a strong understanding of conquest. He has a couple wingmen that he can rely on who are also strong players. However they also run with two other players “every night” who are not as strong of gamers. They are good at listening but they just can’t keep up in combats. Due to the two players who lose virtually every single 1v1 they engage and are a liability in team fights in general, this team is limited with it’s capability to rise in MMRs. Even though the 3 stronger players are easily good enough to play in a tournament team.
• A completely new player makes friends with a veteran team. He has no idea what he is doing but the team captain of this team gives him a meta build, he slaps it on and gets in the TS3 and starts listening to where he should go and what he should do in conquest matches. His MMR rating begins to rise because the system logs every win he is getting with this team, against much higher older veteran MMRs. Could this player leave the good team and keep up in this MMR range as a solo que? No, he couldn’t.
• A bunker pushes far at the start of a match. He gets there early enough to neutralize the point. Two enemy players engage him on the far point for the entire match. The point remains neutral, he kills neither of the enemies but the enemies don’t kill him either. He tells his team: “stay at home and mid and benefit from the 4v3 in your favor”. His team ends up winning but at the end of the match, that bunker will have 0 points and the MMR system will credit him the least amount of MMR gain out of everyone on his team, even though he was carrying that team hard.

The morale of the story is that your MMR is highly dependent on the other players that you play with. If you run five man premades, your choices in teammates will highly dictate the success of your MMR rating. Does this variance in MMR rating necessarily dictate skill level? No, it is not an accurate gauge of one’s own personal skill level. It does not care about your personal skill level. It cares about whatever circumstances that you are playing with, that are allowing you to beat certain teams and other players. Through these circumstances, “whether you are a noob running with a veteran team or a veteran running with a noob team” it is rating the success of your circumstances, not your personal skill level. Of course over the course of time, personal circumstances can change and a person’s MMR could dramatically rise or drop.

This is why MMR really doesn’t need to be displayed. It simply is not always an accurate gauge of one’s own personal skill level and the last thing we need is another inaccurate stat listing for people to boast about, right next to personal score at the end of a conquest match or leaderboards based on play frequency not skill.

A bunker pushes far at the start of a match. He gets there early enough to neutralize the point. Two enemy players engage him on the far point for the entire match. The point remains neutral, he kills neither of the enemies but the enemies don’t kill him either. He tells his team: “stay at home and mid and benefit from the 4v3 in your favor”. His team ends up winning but at the end of the match, that bunker will have 0 points and the MMR system will credit him the least amount of MMR gain out of everyone on his team, even though he was carrying that team hard.

i know this is just an example but it shows how terrible the current system is at determining participation in a match.

Totally true i play wow in 2900 mmr in 3v3 and rise 2 friends to 2400 but on personal skill my friends can reach 1800 alone mmr a lot of time is bs

I don’t think that’s how mmr works. Mmr isn’t awarded according to how many points you get during match. Your gain or loss is predetermined at the start of a match according to your matchups.

Just like how your kdr doesn’t affect your mmr gain/loss per match in mobas.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

When you actually sit down and consider the demons that would come with displaying every player’s MMR, you may begin to agree that it shouldn’t be shown.

Lets just ban everything in life that could possibly cause people to once in awhile be mean to each other. It’s genius. Or else we could be adults deal with the occassional kittenery and understand it would be nice to be able to know what we are dealing with in game skill wise.

Garrisyl.7402:

Showing mmr would only be drama inciting and it’s a good thing it’s hidden.

Ok, but how is that any different than people telling other that ranger is trash in every game mode. We should just not allow other players to see each other classes.

Eval.2371:

Ok, but how is that any different than people telling other that ranger is trash in every game mode. We should just not allow other players to see each other classes.

That’s an awfully forced argument. And anyways, how is the existence of trash talk an argument for inciting more trash talk? If anything, the existing toxicity towards certain classes, builds and players should draw you a picture of the hell that would break lose with in-match rank badges.

Garrisyl.7402:

Eval.2371:

Ok, but how is that any different than people telling other that ranger is trash in every game mode. We should just not allow other players to see each other classes.

That’s an awfully forced argument. And anyways, how is the existence of trash talk an argument for inciting more trash talk? If anything, the existing toxicity towards certain classes, builds and players should draw you a picture of the hell that would break lose with in-match rank badges.

Yes your right it is very forced(but there is truth behind it). MMR toxicity is the same kind of talk as dungeon or WvW elitism. Just pvp does not have a measurable scale. PvP is going to get a scale via leagues anyways regardless if they show mmr which will cause the toxicity your so afraid of. The issue is anet reinforces these kinds of attitudes by allowing them to continue either by not saying no you can’t do that or by continuing to ignore common valid complaints and not fixing problematic classes.

Toxic or not we cannot move forward without information. Things like matchmaking can’t be improved without a scale and we can’t give valid feedback on; simply because we don’t understand the process.