Divisions and Carrying

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

One of the contentious exchanges in this forum featured someone asking if s/he should be expected to carry bad teammates in order to advance tiers. In a word: Yes. Here’s why. (You can skip to the summary if you’re afraid of words.)


Major League Baseball teams have minor-league affiliates at the Triple-A (AAA), Double-A (AA), and Single-A level (yes, there’s also rookie ball and such, but we’re keeping this simple), in descending order of proximity to the majors. Within each division, there will be a broad range of players. Some guys will be sure-fire major-leaguers just getting their reps; some guys will have one great minor-league season and get a brief shot at the majors; some guys will never make it out of the low minors.

Being one of the better players in AAA might net you a call-up, but it doesn’t mean you are actually able to perform at the next level. You might just be a really good AAA player.


In baseball, even one dominant player can’t affect his team’s chances of winning as much as in a sport where the top player spends most of the game on the floor.

If you put an NBA player on a high school basketball team, they would win every single game. If you put that player on a college team, they would at least win most of their games; they could go undefeated if the rest of the team was good. Put the guy in the D-League, and his team will likely win the majority of its games. Put him back in the NBA, and he’ll be at the mercy of the rest of the roster. Why? Because he is no longer so much better than everyone else that he can carry.


I’ve played a fair number of games. I’ve seen very good players and very bad players and I’ve studied both. The biggest difference between the levels of play is the speed at which everything happens. Better players make decisions faster, react faster, and push their buttons faster than lesser players.

When a player carries, s/he is so much better than the opponents that it generally doesn’t matter how weak his/her teammates are. Every fight will be over very quickly. It doesn’t matter if teammates are making bad rotations, dying, disconnecting; the player carrying through that division is good enough to overcome all of it. If the carry is consistently impossible, then that player does not actually belong at a higher level.


I spent most of this season in Gold 3, which I consider to be fair because I think of myself as slightly above average. Back when I played a lot more, I might have been good enough to stick in Platinum, but I simply don’t play as much and I’ve grown rusty. I rely on my understanding of rotations and matchups to compensate for my degraded mechanical ability.

I am Gold, where for most people “proper rotations” means key-turning in a circle. You will see some decent players, but a lot of the gameplay is downright awful. My inability to carry myself into Platinum is my inability. I am good enough to be one of the better players in Gold; I am not good enough to carry bad teammates to the extent that I would move up. Is it sometimes frustrating? Sure, but I know that if I were to be advanced a division, I would be one of the weaker players, and that’s not much fun, either. It’s on me to improve or to accept being a pretty fish in an ugly pond.

Summary: There is a broad range of ability in any given division. If you are so much better than the competition that you can carry your team to victory sufficient to climb tiers, then you belong in the higher tier. Once you are at a level that you cannot carry, then you have in most cases found where you belong. You might be a good player for your tier, but you’re still in the right tier.

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

ok, you had your turn.
now quick everyone, hit it with a stick and call it bad names.

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Vicariuz.1605

Vicariuz.1605

so what are ur thoughts on some one in my situation

soloq to legend 3 times this season, currently at gold 3 (because it religiously puts people who are allergic to winning on my team OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER the same people, THE SAME LOSSES)

it legitimately doesnt matter that I AM WINING 1V2 AND 1V3 because my team IMMEDIATELY leaves capped points to 3 or 4 man home, and has NO IDEA where they should be on the map to begin with.

asking for them to win ANY 1v1 is like asking for god to descend from heaven.

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

Addendum: One of the reasons a lot of people are skeptical about the complaints posted in the forum is as follows, and I mean this in full seriousness and honesty as a person who’s spent enough time to become at the least a solid scout of talent.

When there is a person throwing a temper tantrum and insulting its teammates — in teamchat to those teammates, or in mapchat or say-chat for the benefit of the other team — in almost every single case, that person is the weak link costing the team the game.

I’m not kidding. I’m not saying this to make people feel better or worse. It’s what I’ve seen over thousands of games. The corellation between raging and sucking is nearly 100%. So when you come to forums and rage about your teammates sucking, a part of us is forced to consider that you might well be the problem.

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

so what are ur thoughts on some one in my situation

soloq to legend 3 times this season, currently at gold 3 (because it religiously puts people who are allergic to winning on my team OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER the same people, THE SAME LOSSES)

With only that information, I couldn’t say for certain. No matchmaking system is perfect, and there will be exceptions, but I don’t want everyone to start telling themselves that they’re the exceptions.

One of the issues is that the season is limited. Over an infinite number of games, most everyone would find his/her level. In a shortened season, one bad day can drop you through the floor and you might not have the time or inclination to regain your “true” rating. Given that mmr is always changing, you’ll tend to hover around where you belong, but streaks can catapult you higher or plummet you lower. Again, it’s not perfect, but it’s working pretty well.

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

Well i am stuck in silver. I climb but like a snail in solo Q.
When i pair with a gold player playing against other gold teams, till now i won all of those matches. So how does that fit ;-).

(edited by Wolfric.9380)

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Sismis.5390

Sismis.5390

in this post you sure sound like a rager, and ragers lose.

Can you blame him?This season i only played 6 games cause friend asked me on his acc. From what i seen people just are terrible and worse in terms of skill.One game i had a guy openly asking for gold to trow a match.Another one is AFK is still a thing and kittens still being what they are.Personaly on my acc i stayed away from this season.Cause from past games i played where they removed after 6 days testing solo – duo quene and with result that it made pvp worse.

I was feeling a bit screw-loose so I…checked myself in.

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

the thing is, while you might think you’re playing perfect games you might actually be throwing matches w out even knowing it.

regardless, getting really salty is just going to make you tilted. so, sit there frothing at the mouth at your computer chair with your blood pressure rising if thats how you want to spend your time, but don’t expect a congratulatory remark.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

(edited by choovanski.5462)

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Reaper Alim.4176

Reaper Alim.4176

the thing is, while you might think you’re playing perfect games you might actually be throwing matches w out even knowing it.

regardless, getting really salty is just going to make you tilted. so, sit there frothing at the mouth at your computer chair with your blood pressure rising if thats how you want to spend your time, but don’t expect a congratulatory remark.

I agree with this guy. If you are having such game breaking problem that are making you want to put your fists through your monitor. Then it’s time for you to either go somewhere else or just like many of the current GW2 PvPer’s just not care about having quality or competitive matches. Just PvP to grind shiny gear and back pieces.

Yes GW2 is the only Triple A quality casual MMORPG on the market. But it just sounds like. Casual quality PvP is just causing you more heartache then laughter.

TL:DR

Either find a way to make GW2 fun instead of frustrating for your self, or go somewhere else that is fun for you.

I maybe a troll with class.
But at least I admit it!
PoF guys get ready for PvE joys

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Vicariuz.1605

Vicariuz.1605

heres a great example, i just went against a double top 25 duo, when i am t3 gold. WHAT THE kitten? then 2 games later, THEY GET PUT ON THE SAME TEAM AGAIN, u can check my match history and lycarous stream.

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

heres a great example, i just went against a double top 25 duo, when i am t3 gold. WHAT THE kitten? then 2 games later, THEY GET PUT ON THE SAME TEAM AGAIN, u can check my match history and lycarous stream.

I have the key to this frustrating lock of yours.

I’ve found the light to illuminate your dark days.

The mystery of what’s causing all your frustrations is about to be revealed.


You’re NA.

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Vicariuz.1605

Vicariuz.1605

heres a great example, i just went against a double top 25 duo, when i am t3 gold. WHAT THE kitten? then 2 games later, THEY GET PUT ON THE SAME TEAM AGAIN, u can check my match history and lycarous stream.

I have the key to this frustrating lock of yours.

I’ve found the light to illuminate your dark days.

The mystery of what’s causing all your frustrations is about to be revealed.


You’re NA.

WORRRRRDDDDDD dude bloosh goosh my minddddd

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: dukenukem.9072

dukenukem.9072

Honestly this is the best pvp season I’ve played. After a few matches I placed in silver 2 (where I feel I belong), and have been there all season. Only recently I’ve been slowly climbing up through silver 3. Overall I’m happy where I’m at because anything over silver sounds like a bunch of people who feel they are the sole cause of wining matches

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Levijeh.9643

Levijeh.9643

so what are ur thoughts on some one in my situation

soloq to legend 3 times this season, currently at gold 3 (because it religiously puts people who are allergic to winning on my team OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER the same people, THE SAME LOSSES)

it legitimately doesnt matter that I AM WINING 1V2 AND 1V3 because my team IMMEDIATELY leaves capped points to 3 or 4 man home, and has NO IDEA where they should be on the map to begin with.

asking for them to win ANY 1v1 is like asking for god to descend from heaven.

You mean you were in legend 3 times? I wonder how the system placed you higher than others in the first place (maybe because of your high win ratio, which doesn’t have anything to do with the new system though), now you say you’re in gold t3. According to your last gameplay in your channel, I think you’re in the right place dude, maybe you’re a little better than average gold 3 players, but higher platinum I really doubt it.

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: alchemyst.2165

alchemyst.2165

This would be true, except the current system only gives the illusion of personal accountability.

Regardless of whether you’re solo or duo queue, you’re still on a team with 3-4 other people. It’s a team game, and the current system basically says “Well since you’re solo that means you’re responsible for the entire game.” Which isn’t true. Yes, good players should be able to carry. But there comes a point when matchmaking screws you anyway.

One good solo player in a team of bads vs a team of average/good players. It happens. Some things you simply can’t carry, especially depending on class, and that’s the truth.

However, if the game actually acknowledged this, then yes, what you said would be valid. But the system isn’t as personal as it thinks it is.

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: OnlyFear.9165

OnlyFear.9165

Not only is this post self righteous in it’s own right, it’s incredibly inaccurate. If you’re attempting to climb through plat, doing so is not an easy task. How you’re paired and matched is incredibly important and will impact your possibility on winning.

Case in point, there’s so many games where we land a bronze and a silver on the team while were 1700s. Other team mostly upper 1600s- high 1700s. They have 1 silver.

It’s not matched properly, never has. Your post is caput.

OnlyFear The Last Pride [EviL]. Top 10 GW1 GVG tournament holder 6 years running.

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Solstace.2514

Solstace.2514

I disagree with several points OP made. The difference between good and bad players isn’t speed. That may separate closely matched people but a far bigger issue is knowledge. When yo use certain skills, what attacks to dodge, what enemy to target, what fights to take or avoid, where to go on the map to have biggest impact, etc.

It’s extremely difficult “to carry” matches at gold or higher. There are some match ups that are impossible for players to win no matter their skill. However, from my own experience, there are many matches I lost where I could have contributed more. They were close and winnable. Good players just perform better in those scenarios. They win the favorable match ups but also the closer games.

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Burjis.3087

Burjis.3087

I zisagree wiv the OP. I for eczample is so good. Very good. VEry better than this game. I can 1v6 every game and win all my fightz, but my team is alway sooooooo bad I am stuk in bronze! But I shud be in legendery.

Everlasting Sacred Path [ESP] (www.espguild.com)

Divisions and Carrying

in PvP

Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

is asking for a verbal abuse session only necromancers enjoy

how you know this

snipples

tro-lo

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE