Guild Wars 2

Evan Lesh.3295:

Looking at your game history over the last few days, there were only two games you lost where the enemy team had a larger party than was on your team.

made my day, I love to see QQers smashed to the ground

Roe.3679:

Evan, could you also look at my games? And my mmr? I know I won 2 games against teams with more grouped players, but one of those groups was just bad – landslide win. But I’ve also lost a bunch of games against grouped players. Or so it seems.

I’d really like if you could check out my games from the last week or so and let me know if this is just me, or if it’s accurate. Because I don’t enjoy playing games as a solo player against high level tournament players grouped up with their high level friends.

Hey seriously could you do this? I’m like 3-10 this week and I know a lot of those losses were when the other team had more teamed up players. Just lost another match with full pugs vs. duo queue and a top player on their team. How this matchmaking is working is beyond me, so I’d love an explanation.

I just came from a games vs 5 turret engis. They admitted being OP and said they didn’t care. While I have no problem with turret engis as they stand, I do have a problem with profession stacking and outright exploitation.

I think premades should be banned for PvP generally or should be confined to team queue.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Hunter.4783:

However why do i even have to WORRY about being matched vs premades while queuing solo?

The fact that im getting premades on both sides means that there are more flaws in the system, not less. Its just that for these past few games i happened to get the “better” premade or it would be more losses than that.

Why do you have to worry?

If a 4+1 versus a 4+1 is an even match, why shouldn’t we make it? There is no right or wrong answer here, just curious as you seem to not think this is a good idea.

I am more concerned with the future. When Stronghold and Conquest are merged it will add another layer of frustration for solo queuers.

Then you will have HoT and non-HoT players. Elite Specializaztions vs. players with non-elite specializations all in the same queue and some will be premades and some will not be. This issue is only going to be compounded. We are doing a test season prior to a wholly new mode being released that will be part of the same queue as the one we are testing but sans Stronghold to add to the data pool for the test season!

When HoT comes out, not only will I have to hope that it’s all solo queuers like me, I will have to hope they own HoT(so they have access to elite specializations) and I will have to hope I get the game mode I desire to play at the time.

There was a lot of unnecessary hyperbole in the OP’s post but that doesn’t change the thrust of his argument. We want split queues for solo/team queue.

Evan, I am not bothering to look on other threads, just this one:

Just lost another match with full pugs vs. duo queue and a top player on their team. How this matchmaking is working is beyond me, so I’d love an explanation

and

Iason Evan.3806:

There was a lot of unnecessary hyperbole in the OP’s post but that doesn’t change the thrust of his argument. We want split queues for solo/team queue.

and

I think premades should be banned for PvP generally or should be confined to team queue.

and

Now, personally, i’m all for bringing solo/team queue back, I think that things were much better that way.

and

+Unranked
+Ranked team
+Ranked solo
Remove Hotjoin
Keep customs
All problems solved.

and

I want to see something like in GW1 arenas where when you enter randoms and your team wins you can continue as a team and after 10 consecutive wins you enter team arena.

and

Why did you guys remove solo queue in the first place? Serious question. I think it would be good to put it back in.

and

Well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. I remember having a lot more fun with the old ranked soloqueue.

QFT!

Evan, stop trying to tell us that everything is fine, that everything is good. It is not.
It’s NOT fine. Regardless of what your paper says, what you think your metrics tell you, it’s not fine.

Go play for a while and you’ll see for yourself.

Jasher.6580:

Evan Lesh.3295:

but in my opinion is far less of a problem than splitting up the community.

Well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. I remember having a lot more fun with the old ranked soloqueue.

+1. You can look up my data Evan, if you don’t believe it. I play less pvp now, because of this issue. Sure you get a lot of people in pvp that way, and you keep freedom, but at the cost of fun for solo-Qer’s. Its not just the win rate that goes tremendous down for soloQ’ers, but also the contribution factors. Lot of guilds are stubborn. Meaning they have a certain (often very specific) way they play. And if you don’t fit that pattern, the matchup is very confusing and on top of it not fun. The general accepted ‘you do X when Y happens’ no longer apply cause the guild plays differently, and all you can do is try to do what they do.

One day i have 6x the same 4x people guild that joined up with me. 5x a loss. I could be called guilty for not playing like the guild did, but then again, how can they expect me to play like them, let alone understand it? 6 matches with no fun and almost no win rate. And I barley understand the mmr thingy, but should because of this loss spike my mmr go down give me more bearable’ matchups and thus more wins as a result? or is this the ‘expected losses’ category. If so, then that’s a lot of machups where you are supposed to loose.

Either way a combo of stale builds (celestial, turrets, etc), problem listed above, and the meta moving towards teamspeak or loose (wich is not my preffered pvp playstyle) are pushing me away from the mode.

I know two players not playing pvp barely means something to Anet statistics, but still they should realize how hard the problem is they create for SoloQ by enabling ‘full freedom’ to Q joining.

Case to prove point: Stronghold Beta I played with tons of people, I suspect 95% of them were not on teamspeak and guess what: I won 18 of 21 games. This is not to brag, a lot was due to luck and the new flavor of the mode, having people play it wrong. Still as a soloQ’er I never ever had more fun then that day. The unpredictability of all players (including your team) is what makes SoloQ (true soloQ) Great. Add on that that many hardcore pvp players said teamspeak advantage is even bigger in stronghold then in conquest, and you really will have to do something in future to split up teamspeak versus non teamspeak comps. I know your answer will be ‘we can’t detect teamspeak’, no, but you can detect guild tag/party Q’ups, and as much as you don’t like it, it might be time to throw your opinion overboard when Stronghold comes.

Bio Flame.4276:

Evan, I am not bothering to look on other threads, just this one:

Just lost another match with full pugs vs. duo queue and a top player on their team. How this matchmaking is working is beyond me, so I’d love an explanation

and

Iason Evan.3806:

There was a lot of unnecessary hyperbole in the OP’s post but that doesn’t change the thrust of his argument. We want split queues for solo/team queue.

and

I think premades should be banned for PvP generally or should be confined to team queue.

and

Now, personally, i’m all for bringing solo/team queue back, I think that things were much better that way.

and

+Unranked
+Ranked team
+Ranked solo
Remove Hotjoin
Keep customs
All problems solved.

and

I want to see something like in GW1 arenas where when you enter randoms and your team wins you can continue as a team and after 10 consecutive wins you enter team arena.

and

Why did you guys remove solo queue in the first place? Serious question. I think it would be good to put it back in.

and

Well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. I remember having a lot more fun with the old ranked soloqueue.

QFT!

Evan, stop trying to tell us that everything is fine, that everything is good. It is not.
It’s NOT fine. Regardless of what your paper says, what you think your metrics tell you, it’s not fine.

Go play for a while and you’ll see for yourself.

All you are saying is people are rarely ever happy, which it is true mmo forum are never fill with happy players, so all the complaints mean very little.

If you go through the threads with the complaints it is generally filled with the same people complaining. If it was as a huge of a problem, they would be more.

Tl;Dr

Ppl are never happy. Especially on forums. Just like the op attempted to exaggerate his story to play on your emotions, a lot of ppl might be doing the same to rationalize their lost. The current system might not benefit everybody it does seem to benefit the majority.

No, I am not saying that people are rarely happy.
Do not put words in my mouth that I did not speak.

I said that many people are unhappy with the current state of queues and lack of separation of premades and soloers. Not only I’ve said that but I’ve also quoted people’s posts, stating exactly that.
That’s what I said, whatever you think I said is meaningless.

Oh, and if you believe that this current system benefits the majority, then I must believe that you are not a real competitive player (on e-games or "real"life games), in order to say such a nonsense.

Real competitive players, in any game, will tell you that it’s not fair, nor balanced nor fun to match premade teams vs PUGs. In any competitive game.

Last time I checked, ANET wanted sPvP to be an esports? Right now, it seems Evan and Josh are doing all they can to keep sPvP from being competitive…

silvermember.8941:

The current system might not benefit everybody it does seem to benefit the majority.

I don’t see any evidence for it benefiting the majority, quite the opposite, I see people who want to queue solo state their dislike for it, I see people state is has destroyed team queue and results in boring matchups for premades vs solo players, as Helseth describes in this vid – http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/4293927 and so on. (he also gives examples of it like at the match at around 39 mins & the match at 59 mins)

Iason Evan.3806:

I am more concerned with the future. When Stronghold and Conquest are merged it will add another layer of frustration for solo queuers.

+1

To be honest I don’t mind facing premades if I have competent teammates with me. Even before the merge of solo ques and team ques I queued by myself in Team arena to get better match ups, and possibly win against premades. There were some matches that I’ve won against premades with super pugs, but nowadays it is impossible because match making punishes people with winning mentality. Instead of getting good teammates, you are forced to carry bad one. Instead of ones with mentality, now you get whiners.

i like the idea and hate it sometimes

on one side its anoying beyond words when you go up against a 4-5 premade team while yorus is nothing but pugs youo know its a garanteed loss

on the other hand however this is exactly what unranked is for to practice with friends and get better or just enjoy a couple quick rounds .

the question remains though are there technical limitations or simply not enough time available to divide matches thus making solo queue random and having a party queue ?

i guess it could harm server performance as each pvp lobby would then split into 3 threads per players ontop of all the overflows

Rezzet.3614:

i like the idea and hate it sometimes

on one side its anoying beyond words when you go up against a 4-5 premade team while yorus is nothing but pugs youo know its a garanteed loss

on the other hand however this is exactly what unranked is for to practice with friends and get better or just enjoy a couple quick rounds .

the question remains though are there technical limitations or simply not enough time available to divide matches thus making solo queue random and having a party queue ?

i guess it could harm server performance as each pvp lobby would then split into 3 threads per players ontop of all the overflows

Team queue used to function the same way that both queues do now. But the difference is that you knew exactly what you were getting into, and if you wanted solo queue, you could still do that too.

Now, unless you hotjoin, you can solo queue, and get pulled against a high level organized team with pugs because the system just didn’t have a good match, and they’ve been in queue for 8+ minutes, so it widens its net to the point that it’s a landslide match.

Edit: The following is just a post based on my opinion. Though it is a subject I feel strongly on. Take note before you read that as this is not an unbiased post.
I feel like alot of people are complaining for the sake of complaining at this point. Evon came in and gave us his perspective and all we can do is tear it apart without even really attempting to see it from there perspective.

Well heres my two cents (which will be ignored).

The current system works. I don’t PvP as often as I used to but when I do I can almost always get in a game within five minutes. Before It would sometimes take me OVER TEN MINUTES. I can’t wait for that normally.

I generally end up in games that push me a good bit. But I end up winning.

Sometimes I end up in games where I get stomped. Why I got stomped doesn’t matter. It means I didn’t play as well as I could have. Regardless of whether the enemy team is grouped up or not you can STILL manage things well on the small scale if you play well.

And if they win because of communication so what. Thats a plus on their side for simply being better prepared than I was for queing alone. Props to them they did EXTRA in order to be BETTER.

As for premades never going against solo quers. Are we forgetting what plagued solo q for so long?

As of now ive had less 4v5s and 5v4s than I have had before.

And Im not running into the solo q only monster builds that were never that strong in team que but in a no communication environment annihilated people. THOSE builds were the bane of my existence and they alone managed to suck the kitten out of most of my old matches. Im sure everyone that played att remembers going into mid and hearing (oh they have a xx mesmer or hey they have an xx engi on our home) and thinking (well kitten we lost this one).

Now however I can just ask the generally two people that are in a party in my group to handle it. Quite often those two are in TS together and BAM they actually miraculously DO IT.

So a return on solo que? hell no. Ill just do what I did before and que into team que over and over again. Just like kitten near every other pvper I knew did. Because the fights there were BETTER and no one ran the solo que farming builds. Exactly like we have right now.

^ so if you can still queue into team queue if it reverted, why do you even care if solo was brought back? It’s still an option for you in that scenario.

Roe.3679:

^ so if you can still queue into team queue if it reverted, why do you even care if solo was brought back? It’s still an option for you in that scenario.

Because quite often the que times for a solo quer in team que could get horendous. And I can’t play in long sessions. More quick sporadic sessions throughout the day. But thats just a me thing.

In general for me the entire idea of going backwards to solo que repulses me. When I look at the current system and it seems like an actual step forward.

In essence. Its mostly a matter of my opinion (ill edit my previous post to stress that point) And the general feel of not wanting to go backwards to something we KNOW didn’t work.

. . . . . . . . . . Year 2029 . . . . .

We feel that mixing PUGS with Premades is a little bit unfair.

Anet Solution: Now you need to have a premade team of 5 in order to play SPVP at all.

Halvorn.9831:

How do I even know who is a premade? They do not necessarily need to share the same guild tag. Is there any other means of finding out?

You open the team roster screen and right click the enemy names. It will say either “Invite to party” if they’re a PUG, “Join party” if they’re in a group that isn’t 5/5 and neither if they’re a full 5/5 premade.

What I find interesting is that if the algorithm is working like Evan states, then why are there constant scenarios of people being in full pug vs full premade? I have been on both ends of this where I was in the full pug vs premade or I was in a premade and we were facing full pug. This seems to suggest that the pug has one or two people in it that have high MMR and are EXPECTED to carry the team.

I can tell this is what’s happening too because if I log into my other account (new) I have a win% of ~75%. The games seem pretty balanced in that I’ll be in mostly a pug group, occasionally with a duo, and the other team will be a full pug with occasionally a duo as well. As soon as I swap back over to my main account, EVERY game I’m in I go against partial to full premades while my team at most usually has a 2-3 premade but more often than not is either full pug or duo.

This to me is concrete evidence that if you are soloq and have high MMR you will more than likely be put against a partial to full premade in that your MMR will be used to fill in the gap so that your teams MMR will “match” the other teams MMR.

Concrete evidence? I don’t think Evan wants or needs that.
He just wants his precious data and interprets it as he sees fit to his ideas.

That the players hate PUGs vs Premades and that it’s silly and non-professional for a game that wants to be competitive to allow for that….well, that’s unfortunate because the algorithm can’t be wrong, can it?

It’s as if the algorithm was the actual holy grail and fun/balance/fair competition take a backseat.

In this sense the algorithm is working as intended. The lower your MMR is, the more balanced the game will be and will require less of you in respect to “carrying.” The higher your MMR is the more you are expected to boost your team to the MMR level of your competition. In reality though one person (or 2 for that matter) can not be expected to carry this hard.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is the consequence of allowing any party size to queue, but in my opinion is far less of a problem than splitting up the community.

I would much rather have one queue for my team games (or +1ing a 4-man queue) and one queue specifically for my solo games than 2 queues for the same team play.

+1. The community is still just as split as before. Very wierd logic

If you really think it’s working as intended, then either you haven’t played in a while or else you believe that the “intention” is to annoy the playerbase.

Because if the algorithm is WAI, then it’s the Designer’s vision that’s completely off the mark.

Oh No I pvp daily and I am very aware of how annoying the matchmaking is. It just seems the the algorithm is set to put high level MMR soloqers with lower lvl MMR players to bring a total team MMR up to a similar level of the competition, which more often than not ends up being some form of premade.

This is of course very annoying because as everyone has stated, this means if you are the high MMR soloqer then the algorithm puts you into a group expecting you to carry your team.

Ok, I now understand what you’re saying and I have to kinda agree with you.

Thing is, there’s no way the algorithm will ever be able to be accurate when PUGs fight Premades.
This is why Premades queues should be separated from PUG queues or if you will, there should exist a random queue and a team queue. Period.

There’s no tinkering with any algorithm that’s ever going to be able to come with “fair” and balanced premade vs PUGs mainly because a fair/balanced premade vs pug fight does not exist and will never exist.
It’s not a balanced playing field.

The sooner Josh and Evan accept that the better.

Just fought with a PUG against a premade team of at least 3 guys from same guild.
To make matters worse, they have the kittening annoyingly OP Engi Cancer build.

It wasn’t even a contest, we lost 500-200.

Naturally, I am guessing that Josh/Evan will come here and spout some nonsense about their matchmaking algorithm, saying this and that and whatnot. In the end, everything was fine and fun and balanced.

Because, hey! The algorithm > any opinion from any number of players.
Keep being stubborn, ANET!

PS – I immediatly got paired on a PUG team vs a 2+1+1+1 team. No Engi Cancer builds, thank god.
But it wasn’t a fun/balanced fight, as could be expected. 500-300. Just couldn’t deal with their 2-man coordination with a PUG team.
We could have played better or smarter, for sure. But with team agaisnt a roughly equally skilled team, the one with premades and VOIP will win most if not all the matches.
I guess Evan will come here and tell me it’s another example of how good the algorithm is and we players are dumb for not seeing it…

Bio Flame.4276:

Just fought with a PUG against a premade team of at least 3 guys from same guild.
To make matters worse, they have the kittening annoyingly OP Engi Cancer build.

It wasn’t even a contest, we lost 500-200.

Naturally, I am guessing that Josh/Evan will come here and spout some nonsense about their matchmaking algorithm, saying this and that and whatnot. In the end, everything was fine and fun and balanced.

Because, hey! The algorithm > any opinion from any number of players.
Keep being stubborn, ANET!

PS – I immediatly got paired on a PUG team vs a 2+1+1+1 team. No Engi Cancer builds, what it wasn’t a fun/balanced fight. 500-300. Just couldn’t deal with their 2-man coordination with a PUG team.
Another example of how good the algorithm is, probably….

People that qq about matchmaking in forum, its not a huge base, 60%+ of them are unskilled players that don’t accept the defeat. Teamspeak and coordination are good but in the end experience and playskill is more. Sometimes if you are a good player.. you can carry team.

For me playing solo or with group, i usually don’t have problems, hard to get a blow out.

Dude, this is sports 101.

Take 10 people. Divide them in 2 teams, with roughly the same player skill.
Give one team random builds, and let the other team pick their skills, roles, strategy and give them VOIP.

Now make them fight. Guess who wins?
Want to bet who wins?

Why do you think Soccer isn’t played with random players against real teams?
Why do you think that in sports, it’s vital to be part of a team, to train and practice every day with your team?
Why do you think there’s strategy, tactics?

Do you think those things are important in sports, but magically not here? That choosing your team composition, skills, coordinating strategy, real-time coordination through VOIP is magically NOT important in GW2?

So, it’s important in LOL, DOTA2, CS, GW1, etc, etc, etc…but not on GW2?

Get real.
This is not about how good I am nor how bad a player is.
It has nothing to do with that.

So you need to get a team bro, like me =)

And you can do esports in the real tournaments, not in ranked and unranked…
I usually only use ranked and unranked to test strategies and builds, improve my play skill.
And ALL matches seems to be fair.

PS: did you cry about a 1+1+1+1+1 vs 2+1+1+1, (500×300) really?

Problem of 1+1 vs 2 : communication possibilities.

The potential of each group isn’t the same, right before the match starts. That’s how I see it unfair

I do not like to enter these topics about matchmaking, because in the end is about the experience of the players.

Let me do only more example of things that happen to me. I have my team and other friends that only play pvp, with them i go ranked… BUT Im from a PvX guild and I like to encourage people to learn PvP. So I queue (with TS Communication) with 4 noobs and only me with experience in unranked… sometimes i can carry the game but sometimes my team mates are losing 1v1 and fights that I’m not in… no matter how much i communicate i can’t make their individual skills better.

in the other hand my experienced friends only send invites for ranked and we go extremely well without TS communication because everyone knows what they need to do, how to lockdown, how to rotate when they die or win fights…

MaXi.3642:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Looking at your game history over the last few days, there were only two games you lost where the enemy team had a larger party than was on your team.

made my day, I love to see QQers smashed to the ground

It has more to do with the skill gap and current population not being able to sustain the mmr system than having premades face solos. The interaction between the cancle and aftercast delay is still in beta — it’s great for things but not for other things — where the players that know how to play better from learning the game over those who don’t and who in turn blame it on the premades.

Some skills respect aftercast delays, while others override them… …there’s no guaranteed way to know if a skill will respect the delay of another skill or cancel it other than trying…

Why is there no guaranteed way of knowing if a skill will respect or override the aftercast?

All i have gained from this thread is people complaining about something so minuscule that the dev actually stop responding. Every other match making system works like how GW2 does. If there are not enough to warrant a full 5v5 of random players, it will begin searching for other factors, like two-three-four-five players queuing together to play with the soloers.
This is how it works and always will work.

Think about it for just one minute. I have two other people with me playing together but that is considered “premade” so then i would either need two other random players or a duo. But what if i don’t want a duo? I want two randoms. But now what if one of the randoms doesn’t want to play with a trio, or they don’t even want to play with another random? Does each player now need to fill out a list of what players they want and don’t want to play with before they queue? And since they do this they agree to wait for any amount of time before getting matched?
This is what you guys are calling the solution, and it is simply unfair to the rest of the community not playing solo.

If you are to make a solo queue, you are meaning to say that a duo, trio, or four players playing together cannot play the game at all? If four people queue they NEED one player, now that one player isn’t going to click on ranked team player simply because they didn’t queue with a team. Now a duo MUST have a trio to play else they cant play simply because they chose to play together. They have to wait for a trio to queue up around the same time as them AND they must be of similar skill/mmr level. Great now you have to wait for 20 minutes just because you are playing as a duo.

How often do you check the other team if they are queued together, then straight away get all in a hissy fit even without knowing their skill level or if they are even communicating. Did you check your team? Your teams mmr? I seriously doubt it because you are so obsessed with the other team you are the one making it a loss for sure because you just give up and complain about the match making.

What about you just stop looking for reasons to justify why you personally played bad or stopped playing and saying it is out of your control. You ended the game on 45 points. You played bad because you made a negative situation about what could have been a positive fun game.
Why didn’t you organise your team instead of just complaining about the other team having one duo?
There’s a chat system that isn’t just there to broadcast your feelings about a system that works.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Cindas.6149:

I went to the Super Bowl this year (Patriots/Seahawks)!

The Seahawks were short two people, so they pulled me and another random person in from the stadium to play with them.

We did a great job, I had fun; but the other person didn’t. He didn’t know the plays, couldn’t hear the calls well, and couldn’t keep up with the others.

. . .

This analogy assumes we don’t do matchmaking when combining the 4 players with the 1. Since parties get a slight mmr bump, the solo players is often more skilled than the others. Yes, if those 4 are using voip or party chat, the solo will be left out of some planning, but there shouldn’t be a large skill discrepancy. This is the consequence of allowing any party size to queue, but in my opinion is far less of a problem than splitting up the community.

ok, here is a suggestion since ANet always want to assume their way is the “best” way due to whatever garbage metrics you run, check to see the amount of people queuing up for Ranked play now relative to before you made this change. not only the number of players but also the amount of games played now relative to before. i am sure you will see that while overall queue times are lower, there are fewer games and players play for far shorter periods of time.

the issues i see with your current queue system is that you abandoned a solution to a problem which you are now again having to deal with. i mean it’s like you do not want to learn from your own mistakes. solo q WAS the solution to pub-stomps and people that didn’t have a team loved it, sure if had it’s problems, but it is better than the current system. i mean you guys love to tout your metrics, but i feel as though you take the wrong lessons from them; players queuing are your current lacking resource, but instead of making it easier to queue (queuing from anywhere in the game world, going up against solo-q-ers when you solo-q too, etc) you make it harder further exacerbating the issues.

saying ‘I got beat they must be premade. all my losses are because of premades’ seems to be all the rage. curse of the placebo premade.

Yo Evan, any chance you could take a look at my most recent matches (~7PM to 8:15 PM CST April 25th)?

Panites.6798:

….Every other match making system works like how GW2 does….

You’re wrong. When you do not know what the facts are, you should not speak, lest you come across as an ignorant fool.

Every matchmaking system works like GW2 does?
Wrong. Examples are plenty and healthy but I’ll just go with one – ANET.
ANET’s own game, GW1, does not have a matchmaking system like that.
It splits randoms from premades and guess what?
GW1 is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more competitive than this one.

And btw, to people that say

saying ‘I got beat they must be premade. all my losses are because of premades’ seems to be all the rage. curse of the placebo premade.

It’s not a “placebo” (And placebo doesn’t mean what you think it means, to paraphrase a movie). You probably don’t know but it’s possible to test if they are premades or not.
You ought to get your facts straight before entering a discussion, lest you spout nonsense and don’t contribute with anything constructive.

Last but not the least, why Josh and Evan persist on this…horrible idea of allowing premades vs PUGs.
Do they think GW1, a clearly superior PvP game, had it wrong? Do they believe that their predecessors were stupidly wrong and still made a PvP game vastly superior to GW2 to this day?

Just now, fought:

- I was 2+1+1+1 vs 3+2

- Now, 4+1 ( 2+2+1?) vs 2+1+1+1

Really good system! It feels fair, balanced and even odds to win/loose. Not.

I would have to agree with Hunter right now, I have soloqueued for about 8 hours today and I’ve yet to face a 5-pug team. It’s getting pretty irritating to be honnest. I’d like to soloq, there’s a reason why nearly noone went solo in teamq in the old system, being the 5th random of a 4-man team SUCKS. Especially if they’re used to playing together or have voip, you feel left out of the game. Even when you win it’s simply not fun.

PS: I don’t want be paired with a 4-man group with voip Vs a full-pug team. Dominating a game 500-100 vs pugs isn’t fun.

Our PvP dev will soon come here and enlighten you on how good and wonderful the matchmaking system is and how horrible and ungrateful you must be!
Or something like that.

Bio Flame.4276:

Panites.6798:

….Every other match making system works like how GW2 does….

You’re wrong. When you do not know what the facts are, you should not speak, lest you come across as an ignorant fool.

Every matchmaking system works like GW2 does?
Wrong. Examples are plenty and healthy but I’ll just go with one – ANET.
ANET’s own game, GW1, does not have a matchmaking system like that.
It splits randoms from premades and guess what?
GW1 is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more competitive than this one.

And btw, to people that say

saying ‘I got beat they must be premade. all my losses are because of premades’ seems to be all the rage. curse of the placebo premade.

It’s not a “placebo” (And placebo doesn’t mean what you think it means, to paraphrase a movie). You probably don’t know but it’s possible to test if they are premades or not.
You ought to get your facts straight before entering a discussion, lest you spout nonsense and don’t contribute with anything constructive.

Last but not the least, why Josh and Evan persist on this…horrible idea of allowing premades vs PUGs.
Do they think GW1, a clearly superior PvP game, had it wrong? Do they believe that their predecessors were stupidly wrong and still made a PvP game vastly superior to GW2 to this day?

you can’t tell the difference between 2+3 and a 5 man premade without asking them. all you can do is see if you can add them to party, guild tags don’t help. so Mr Rude and Arrogant here is seeing premades when they don’t exist, feeling the effects of the premade when it’s not even there (oh gosh like someone taking a placebo report me for illegal brain crimes). you think you can tell if it’s a premade, but unless they tell you or they all have the same guild tag you can’t.

other people in the thread have explained rationally why it’s important to let’s groups of 4, and just groups in general to queue together. everytime some guy complains about these premades the devs show him to be exaggerating heavily.

Evan Lesh.3295:

If a 4+1 versus a 4+1 is an even match, why shouldn’t we make it? There is no right or wrong answer here, just curious as you seem to not think this is a good idea.

False dichotomy, loaded question and gamblers fallacy, nice roll. Point is we have demonstrable history in both League of Legends and DotA that a pure solo que improves skill sorting (during S3 matchmaking bug for LoL and a decent amount of time in DotA around 2013 if i remember correctly). This does sadly lead to a more fragmented player base and longer que times, which are problems in GW2 already, thus if that is the reason, the side that represents A-net should be honest about it and we understand, but instead of accepting a point and giving a reasonable counter, trying to dodge the issue with something that is flat out shown not to be true and saying “no real answer” isnt a actual answer.

If only the theory that 5 premades never fought 5 pugs was true.. But not even.

I don’t understand how any Dev would think that this is fine and balanced.
Unless they have no clue on competition? Or they don’t even play their own game?

Just split Random/Solo queue and Team queue already.

Bio Flame.4276:

I don’t understand how any Dev would think that this is fine and balanced.
Unless they have no clue on competition? Or they don’t even play their own game?

Just split Random/Solo queue and Team queue already.

Agreed. There needs to be a place where a solo person can que into a game without premades.

I keep track and can GUARANTEE that I get matched up with bigger premade groups many more times than not. I suspect my MMR is high, so it’s probably an “intended” curse.

The real problem isn’t solos matching with premades. That’s bad enough (and pretty amazing that someone at Anet actually decided to CHANGE from the previous logical system to this system). However, if you want to know why this game has so few players, it’s because they force new players to play with experienced players.

Imagine just learning how to play basketball. Then, imagine getting matched with University of Kentucky basketball players. It doesn’t matter whether you’re against them or matched with them on your team…it’s going to be miserable for both the experienced and new player.

In the end, both groups stop playing because the experience people don’t want to play with new players, and the noobs don’t want to be constantly over their head.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Since parties get a slight mmr bump

Just I’m afraid it’s not ’slight". When I queue with full party and meet full pug team I already know the news are not good for us. Last night we lost a game 500-50 or something like this against a full pug team. Tell me again how they have been “slightly” better than us. Waiting 5+ minutes for THIS is not how you going to keep players in PvP.

So yeah, even for completely different reasons I also don’t want to meet pugs when I queue with a team. The most entertaining matches are when we meet a full party at our skill level or slightly better. Slightly. Some days exactly this happens and then we have good fun with close and intense matches, so I know it’s possible. Then we have a day like yesterday when everything goes down and I can’t understand why. Probably you’d be so nice to tell me?

If you are only playing for fun, you have hotjoin and unranked. If you are serious about being competitive you have ranked and tournaments. We really don’t need anything else. Removing premades from unranked makes no sense and will fix nothing.

What we need is matchmaking improvements.

Aberrant.6749:

Bio Flame.4276:

I don’t understand how any Dev would think that this is fine and balanced.
Unless they have no clue on competition? Or they don’t even play their own game?

Just split Random/Solo queue and Team queue already.

Agreed. There needs to be a place where a solo person can que into a game without premades.

That’s not going to change much. People will still come here and complain at losing matchs with bad setups against OP setups. That’s actually the real problem, facing a premade is only a small detail..

I’ve played plenty of solo queue games( although not many this season), and there’s minimal difference between a premade or a full pug with 2 engis 2 eles 1 guard, yourself having a team such as mesmers necros and rangers.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Hunter.4783:

However why do i even have to WORRY about being matched vs premades while queuing solo?

The fact that im getting premades on both sides means that there are more flaws in the system, not less. Its just that for these past few games i happened to get the “better” premade or it would be more losses than that.

Why do you have to worry?

If a 4+1 versus a 4+1 is an even match, why shouldn’t we make it? There is no right or wrong answer here, just curious as you seem to not think this is a good idea.

For me is a very bad idea . Solo should be vs solo only. The small premades in both teams do not make the match fair as rarely are equal . I always play solo and for me you have ruined the pvp for solo players by all that mix and match. For unranked and ranked