Guild Wars 2

I still can’t justify using it over Strength or Hoelbrak. The marriage between the d/d trait structure, might based runes and celestial amulet is the closest you can get to a flawless alignment of synergies. The build is near perfect that the downed state becomes the least of my concern.

This is why I’m not in favor of gutting the d/d ele. Let me remind you that the devs do not nerf, they gut. Instead, what I’d really like to see is a buff on the classes that are trailing behind. I don’t know if any class could reach the level of near perfection as the d/d ele but I’d be very happy if the gaps were made smaller.

A few reasons:

1. Vampirism runes are bugged with vapor form.
2. They give you a few seconds to get your cooldowns, especially water attunement, back up.
3. If you’re in team fights more than 1v1s, the immunity gives allies a chance to peel for you.

If you’re in 1v1s a lot, then strength is probably better.

abc.5790:

Let me remind you that the devs do not nerf, they gut.

Gut away.

abc.5790:

what I’d really like to see is a buff on the classes that are trailing behind.

Power creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Buff the necessary, nerf the necessary. No one should be good at everything.

meow one twenty.4376:

abc.5790:

what I’d really like to see is a buff on the classes that are trailing behind.

Power creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Buff the necessary, nerf the necessary. No one should be good at everything.

You know it’s interesting how everyone on the team already feels spent and deflated before match begins when facing a team with 2 or more eles than you have.

I want it nerfed so bad so that players who let this and other overpowered cheesy meta builds carry their lack of real skill have to try and use their brain to come up something creative for once, instead of the same thing over and over again until you die a miserable death of boredom because GW2 is such a boring game that I find arguing and debating logic on these forums FAR more fun than playing the kitten game itself these days.

They should rework this rune a kitten

ange 4th stat for 25% chance on struck to grant might, fury and swiftness for 10sec(20sec cd).

It’ll finally be viable and at the right spot to rival Strength and Hoelbrak.

/kewl murican english anet, treating b.i.t as profanity.

nearlight.3064:

I want it nerfed so bad so that players who let this and other overpowered cheesy meta builds carry their lack of real skill have to try and use their brain to come up something creative for once, instead of the same thing over and over again until you die a miserable death of boredom because GW2 is such a boring game that I find arguing and debating logic on these forums FAR more fun than playing the kitten game itself these days.

Can’t disagree with you. I think your necro were in the same team as my alt engie just a few matches ago. I swapped to my alt warrior to counter one of the cheese builds. I multiclass but consider the necro as my main. When playing a non OP class, it’s mind boggling how much more effort you have to put in to be as effective as one of the cheese builds

Vapour.7348:

meow one twenty.4376:

abc.5790:

what I’d really like to see is a buff on the classes that are trailing behind.

Power creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Buff the necessary, nerf the necessary. No one should be good at everything.

You know it’s interesting how everyone on the team already feels spent and deflated before match begins when facing a team with 2 or more eles than you have.

I had a match last night, 3 eles and a mes on my team, with me as a Mes main. Before the match begun I had to DC because my kid woke up. After dealing with her logged back in, entered the match late, and we still won 500-100 -_-u

Ross Biddle.2367:

I had a match last night, 3 eles and a mes on my team, with me as a Mes main. Before the match begun I had to DC because my kid woke up. After dealing with her logged back in, entered the match late, and we still won 500-100 -_-u

Oh yeah, because there is no way that enemy team is made of bad players.

Enemy team is always filled with good players and they lose only because of some Rune, sigil or cat’s sneeze.

do EVERYONE use vampirism runes? YES. it counters power damage and getting one shot in this state of the game. its not like eles started using it at first because it bugs.

nearlight.3064:

I want it nerfed so bad so that players who let this and other overpowered cheesy meta builds carry their lack of real skill have to try and use their brain to come up something creative for once, instead of the same thing over and over again until you die a miserable death of boredom because GW2 is such a boring game that I find arguing and debating logic on these forums FAR more fun than playing the kitten game itself these days.

Feel the same.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Vapour.7348:

meow one twenty.4376:

abc.5790:

what I’d really like to see is a buff on the classes that are trailing behind.

Power creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Buff the necessary, nerf the necessary. No one should be good at everything.

You know it’s interesting how everyone on the team already feels spent and deflated before match begins when facing a team with 2 or more eles than you have.

I had a match last night, 3 eles and a mes on my team, with me as a Mes main. Before the match begun I had to DC because my kid woke up. After dealing with her logged back in, entered the match late, and we still won 500-100 -_-u

Ouch.

Made me think of times when I’d get mixed in with people like that team you went against.

something i realized during the last beta weekend was the strength of reapers and how heralds slowly outdamage eles. now i won’t say that d/d is perfectly balanced (in regards to skill <→ reward) but if they indeed nerf them without compensating them otherwise (i would love a meta where dps ele would finally be viable) then ele will disappear from the pvp meta as a whole.

reaper pretty much counters d/d ele, i tested this with a necro friend, both 2000+ games on our respective classes. all the chill, the transfers, corrupts and direct damage a reaper can make use of will kill an ele over time.

on the other hand, i have played on herald and i have played on d/d ele against it, if you use your evades, blocks and cleanses well enough you can keep yourself from dying while you slowly outdamage a d/d ele.

counters are on the way

Just realized this now but op, mad props on the use of reverse psychology on this post.

Jekkt.6045:

something i realized during the last beta weekend was the strength of reapers and how heralds slowly outdamage eles. now i won’t say that d/d is perfectly balanced (in regards to skill <-> reward) but if they indeed nerf them without compensating them otherwise (i would love a meta where dps ele would finally be viable) then ele will disappear from the pvp meta as a whole.

reaper pretty much counters d/d ele, i tested this with a necro friend, both 2000+ games on our respective classes. all the chill, the transfers, corrupts and direct damage a reaper can make use of will kill an ele over time.

on the other hand, i have played on herald and i have played on d/d ele against it, if you use your evades, blocks and cleanses well enough you can keep yourself from dying while you slowly outdamage a d/d ele.

counters are on the way

yeah a necro can kill a dd ele with one specific build “over time” a verry long time… time enough for one of its 4 friends to walk over and +1 you and if its 2x dd eles then having a team mate with you does not mean equal chances.

Jekkt.6045:

something i realized during the last beta weekend was the strength of reapers and how heralds slowly outdamage eles. now i won’t say that d/d is perfectly balanced (in regards to skill <-> reward) but if they indeed nerf them without compensating them otherwise (i would love a meta where dps ele would finally be viable) then ele will disappear from the pvp meta as a whole.

reaper pretty much counters d/d ele, i tested this with a necro friend, both 2000+ games on our respective classes. all the chill, the transfers, corrupts and direct damage a reaper can make use of will kill an ele over time.

on the other hand, i have played on herald and i have played on d/d ele against it, if you use your evades, blocks and cleanses well enough you can keep yourself from dying while you slowly outdamage a d/d ele.

counters are on the way

Boon hate is getting more common?

Tao.1234:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I had a match last night, 3 eles and a mes on my team, with me as a Mes main. Before the match begun I had to DC because my kid woke up. After dealing with her logged back in, entered the match late, and we still won 500-100 -_-u

Oh yeah, because there is no way that enemy team is made of bad players.

Enemy team is always filled with good players and they lose only because of some Rune, sigil or cat’s sneeze.

Since it was ele daily, I was actually really worried I might have a team full of kitten ing ele alts.

I know I like to kitten with a full zerk staff ele somtimes ;D

Still, ele op, nerf diamond skin, nerf burning stacks, ticks, sustain, remove cele ammy, nerf cc, might stacking, etc.

Sagat.3285:

Jekkt.6045:

something i realized during the last beta weekend was the strength of reapers and how heralds slowly outdamage eles. now i won’t say that d/d is perfectly balanced (in regards to skill <-> reward) but if they indeed nerf them without compensating them otherwise (i would love a meta where dps ele would finally be viable) then ele will disappear from the pvp meta as a whole.

reaper pretty much counters d/d ele, i tested this with a necro friend, both 2000+ games on our respective classes. all the chill, the transfers, corrupts and direct damage a reaper can make use of will kill an ele over time.

on the other hand, i have played on herald and i have played on d/d ele against it, if you use your evades, blocks and cleanses well enough you can keep yourself from dying while you slowly outdamage a d/d ele.

counters are on the way

Boon hate is getting more common?

Hardly. Boon hate should be way more common than it actually is, however the problem is that the only classes that make thematic sense to have boon hate already have it (necro, Mesmer, revenant, and thief a little bit). Furthermore, none of the elite specs feature boon removal in the slightest, aside from one reape shout. Revenant has boon removal with Mallyx and corruption, but doesn’t have any chance to outpace them for that role unless they spam banish enchantment with 3+ condis on them.

I am kind of disappointed that no elite spec has boon removal as a feature. And I highly doubt Druid and forge are going to be boon crunching machines.

Exedore.6320:

A few reasons:

1. Vampirism runes are bugged with vapor form.
2. They give you a few seconds to get your cooldowns, especially water attunement, back up.
3. If you’re in team fights more than 1v1s, the immunity gives allies a chance to peel for you.

If you’re in 1v1s a lot, then strength is probably better.

Very well put. To add to the explanation, a well-played D/D ele will win MOST 1v1’s with either strength OR vampirism, but vampirism allows you to either:

A. recover from a massive mistake
B. Survive a surprise burst when getting +1’d, which you can then use your mobility to gtfo and survive. With vampirism it is VERY hard to actually kill a d/d ele unless they stick around in an ill-timed fight or mismanaged cooldowns.

Also, because of the life-transfer proc, vampirism both increases sustain while keeping damage relatively close compared to strength. Seeing as burst is a major weakness of eles, taking vamp. is a way to cover that weakness, whereas strength is a means of accentuating your strong-points.

nearlight.3064:

I want it nerfed so bad so that players who let this and other overpowered cheesy meta builds carry their lack of real skill have to try and use their brain to come up something creative for once, instead of the same thing over and over again until you die a miserable death of boredom because GW2 is such a boring game that I find arguing and debating logic on these forums FAR more fun than playing the kitten game itself these days.

You do realize, there is ALWAYS 1 build that outperforms others, and that one will ALWAYS see more play. Honestly, the amount that d/d ele outperforms the next-best option isn’t as high as other builds in the past. It DOES need adjustments, but when that does happens, all the people riding the ele train will just hop on the next FoTM train – usually something very tanky with a lot of easy damage and great sustain without much thought.

Jekkt.6045:

something i realized during the last beta weekend was the strength of reapers and how heralds slowly outdamage eles. now i won’t say that d/d is perfectly balanced (in regards to skill <-> reward) but if they indeed nerf them without compensating them otherwise (i would love a meta where dps ele would finally be viable) then ele will disappear from the pvp meta as a whole.

reaper pretty much counters d/d ele, i tested this with a necro friend, both 2000+ games on our respective classes. all the chill, the transfers, corrupts and direct damage a reaper can make use of will kill an ele over time.

on the other hand, i have played on herald and i have played on d/d ele against it, if you use your evades, blocks and cleanses well enough you can keep yourself from dying while you slowly outdamage a d/d ele.

counters are on the way

Saying that ele doesn’t need considerable nerfs because you can pay $50 for something that might compete (I don’t see herald doing that at all by the way) is laughable. The whole reaper point is redundant considering celestial necro “can” already beat celestial ele (spoiler: it’s because they’re both in the same overpowered tier).

Anyways my point is that you cannot justify elementalist not needing to be heavily nerfed simply because there’s literally one other build that can beat it. I said this last meta when people tried defending celestial engie by saying condi necro countered it, or celestial warrior by saying 60206 d/p thief could 1v1 it- the existence of one or two (hard)counters is essentially a complete non sequitur when it comes to builds that can effectively steamroll everything else.

Fire magic, water magic, and arcana all need nerfs. d/d weapon skills need nerfs. d/d’s might stacking potential needs nerfs.

There is absolutely nothing slight about the quantity of nerfs d/d ele needs. the closest candidates for nerfs (cele necro, power mesmer) need slight nerfs. By comparison they need a weedwacker taken to them, cele ele needs an axe taken to it.

now that I have that out of my system onto the main post, hoelbrak is way better than vampirism for ele. even with the bug hoelbrak’s synergy with eles current might stacking nonsense and anti-condition capabilities is crazy strong. vampirism’s 4th is lost on eles anyways.

vampirism itself is fine. It’s essentially hoelbrak for those who can’t stack might, in terms of giving damage + some sustain. Anyone who thinks it’s broken needs to learn how to time attacks exactly with the end of mist form, it isn’t that hard and it’s a skill that carries over against elixir s!

sinject.4607:

Jekkt.6045:

something i realized during the last beta weekend was the strength of reapers and how heralds slowly outdamage eles. now i won’t say that d/d is perfectly balanced (in regards to skill <-> reward) but if they indeed nerf them without compensating them otherwise (i would love a meta where dps ele would finally be viable) then ele will disappear from the pvp meta as a whole.

reaper pretty much counters d/d ele, i tested this with a necro friend, both 2000+ games on our respective classes. all the chill, the transfers, corrupts and direct damage a reaper can make use of will kill an ele over time.

on the other hand, i have played on herald and i have played on d/d ele against it, if you use your evades, blocks and cleanses well enough you can keep yourself from dying while you slowly outdamage a d/d ele.

counters are on the way

Saying that ele doesn’t need considerable nerfs because you can pay $50 for something that might compete (I don’t see herald doing that at all by the way) is laughable. The whole reaper point is redundant considering celestial necro “can” already beat celestial ele (spoiler: it’s because they’re both in the same overpowered tier).

Anyways my point is that you cannot justify elementalist not needing to be heavily nerfed simply because there’s literally one other build that can beat it. I said this last meta when people tried defending celestial engie by saying condi necro countered it, or celestial warrior by saying 60206 d/p thief could 1v1 it- the existence of one or two (hard)counters is essentially a complete non sequitur when it comes to builds that can effectively steamroll everything else.

Fire magic, water magic, and arcana all need nerfs. d/d weapon skills need nerfs. d/d’s might stacking potential needs nerfs.

There is absolutely nothing slight about the quantity of nerfs d/d ele needs. the closest candidates for nerfs (cele necro, power mesmer) need slight nerfs. By comparison they need a weedwacker taken to them, cele ele needs an axe taken to it.

now that I have that out of my system onto the main post, hoelbrak is way better than vampirism for ele. even with the bug hoelbrak’s synergy with eles current might stacking nonsense and anti-condition capabilities is crazy strong. vampirism’s 4th is lost on eles anyways.

vampirism itself is fine. It’s essentially hoelbrak for those who can’t stack might, in terms of giving damage + some sustain. Anyone who thinks it’s broken needs to learn how to time attacks exactly with the end of mist form, it isn’t that hard and it’s a skill that carries over against elixir s!

seems like you don’t really know a lot about eles or about pvp. further argueing is futile so let’s just leave it at that.

now on topic:
vamp works well if you face a mes/thief combo or if you get moa’d, a bit situational.
hoelbrak is overall the better choice, also because it reduces chill and immobs, stuff that can kill or cripple you.

Vapour.7348:

Just realized this now but op, mad props on the use of reverse psychology on this post.

Not sure why you say that. I know abc is a bit eccentric but his argument on this thread is spot on. Things don’t turn up too well when devs decide to nerf a build. Good examples include necro after dhuumfire “balance” and more recently, the engineer. I don’t know if the game has enough life left over if it will take them as long as it did the necro to recover the engie.

That’s why it’s best if they leave the ele alone and buff other classes instead. I also like the idea of having more boon hate to further counter elementalists. But fully gutting them will do more harm than good. I agree that d/d eles are op but I’d rather have them be op with counters on the way than be useless.

I careless about d/d eles and will have no empathy if they were to become useless. They’ve been overly powerful for too long. As long as fresh air stays the same or perhaps get a buff, I careless if the d/d build were gutted

Vapour.7348:

I careless about d/d eles and will have no empathy if they were to become useless. They’ve been overly powerful for too long. As long as fresh air stays the same or perhaps get a buff, I careless if the d/d build were gutted

Smart players will always be overly powerful no matter the level of nerfs you hope for…you’ll see for yourself soon enough, have faith.

Supreme.3164:

Vapour.7348:

I careless about d/d eles and will have no empathy if they were to become useless. They’ve been overly powerful for too long. As long as fresh air stays the same or perhaps get a buff, I careless if the d/d build were gutted

Smart players will always be overly powerful no matter the level of nerfs you hope for…you’ll see for yourself soon enough, have faith.

A lot of smart players that main engineer have quit the game due to the destruction of its traits. On the opposite end, a lot of flavor of the month eles have emerged due to the overly powerful trait buffs it received.

This has nothing to do with being smart or what smart players do. This is not a L2P issue like a lot of people have with burn damage.

This is about a build so broken, that tournaments have implemented a maximum cap on stacking classes.

D/D ele can literally do everything and then some. It has no weakness and only 1 psuedo counter build. The psuedo counter build doesn’t even win consistently enough against to even call it a counter build really.

A smart player would take into account their own strengths, weaknesses, the enemies strengths and weaknesses, and adjust their play accordingly. D/D ele has no weakness, so they never have to adjust the way they play.

Vapour.7348:

Just realized this now but op, mad props on the use of reverse psychology on this post.

Not sure what you’re smoking but…

Buff d/d ele pls. Make blinding ashes baseline. Reaper a threat pls nerf. We don’t like chill, need more burns . Also pls make Vampire runes baseline so we can use Hoelbrak. That’s all we want. Don’t worry we will not ask for stealth yet.

Vampire rune bug fixed Sep 15 update according to Grouch

So now I wonder how many eles would still use it.

abc.5790:

Vapour.7348:

Just realized this now but op, mad props on the use of reverse psychology on this post.

Not sure what you’re smoking but…

Buff d/d ele pls. Make blinding ashes baseline. Reaper a threat pls nerf. We don’t like chill, need more burns . Also pls make Vampire runes baseline so we can use Hoelbrak. That’s all we want. Don’t worry we will not ask for stealth yet.

Ele needs 4th Utility slot since it doesn’t have two weapons. Engie doesn’t because kits are pretty much weapons.

meow one twenty.4376:

abc.5790:

Vapour.7348:

Just realized this now but op, mad props on the use of reverse psychology on this post.

Not sure what you’re smoking but…

Buff d/d ele pls. Make blinding ashes baseline. Reaper a threat pls nerf. We don’t like chill, need more burns . Also pls make Vampire runes baseline so we can use Hoelbrak. That’s all we want. Don’t worry we will not ask for stealth yet.

Ele needs 4th Utility slot since it doesn’t have two weapons. Engie doesn’t because kits are pretty much weapons.

The elites are too good replace with 4th utility slot that would teach them.

@ meow, sagat – ele underpowered pls make blinding ashes baseline. add f5 and f6 for extra utility and elite.

eles will suffer from reaper. pls nerf.

abc.5790:

@ meow, sagat – ele underpowered pls make blinding ashes baseline. add f5 and f6 for extra utility and elite.

eles will suffer from reaper. pls nerf.

Lol, people look so silly when they say my name.

Anyways, with an extra F5 and F6 it’s important to reduce cooldown on attunement swaps as a baseline so that people aren’t forced into particular rotations. Maybe Since Blinding Ashes is going to be baseline we can make a new Grandmaster with better passive play? Something like “When disabled/chilled/immobolized/looked at in a mean way, gain 150 Power for 5 seconds (5.01 second internal cooldown). Might is 10% more effective.”

striker.3704:

D/D ele can literally do everything and then some. It has no weakness and only 1 psuedo counter build. The psuedo counter build doesn’t even win consistently enough against to even call it a counter build really.

A smart player would take into account their own strengths, weaknesses, the enemies strengths and weaknesses, and adjust their play accordingly. D/D ele has no weakness, so they never have to adjust the way they play.

Ok I have to ask. How a weapon set makes a profession OP? D/D isn’t OP, it has weakness, have only one ranged attack which can be reflected. Long range weapons have advantage over it.

Now if you are talking about builds, that’s completely different.

In uncoordinated daily unranked/ranked play, vampirism is probably not needed for the dd eles. They can survive pretty well already. But I can see the vampirism rune being more important in top tier team plays where you actually have to face coordinated burst.

Sometimes you may actually die as a dd ele against unexpected burst, e.g. thief/mesmer cc/moa burst, thief gank after you exhaust your cooldowns, warrior rampage. For a good ele with vampirism rune, you can basically survive any type of 2v1 even if they use elite skills and have good coordination.

abc.5790:

I still can’t justify using it over Strength or Hoelbrak. The marriage between the d/d trait structure, might based runes and celestial amulet is the closest you can get to a flawless alignment of synergies. The build is near perfect that the downed state becomes the least of my concern.

This is why I’m not in favor of gutting the d/d ele. Let me remind you that the devs do not nerf, they gut. Instead, what I’d really like to see is a buff on the classes that are trailing behind. I don’t know if any class could reach the level of near perfection as the d/d ele but I’d be very happy if the gaps were made smaller.

We have enough power creep already, nerf ele.

Actually I pretty much dislike Vamp runes in general. While playing Thief and Ele with this, it killed me several times. Wanted to disengage, dropped below the threshold, couldn’t use any skills, got vaporized afterwards.

azyume.6321:

striker.3704:

D/D ele can literally do everything and then some. It has no weakness and only 1 psuedo counter build. The psuedo counter build doesn’t even win consistently enough against to even call it a counter build really.

A smart player would take into account their own strengths, weaknesses, the enemies strengths and weaknesses, and adjust their play accordingly. D/D ele has no weakness, so they never have to adjust the way they play.

Ok I have to ask. How a weapon set makes a profession OP? D/D isn’t OP, it has weakness, have only one ranged attack which can be reflected. Long range weapons have advantage over it.

Now if you are talking about builds, that’s completely different.

Yeah when I say D/D i’my talking about the offending build. I was also talking about build concepts in general.

Though GW2 is designed in a way where everyone can do everything but varying flavors, nobody should be able to do everything really well at the same time. That’s the reason we have to use am my stats in PvP to begin with. This is also why the soft trinity exists. If you want to build to bunker cool, but you can’t also have high mobility and damage as well.

Let me give an example with MM necromancer bunker:
-high sustain (lots of healing and siphoning, good condition removal, ect)
-durable (high health and toughness)
-good single target damage (can take down or chase away a lot of builds)

These are all base strengths of the basic death/blood trait combination. It also has base weaknesses too:
-poor AoE damage, weak to AoE damage
-no escape skills, 1 disengagement skill
-has no way of mitigating targeted pressure by 2+ players (reaper potentially can change this)

None of the above weaknesses can be corrected by adding any trait lines in without using a completely different build. This is a good thing. Regardless of minor differences in trait line prefferences, if you see a player running a particular type of build, you should be able to say without a doubt what their weakness is.

Cele D/D doesn’the really follow suit. It covers it’s options extremely well. Let’s talk about the two things that appear to be it’seems only lacking points:
-Short range
The cele ele doesn’the really need to be concerned with long range pressure. The lightning aura and fire aura let it outright stop a lot of damage for a minimum of 5 seconds between the two. The rest of the time it can passively heal back a lot of the damage with lightning whip or actively with water attunement. By this point it’seems won as far as the point goes. Let alone it’seems ability to close that gap regardless of terrain.

-Boon hate
Boon hate is the reason signet necromancer is seen as a counter build. However cele ele reapplies boons so easily, and clenses conditions from corrupted boons so easily, it’s more of a minor annoyance really.

By no means do I think.everything on D/D should be nerfed, but it needs to pick an identity and stick with it.

abc.5790:

Vampire rune bug fixed Sep 15 update according to Grouch

So now I wonder how many eles would still use it.

Lemme ask you this…

Will you use vamp runes on engie?

We tested it out a few min ago and the new ele bug got fixed by the old engie bug.

Here’s a recent SS

More SS on page 2
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/ESL-Go4-Cup-44-Rule-Update-READ/

They should probably make Vamp Runes purchasable only with gems in sPvP, because wow they are bug infested crutches.

No way. No just no. Are y’all serious?
I’m going to try it now while on this long queue.

Anet will make a killing off of fotm eles if celestial ammy and vamp runes were sold thru the gemstore.