Guild Wars 2

Who is losing to unmanned turrets? If you see turrets with no engy around, alert your team to destroy him because he’ll go down in seconds. Then take the point yourself.

I hope they make thieves useless. Can teleport around, has too many easy no-brain evade frames. Too much burst and blind. I don’t really want to learn to fight them, I hope they just make them useless. Auto attacks proccing two dps sigils causing brainless burst? How can anyone think this is even okay?
/s

Real point being. There’s so much passive stuff people don’t realize is passive, and instant abilities that in reality don’t take a lot of thinking to actually do. I’m not saying thief is particularly easy, but a lot of their basic mechanics are and are just as ‘cheesy’ if you really consider how much they get that is 100% instant and procs of high damage without much consideration.

Manuhell.2759:

As i already explained before, it wouldn’t make sense for them to disappear either. Wherever the engineer is, he’s there just with the rifle if the turrets are all somewhere else. And if he’s killed, the turrets are gone as well. He already takes a risk in doing so, beside making the protected point weaker – as if he can’t kitten the situation, he can’t be able to properly use the overcharges either.

It actually makes sens what your saying, if it wasn’t for the possibility that there cool-down is backup & they can just simply re-summon there turrets to there new position to help out any trouble that occurs. but if there’s none. He’s capping with a rifle in hand wile his turrets protects & does severe damage at the other cap. :S

I agree I do not see much reason to nerf turret engineer it brings something interesting and funny to PVP. I do not play or plan to play one just do not feel that they are problem. Is it easy spec to play oh well engineer need one, other ones are not that easy trust me

Only spec which can frustrating at times are hambows with their stuns except that I am happy

Manuhell.2759:

Define “trait heavy dependency”. Cause in turret’s case we’re talking about at least 4 or 5 traits, eventually with multiple grandmaster traits involved.
Also, the other professions have two weapons (or four attunements). They are balanced differently to start with. If you want the engineer to be like them, give also the same advantage they all share – a second weapon. Cause the toolbelt alone doesn’t warrant its lack.

Defining trait heavy are some/all of the skills completely useless without some/all of associated traits/seeming balanced around the traited versions as oppose to the baseline skill.

Vieux P.1238:

Manuhell.2759:

As i already explained before, it wouldn’t make sense for them to disappear either. Wherever the engineer is, he’s there just with the rifle if the turrets are all somewhere else. And if he’s killed, the turrets are gone as well. He already takes a risk in doing so, beside making the protected point weaker – as if he can’t kitten the situation, he can’t be able to properly use the overcharges either.

It actually makes sens what your saying, if it wasn’t for the possibility that there cool-down is backup & they can just simply re-summon there turrets to there new position to help out any trouble that occurs. but if there’s none. He’s capping with a rifle in hand wile his turrets protects & does severe damage at the other cap. :S

Turret cool downs don’t start until the turrets are destroyed or removed. An engineer away from his turrets is being weak in two locations.

Turrets are actually surprisingly hard to destroy even when the engie isn’t there. It really makes no sense. And when the engie is there, it’s very hard to do anything about him. I understand that the automatic response is going to be L2P, but really. If someone was to objectively make a list (no one here for sure) about what builds beat other builds, things that turret engies are good against and what they are bad against would likely be the most skewed list.

Geikamir.6329:

Turrets are actually surprisingly hard to destroy even when the engie isn’t there. It really makes no sense. And when the engie is there, it’s very hard to do anything about him. I understand that the automatic response is going to be L2P, but really. If someone was to objectively make a list (no one here for sure) about what builds beat other builds, things that turret engies are good against and what they are bad against would likely be the most skewed list.

Turret engies are actually bad against a LOT of builds because how much their immobility can be exploited. They’re just good at holding a point, especially if the point has a decent amount of LOS and high ledges to place turrets.

ronpierce.2760:

Geikamir.6329:

Turrets are actually surprisingly hard to destroy even when the engie isn’t there. It really makes no sense. And when the engie is there, it’s very hard to do anything about him. I understand that the automatic response is going to be L2P, but really. If someone was to objectively make a list (no one here for sure) about what builds beat other builds, things that turret engies are good against and what they are bad against would likely be the most skewed list.

Turret engies are actually bad against a LOT of builds because how much their immobility can be exploited. They’re just good at holding a point, especially if the point has a decent amount of LOS and high ledges to place turrets.

The entire purpose of Conquest is holding points. So they happen to be very good at the most important thing.

Geikamir.6329:

ronpierce.2760:

Geikamir.6329:

Turrets are actually surprisingly hard to destroy even when the engie isn’t there. It really makes no sense. And when the engie is there, it’s very hard to do anything about him. I understand that the automatic response is going to be L2P, but really. If someone was to objectively make a list (no one here for sure) about what builds beat other builds, things that turret engies are good against and what they are bad against would likely be the most skewed list.

Turret engies are actually bad against a LOT of builds because how much their immobility can be exploited. They’re just good at holding a point, especially if the point has a decent amount of LOS and high ledges to place turrets.

The entire purpose of Conquest is holding points. So they happen to be very good at the most important thing.

Yes but that’s not really what you said. But also, that still holds true. In many cases they have a lot of counters. They just so happen to do well against A few standard melee roamers, especially things like thieves who are supposed to be able to kill people and decap. Seems like a good check if you ask me. Because thinks like mesmers, Rangers, hambow, some medi guards and the like actually do quite well against them. They’re not OP, they have huge downfalls and little flexibility.

More times than not what people are really upset about is the ease of play. People get enraged when an AI unit kills them. I think that’s the bigger issue. They have plenty of weaknesses and downfalls and work just like any other rock paper scissor. Scissor is complaining about rock being OP and everyone is complaining that a certain rock is too easy to throw.

ronpierce.2760:

Geikamir.6329:

ronpierce.2760:

Geikamir.6329:

Turrets are actually surprisingly hard to destroy even when the engie isn’t there. It really makes no sense. And when the engie is there, it’s very hard to do anything about him. I understand that the automatic response is going to be L2P, but really. If someone was to objectively make a list (no one here for sure) about what builds beat other builds, things that turret engies are good against and what they are bad against would likely be the most skewed list.

Turret engies are actually bad against a LOT of builds because how much their immobility can be exploited. They’re just good at holding a point, especially if the point has a decent amount of LOS and high ledges to place turrets.

The entire purpose of Conquest is holding points. So they happen to be very good at the most important thing.

Yes but that’s not really what you said. But also, that still holds true. In many cases they have a lot of counters. They just so happen to do well against A few standard melee roamers, especially things like thieves who are supposed to be able to kill people and decap. Seems like a good check if you ask me. Because thinks like mesmers, Rangers, hambow, some medi guards and the like actually do quite well against them. They’re not OP, they have huge downfalls and little flexibility.

More times than not what people are really upset about is the ease of play. People get enraged when an AI unit kills them. I think that’s the bigger issue. They have plenty of weaknesses and downfalls and work just like any other rock paper scissor. Scissor is complaining about rock being OP and everyone is complaining that a certain rock is too easy to throw.

Opening up myself to the L2P backlash, but…

So I play a lot of different professions and playstyles. Jumping between is what makes me stay interested. I’ve played with and vs. every current meta build that I know of (and even more janky builds). The only ones that genuinely seem too strong in comparison (as far as ease to counter or even having a hard counter) are Turret Engie far in first, but followed by Shatter Mesmer. With Mesmer it’s easy to spot it’s counter, spamable AoE and condition cleanse (Guardian with a staff is a great example). Turret Engie is a lot harder to counter. The only really consistent argument is to kite or out range him. Unfortunately when you are doing that (which isn’t even that easy to begin with) you aren’t gaining points while he is. And they are very hard to kill even then.

Even bad Engies can only be like, a level 7 of 10, because the turrets are the problem.

Geikamir.6329:

ronpierce.2760:

Geikamir.6329:

ronpierce.2760:

Geikamir.6329:

Turrets are actually surprisingly hard to destroy even when the engie isn’t there. It really makes no sense. And when the engie is there, it’s very hard to do anything about him. I understand that the automatic response is going to be L2P, but really. If someone was to objectively make a list (no one here for sure) about what builds beat other builds, things that turret engies are good against and what they are bad against would likely be the most skewed list.

Turret engies are actually bad against a LOT of builds because how much their immobility can be exploited. They’re just good at holding a point, especially if the point has a decent amount of LOS and high ledges to place turrets.

The entire purpose of Conquest is holding points. So they happen to be very good at the most important thing.

Yes but that’s not really what you said. But also, that still holds true. In many cases they have a lot of counters. They just so happen to do well against A few standard melee roamers, especially things like thieves who are supposed to be able to kill people and decap. Seems like a good check if you ask me. Because thinks like mesmers, Rangers, hambow, some medi guards and the like actually do quite well against them. They’re not OP, they have huge downfalls and little flexibility.

More times than not what people are really upset about is the ease of play. People get enraged when an AI unit kills them. I think that’s the bigger issue. They have plenty of weaknesses and downfalls and work just like any other rock paper scissor. Scissor is complaining about rock being OP and everyone is complaining that a certain rock is too easy to throw.

Opening up myself to the L2P backlash, but…

So I play a lot of different professions and playstyles. Jumping between is what makes me stay interested. I’ve played with and vs. every current meta build that I know of (and even more janky builds). The only ones that genuinely seem too strong in comparison (as far as ease to counter or even having a hard counter) are Turret Engie far in first, but followed by Shatter Mesmer. With Mesmer it’s easy to spot it’s counter, spamable AoE and condition cleanse (Guardian with a staff is a great example). Turret Engie is a lot harder to counter. The only really consistent argument is to kite or out range him. Unfortunately when you are doing that (which isn’t even that easy to begin with) you aren’t gaining points while he is. And they are very hard to kill even then.

Even bad Engies can only be like, a level 7 of 10, because the turrets are the problem.

Here’s the thing I think people tend to forget. Turrets are bruisers I’d say similarly to how Hambow is. they do decent (Not high, the actual math in their damage is not as high as people will lead you to believe) but they’re also decently resilient with a major weakness to ranged attacks and conditions. MANY times fighting these builds, you can’t expect to just decap or take the cap without them dying. It works similarly to say a guardian standing on middle or home, you’re not getting points and they are while they’re alive, so use that knowledge as an advantage. Relax and just know you’re not taking it while he’s alive anyways so give yourself that freedom to kill him as best you can at ranged. Rangers do this best, but many builds can do it. Once he’s dead then take the cap. Or 1v2 him, which is a common strategy to take far, and he’ll surely die faster than many other bruiser/bunker builds because they really don’t have many defensive maneuvers. Their main defenses are healing turret overcharge/blast, protection and CC. Their CC at range is abyssmal, this is the main reason melee without stability has a harder time with them. Thumper can be problematic for squishy melee like thieves. 2-3 chained CCs and they’re basically dead, its a simple counter though.

Like I said. Even “L2P” issues aside, most people get miffed about the passiveness of damage and AI in general, as well as ease of play more than them being particularly “OP”. That’s why most conversations skip “nerf turrets” to “remove turrets from PVP entirely”. Is sort of a shame though because builds and characters exist many games and aren’t an issue. This is the first game I’ve seen the community have such a huge problem with AI.

They kill fun.

dietzero.3514:

They kill fun.

Highly subjective.

I’ve hard many “fun easy free kills”. Some people enjoy turrets. So that’s pretty subjective.

@ Ron (quotes have gotten a bit long and I’m on mobile)

The amount of effort you are describing just to deal with one other player is immense. It’s very unprofitable to even fight a turret Engie. It takes too many resources. And if your team devotes that many resources then they are going to get back capped and ran over in other fights around the map.

The only way to prevent that sort of uneven trade is to have your own turret engie. And when that’s the best solution, there’s a problem.

holodoc.5748:

I play all eight professions and consider myself to be pretty competent sPvP player (except as a thief, I suck at it big time). Engi is probably my second favorite profession after warrior, which is my main.

Last night I was playing as turret engi in unranked Temple. At one point I was alone at mid and facing a warrior 1 vs 1. Mind you that I main warrior so I know every possible strategy that profession can use. My turrets were all positioned as they were supposed to yet this warrior managed to own me two times in a row. Do you know why? Because he was playing smart. He was not rushing like a fool in a middle of the cap point. Instead he was using Longbow from far away to clean my turrets and hide behind pillars when my turrets began an overcharge attack. When he saw me come closer he knew to use immobilize to prevent me from using KB on him.

That’s the exact moment (one of many actually) when I realized how useless turret engis can be if you face people which know how to play against them. You are solely relying on AI and overcharges which can be easily avoided if you pay attention. Not only that but if you use a rifle there are basically only two useful skills on it (net and KB) which have a long enough CD to be useless in team fights.

That being said, the conquest mode is the only reason why turret engis might feel OP. It literally tells people to do the exact opposite they are supposed to do against turret engis – rush toward the turrets. Once you learn NOT to do that you are pretty much good against any turret engi.

And how long did it take him to finally get you off the point while you continued to tick score? That’s the other problem with the build, you basically get 4 health bars (being the turrets that have to be killed before they can get near damaging you), and it takes forever to remove a good turret engi from a point.

Don’t agree with your ‘useless’ rifle skills either, unless you’re so used to the ai doing all your work that you’ve forgotten how much damage it does even with the auto attack over the amount of time it takes to remove you from the point.

Maybe they should nerf the time turrets stay up, the Hp of them and make them them have an uptime of around 10-15 seconds out of 40. What other profession has utilities that have as much HP, do so many effects and damage and stay up for so long?

In most games I play in, if there is a semi decent turret engi on the enemy team sitting on a spot I get my team to cap and hold the other two spots 5v4 rather than watch people wasting time or having to 2v1 against ai while their team racks up the score.

The build is too cheesy for a ‘hold points’ type pvp game.

Maybe they should make the selection always pop Courtyard whenever a turret engi is in the team and disable character change/swap if you choose engi:-)

Turret engis are annoying but if the other team ignores the point where the turret engi is sitting and forces a 5on4 elsewhere, the engi becomes completely useless.

Ranged classes can 1on1 them rather consistently if they’re patient.

Bran.7425:

Defining trait heavy are some/all of the skills completely useless without some/all of associated traits/seeming balanced around the traited versions as oppose to the baseline skill.

Fine. And since there was a discussion about such a trait just some posts above your last post – rifled-turret barrels (a grandmaster trait) already ends up being one, since without that range increase rifle and rocket turrets are just sitting targets (but at least you get other traits from said line). So they’re already partially inclined toward that route, at least as far as pvp goes (in pve they’re useless, anyway).

Supreme.3164:

I am asking, pleading, begging you Devs to stand your ground once more.
Do not give in! Let us not reduce further the build diversity in this game; let us send a clear, definitive message to the Vocal minority, the message being : Learn To Play.

They need to learn how to adapt to the ever changing environment, they need to learn how to change: tactics, playstyle and even profession if necessary.

Less nerfing and more buffing pls, many builds make the game fun as people can try and play different things, few builds make the game boring and stagnant.

Let us all remember that : *creativity, adaptability, humbleness are what divide the good from the bad. *

Cheers

There’s on big problem with that.

I have no problem with variance, or off meta builds or any of that.

What i have a problem with is a not so skilled engineer, winning against other builds of higher skilled players, just because of the way it works.

You can HAVE your turret engineer build. Nobody’s going to remove turret eng.

That doesn’t mean it doesn’t need to be tweaked.

I am curious how we are supposed to adapt to a build that practically lets you afk in any defensible position, heal yourself to full, and deal enough dmg to kill anyone.

It doesn’t matter how viable or bla bla your turret build is, if theres no counterplay, or less counterplay compared to other builds, and bridges the skill gap with no effort required, then it needs to be adjusted.

The fact i have to blow through 2 turrets, and 2 healing turrets before i can even get to you, and then you can just recast them after? I just don’t even.

It takes too much to fight a turret eng, and 1v1, turret eng will most times win out.

And that’s not fair gameplay.

Out of everyone i’ve played against, turret eng has to be the worst.

I don’t mind being outskilled. I don’t mind getting stomped. What i don’t like is being helpless against a class, esp a turret engineer, who cannot dodge a single skillshot or ability to save his life, but can still eventually beat me due to his kit

Turret engineers are something I can’t kill in PvP, but I know the reason why. It’s not because they are OP, and it’s not because I’m terrible (though I don’t claim to be great). It’s because they counter my build.

I play a melee power/spectral necro, and Turret Engineer happens to perfectly counter that. I frequently run into a build that I simply cannot win against, and I don’t complain about it one bit. I recognize that changing my build to use wells would give me an edge, as would swapping to Axe. Swapping to a condi build would let me eat that engineer alive as well. I can counter them easily with changes to my build, but I consciously choose not to make those changes in favor of other matchups.

Everyone has those options. Would be nice if people recognized that.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Turret engineers are something I can’t kill in PvP, but I know the reason why. It’s not because they are OP, and it’s not because I’m terrible (though I don’t claim to be great). It’s because they counter my build.

I play a melee power/spectral necro, and Turret Engineer happens to perfectly counter that. I frequently run into a build that I simply cannot win against, and I don’t complain about it one bit. I recognize that changing my build to use wells would give me an edge, as would swapping to Axe. Swapping to a condi build would let me eat that engineer alive as well. I can counter them easily with changes to my build, but I consciously choose not to make those changes in favor of other matchups.

Everyone has those options. Would be nice if people recognized that.

The problem is that, you have that ability built in.

Not all professions get to do that.

I’m a warrior, and there’s no way im going to range down a turret eng. I must then use multiple forces just to deal with 1 guy who can effectively 1v2 easily.

What if by odd chance we end up with no range?

I’m all akin for losing, getting stomped, or outplayed.

But there needs to be SOME counterplay for melee classes too.

It’s not about that, its about a level playing field, and completely blocking 1 fighting type is too much. There’s melle, and there’s ranged. Ruling out 50% of builds ineffective is broken.

And saying “overpower” isn’t a solution either.

Warriors have Longbow. Arcing Shot hits hard AoE and Pin Down+ burst skill melt engies pretty quick.

Warriors also have hammer. The turrets might be immune to the CC, but the massive AoE it provides lets you nail the engineer anyway.

Funnily enough, both of these were popular together and one still is a staple for PvP builds. The old triple-stance Hambow build did fantastically at killing turret engies. Still does just fine against them.

Guardian (the “other” melee profession) can mostly counter turret engineer with Wall of Reflection.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Turret engineers are something I can’t kill in PvP, but I know the reason why. It’s not because they are OP, and it’s not because I’m terrible (though I don’t claim to be great). It’s because they counter my build.

I play a melee power/spectral necro, and Turret Engineer happens to perfectly counter that. I frequently run into a build that I simply cannot win against, and I don’t complain about it one bit. I recognize that changing my build to use wells would give me an edge, as would swapping to Axe. Swapping to a condi build would let me eat that engineer alive as well. I can counter them easily with changes to my build, but I consciously choose not to make those changes in favor of other matchups.

Everyone has those options. Would be nice if people recognized that.

The problem is that, you have that ability built in.

Not all professions get to do that.

I’m a warrior, and there’s no way im going to range down a turret eng. I must then use multiple forces just to deal with 1 guy who can effectively 1v2 easily.

What if by odd chance we end up with no range?

I’m all akin for losing, getting stomped, or outplayed.

But there needs to be SOME counterplay for melee classes too.

It’s not about that, its about a level playing field, and completely blocking 1 fighting type is too much. There’s melle, and there’s ranged. Ruling out 50% of builds ineffective is broken.

And saying “overpower” isn’t a solution either.

Hambow happens to be one of the better counters to Turrets… Rock paper scissors man. Thats sort of how it goes in build wars. There’s not a build out there that doesn’t at least struggle with some other build set up.

Except in this case the person with scissors is a robot with zero human interaction required.

Shiyo.3578:

Except in this case the person with scissors is a robot with zero human interaction required.

If there’s no human, there is no robot. Remove the human, you’ve removed the robot.

If you are losing to unattended turrets, it really is a L2P problem.

Phantaram.4816:

Beating a turret engineer in a 1v1 is far from an l2p issue in a lot of cases. Turret engi beats tons of builds for free (provided you have half a brain), even a lot of the meta builds with the some of the best players in the game playing them.

The biggest problem with turret engineer is that I think a significant amount of the player base isn’t good enough to justify NOT going turret engi. What I’m saying is that a significant amount of players could role turret engi and perform better than whatever they usually play.

In unorganized environments or when amateur teams don’t know how to deal with them, turret engineers are extremely frustrating for them to fight and that’s not a healthy environment.

These players shouldn’t have to deal with builds like this.

This^

Turret Engineers are way TOO punishing for the opponent’s team, certainly with new players and the current matchmaking.

Either they go close or far, decap, kill and AFK /win.

The reason why AFK wins is because beginners/casuals don’t get they can ignore/outrotate/win 4v5 and keep feeding at the Turret Engi (again, too punishing for the ppl in the same team WITH experience)

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Shiyo.3578:

Except in this case the person with scissors is a robot with zero human interaction required.

If there’s no human, there is no robot. Remove the human, you’ve removed the robot.

If you are losing to unattended turrets, it really is a L2P problem.

Not to mention that’s completely false. An engineer spamming rifle 1 and 3 on cooldown is equal to something like 35-40% of the damage done. That’s a pretty big chunk. Over half their CC is also from rifle 2/4 and overcharge blasting their heal. Just sort of goes to show how little people actually know about what’s going on.

ronpierce.2760:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Turret engineers are something I can’t kill in PvP, but I know the reason why. It’s not because they are OP, and it’s not because I’m terrible (though I don’t claim to be great). It’s because they counter my build.

I play a melee power/spectral necro, and Turret Engineer happens to perfectly counter that. I frequently run into a build that I simply cannot win against, and I don’t complain about it one bit. I recognize that changing my build to use wells would give me an edge, as would swapping to Axe. Swapping to a condi build would let me eat that engineer alive as well. I can counter them easily with changes to my build, but I consciously choose not to make those changes in favor of other matchups.

Everyone has those options. Would be nice if people recognized that.

The problem is that, you have that ability built in.

Not all professions get to do that.

I’m a warrior, and there’s no way im going to range down a turret eng. I must then use multiple forces just to deal with 1 guy who can effectively 1v2 easily.

What if by odd chance we end up with no range?

I’m all akin for losing, getting stomped, or outplayed.

But there needs to be SOME counterplay for melee classes too.

It’s not about that, its about a level playing field, and completely blocking 1 fighting type is too much. There’s melle, and there’s ranged. Ruling out 50% of builds ineffective is broken.

And saying “overpower” isn’t a solution either.

Hambow happens to be one of the better counters to Turrets… Rock paper scissors man. Thats sort of how it goes in build wars. There’s not a build out there that doesn’t at least struggle with some other build set up.

Condition Mesmer

Full berserker warrior, 10 stacks of might, over 2500 power: Unattended turrets easily live through a full 100b + whirlwind + arcing slice + arcing arrow combo (tons of aoe damage) while doing over 10k damage to the warrior and interrupting/knocking him back (thumper + rocket turret ftw, right?). Don’t believe me? Go try it out vs a traited turret engi. The same applies to thieves and all condition specs (since turrets are immune to conditions). Anyone who thinks it makes sense for a passive build (you can literally afk) to counter 2/3 types of builds (condi & berserker). If you want to capture the point, you somehow have to live long enough or kill the turrets.

If you manage to blow up some turrets, they explode and knockback + damage you for quite a bit too. I used to run a build entirely around exploding turrets because the knockback + damage is quite significant (and the lovely blast finishers are great). The tool belt skills more than compensate for having your turrets on cooldown after blowing them up.

You can sit off point and plunk away at the turrets with a bow, wasting (literally) 2-3 minutes while your team is fighting 4v5 on the rest of the map. Doing this WILL make your team lose, so it’s not a viable strategy. The only real solution is to rush the point with 2-3 players, at which point you’re leaving the rest of the map undefended in a 2v5. Turrets allow engis to hold a point without being physically there. That is a serious problem.

To refresh people’s memory: The community was in a huge uproar over ranger pets being able to go to a nearby point (effectively allowing rangers to guard two points at once). Ranger pets can at least be killed rather quickly. This was promptly fixed with the leash range on pets getting reduced so they couldn’t do that anymore.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Hambow happens to be one of the better counters to Turrets… Rock paper scissors man. Thats sort of how it goes in build wars. There’s not a build out there that doesn’t at least struggle with some other build set up.

Condition Mesmer

Loses horribly to condition necro.

Most condition builds lose to condition necro.

You can kill a turret engineer with 2 people, which is pretty standard to use 2 players to take a node, that’s not unique to turret engineers. Secondly, for whatever reason you decided to take the critical route and send 3 people, you some how ended up 2v5 on the rest of the board? They have 6 players? Exaggerations get us no where.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Warriors have Longbow. Arcing Shot hits hard AoE and Pin Down+ burst skill melt engies pretty quick.

Warriors also have hammer. The turrets might be immune to the CC, but the massive AoE it provides lets you nail the engineer anyway.

Funnily enough, both of these were popular together and one still is a staple for PvP builds. The old triple-stance Hambow build did fantastically at killing turret engies. Still does just fine against them.

Guardian (the “other” melee profession) can mostly counter turret engineer with Wall of Reflection.

you don’t just “range down” an engineer. Most of the longbows abilities are on high cd. After that the end will just heal.

Even if you get in there and smash his turrets, he can just drop new ones, while dotting you up.

Even with condition removal its still a pain in the kitten , and a good engineer won’t lose that fight.

I completely GET the fact that the turrets downside is that it in fact is very stationary and immobile, and you’re free to go 5v4 other points.. the problem is in that sense…
I can’t think of another profession currently that can guarantee a point as easily as turret eng

unless you go waste resources to try to take the turret engs bunkered point, they will have 1 point guaranteed
Also if you’re saying “melt” you’re obviously not doing a typical hambow build which is tanky with some power.

You might be referring to a full powerhouse zerk hambow build, in which case then its all or nothing, as he doesn’t have as much time to survive.

I’ve been using the tankier/cond removal and dmg red with rampage to hold down points 1v2 and 1v3, but ill give a zerk hambow a go tonight and see how it differs vs eng.

Kharr.5746:

Full berserker warrior, 10 stacks of might, over 2500 power: Unattended turrets easily live through a full 100b + whirlwind + arcing slice + arcing arrow combo (tons of aoe damage) while doing over 10k damage to the warrior and interrupting/knocking him back (thumper + rocket turret ftw, right?). Don’t believe me? Go try it out vs a traited turret engi. The same applies to thieves and all condition specs (since turrets are immune to conditions). Anyone who thinks it makes sense for a passive build (you can literally afk) to counter 2/3 types of builds (condi & berserker). If you want to capture the point, you somehow have to live long enough or kill the turrets.

If you manage to blow up some turrets, they explode and knockback + damage you for quite a bit too. I used to run a build entirely around exploding turrets because the knockback + damage is quite significant (and the lovely blast finishers are great). The tool belt skills more than compensate for having your turrets on cooldown after blowing them up.

You can sit off point and plunk away at the turrets with a bow, wasting (literally) 2-3 minutes while your team is fighting 4v5 on the rest of the map. Doing this WILL make your team lose, so it’s not a viable strategy. The only real solution is to rush the point with 2-3 players, at which point you’re leaving the rest of the map undefended in a 2v5. Turrets allow engis to hold a point without being physically there. That is a serious problem.

To refresh people’s memory: The community was in a huge uproar over ranger pets being able to go to a nearby point (effectively allowing rangers to guard two points at once). Ranger pets can at least be killed rather quickly. This was promptly fixed with the leash range on pets getting reduced so they couldn’t do that anymore.

This is exactly the problem. and then he will often just put them back up.

I think we need some people who actually play eng to acknowledge that this is a problem. I know people want to have their roflstomp builds but, there’s got to be a stopping point.

even if there are “counters” you have to hope theres a counter in the game. Its not like counters with other professions, where you just have to change your playstyle.

on top of that if i try to d a point, often youll get yelled at for “afk” although i killed 4-5 people alone 1v2.

Eng goes afk, nobody cares. Hey free point.

ronpierce.2760:

You can kill a turret engineer with 2 people, which is pretty standard to use 2 players to take a node, that’s not unique to turret engineers. Secondly, for whatever reason you decided to take the critical route and send 3 people, you some how ended up 2v5 on the rest of the board? They have 6 players? Exaggerations get us no where.

Not true, often i can go 1v1 or 1v2, or watch and wait to ninja points all the time.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Also if you’re saying “melt” you’re obviously not doing a typical hambow build which is tanky with some power.

You might be referring to a full powerhouse zerk hambow build, in which case then its all or nothing, as he doesn’t have as much time to survive.

Or Celestial, which is very commonly used right now and does just fine at melting those engies.

Really, just celestial longbow is all you need as a Warrior, and funnily enough, that’s the meta build.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Also if you’re saying “melt” you’re obviously not doing a typical hambow build which is tanky with some power.

You might be referring to a full powerhouse zerk hambow build, in which case then its all or nothing, as he doesn’t have as much time to survive.

Or Celestial, which is very commonly used right now and does just fine at melting those engies.

Really, just celestial longbow is all you need as a Warrior, and funnily enough, that’s the meta build.

Is it? everything i read stated it was on soldiers for “tanky bruiser” Why is celestial better? It feels like the stats would be split too much to really be more beneficial. Plus the sigils on hammer is designed for soldiers stats lack of crit.

If it really makes that much of a difference, im using soldiers now, as it allows me to 1v1, and often 1v2 or sometimes 1v3 with rampage long enough for my team to come assist and defend a point.

If its that big of a change, ill give it a try tonight and focus on specifically turret eng and report back after a little theorycrafting and testing.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Also if you’re saying “melt” you’re obviously not doing a typical hambow build which is tanky with some power.

You might be referring to a full powerhouse zerk hambow build, in which case then its all or nothing, as he doesn’t have as much time to survive.

Or Celestial, which is very commonly used right now and does just fine at melting those engies.

Really, just celestial longbow is all you need as a Warrior, and funnily enough, that’s the meta build.

Is it? everything i read stated it was on soldiers for “tanky bruiser” Why is celestial better? It feels like the stats would be split too much to really be more beneficial.

If it really makes that much of a difference, im using soldiers now, as it allows me to 1v1, and often 1v2 or sometimes 1v3 with rampage long enough for my team to come assist and defend a point.

If its that big of a change, ill give it a try tonight and focus on specifically turret eng and report back

The meta "build? atm for Warrior is Shoutbow which uses Sword (which benefits from all stats quite well) and so does longbow. Shouts scale well with healing too. Hambow is generally ran with Soldiers, S/Wh+Longbow shout heals run celestial though.

Kharr.5746:

Full berserker warrior, 10 stacks of might, over 2500 power: Unattended turrets easily live through a full 100b + whirlwind + arcing slice + arcing arrow combo (tons of aoe damage) while doing over 10k damage to the warrior and interrupting/knocking him back (thumper + rocket turret ftw, right?). Don’t believe me? Go try it out vs a traited turret engi. The same applies to thieves and all condition specs (since turrets are immune to conditions). Anyone who thinks it makes sense for a passive build (you can literally afk) to counter 2/3 types of builds (condi & berserker). If you want to capture the point, you somehow have to live long enough or kill the turrets.

And dealing with the rocket turret first would have greatly helped. Something that you didn’t seem to do (and that turret would have been annihilated by that combo, by the way).
Instead, you rush into the point with a glass cannon build, inside the range of all the turrets, try to take down the tankiest turret (the only close range one of the lot, by the way)…and then complain that you died. Frankly speaking, you deserved it. That’s, like, the perfect example of what someone shouldn’t do in such a situation. You were playing completely onto the engineer’s hand. Even if he wasn’t there.

Kharr.5746:

If you manage to blow up some turrets, they explode and knockback + damage you for quite a bit too. I used to run a build entirely around exploding turrets because the knockback + damage is quite significant (and the lovely blast finishers are great). The tool belt skills more than compensate for having your turrets on cooldown after blowing them up.

Yeah, but that’s another trait (and i’ve just tested it, around 1500 damage with soldier amulet versus a light golem – not bad at all, but it still requires to detonate or have a turret killed, after all; albeit, the detonation activation will be likely done only with the healing one (it would be a waste with the others, as the toolbelts aren’t that good as you make them seem and there are the cooldowns to take care for; better wait until they’re killed).

Kharr.5746:

You can sit off point and plunk away at the turrets with a bow, wasting (literally) 2-3 minutes while your team is fighting 4v5 on the rest of the map. Doing this WILL make your team lose, so it’s not a viable strategy. The only real solution is to rush the point with 2-3 players, at which point you’re leaving the rest of the map undefended in a 2v5. Turrets allow engis to hold a point without being physically there. That is a serious problem.

To refresh people’s memory: The community was in a huge uproar over ranger pets being able to go to a nearby point (effectively allowing rangers to guard two points at once). Ranger pets can at least be killed rather quickly. This was promptly fixed with the leash range on pets getting reduced so they couldn’t do that anymore.

Guess what, pets also move. Turret can’t. Or shall we move the ground along with them?
Of course they stay there – they are turrets. They can’t move. Comparing them with something that can move – any other minion/pet/whatever ai in the game – makes no sense.
And as i’ve already said above…if the engineer isn’t on point, then he’s somewhere else with only his rifle available. And no way to properly use his overcharges, as he hasn’t got any idea of what is going on. And if the engineer dies, the turrets do as well. An engineer that does so is putting himself (and the point) at risk.
And if you don’t give him the time to go to the point and set himself up, all he can do is either waste the turrets in some alley (he can’t setup himself before the cooldowns are up again) or fight with his rifle and little else (and probably lose in doing so, as without turrets it can’t do much at all).

Manuhell.2759:

Kharr.5746:

Full berserker warrior, 10 stacks of might, over 2500 power: Unattended turrets easily live through a full 100b + whirlwind + arcing slice + arcing arrow combo (tons of aoe damage) while doing over 10k damage to the warrior and interrupting/knocking him back (thumper + rocket turret ftw, right?). Don’t believe me? Go try it out vs a traited turret engi. The same applies to thieves and all condition specs (since turrets are immune to conditions). Anyone who thinks it makes sense for a passive build (you can literally afk) to counter 2/3 types of builds (condi & berserker). If you want to capture the point, you somehow have to live long enough or kill the turrets.

And dealing with the rocket turret first would have greatly helped. Something that you didn’t seem to do (and that turret would have been annihilated by that combo, by the way).
Instead, you rush into the point with a glass cannon build, inside the range of all the turrets and the engineer itself, try to take down the tankiest turret (the only close range one of the lot, by the way)…and then complain that you died. Frankly speaking, you deserved it. That’s, like, the perfect example of what someone shouldn’t do in such a situation. You were playing completely onto the engineer’s hand.

Kharr.5746:

If you manage to blow up some turrets, they explode and knockback + damage you for quite a bit too. I used to run a build entirely around exploding turrets because the knockback + damage is quite significant (and the lovely blast finishers are great). The tool belt skills more than compensate for having your turrets on cooldown after blowing them up.

Yeah, but that’s another trait (and i’ve just tested it, around 1500 damage with soldier amulet versus a light golem – not bad at all, but it still requires to detonate or have a turret killed, after all; albeit, the detonation activation will be likely done only with the healing one (it would be a waste with the others, as the toolbelts aren’t that good as you make them seem and there are the cooldowns to take care for; better wait until they’re killed).

Kharr.5746:

You can sit off point and plunk away at the turrets with a bow, wasting (literally) 2-3 minutes while your team is fighting 4v5 on the rest of the map. Doing this WILL make your team lose, so it’s not a viable strategy. The only real solution is to rush the point with 2-3 players, at which point you’re leaving the rest of the map undefended in a 2v5. Turrets allow engis to hold a point without being physically there. That is a serious problem.

To refresh people’s memory: The community was in a huge uproar over ranger pets being able to go to a nearby point (effectively allowing rangers to guard two points at once). Ranger pets can at least be killed rather quickly. This was promptly fixed with the leash range on pets getting reduced so they couldn’t do that anymore.

Guess what, pets also move. Turret can’t. Or shall we move the ground along with them?
Of course they stay there – they are turrets. They can’t move. Comparing them with something that can move – any other minion/pet/whatever ai in the game – makes no sense.
And as i’ve already said above…if the engineer isn’t on point, then he’s somewhere else with only his rifle available. And no way to properly use his overcharges, as he hasn’t got any idea of what is going on. And if the engineer dies, the turrets do as well. An engineer that does so is putting himself (and the point) at risk.
And if you don’t give him the time to go to the point and set himself up, all he can do is either waste the turrets in some alley (he can’t setup himself before the cooldowns are up again) or fight with his rifle and little else (and probably lose in doing so, as without turrets it can’t do much at all).

So if he’s not defending a point, he’s worthless.

If he’s defending a point, he’s unstoppable.

That’s unhealthy gameplay. You don’t want 2 extremes, you want equal grounds as much as possible.

Right there, in everything you stated, forces them to bunker, and if they can’t then there’s not much else for them to do. its a 1 trick pony. That trick just being very effective.

He’s not unstoppable defending the point. There are many counters, as explained. It just takes some actual brain to fight rather than going in, picking your 1 target and smashing your usual rotation. The brain power isn’t even that extensive… Kill the rocket, avoid the thumper as much as possible while still attacking. If you see it glow you know he’s using the knockback on it get ready to move or pop stability if you have it.

Their weaknesses though are glaring. Not only are they immobile in the sense that rotations for them is hard, if you get caught off point you’re screwed. You either set up and try to live but have nothing once that fight is over, take a dash for the point and end up getting there close to death and with a poor set up, or die before being able to do either of the above. Thieves LOVE them some off-base turreteers. If they’re on point, send someone else or 1 other guy and you’ll have it in no time since their more on cc and mitigation they themselves can go down relatively quickly if you lock them up.

ronpierce.2760:

He’s not unstoppable defending the point. There are many counters, as explained. It just takes some actual brain to fight rather than going in, picking your 1 target and smashing your usual rotation. The brain power isn’t even that extensive… Kill the rocket, avoid the thumper as much as possible while still attacking. If you see it glow you know he’s using the knockback on it get ready to move or pop stability if you have it.

Their weaknesses though are glaring. Not only are they immobile in the sense that rotations for them is hard, if you get caught off point you’re screwed. You either set up and try to live but have nothing once that fight is over, take a dash for the point and end up getting there close to death and with a poor set up, or die before being able to do either of the above. Thieves LOVE them some off-base turreteers. If they’re on point, send someone else or 1 other guy and you’ll have it in no time since their more on cc and mitigation they themselves can go down relatively quickly if you lock them up.

I’ve done all that. Then he just drops another turret set and you’re stuck playing whack a mole to drop all his turrets. then he’s still healing the whole time.

Thiefs are also pure dmg, with cc, and high mobility, so your solution is basically a zerker+ another person.

That’s not viable, that just using an overpower method. That’s a counter to a point and anyone solo defending a point, not specifically a turret engineer. only in most cases i can 1v1 or 1v2 with no issues.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

ronpierce.2760:

He’s not unstoppable defending the point. There are many counters, as explained. It just takes some actual brain to fight rather than going in, picking your 1 target and smashing your usual rotation. The brain power isn’t even that extensive… Kill the rocket, avoid the thumper as much as possible while still attacking. If you see it glow you know he’s using the knockback on it get ready to move or pop stability if you have it.

Their weaknesses though are glaring. Not only are they immobile in the sense that rotations for them is hard, if you get caught off point you’re screwed. You either set up and try to live but have nothing once that fight is over, take a dash for the point and end up getting there close to death and with a poor set up, or die before being able to do either of the above. Thieves LOVE them some off-base turreteers. If they’re on point, send someone else or 1 other guy and you’ll have it in no time since their more on cc and mitigation they themselves can go down relatively quickly if you lock them up.

I’ve done all that. Then he just drops another turret set and you’re stuck playing whack a mole to drop all his turrets. then he’s still healing the whole time.

Thiefs are also pure dmg, with cc, and high mobility, so your solution is basically a zerker+ another person.

That’s not viable, that just using an overpower method. That’s a counter to a point and anyone solo defending a point, not specifically a turret engineer. only in most cases i can 1v1 or 1v2 with no issues.

You can in most cases 1v1 and 1v2 with no issues, sounds like you’re the OP one. Its fine to have counters buddy. I’d say turrets do a decent job counters glass thieves in a 1v1 situation if they’re already set up and the thief is too risky. But I don’t really see the problem with that.

ronpierce.2760:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

ronpierce.2760:

He’s not unstoppable defending the point. There are many counters, as explained. It just takes some actual brain to fight rather than going in, picking your 1 target and smashing your usual rotation. The brain power isn’t even that extensive… Kill the rocket, avoid the thumper as much as possible while still attacking. If you see it glow you know he’s using the knockback on it get ready to move or pop stability if you have it.

Their weaknesses though are glaring. Not only are they immobile in the sense that rotations for them is hard, if you get caught off point you’re screwed. You either set up and try to live but have nothing once that fight is over, take a dash for the point and end up getting there close to death and with a poor set up, or die before being able to do either of the above. Thieves LOVE them some off-base turreteers. If they’re on point, send someone else or 1 other guy and you’ll have it in no time since their more on cc and mitigation they themselves can go down relatively quickly if you lock them up.

I’ve done all that. Then he just drops another turret set and you’re stuck playing whack a mole to drop all his turrets. then he’s still healing the whole time.

Thiefs are also pure dmg, with cc, and high mobility, so your solution is basically a zerker+ another person.

That’s not viable, that just using an overpower method. That’s a counter to a point and anyone solo defending a point, not specifically a turret engineer. only in most cases i can 1v1 or 1v2 with no issues.

You can in most cases 1v1 and 1v2 with no issues, sounds like you’re the OP one. Its fine to have counters buddy. I’d say turrets do a decent job counters glass thieves in a 1v1 situation if they’re already set up and the thief is too risky. But I don’t really see the problem with that.

inexperienced players who have little pvp experience in any mmo flinging their glass cannon body’s at me isn’t op. I can’t count the number of zerkers who show up and get smashed because they have 0 defense or utility.

In that case not only am i outbuilding, i am outexperiencing them.

Playing the afk engineer doesn’t require much experience at all, and gives a false skill boost like others have said.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

ronpierce.2760:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

ronpierce.2760:

He’s not unstoppable defending the point. There are many counters, as explained. It just takes some actual brain to fight rather than going in, picking your 1 target and smashing your usual rotation. The brain power isn’t even that extensive… Kill the rocket, avoid the thumper as much as possible while still attacking. If you see it glow you know he’s using the knockback on it get ready to move or pop stability if you have it.

Their weaknesses though are glaring. Not only are they immobile in the sense that rotations for them is hard, if you get caught off point you’re screwed. You either set up and try to live but have nothing once that fight is over, take a dash for the point and end up getting there close to death and with a poor set up, or die before being able to do either of the above. Thieves LOVE them some off-base turreteers. If they’re on point, send someone else or 1 other guy and you’ll have it in no time since their more on cc and mitigation they themselves can go down relatively quickly if you lock them up.

I’ve done all that. Then he just drops another turret set and you’re stuck playing whack a mole to drop all his turrets. then he’s still healing the whole time.

Thiefs are also pure dmg, with cc, and high mobility, so your solution is basically a zerker+ another person.

That’s not viable, that just using an overpower method. That’s a counter to a point and anyone solo defending a point, not specifically a turret engineer. only in most cases i can 1v1 or 1v2 with no issues.

You can in most cases 1v1 and 1v2 with no issues, sounds like you’re the OP one. Its fine to have counters buddy. I’d say turrets do a decent job counters glass thieves in a 1v1 situation if they’re already set up and the thief is too risky. But I don’t really see the problem with that.

inexperienced players who have little pvp experience in any mmo flinging their glass cannon body’s at me isn’t op. I can’t count the number of zerkers who show up and get smashed because they have 0 defense or utility.

In that case not only am i outbuilding, i am outexperiencing them.

Playing the afk engineer doesn’t require much experience at all, and gives a false skill boost like others have said.

Downplaying turret engineer’s involvement in their victories and general lack of knowledge of the build AND how to handle them, while they also have a bit of a countering edge is the exact same thing you’re describing.

And dealing with the rocket turret first would have greatly helped. Something that you didn’t seem to do (and that turret would have been annihilated by that combo, by the way).
Instead, you rush into the point with a glass cannon build, inside the range of all the turrets, try to take down the tankiest turret (the only close range one of the lot, by the way)…and then complain that you died. Frankly speaking, you deserved it. That’s, like, the perfect example of what someone shouldn’t do in such a situation. You were playing completely onto the engineer’s hand. Even if he wasn’t there.

The most common turret placement is:
1) Thumper turret dead center on a point. The knockback can remove most players trying to cap the point.
2) Flame Turret on the side of the point (just within range of anyone trying to cap, but outside of aoe range).
3) Rocket turret off point, in a hard to reach place. On a cliff, in mid air, etc. It has 1000 range and an aoe knockback attack, so it can hit the entire point from quite a distance.

With this placement, you don’t even need the self-repairing and metal plating traits. I rarely use those traits since my turrets don’t get killed enough to warrant them. Players get a few choices:

1)Try to snipe rocket turret (which has 7.5k base hp, is immune to crits and condi damage), as you suggest, and waste quite a bit of time not decapping the point while I’m helping my team fight 5v4 on the rest of the map.

2) Try to decap the point, and get knocked back by thumper turret + rocket turret and eat a bunch of damage and get nice and softened for when me or my allies come to defend the point after we’ve crushed the team 5v4 on the rest of the map.

3) Go look for me somewhere on the map where I am assisting in the team fight, where I still have my supply crate, tanky build, and plenty of CC (immob + knockback) with rifle. If we’re not winning the team fight, I just blow up my off-site turrets and use the tool belt skills for the extra utility + dps (all of which are quite strong). Being without my turrets does not make me a “free kill” and if other engis are feeling that way, they need to L2P.

Kharr.5746:

And dealing with the rocket turret first would have greatly helped. Something that you didn’t seem to do (and that turret would have been annihilated by that combo, by the way).
Instead, you rush into the point with a glass cannon build, inside the range of all the turrets, try to take down the tankiest turret (the only close range one of the lot, by the way)…and then complain that you died. Frankly speaking, you deserved it. That’s, like, the perfect example of what someone shouldn’t do in such a situation. You were playing completely onto the engineer’s hand. Even if he wasn’t there.

The most common turret placement is:
1) Thumper turret dead center on a point. The knockback can remove most players trying to cap the point.
2) Flame Turret on the side of the point (just within range of anyone trying to cap, but outside of aoe range).
3) Rocket turret off point, in a hard to reach place. On a cliff, in mid air, etc. It has 1000 range and an aoe knockback attack, so it can hit the entire point from quite a distance.

With this placement, you don’t even need the self-repairing and metal plating traits. I rarely use those traits since my turrets don’t get killed enough to warrant them. Players get a few choices:

1)Try to snipe rocket turret (which has 7.5k base hp, is immune to crits and condi damage), as you suggest, and waste quite a bit of time not decapping the point while I’m helping my team fight 5v4 on the rest of the map.

2) Try to decap the point, and get knocked back by thumper turret + rocket turret and eat a bunch of damage and get nice and softened for when me or my allies come to defend the point after we’ve crushed the team 5v4 on the rest of the map.

3) Go look for me somewhere on the map where I am assisting in the team fight, where I still have my supply crate, tanky build, and plenty of CC (immob + knockback) with rifle. If we’re not winning the team fight, I just blow up my off-site turrets and use the tool belt skills for the extra utility + dps (all of which are quite strong). Being without my turrets does not make me a “free kill” and if other engis are feeling that way, they need to L2P.

i’m glad someone admitted it. I don’t feel they need to be nerfed into the ground, But a few tweaks wouldn’t hurt.

I think the biggest point you made was the ability to hold a point and keep people off it. If i try to range you down, that’s just more time wasted not capping the point as well, which your allies might be coming to assist as well.

Kharr.5746:

plenty of CC (immob + knockback) with rifle.

Engineer Rifle – #2 Immobilize; #4 Knockback
Engineer Shield – #4 Knockback; #5 Daze/Stun
Warrior Hammer – #4 knockback; #5 Knockdown; #Burst Stun
Warrior M/M – #3Daze; #5 Knockdown; #Burst Stun
Thief P/P – #2 Immobilize; #4 Daze
Necromancer D/W – #3 Immobilize; #4 Daze
Elementalist Staff – Air #3 Knockback; #5 Stun; Earth #4 Knockback #5 Immobilize
Elementalist D/D – Air #3 Stun; #5 Knockback; Earth #3 Immobilize; #4 Knockdown
Elementalist X/F – Water #5Daze Air #5 Knockdown
Ranger Greatsword – #4 Knockback; #5 Daze/Stun
Guardian Hammer – #3 Immobilize; #4 Launch; #5 Area lockdown
Guardian Scepter/Shield – #3 Immobilize; #5 Knockback
Mesmer Sword/Pistol – #3 Immobilze; #5 Daze/Stun; #Diversion Daze
Mesmer Sword/Sword – #3 Immobilze; #4 Daze #Diversion Daze

Surely, Engineer’s Rifle has plenty of CC.

Kharr.5746:

The most common turret placement is:
1) Thumper turret dead center on a point. The knockback can remove most players trying to cap the point.
2) Flame Turret on the side of the point (just within range of anyone trying to cap, but outside of aoe range).
3) Rocket turret off point, in a hard to reach place. On a cliff, in mid air, etc. It has 1000 range and an aoe knockback attack, so it can hit the entire point from quite a distance.

With this placement, you don’t even need the self-repairing and metal plating traits. I rarely use those traits since my turrets don’t get killed enough to warrant them.

I was thinking more along the line of rifle/rocket/thumper (and traited for range, plating and self-repair). Unless the point you describe is really small – and imho, that’s another issue altogether, as i also mentioned before – such a tactic won’t work.
(by the way, rocket turret overcharge is single target)

Players get a few choices:

1)Try to snipe rocket turret (which has 7.5k base hp, is immune to crits and condi damage), as you suggest, and waste quite a bit of time not decapping the point while I’m helping my team fight 5v4 on the rest of the map.

I don’t see at as a waste of time, though. In doing so, you used up an utility and will have to wait for an hefty 50s cooldown. And, more importantly, he can get the point. If turrets aren’t traited for range, he may even not get damaged in doing so, depending on his build.
Also, his team isn’t fighting versus “5” opponents either way. Having a single weapon, utilities are all the most more important for an engineer than other classes. And knowing that you use turrets (and thus that you can’t have utilities available, aside from the healing and the elite) makes you even an easier prey.
It would be more correct to say that there is a 0.4 defending a point and 4.4 fighting versus 4 (the 0.2 lost is due to the lack of efficency in managing turrets while away from them)

2) Try to decap the point, and get knocked back by thumper turret + rocket turret and eat a bunch of damage and get nice and softened for when me or my allies come to defend the point after we’ve crushed the team 5v4 on the rest of the map.

The worst choice, imho. Rushing forcefully is a recipe for failure. As it should be.

Kharr.5746:

3) Go look for me somewhere on the map where I am assisting in the team fight, where I still have my supply crate, tanky build, and plenty of CC (immob + knockback) with rifle. If we’re not winning the team fight, I just blow up my off-site turrets and use the tool belt skills for the extra utility + dps (all of which are quite strong). Being without my turrets does not make me a “free kill” and if other engis are feeling that way, they need to L2P.

That’s assuming you successfully arrived at the team fight (intercepting you before it happens would be the worst outcome).
Even then, supply crate has still a 3 minute cooldown, so it isn’t like you can spam it as will. Sure, you may detonate all your turrets and use toolbelts. Even then, your enemies still have a second main weapon, their class mechanic and their utilities available. Beside knowing that you are an opponent with a serious lack of condition cleanses (by using 3 turrets you can’t have other utilities, and that’s something they can easily see for themselves during the battle). That alone makes you the perfect target to be focused upon.
Of course, assuming that the last enemy isn’t fast enough to properly help his allies and force you in a 5vs4.4 fight, kill you and then go get a point now devoid of turrets (and maybe also attack you before you can get to the point and set up your turrets).

Actually turret engi is good I just think the net turret in the supply drop need to be change out to thumper turret or somethin…hence it why most of us are eating that dmg

tenklo.6104:

Actually turret engi is good I just think the net turret in the supply drop need to be change out to thumper turret or somethin…hence it why most of us are eating that dmg

And since it couldn’t be overcharged itd just be a cripple instead of immob and no added CC. I think that’s fair.

Just make them explode on less incoming damage taken, they are too tanky as-is for something so passive, and shorten the recasts to compensate. Treat them more like a Mesmer Phantasm—Whaaaaaaaa- – you cry out, baffled with shock, confusion and awe at such a ludicrous suggestion?—No.. really, they got perfectly good range as-is, even if they are stationary. If you were to run away for that range on a Phantasm, it’ll disintegrate on its own, even if the Mesmer stays on you the whole time. At least your turrets can stick around, right? That, or the very least make some conditions work on them. Bleed can be seen as oil leakage, Burn could be seen as fuel catching fire, etc.

Two of the 3 are actually not that tough. People pretend they are all as tough as the thumper but that’s incredibly not true. Additionally, thumper is tanky on purpose. It’s a middle-fight turret. It’s tough because it’s → supposed to be able to last in the ticket <-. Technically speaking, it’s working as intended. The rifle and rocket turrets are significantly weaker.