Guild Wars 2

ronpierce.2760:

tenklo.6104:

Actually turret engi is good I just think the net turret in the supply drop need to be change out to thumper turret or somethin…hence it why most of us are eating that dmg

And since it couldn’t be overcharged itd just be a cripple instead of immob and no added CC. I think that’s fair.

Could be an idea. Albeit, if they do so, i sure hope they revert the nerf they did on net turret…since it was stated specifically that they were done due to supply crate.

Absconditus.6804:

Just make them explode on less incoming damage taken, they are too tanky as-is for something so passive, and shorten the recasts to compensate. Treat them more like a Mesmer Phantasm—Whaaaaaaaa- – you cry out, baffled with shock, confusion and awe at such a ludicrous suggestion?—No.. really, they got perfectly good range as-is, even if they are stationary. If you were to run away for that range on a Phantasm, it’ll disintegrate on its own, even if the Mesmer stays on you the whole time. At least your turrets can stick around, right?

Sure, that’s something that could be done. Did you think about the consequences, though?
Lessening the cooldowns means also increasing the times that accelerant-packed turret and fortified turrets will process.

Absconditus.6804:

That, or the very least make some conditions work on them. Bleed can be seen as oil leakage, Burn could be seen as fuel catching fire, etc.

They could, but probably that would also require a rebalance on their health points, else they would just melt in a few seconds. After all, they likely have their current hp balanced over the fact that they can’t be harmed by condition. Thus explaining why their health is relatively low, despite being static targets that can be outranged without retaliation (at least when untraited for).

I like how people keep trying to bring up “counters” in this thread when others just do not want this build to exist. Look, even if I was most pro player in the world and can beat every turret engineer 100% of the time, this build should still be gutted. It has no business in a pvp environment, a pure auto pilot build that can be run by a bot program and still be effective.

Also alot of “counters” people list are quite laughable even, ranging turrets down with lb as a warrior?.. because those turrets can’t hit you right?.. or the engineer can’t hit you still right?.. and how long will that take?.. the match would be over by the time you destroy all the turrets with your pitiful longbow damage.

Lifestealer.4910:

I like how people keep trying to bring up “counters” in this thread when others just do not want this build to exist. Look, even if I was most pro player in the world and can beat every turret engineer 100% of the time, this build should still be gutted. It has no business in a pvp environment, a pure auto pilot build that can be run by a bot program and still be effective.

Also alot of “counters” people list are quite laughable even, ranging turrets down with lb as a warrior?.. because those turrets can’t hit you right?.. or the engineer can’t hit you still right?.. and how long will that take?.. the match would be over by the time you destroy all the turrets with your pitiful longbow damage.

First, that’s not even close to how a Hambow kills Turreteers. Secondly, this is a perception issue. You don’t like the AI (semi controlled even), tower defense, “trapping” style of gameplay.

Well, I don’t like instant teleports, high unrealistic mobility, insane burst from auto attacks (via sigils), multiple evade frames built into attacks or stealth. But at least I’m realistic enough to not go around saying “this stuff doesn’t deserve to exist ever” because lets face it. If we ‘gutted’ everything that someone could build a strong argument over for why it shouldn’t belong in PVP there’d be one build and one class.

People overstate the damage and CC factors of Turrets. For example, engineer rifle does 40% of the engineers total damage for example, not many realize this. Or that every CC the turreteer has is triggered, none are passive, but people still think or say it they have too much passive CC. The only truly “passive” cc is if you’re standing DIRECTLY on a turret you kill. But according to everyone, they’re impossible to kill, so you tell me…

ronpierce.2760:

Lifestealer.4910:

I like how people keep trying to bring up “counters” in this thread when others just do not want this build to exist. Look, even if I was most pro player in the world and can beat every turret engineer 100% of the time, this build should still be gutted. It has no business in a pvp environment, a pure auto pilot build that can be run by a bot program and still be effective.

Also alot of “counters” people list are quite laughable even, ranging turrets down with lb as a warrior?.. because those turrets can’t hit you right?.. or the engineer can’t hit you still right?.. and how long will that take?.. the match would be over by the time you destroy all the turrets with your pitiful longbow damage.

First, that’s not even close to how a Hambow kills Turreteers. Secondly, this is a perception issue. You don’t like the AI (semi controlled even), tower defense, “trapping” style of gameplay.

Well, I don’t like instant teleports, high unrealistic mobility, insane burst from auto attacks (via sigils), multiple evade frames built into attacks or stealth. But at least I’m realistic enough to not go around saying “this stuff doesn’t deserve to exist ever” because lets face it. If we ‘gutted’ everything that someone could build a strong argument over for why it shouldn’t belong in PVP there’d be one build and one class.

People overstate the damage and CC factors of Turrets. For example, engineer rifle does 40% of the engineers total damage for example, not many realize this. Or that every CC the turreteer has is triggered, none are passive, but people still think or say it they have too much passive CC. The only truly “passive” cc is if you’re standing DIRECTLY on a turret you kill. But according to everyone, they’re impossible to kill, so you tell me…

It is not a perception issue, this AI isn’t “semi controlled” it is pure auto piloted. Every other competitive pvp games has the player controlling 99% of the AI’s behavior. In guild wars 2, turrets are a place and forget spell, you just place them randomly on and around a point and they will do the work, there is no effort involved. Such a build would of been instantly gutted in any other serious pvp games, either or reworked into something that actually takes more player interaction.

That proves my point that you don’t understand the build at all.

Actually I probably understand the build more than you do since I play an engineer mostly and have tried the turret build for myself. It is every bit as easy and brainless as I say it is.

Lifestealer.4910:

ronpierce.2760:

Lifestealer.4910:

I like how people keep trying to bring up “counters” in this thread when others just do not want this build to exist. Look, even if I was most pro player in the world and can beat every turret engineer 100% of the time, this build should still be gutted. It has no business in a pvp environment, a pure auto pilot build that can be run by a bot program and still be effective.

Also alot of “counters” people list are quite laughable even, ranging turrets down with lb as a warrior?.. because those turrets can’t hit you right?.. or the engineer can’t hit you still right?.. and how long will that take?.. the match would be over by the time you destroy all the turrets with your pitiful longbow damage.

First, that’s not even close to how a Hambow kills Turreteers. Secondly, this is a perception issue. You don’t like the AI (semi controlled even), tower defense, “trapping” style of gameplay.

Well, I don’t like instant teleports, high unrealistic mobility, insane burst from auto attacks (via sigils), multiple evade frames built into attacks or stealth. But at least I’m realistic enough to not go around saying “this stuff doesn’t deserve to exist ever” because lets face it. If we ‘gutted’ everything that someone could build a strong argument over for why it shouldn’t belong in PVP there’d be one build and one class.

People overstate the damage and CC factors of Turrets. For example, engineer rifle does 40% of the engineers total damage for example, not many realize this. Or that every CC the turreteer has is triggered, none are passive, but people still think or say it they have too much passive CC. The only truly “passive” cc is if you’re standing DIRECTLY on a turret you kill. But according to everyone, they’re impossible to kill, so you tell me…

It is not a perception issue, this AI isn’t “semi controlled” it is pure auto piloted. Every other competitive pvp games has the player controlling 99% of the AI’s behavior. In guild wars 2, turrets are a place and forget spell, you just place them randomly on and around a point and they will do the work, there is no effort involved. Such a build would of been instantly gutted in any other serious pvp games, either or reworked into something that actually takes more player interaction.

Place them randomly around a point?

Like placing the rocket turret around?.. like outside but near the point?..my wording may not be 100% correct but thats what I mean.

Also less nitpicking ty, I know you turret engis are desperate but don’t worry Anet will sure release some other faceroll brain dead build for you guys to use after the expansion.

Lifestealer.4910:

Actually I probably understand the build more than you do since I play an engineer mostly and have tried the turret build for myself. It is every bit as easy and brainless as I say it is.

I play Turret engi with Five Gauge and several other well known players (even a few times with Grouch/Nightmare). I know the build. I haven’t just “tried it”, I’ve played it in various skill levels. I’ve offered ways to actually fix turrets. But I’m just trying to stop the ridiculous “kill it with fire” approach, because I’m sick of seeing builds being trashed over massive tear waves.

ronpierce.2760:

Lifestealer.4910:

Actually I probably understand the build more than you do since I play an engineer mostly and have tried the turret build for myself. It is every bit as easy and brainless as I say it is.

I play Turret engi with Five Gauge and several other well known players (even a few times with Grouch/Nightmare). I know the build. I haven’t just “tried it”, I’ve played it in various skill levels. I’ve offered ways to actually fix turrets. But I’m just trying to stop the ridiculous “kill it with fire” approach, because I’m sick of seeing builds being trashed over massive tear waves.

The thing is for a build like that, there is only either “kill with fire” or “rework it into something almost completely different”, I honestly don’t care which approach they do because knowing Anet, they love AI and probably will do neither.

Swim.6830:

Don’t worry OP, the only class that gets nerfed each time is Eles

you mean thief

turrets should have their regen cut in half and despawn if engineer goes +1200 range of them.

Snorcha.7586:

turrets should have their regen cut in half and despawn if engineer goes +1200 range of them.

More like (of course, just my opinion):
- Thumper needs to change to add 1 stability for 4 seconds every 10 seconds instead of protection so that they’re a bit squishier (of course post-stability change).
- Turret HP needs to increase about 20% but:
– Conditions affect them, but at 50% reduced duration added to plated turrets.
– Removed Regen (see next point).
- Remove the 5%/3 sec healing trait. Replace with: Reduce the starting cooldown of non-healing turrets by the percentage of remaining health when picked up. This way turrets can roam better, turrets have more counter play and people have to manually manage them better. That may even include picking them up before an anticipated assault on one. That said, if they’re exploded or killed, full recharge.
- Make the Rifled Turret Barrel trait range baseline, and rework the trait, effectively lowering Turret damage as they no longer gain 15% damage. Instead, rework it to “Turret Modded Weapons: Weapon attacks also let out a burst of 100 damage per turret ability slotted.” (Wording might need cleaning up) But essentially, it shifts more damage to the engineer and even give incentive to use more power/crit/ferocity over strictly running Sentinel, if the scaling is appropriate.

These are the general rough steps I’d take to correcting it. Feel free to weigh in.

All of you telling people to L2P, that’s too far. Shut the kitten up. If you’re saying that trying to fight a turret engi 1v1 is a L2P issue, then you’re saying 75% of us need to L2P. Yes, they’re not unbeatable, but far more perfect than all the other classes.
I still think the Overcharged Shot is the most overpowered issue on it. The fact a 3-4s CC on a 15s cooldown (12 if traited) is rediculous. It should be increased to 25 seconds at least.
Its not only that, it’s that they can chain CC so easily.
Their CC sources are:
Thumper Turret – Thump (30s cd)
Rocket Turret – Explosive Rockets (30s cd)
Net Turret – Electrified Net (30s cd)
Supply Crate (180s cd)
Overcharged Shot (15s cd)

At least half of the PvPers won’t last after the second CC chain. The cooldowns on the turrets are much shorter than everyone’s Stability source, or if the Stability is a short duration (Guardian Stand your Ground), they can just wait for it to end.
By default, turret engineers will just get lucky with their CC spams as they can keep you disabled for at least a third of the fight. If you’re stunbreakers or Stability sources are on CD, that’s a 8s CC your facing + 2s immobilize.

However, yes as everyone says, there are counters.
Medi Guard – Destroy turrets with symbol cleaves, scepter smite
Staff Ele – This can be easily done but also interrupted. Cast Meteor Shower then immediately swap to Earth and use Magnetic Aura while casting. Believe it or not, 80% of Engineers are kittened and will Overcharged shot themselves, trying to interrupt you.
Power Ranger – Keep out of the turret’s range, maybe shoot down the rocket turret first, then focus down the Engineer.
D/F Ele – Takes time but you’re Swirling Winds and Magnetic Wave as much as possible, Magnetic Wave when they begin the CC chain so you can reflect most of it. Obsidian Focus is also a nice way to break the CC chain. It’s also super easy to stomp them, you can block, reflect, stabilize or invul when stomping them..
Shatter Mes with Feedback and Distortion Reflection – Your burst will tear them apart, and you’re reflections will out last his lifespan if you do it right. You can also take out the sniping turrets and then just chill with your GS and wear him down.

Aside from all that, turret engineers can be used strategically to take points off super bunkers; Banner Warrior Bunker or Altruistic Healing Guardian, or at mid field support.

Generally, it’s not a L2P issue if you try to decap far and bump into them, but it’s ok to disengage, and run back to mid, yes time is lost but that’s ok. Report to your team that there’s a turret engi there, and not to go near them. Think of it as its better wasting 30 seconds rather than wasting 2 minutes, entertaining the engineer, and giving him a free kill. They dominate 1v1, but not Conquest.
Any decent engineer will run Fortified Turrets, and Flame and Thumper turrets for mid fight support, and resistance vs rangers, rather than bunking home for days doing nothing.

ronpierce.2760:

Snorcha.7586:

turrets should have their regen cut in half and despawn if engineer goes +1200 range of them.

More like (of course, just my opinion):
- Thumper needs to change to add 1 stability for 4 seconds every 10 seconds instead of protection so that they’re a bit squishier (of course post-stability change).
- Turret HP needs to increase about 20% but:
– Conditions affect them, but at 50% reduced duration added to plated turrets.
– Removed Regen (see next point).
- Remove the 5%/3 sec healing trait. Replace with: Reduce the starting cooldown of non-healing turrets by the percentage of remaining health when picked up. This way turrets can roam better, turrets have more counter play and people have to manually manage them better. That may even include picking them up before an anticipated assault on one. That said, if they’re exploded or killed, full recharge.
- Make the Rifled Turret Barrel trait range baseline, and rework the trait, effectively lowering Turret damage as they no longer gain 15% damage. Instead, rework it to “Turret Modded Weapons: Weapon attacks also let out a burst of 100 damage per turret ability slotted.” (Wording might need cleaning up) But essentially, it shifts more damage to the engineer and even give incentive to use more power/crit/ferocity over strictly running Sentinel, if the scaling is appropriate.

These are the general rough steps I’d take to correcting it. Feel free to weigh in.

Baseline speaking, they would melt in a few seconds with just a 20% hp increase. Even with the plating, aside from the thumper one, i can’t see them alive for more than 10s (and even then, we’re talking about a few seconds more, and thumper is already on point anyway). Turrets with long cooldowns would be gutted by such a change, on virtue of being on cooldown the large majority of the time.
Sure, there is the other trait you suggested…but what would the point of it be? Roam better? They are turrets, they aren’t supposed to be something you can freely move. Picking them up before an anticipated assault? And so you stay there trying to resist an assault with utilities you can’t even use because they could just take them out? How are you fighting then? If you can’t even rely on them to be actually used, you could as well not take them and get a kit instead. At least you don’t risk it being destroyed, beside offering more versatility and being generally better.
(i should also add that it would likely make the fortified turrets trait totally broken…you could just deploy some short cooldown turret to get the reflective shield, pick it up, and repeat; it would likely end up nerfed to the ground after such a change)
About the grandmaster suggestion…according to how it actually works, it can go terribly wrong (per hit? flamethrower or grenades and turrets = scorched earth). Even without kits, those bursts would just empower the autoattack most of the time. It would just end up being a strong passive bonus that still offers no counterplay either.
I would rather see that power directed upon overcharges. Make it reduce the overcharge cooldown and increase the damage (or effect, if they don’t deal primarily deal damage) done by the overcharge. That would not apply to the healing turret, of course.

Anyway, imho, there is a conceptual issue people aren’t considering here.
A necromancer can afford an army of disposable minions, but the engineer is different – his companions are limited in numbers, and they must shoulder all the more the weight, especially due of that lack of a second weapon. They must be alive and working most of the time and do something to be worth a slot.
Sure, there are ways they could rework them while still maintaining reasonable uptimes. They could lower their hp and/or make them susceptible to conditions, shorten some cooldowns and make their cooldowns recharge while they’re down up to a certain amount (let’s say, 50% of the cooldown – they would be generally easier to defeat, and doing it quickly would take them out for a bit and put the engineer in a pinch, but at the same time this guarantees that properly defended ones will be usable most of the time; maybe rework fortified turret onto overcharge use as well, to avoid issues). And they could shift power from the turret autoattack to the overcharges (albeit, shifting too much power could make them too bursty). Or even changing how overcharges work at all (something like "weak autoattack normal mode -> using overcharge makes it work nicely for a certain amount of time (after that it goes on forced weak autoattack mode for a bit) -> using again the skill during overcharge releases a strong attack, but forces the weak autoattack mode for a longer period of time).

Lifestealer.4910:

Also alot of “counters” people list are quite laughable even, ranging turrets down with lb as a warrior?.. because those turrets can’t hit you right?.. or the engineer can’t hit you still right?.. and how long will that take?.. the match would be over by the time you destroy all the turrets with your pitiful longbow damage.

If you’re getting killed by Turret Engineer as Hambow Warrior, then it’s a sign, that Hambow needs to be buffed and turrets perma disabled.

Tao.5096:

Lifestealer.4910:

Also alot of “counters” people list are quite laughable even, ranging turrets down with lb as a warrior?.. because those turrets can’t hit you right?.. or the engineer can’t hit you still right?.. and how long will that take?.. the match would be over by the time you destroy all the turrets with your pitiful longbow damage.

If you’re getting killed by Turret Engineer as Hambow Warrior, then it’s a sign, that Hambow needs to be buffed and turrets perma disabled.

From my experience most players that cry about specifc “OP” builds are players that refuse to change their playstyle/class/build and expect it to overcome everything.

The problem is that with good placement, even MS won’t hit more than one of the turrets (and the engi will just laugh taking no damage off point).

The turrets just have too much HP (and being immune to condis is just terrible design), it’s like playing 2.5 players on that point.

All the while as you try to dislodge him from the point, his team is wracking up the score, and therein lies the real problem- he will hold the point for 1-5 minutes scoring points, then you’ll cap and they will decap a minute later.

Having to kill some ai before you can even get near either the player or the point just isn’t good game design, especially when the ai ignores half the damage in the game and has more tankiness than most of the players on the field.

Victory.2879:

-Sniff-

So you’re saying that engineer will laugh because he get no damage while outside of the point, but at the same time he’ll score points from that point for 1~5mins while fighting you?

Sir, can you share information about your Rank Level?

I am Faux, Lord of the Turrets. http://i.imgur.com/J2Yu7nx.jpg?1?7599
Have no fear peasants even if they nerf turrets into the ground it will always be viable. I play 0/0/0/0/0/0 cause i enjoy the handicap, not just the mental one.

GodHasResigned.5720:

I am Faux, Lord of the Turrets. http://i.imgur.com/J2Yu7nx.jpg?1?7599
Have no fear peasants even if they nerf turrets into the ground it will always be viable. I play 0/0/0/0/0/0 cause i enjoy the handicap, not just the mental one.

Sad, i do not think nerf turrents to the ground is solution, i think engineer turrents need some adjustment that is all. Example: it is like make adjust to car engine and parts, in the end, the car can still go fast but not super fast:turbo like before. Make Adjustment is good thing, it help keep competition in control. Here is something i want share with you “Is Competition Good or Bad?” http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/benefits-competition/competition-good-or-bad

Slight adjustment won’t cut it for this bot build.

Either complete rework of the entire build or completely butcher it would be the answer by any other truely competitive pvp games.

Pretty sure turret engis are suppose to dominate 1v1. Same for other 1v1 spec classes. You see very few of these classes in tpvp because they all have weaknesses… for turret engi’s it’s being completely dependant on their turrets as well as not being very mobile.

Sorry if you guys hate it for being a brain dead build. It is what it is. Sorry others can’t 1v1 it.. it still isnt OP.

One Good Player can demolish a turret Engi. Two Good Players can do it quicker. Those who say Turret Engi is OP because they can 1v3 or 1v4… that’s the same as Condi Guard 1v2 or 1v3ing people. If it happens then those guys were simply bad. Plain and simple.

Obviously Turret Engi is a brain dead build. I’m sure Anet would rework these turrets in a way so using them would be tougher

Turret build is extremely good 1v1 and is wonderful in a team setting. It’s ability to bunker on a point is insane. Even someone that is mediocre normally becomes tough as nails to kill. It requires too little effort to be as good as it is.

PvP Specialist here.

I had a few questions about this topic:

I also wanted to outline a few facts about turrets just so everyone understands them:

i might be wrong, but don’t they melt to conditions.
at least thats what i switch to when i see turrets, and they just jump around helplessly and die..
sure they are extremly op against power builds.

Simon.3794:

i might be wrong, but don’t they melt to conditions.
at least thats what i switch to when i see turrets, and they just jump around helplessly and die..
sure they are extremly op against power builds.

They are strong against most zerker builds because those builds have to sacrifice survivability for raw damage and the turrets wreck them. They are strong against condition builds because conditions do not damage/cc the turrets and the engi can focus on building for survivability/high health etc because turrets.

They are strong 1vs1 because turrets, they are strong in a group because turrets, and they excel fighting on a point- where most of the fighting occurs and where the fighting is most important because turrets.

Other really easy builds like shoutheal warrior don’t have so many problems against them because of a mix of high health, regen, cc, and, condition cleanses, and condition damage.

Yasha.5963:

Simon.3794:

i might be wrong, but don’t they melt to conditions.
at least thats what i switch to when i see turrets, and they just jump around helplessly and die..
sure they are extremly op against power builds.

They are strong against most zerker builds because those builds have to sacrifice survivability for raw damage and the turrets wreck them. They are strong against condition builds because conditions do not damage/cc the turrets and the engi can focus on building for survivability/high health etc because turrets.

They are strong 1vs1 because turrets, they are strong in a group because turrets, and they excel fighting on a point- where most of the fighting occurs and where the fighting is most important because turrets.

Other really easy builds like shoutheal warrior don’t have so many problems against them because of a mix of high health, regen, cc, and, condition cleanses, and condition damage.

you can try condi builds, after healing turret, they melt in seconds, you don’t even need to care about turrets. i haven’t met a single turret that goes well against condition builds.

problem about turret, it’s extremely no skill but exmtrely good against any power build, and last extremly long.

@Simon: Any turret engi with half a brain and decent build will not melt in seconds against conditions, and those conditions will be useless against the turrets.

Yasha.5963:

@Simon: Any turret engi with half a brain and decent build will not melt in seconds against conditions, and those conditions will be useless against the turrets.

There’s only so much a brain can stop conditions with a single condi clear every 20 seconds, and 2 dodges and no weapon swap. It really comes down to determining if the conditions user “has a brain”. It might not be as fast as killing someone with 15k hp, but they’re not doing a whole lot of resisting.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

PvP Specialist here.

Do you think the skill floor is too high? – Skill floor is how strong the build is for someone just starting the build. What accounts for this high skill floor?
Where do you think the skill of turret engineer comes in? – I don’t think the skill floor and ceiling are as close as people think. If the devs were to really enforce skill in a certain aspect of this build, where do you think it should be?

“Some skills respect aftercast delays, while others override them… … there’s no guaranteed way to know if a skill will respect the delay of another skill or cancel it other than trying…” – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aftercast_delay

That is where the game is unfortunately on the skill gap in general. They need to focus on the consistency the cancel mechanic has over the aftercast delay.

The turret engi is this games noobtube.

Turret Engi just op in cap duel i don’t think it will make more help in team battle -_-!

Tao.5096:

Victory.2879:

-Sniff-

So you’re saying that engineer will laugh because he get no damage while outside of the point, but at the same time he’ll score points from that point for 1~5mins while fighting you?

Sir, can you share information about your Rank Level?

The example was of casting a MS as an ele onto the engi, or one or more of his turrets (if you’re lucky you’ll damage two with MS), which the engi avoids by moving out of the field of MS, which probably means he steps off the point for the duration of the MS, then merrily steps back on,still holding the point, still clocking points.

Sorry if my brief description in the previous post was not detailed enough.

Lifestealer.4910:

Slight adjustment won’t cut it for this bot build.

Either complete rework of the entire build or completely butcher it would be the answer by any other truely competitive pvp games.

I did not say slight, i said adjustment, adjustment can be any size. Whatever size of adjustment engineer need to make it challenge class, need be done.

Turrets are really just kind of annoying. Not really too bad if you know how to beat them but I’m not gonna lie I don’t support AI based builds in this game (save Mesmer due to that being the class mechanic). Sure they’re beatable but the fact that some of them perform very well even with a low amount of skill honestly I think calls for a slight change to make the spec either a little more difficult to play with more reward for playing it right or a slight decrease to the direct damage dealt so it’s more of just a cc spam class with boons making it a full bunker, not a bunker that melts you without touching you because it has turrets shooting you.

To summarize, don’t nerf but change to make more engaging to play and fight or SLIGHTLY tone down the damage so it’s not such a hard fight for melee classes with no ranged options in their build due to design of the class (i.e dd ele)

Victory.2879:

Tao.5096:

Victory.2879:

-Sniff-

So you’re saying that engineer will laugh because he get no damage while outside of the point, but at the same time he’ll score points from that point for 1~5mins while fighting you?

Sir, can you share information about your Rank Level?

The example was of casting a MS as an ele onto the engi, or one or more of his turrets (if you’re lucky you’ll damage two with MS), which the engi avoids by moving out of the field of MS, which probably means he steps off the point for the duration of the MS, then merrily steps back on,still holding the point, still clocking points.

Sorry if my brief description in the previous post was not detailed enough.

And what about it?
You stand in middle of point and cast MS. If engi step outside, then you’ll neutralize the point, which basically means, you contributed for your team, because enemy team doesn’t gain points from that point.

It’s ironic that the best way to beat a cheesy turret build is to use another cheesy build with power ranger. One stands on point in safety and mindless use skills + AI support with the homing #esports_rocket. Another stands far off point in safety and mindless use skills + AI support with the homing #nobrain_pet.

good to know thumper turret alone has pretty much same hp of shatter mesmer with more armor and immune to conditions.

and it’s just an utility skill…

looks totally legit to me

how about buffing crate (That already is “I win” button btw) so it also drops 2 shout warriors 2 d/p thieves and a celestial d/d ele on the ground + the usual bunch of turrets?

I bet that for most forum’s users would still be fine..

Archaon.9524:

good to know thumper turret alone has pretty much same hp of shatter mesmer with more armor and immune to conditions.

and it’s just an utility skill…

looks totally legit to me

Legit comparison.

Archaon.9524:

how about buffing crate (That already is “I win” button btw) so it also drops 2 shout warriors 2 d/p thieves and a celestial d/d ele on the ground + the usual bunch of turrets?

If crate is “I win” button for you, then certainly you have much to improve in pvp.

240 posts = alot of people have fallen for this blatent bait thread. No way OP believes it and if they did they still wouldnt post it here unless they literally wanted to troll people.

So many arguments…let me add my 2c’s.

There is a reason you don’t see the Turret build at a high level tier.
The build is – as others have already pointed out – very potent at holding a specific point in a 1o1 situation, but it essentially leaves your team in a 4v5 situation on the other 2 nodes.
This is something you cannot allow at high tier. You can’t put yourself in a rotational disadvantage by default, because you play a Turret engi, as the other team will severely punish you for it (unless your skill level/tactical and field awareness is much higher than your opponents’ – which is not the case when we are talking about even-skilled individuals. Hence the l2p counter-argument ppl keep throwing at eachother).
Turret engies have a counterplay – rotate around them.

And this is where, in my opinion, the issue lies. The average soloQ’er is not always competent enough to realize this and nevertheless engages the Turret engi on point instead of +1’ing somewhere else. It doesn’t take much – simply a random Rambo in your team and your counterplay, the rotational advantage is gone.

I don’t think the issue is with the build itself. It’s more with the mid-tier PvP community who’d rather tryhard to kill that engi to prove a point – “not even cheese can stop me”

True, turret engie’s counterplay is a lot more dependent on your team as in requiring them to realize the fact they would do better +1’ing in another fight, but saying it doesn’t exist is just creating false impressions.

Granted, if it was a 1-1 node Conquest mode, Turret engies would be blatantly OP, but Conquest have 3 nodes, which means you’ll have a certain advantage as long as your teammates will realize it aswell – something soloQ’ing can’t grant you.

But in TeamQ, where rotations are checked and called out, a Turret engi is a hindrance to your opponent, as long as the two teams are equally skilled.
If that 4 player can still somehow manage to hold up your entire 5-man team, then we are not talking about equally skilled teams.

Don’t get me wrong, I get Phanta and what he says about promoting low mechanical skill-cap builds and how it is unhealthy. But let me turn it around.
Facing a turret engi forces you to rotate optimally if you want to win the match. That alone promotes a healthy development as in realizing what fights should be taken and what fights should be left in order to retaliate somewhere else.

It’s just that the average soloQ’er goes for kills rather than caps and for high numbers next to their names by the time the match ends – has a rather wrong mindset when it actually comes to Conquest.

Rickster.8752:

240 posts = alot of people have fallen for this blatent bait thread. No way OP believes it and if they did they still wouldnt post it here unless they literally wanted to troll people.

I love bait threads! Quoting specialists for the extra credits, though I admit it’s meaning will be lost on the masses.

Is this the Nerf turret Eng? Yes plz…Nerf it to Hell!!!

There are two aspects about Turret Engis that people are not discussing at all and it would be a good idea to point them out

First of all, one Turret Engi in a team is balanced and I see no problem here. The problems occur when there are two Turret Engis and here is why:

1. ~ Turret Utilities + Supply Crate = Automatic cap in your team’s favor
   Even if the Engis are bad and lose in the long run, Turrets + Supply Crate is the only method in the game that automatically forces all players off-point where they must forfeit that point until the Engi or Engis are dead. this is OP for conquest. Turret Engis “again two of them” can drop turrets around a point, off-point and leave that point entirely while still defending that point “effectively” might I add. Again, nothing else in the game can do this and it is OP for conquest. Remember that I said one Engi is balanced in my opinion, the problem occurs when there are two. This is when the turret play becomes exponentially rewarding and broken.

1. ~ Turrets draw hits away from actual players
   When two Turret Engis lay Turret Utilities and Supply Crates, it creates too many targets on-point and then suddenly AoE attacks that have “max number of targets 3 or 5” have a very difficult time targeting actual players who are also on-point. Many people don’t ever notice this but this is the main reason why many turrets on point becomes broken and there needs to be a fix in line for this.

• For issue #1: There should be some limit to how many turrets can be in play from a single team party of five. “exactly the way it worked with Ritualist spirits in GW1”

• For issue #2: All cleave & AoE should ALWAYS target priority player targets FIRST with it’s DPS ticks or cleaves BEFORE targeting random AI targets such as turrets, pets, minions, spirits. If 3 players are on-point in your face, every cleave should target those 3 players first before ever targeting anything else.

Honestly I’m all for learn to play but Turret Engie is a bit too strong at the moment. Either they need to have less CC or turrets need to be squishier. Turrets right now are just so much stronger than spirits/minions and can’t be crit, have really good regeneration.

My main problem is a turret engie requires an entire team to play around them. A bad turret engie can 1v1 long enough vs anybody to get help, a good turret engie will never lose a 1v1 you simply can’t cleave the engie and it’s turrets down between all the CC. Also the ability for an engie to influence a fight while being across the map is too strong. Personally I think a solid solution would be turrets become inactive if a ranger isn’t within a certain range of them.

@Trevor: and this is why I say, that it forces your team to make the most optimal rotations thus helping developing a somewhat healthier Conquest environment, if you are willing to learn (from your mistakes). Problem is, ppl more often than not ragequit and rant rather than admitting that they’ve made a mistake. Such as the nature of casual players, which makes most of GW2’s playerbase – even in PvP.

Turret engies are extremely vulnerable while on the move – others have pointed that one out. The key when facing a double turret engi comp (close-far usually as mid points are generally the least optimal for them to be at) is that your close point defender should be on his toe and prevent the engie to get to the point. even if that means temporarily leaving the point itself. If the turret engi unloads his turrets on open terrain to defend himself, he’s as good as dead. if not, he’s as good as a sparring dummy.
Kill him (the far point assaulter) before he reaches the point and you not only get a 4v5, but a 3v5 in your team’s favour and you will be safe to +1 at mid or rotate 2 from mid to the enemy’s home to gank that turret and have the close point defender reinforce mid with fresh cd’s.

Facing turret comps (with 1 or 2 turrets, doesn’t matter) require rather tactical insight than mechanical skills advantage – which the vast majority of GW2’s playerbase don’t have or don’t like to rely on. Hence why bruiser meta became a thing as questionable or even down wrong rotations don’t have such severe consequences compared to the tank/pain-train meta.
The playerbase, even at top tier, shifted towards laying focus on having better mechanical skills (and thus winning 1v1s and 2v2s rather than bigger teamfights while backcapping) rather than tactically outsmarting your opponent.
Turret engie comps triumph over this mentality as successfully facing them does not depend on whether you are superior mechanical skill-wise, but rather whether you have the tactical insight to make the right calls rotation-wise.

Oh and I completey agree with Fix #2, not because of turrets, but just based on general AI builds.

@NinjaSonic: My main problem is a turret engie requires an entire team to play around them.
Completely agree with this sentence. Which is why it is mainly a pain in the rear to face them in soloQ (even in ranked) with the random Rambos in your team, whilest it is quite laughable once you have a decent, organized team, who know what they are doing.

Make no mistake you two, I do share in the tears playing mainly soloQ and the disgust against turreteers quite passionately and I do think that the build itself promote low skillbased playstyle and that it should be completely removed, because it is just outright bad.
Not because it breaks PvP, or Conquest, but because it is an unfun and quite boring build both to play and to play against.

@glorius: I never said Turret Engi was OP or that it was so difficult to play around them. I simply pointed out the broken mechanics about Turret Engi. Whether a class is OP or under-powered, broken mechanics should be pointed out regardless.

And about this idea that it is so easy to down Turret Engis before they get on points:
A lot easier said than done when the Turret Engi actually knows how to use a Turret Engi and god forbid he has a decent team. With so many pin downs and immobiles on one class, not to mention speedy kits, tool-kit shield, elixir S and things like jump shot" it isn’t very difficult to stop a single attacker from off-point DPSing you while you very quickly rotate back on-point. Let’s also not forget about the growing popularity of portal entre play.

Ultimately, the problem is that one Turret Engi + more Turret Engis is able to stack potency and it is rewarding “in a certain manner” for playing a five man comp using only Engineers. The more Engi the more turrets which gives more blast finishers and CCs, granting more AoE water field team heals and A LOT more random AI objects to create an unintended method of damage mitigation by soaking up a cleave or AoE’s “5 target limit”. This method of unintended damage mitigation is very strong mind you, stronger than any aegis, protection or block in the game. Hell it’s even better than dodge rolling.

Again, simply fixes I mention in my first post.
The class doesn’t need any nerfing, it just needs some rules and limitations vs. stacking multiple AI wielding Engineers on a single team.