Guild Wars 2

As the things are, it’s time to remove the division jumps from the meta achievements and find a different method of awarding tickets. A ticket for each win, and bonus for consecutives seems just right.

That way many can stop complaining about how the MM system is kitten (it is), and can progress for the backpiece. And those like myself who seem to be stuck in a division (or mmr hell as some refer to it) can forget about the NEED to get to a higher division because of the meta cheevos. There will still be the pain that League Professional is, but I can live with that.

why on earth would they remove the need to cross to another division for the reward, you might as well say crossing divisions shouldnt matter. The point of the backpiece is to do well in PvP not the other way around and you do well in PvP by crossing divisions.

Also even if they remove the crossing division achievements how would that automatically make people stop complaining about matchmaking? 5 players will still be matched against 5 players.

What is most confusing about this is you think profession achievement is more tolerable than the crossing divisions achievement. How exactly is forcing people to play classes they may not be used to right? not everyone plays multiple classes at a high enough level to take them to ranked, in fact it is generally advised you stick to one or two classes.

People tend to bypass this by switching classes when the win is guaranteed which makes the whole achievement pointless.

I have a feeling yours is an unpopular opinion…. I hate the current matchmaking with a fiery passion, however, those players that struggled through it are going to shoot this idea down.

I am stack in ruby, i can understand what you mean but i find it wrong. PVP is competitive, not every one can arrive everywhere, otherwises there is no more competition . In a way or another, if i am stack in a point it is becouse this is near my skill level . I hope, if i will have time ( i work so i have not much time for playing ) to arrive at diamond , but if i stop in ruby, i don’t take it as an illness …. it is a game … Season 2 was really broken and meaningless imho, with really terrible loss strike or win strike, without much sense but now i find matchmaking good. there are matches in which i win 500-50 or i lose 50-500 but they are a really small part of the match i play. The major part of them are about 400-500 or so , which means that there is a game. Season 2 was really another trash history but now i find it much much better .

The trouble is that the system isn’t placing people in “there skill level.” It’s a dynamically unstable system that encourages streaks.

The fact that divisions can’t be lost is the only reason we see a population in the middle divisions. Otherwise it would eventually be amber and legendary only.

It’s not right to demand division crossings, then do your best to prevent them. This is more or less what the matchmaker is doing.

the ticket requirement for the precursor wings is already low enough to be considered a joke.

I’ve earned enough tickets so far to make 2 precursors wings AND a mini fancy llama.

Ithilwen.1529:

It’s not right to demand division crossings, then do your best to prevent them. This is more or less what the matchmaker is doing.

If you put it like that then I can agree with you, however, that still doesn’t remove the problem with the system in general.

Ragion.2831:

why on earth would they remove the need to cross to another division for the reward, you might as well say crossing divisions shouldnt matter. The point of the backpiece is to do well in PvP not the other way around and you do well in PvP by crossing divisions.

Also even if they remove the crossing division achievements how would that automatically make people stop complaining about matchmaking? 5 players will still be matched against 5 players.

What is most confusing about this is you think profession achievement is more tolerable than the crossing divisions achievement. How exactly is forcing people to play classes they may not be used to right? not everyone plays multiple classes at a high enough level to take them to ranked, in fact it is generally advised you stick to one or two classes.

People tend to bypass this by switching classes when the win is guaranteed which makes the whole achievement pointless.

Well, crossing divisions should not matter reward wise and it does not matter at all if you started in at least Season 2 since thanks to the safety nets, you are guaranteed to get to Ruby. That’s 4 jumps, out of 10, so with 3 seasons, you are golden. Now if you were not interested in it before, but got into it in S3, then you have to get to Diamond in S3 and S4 as well. At this point I feel that quite unrealistic, as I feel I’m not good enough skillwise, and that reflects my matches as well. Most of the time we are just free pips for the opponents. I would not care about that if that would not restrict me from progression. That’s why this league system is flawed. I would not care if I was stuck in mid Sapphire for example as I felt that was the level that reflected my skill the best, okay teammates, challenging opponents, and no 9+ lose streaks and occasionally felt that I was able to make a difference between winning and losing. But with the current reward system, that’s out of the question as I was guaranteed to get to ruby, where I feel way less useful for my team.

Some complain about the matchmaking as is restricts progression with low to average mmr and that it’s a downward spiral, as your winrate gets below 50% you’ll get the higher mmr opponents so your get you winrate even lower along with your mmr. But what would anybody care about that, if progression was based on the individual wins, not lucky winstreaks? Yes, this progression would be significantly slower but more reliable as well as opposed to what we have now.

Some complain about the matchmaking due to low quality matches and blowouts and the like. If division jumps would not be mandatory and losing divisions would be a thing, then that problem would solve itself eventually, as everyone would get to the divisions where they belong. But that level of an overhaul to the system in the middle of the season is highly unlikely that’s why I came up with a smaller change.

Well the profession achievements can go for all I care. I just said I can live with them as I’ll get the desired wins with them eventually. Unfortunatley I cannot determine when we are going to win for sure so I can just switch classes for cheevos. Not that I win very often ever since I got to Ruby.

Slight correction, afaik, if you started in S3, you need to hit legendary in both S3 and S4
10 division jumps needed. (T1:1. T2:2, T3:3, T4:4, Total:10)
amber—1→emerald—2→sapphire—3→ruby—4→diamond—5→legendary *2

Darknicrofia.2604:

the ticket requirement for the precursor wings is already low enough to be considered a joke.

I’ve earned enough tickets so far to make 2 precursors wings AND a mini fancy llama.

I’m happy for you, really. Most likely I’d be at the same position if I took part in leagues from S1. Also getting to legendary once should be enough tickets to get the precursor wings and the certificate of support and that’s 6 jumps. Getting to ruby in 2 seasons is 8 jumps, so that should be enough tickets as well.

What we are talking about is the Hymn of Glory and how the division jump requirement with this matchmaking system is making it practically unobtainable for many.

Edit: I stand corrected, getting to Ruby is just 3 jumps, and getting to Legendary is 5, so the situation is even worse for many.

cascaid.8379:

Slight correction, afaik, if you started in S3, you need to hit legendary in both S3 and S4
10 division jumps needed. (T1:1. T2:2, T3:3, T4:4, Total:10)
amber—1->emerald—2->sapphire—3->ruby—4->diamond—5->legendary *2

It seems you are right, I overlooked that on my end. I think I’ll just quit then and wait for the other method to acquire the backpack (yes, I like the skin that much). Thanks for clarifying.

Again, the point of the reward is to do well in PvP, it is a reward for doing well in PvP and you do well in PvP by crossing divisions. If you are not crossing divisions, you are not doing well and therefore do not deserve the reward. That is what reward means

The bigger problem here has nothing to do with matchmaking but you just dont care about getting better at PvP. This league system brought in many people who didnt normally play PvP that means they will be matched against the people who were there long before league which i imagine was not that many compared to now. So there are many more newbs than veterans which is why blowouts happen when one side gets more veterans.

Also, gw2 is marketed towards casuals, there are probably many more casuals than hardcores. Now i dont think casuals will spend 5 hours a day getting better at their class for whatever it is worth

The only problem i see (without guessing) with the match making system is the comp matching. Anet’s system assumes that all the classes are made equal and have no problems putting two thieves on a team or two revs against a condi heavy team. This is why i think Anet has picked the dumbest way possible of creating classes

Ragion.2831:

Again, the point of the reward is to do well in PvP, it is a reward for doing well in PvP and you do well in PvP by crossing divisions. If you are not crossing divisions, you are not doing well and therefore do not deserve the reward. That is what reward means

The bigger problem here has nothing to do with matchmaking but you just dont care about getting better at PvP. This league system brought in many people who didnt normally play PvP that means they will be matched against the people who were there long before league which i imagine was not that many compared to now. So there are many more newbs than veterans which is why blowouts happen when one side gets more veterans.

Also, gw2 is marketed towards casuals, there are probably many more casuals than hardcores. Now i dont think casuals will spend 5 hours a day getting better at their class for whatever it is worth

The only problem i see (without guessing) with the match making system is the comp matching. Anet’s system assumes that all the classes are made equal and have no problems putting two thieves on a team or two revs against a condi heavy team.

I beg to differ. First of all, this is a video game, not the Olympics. Not everyone can/is going to get to Legendary. I’m sure I won’t. Not without help. No, I did not mean a carry team as in help.

Are we sure we want to put = between getting better and reaching Legendary? I’m sure I’m at least a bit better since started and stuck in Ruby, yet I have nothing to show for it. Today I won most of my 1v1s as a warrior (the class I’m the least familiar with in PvP), held points against 1v3 till reinforcement arrived (we both died in the end, but at least we tried), yet we lost. If my team could not use the advantage that 2v3 or 2v4 was, I don’t know what else I should have done. I consider myself below average still, so I did not meant to indicate that I’m good or anything and I did not want to bash my teammates either. Just trying to make a point that being good or bad does not seem to guarantee getting to legendary or being stuck in sapphire.

Btw where exactly did i say I did not want to get better? I’m happy to get better and would appreciate the help in doing so, I’m just not interested in the competitive level of getting better.

GW2 PvP is just too hard to grasp from the casual point of view. Especially compared to GW1 PvP. Also have fun improving when all you can do is to die on point due to the CC/stun fest that this game is.

Class stacking and unbalanced comps, I agree, but that’s supposed to be worked around by us, players by switching classes. At least in theory.

In my opinion they should either stick with division based matchmaking or MMR based matchmaking. Not this fusion of both. The reason being that because of how the pips work up to ruby the MMR range of players in early divisions is not stable. (which means in some divisions it is too narrow, resulting in lopsided games, and in some too wide).

Also, ranked MMR should not tank if I decide to skip a season, if I play in a season and then decide to quit maybe, and it definitely should not decay off-season. If I decide to skip a season entirely my ranked MMR should not hit a rock bottom or to put it another way it should not be worse than the ranked MMR of a brand new account at PvP rank 20.

Not everyone is going to get to legendary, so people who do dont deserve to be rewarded for it?

Ofcourse you are going to win 1v1s as a new warrior, that is the problem with warrior right now, warrior is the easiest class to win with.

Crossing divisions means you play better opponents and playing better opponents makes you a better player so yes the climb to legendary division makes you a better player

Your logic of not rewarding people who are able to play at a higher level than others is baffling to me. This is something that isnt even unique to GW2

Lol i give up.

Well, it’s a PvE reward, that you obtain in PvP, so…

Where exactly I said that peeps in Legendary should not get rewarded? If you started in S1 you don’t even need to get to Legendary like ever, so your logic if flawed. Getting to Legendary was never a requirement. Well it is if you started this season (I did and I am all to blame for it), but that’s a different story.

Warrior is the easiest class yet I feel much more comfortable and effective as a DH (no traps), which is considered to be trash in ranked as it is countered by mostly every other class. As I said, I’m nowhere near good.

Well my perception is that being able to play at the higher level IS the reward for many hardcore PvP-ers. I may be wrong though. Not to mentioned that they are/were already rewarded in being faster at getting the backpack (if they were interested). I would not mind giving them extra incentive, gold. minis or whatever for reaching/playing in Legendary, but I don’t think this was ever the topic of my original post.

Ithilwen.1529:

The trouble is that the system isn’t placing people in “there skill level.” It’s a dynamically unstable system that encourages streaks.

The fact that divisions can’t be lost is the only reason we see a population in the middle divisions. Otherwise it would eventually be amber and legendary only.

It’s not right to demand division crossings, then do your best to prevent them. This is more or less what the matchmaker is doing.

This is the problem in a nutshell. The system is fundamentally flawed and IMO very frustrating. I can’t imagine that it’s doing much to encourage people to play GW2 PvP.

Remove the requirement for division jumps, give tickets for winning matches or playing three matches in a day (better), and turn the entire pip system into a “prestige” system; win a match get a pip, lose a match lose one for all divisions and allow people to drop divisions.

After reading all the thread i arrive to a point in which i can in part agree with you. The problem here is not the matchmaking or the division system. It is all collateral. The real problem is that you are forced to do PVP for getting a pve element even if you are not interested in competitive SPVP. In my opinion this is an error of design. Probably i would put a prize like 500G for hitting legendary or something like that. Otherwise another possibility would be to let people reach the same elements ( the ascension or some other legendary backitem) in pve also . There is another factor nobody said. It is really different for going up in season if you can play during the day or only in the evenings and week end. I am a worker , i am really old and i saw that i win much more matches in some hours of the day that in others , but obviously i work so i can not play when i want . I am not a top player ( i give up in diamond becouse in any case i can not play so much time to get forward ) . I play quite only pvp for fun, so for example this time i reached diamond with a not hot build but i know that for progressing in diamond i have to play meta ( scrapper for me) , but i have not fun with it so i decide to do something else ( i am not interested in pve or in achivements so for me stopping here is not a loss )

PierPiero.9142:

The real problem is that you are forced to do PVP for getting a pve element even if you are not interested in competitive SPVP.

The intention of creating The Ascension was to encourage as many people as possible to play PvP and reward people for high level play, Anything short of a legendary would not cut it

PvP and PvE are two modes of the same game not two different games. Obviously Anet will want as many people as possible to play both and the easiest way is to give rewards that can be used in both. Also the best rewards are the ones that are useful not just shiny objects.

So they had to give something that:
- did not give an advantage to PvP only players
- Something that was useful and can be used anywhere the player is to show off achievement. Since PvP doesnt use any special items it meant that what ever it was had to be useful outside PvP

The options where:
Legendary Armour – These werent created yet and they had other plans for this
Legendary Weapon – They canceled these and can already only be obtained in PvE
Legendary Backpiece/Glider – The Ascension

Why legendary grade items? because that is the only thing that would compel enough people to grind the league

500 gold would not have been a good idea. Would be terrible for the economy, would cause massive inflation.

Ragion.2831:

PierPiero.9142:

The real problem is that you are forced to do PVP for getting a pve element even if you are not interested in competitive SPVP.

The intention of creating The Ascension was to encourage as many people as possible to play PvP and reward people for high level play, Anything short of a legendary would not cut it

PvP and PvE are two modes of the same game not two different games. Obviously Anet will want as many people as possible to play both and the easiest way is to give rewards that can be used in both. Also the best rewards are the ones that are useful not just shiny objects.

So they had to give something that:
- did not give an advantage to PvP only players
- Something that was useful and can be used anywhere the player is to show off achievement. Since PvP doesnt use any special items it meant that what ever it was had to be useful outside PvP

The options where:
Legendary Armour – These werent created yet and they had other plans for this
Legendary Weapon – They canceled these and can already only be obtained in PvE
Legendary Backpiece/Glider – The Ascension

Why legendary grade items? because that is the only thing that would compel enough people to grind the league

500 gold would not have been a good idea. Would be terrible for the economy, would cause massive inflation.

500G was only an idea, i don’t do pve so i have any clue about the commercial system of GW2. In any case i get your point . I am not interested in pve items so i stopped at the ascended level of the ascension ( i don’t know the name) . What i don’t like is that you have to play , for getting the ascension , matches with many different professions ( 10 wins i think ) . It is not so much but if i put myself on a DH or on a necro or also a warrior or ranger i made my teams lose as hell only for having that achivement. I am not interested in them so i ignore them , but i think it is a real clue .

For sure, like always this studio has 3 bad ideas for every 1 good idea. Profession Achievement needs to go but who knows if that will ever happen.

Ragion.2831:

For sure, like always this studio has 3 bad ideas for every 1 good idea. Profession Achievement needs to go but who knows if that will ever happen.

The idea of those achievements is to force people to try spvp. It is a good thing imho, they should only change a little thing :
Or you can put Profession Achievement as “win X match on Y Class in unranked match” so that people try pvp , try pvp with all the classes , revamp unranked and don’t create problems in ranked .

I’m constantly hearing the words “deserve” and “entitled” but nobody has ever asked to be given anything but a fair go. People feel that this system is making these achievements far harder than is realistic, being placed in matches where the score is 500-30 is a painful experience. Then we get people saying well if you can’t carry your team you don’t deserve the rewards. My question to all of you is, why isn’t the team that’s crushing the other by 450 points versing another similar team doing the same and the low scoring guys versing each other? When people feel like they’ve been given a chance they won’t complain, not nearly as much. As it stands a lot of people are being destroyed game after game and then being told they don’t deserve kitten for being bad, it’s a wonder they don’t just leave already seeing as they have no incentive whatsoever to even participate.

PierPiero.9142:

Ragion.2831:

For sure, like always this studio has 3 bad ideas for every 1 good idea. Profession Achievement needs to go but who knows if that will ever happen.

The idea of those achievements is to force people to try spvp. It is a good thing imho, they should only change a little thing :
Or you can put Profession Achievement as “win X match on Y Class in unranked match” so that people try pvp , try pvp with all the classes , revamp unranked and don’t create problems in ranked .

You dont need 3 characters to try spvp

The problem with profession achievement is it encourages people to play classes they arent good with in ranked. You know how in fighting games they say if you want to be really good you should stick to one character, well there is some truth to it. It applys to anything that is heavily dependant on your reflexes like GW2 (for the most part).

For this game it is generally reccommended that you only play max of two classes, i personally can only play two before my reflexes start getting mixed up. Some play more but those alts wont be as good against people who stick to their mains, unless you are playing warrior. That is why for ranked profession achievement is bad,

People get past this by switching to their alt if the match is a guaranteed win. This just makes the achievement pointless. I think there are people who still dont know this and then just make and play with alts. This probably contributes to bad team fights even in higher divisions.

PierPiero.9142:

Otherwise another possibility would be to let people reach the same elements ( the ascension or some other legendary backitem) in pve also .

So you mean like Ad Infinitum being a legendary back piece that is already exclusive to PvE?

Ragion.2831:

PierPiero.9142:

Ragion.2831:

For sure, like always this studio has 3 bad ideas for every 1 good idea. Profession Achievement needs to go but who knows if that will ever happen.

The idea of those achievements is to force people to try spvp. It is a good thing imho, they should only change a little thing :
Or you can put Profession Achievement as “win X match on Y Class in unranked match” so that people try pvp , try pvp with all the classes , revamp unranked and don’t create problems in ranked .

You dont need 3 characters to try spvp

The problem with profession achievement is it encourages people to play classes they arent good with in ranked. You know how in fighting games they say if you want to be really good you should stick to one character, well there is some truth to it. It applys to anything that is heavily dependant on your reflexes like GW2 (for the most part).

For this game it is generally reccommended that you only play max of two classes, i personally can only play two before my reflexes start getting mixed up. Some play more but those alts wont be as good against people who stick to their mains, unless you are playing warrior. That is why for ranked profession achievement is bad,

People get past this by switching to their alt if the match is a guaranteed win. This just makes the achievement pointless. I think there are people who still dont know this and then just make and play with alts. This probably contributes to bad team fights even in higher divisions.

If you put achivements in unranked there is no problem