Guild Wars 2

I am certain it brings variety but do rewards attract skill?

It attracts new players, who in turn may become invested in the mode and later become skilled.

Skill doesn’t just pop into existence from nothing.

Crab Fear.1624:

I am certain it brings variety but do rewards attract skill?

For me I had done very little PvP until a couple of weeks ago. The shinys was the draw for me. Ascended armor for another toon. However I got sucked into actually liking the PvP aspect of the game and since you have to play unranked until 20 you either understand how to play and your role or you don’t.

I focused on Necro and Ranger and hold my own quite often and have a lot of fun on my almost done with the reward containers for the season. I also witness some horrendous play styles and builds that cost you matches.

Instead of getting salty about it I just come to realize that everyone who owns the game has the right to play whatever content they want the way they want. I decided to try and be as pro a I can and it has been a long time since someone has been hostile of me during a match.

From what I’ve personally noticed since ANet started to bribe PvEers to PvP in ranked in Season 1. GW2’s PvP match quality took a complete nose dive and has been getting worst and worst ever since. Now that is coming from a, ex dedicated GW2 PvP player who had 20 plus active PvP friends at one point. Who now sucks at this game from lack of practice, and playing.

Again since you’ve asked this question I can only talk from my personal view. The PvE rewards mixed with the lack of PvP support in GW2 has me with a friends list of a bunch of inactive friends. And now I struggle to play GW2 for longer then one hour at a time at best.

To me the huge PvE rewards helped big time, in completely destroying PvP in GW2 for me. To the point it forced me to look for PvP elsewhere. But meh what do ANet cares, I expect this to be infracted, by the admins, and then ban me from the forums for one month, just for the kittens and giggles.

TL;DL

Bringing huge PvE rewards into PvP. Has completely made the game mode for me and my old PvP friends who no longer PvPs in GW2, boring and close to unplayable. Because the match quality was decreased by many many folds.

Reaper Alim.4176:

To me the huge PvE rewards helped big time, in completely destroying PvP in GW2 for me. To the point it forced me to look for PvP elsewhere. But meh what do ANet cares, I expect this to be infracted, by the admins, and then ban me from the forums for one month, just for the kittens and giggles.

You do realize that in the past there were many complaints from PvP’rs that they thought it was unfair to get some cool looking armor / wep skins that were available for the dungeoneers and such. “I do not do PvE but am forced to in order to get PvE stuff” has been and is in the forums. Even as a PvE’r I never got the stuff because I just can’t dedicate that much time. PvP gives me a better opportunity to get those now. HOWEVER like I mentioned above, I decided to “git gud” though my rank does not seem to reflect that I am a much better skilled PvPr than that rank shows.

Reaper Alim.4176:

From what I’ve personally noticed since ANet started to bribe PvEers to PvP in ranked in Season 1. GW2’s PvP match quality took a complete nose dive and has been getting worst and worst ever since. Now that is coming from a, ex dedicated GW2 PvP player who had 20 plus active PvP friends at one point. Who now sucks at this game from lack of practice, and playing.

Again since you’ve asked this question I can only talk from my personal view. The PvE rewards mixed with the lack of PvP support in GW2 has me with a friends list of a bunch of inactive friends. And now I struggle to play GW2 for longer then one hour at a time at best.

To me the huge PvE rewards helped big time, in completely destroying PvP in GW2 for me. To the point it forced me to look for PvP elsewhere. But meh what do ANet cares, I expect this to be infracted, by the admins, and then ban me from the forums for one month, just for the kittens and giggles.

TL;DL

Bringing huge PvE rewards into PvP. Has completely made the game mode for me and my old PvP friends who no longer PvPs in GW2, boring and close to unplayable. Because the match quality was decreased by many many folds.

Holy hyperbole. You are good.

Honestly with your attitude including past post, i am glad arena net decided to focus on making the game mode more attractive rather than cuddle your fragile ego.

At the very least they learned this basic mistake from Gw1. While having veterans is nice, it is always better to try and bring in more players. In gw1, vets made it impossible for new players to join by automatically rejecting any player with low R. Eventually, as veterans left no veterans replaced them and PvP died faster than it necessary.

Crinn.7864:

It attracts new players, who in turn may become invested in the mode and later become skilled.

Skill doesn’t just pop into existence from nothing.

This. One of the contributing factors to bad match quality is a lack of population. The rewards are there to attract new players.

No new players = dead game mode.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Reaper Alim.4176:

From what I’ve personally noticed since ANet started to bribe PvEers to PvP in ranked in Season 1. GW2’s PvP match quality took a complete nose dive and has been getting worst and worst ever since. Now that is coming from a, ex dedicated GW2 PvP player who had 20 plus active PvP friends at one point. Who now sucks at this game from lack of practice, and playing.

Again since you’ve asked this question I can only talk from my personal view. The PvE rewards mixed with the lack of PvP support in GW2 has me with a friends list of a bunch of inactive friends. And now I struggle to play GW2 for longer then one hour at a time at best.

To me the huge PvE rewards helped big time, in completely destroying PvP in GW2 for me. To the point it forced me to look for PvP elsewhere. But meh what do ANet cares, I expect this to be infracted, by the admins, and then ban me from the forums for one month, just for the kittens and giggles.

TL;DL

Bringing huge PvE rewards into PvP. Has completely made the game mode for me and my old PvP friends who no longer PvPs in GW2, boring and close to unplayable. Because the match quality was decreased by many many folds.

Holy hyperbole. You are good.

Honestly with your attitude including past post, i am glad arena net decided to focus on making the game mode more attractive rather than cuddle your fragile ego.

At the very least they learned this basic mistake from Gw1. While having veterans is nice, it is always better to try and bring in more players. In gw1, vets made it impossible for new players to join by automatically rejecting any player with low R. Eventually, as veterans left no veterans replaced them and PvP died faster than it necessary.

But you will never be able to deny the fact that GW1 PvP was and will remain far superior in terms of quality..and numbers:

1) 30+ Top Teams = Check
2) Mouthwatering display of skill on screen= Check
3) Simple Team arena matches watched by hundreds of people = Check
4) Multiple game mode with hundreds of players each = Check
5) Huge build diversity at any level = Check
6) PvP scene lasting more than 5 years = Check

..Now pls try to replicate these numbers with GW2…pls just try it, especially point 6..I mean…GW2 PvP already on his deathbed after only 3 years….actually it has been a declining element since couple of year ago…you can’t even touch GW1.

You talk about GW1 elitism as a bad thing…it had its disadvantages but the main benefit was filtering of true pvpers from the rest.

Those seriously in love with the idea of pvp, were able to wait weeks begging in chat for a chance despite having Rank 0 ( I did that for 3 weeks before a guy gave me a chance..and I ended my pvp life in gw1 at r8)

Players in gw1 had dedication…here they will launch a tantrum if they don’t get their “toy” after few matches or so…or will cry if they wait for more than 5m on queue…………….-_-…………yeah I’d rather have that “elitism” back ty

Out of 30 pvers who come to pvp…28 are in for the shiny reward and will leave after, those 2 who remain will instead become the pvpers of tomorrow…those “elitist jerks” in GW1 would have simply pushed those 28 pvers out of pvp that much quicker than wait for them to simply leave

Reaper Alim.4176:

From what I’ve personally noticed since ANet started to bribe PvEers to PvP in ranked in Season 1. GW2’s PvP match quality took a complete nose dive and has been getting worst and worst ever since.

You talk about GW1 elitism as a bad thing…it had its disadvantages but the main benefit was filtering of true pvpers from the rest.

I find the term, “True PvPer” amusing in this context. I’ve been called most of the names in the book and been singled out as an example of a non “competitive” player by an ESL player.

Yet, I have over 300 games this season and am here playing most days of the week. I’ve invested hundreds of USD in gaming gear. What do I need to do to reach the exalted state of “true pvper?”

Seriously though, this attitude is not productive. PvP needs players, even if having classes that are a bit less difficult to play and some pve rewards annoys some of the players.

Supreme.3164:

You talk about GW1 elitism as a bad thing…it had its disadvantages but the main benefit was filtering of true pvpers from the rest.

And it did filter them… right out into oblivion.

Supreme.3164:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Reaper Alim.4176:

snip.

Holy hyperbole. You are good.

Honestly with your attitude including past post, i am glad arena net decided to focus on making the game mode more attractive rather than cuddle your fragile ego.

At the very least they learned this basic mistake from Gw1. While having veterans is nice, it is always better to try and bring in more players. In gw1, vets made it impossible for new players to join by automatically rejecting any player with low R. Eventually, as veterans left no veterans replaced them and PvP died faster than it necessary.

But you will never be able to deny the fact that GW1 PvP was and will remain far superior in terms of quality..and numbers:

1) 30+ Top Teams = Check
2) Mouthwatering display of skill on screen= Check
3) Simple Team arena matches watched by hundreds of people = Check
4) Multiple game mode with hundreds of players each = Check
5) Huge build diversity at any level = Check
6) PvP scene lasting more than 5 years = Check

..Now pls try to replicate these numbers with GW2…pls just try it, especially point 6..I mean…GW2 PvP already on his deathbed after only 3 years….actually it has been a declining element since couple of year ago…you can’t even touch GW1.

You talk about GW1 elitism as a bad thing…it had its disadvantages but the main benefit was filtering of true pvpers from the rest.

Those seriously in love with the idea of pvp, were able to wait weeks begging in chat for a chance despite having Rank 0 ( I did that for 3 weeks before a guy gave me a chance..and I ended my pvp life in gw1 at r8)

Players in gw1 had dedication…here they will launch a tantrum if they don’t get their “toy” after few matches or so…or will cry if they wait for more than 5m on queue…………….-_-…………yeah I’d rather have that “elitism” back ty

Out of 30 pvers who come to pvp…28 are in for the shiny reward and will leave after, those 2 who remain will instead become the pvpers of tomorrow…those “elitist jerks” in GW1 would have simply pushed those 28 pvers out of pvp that much quicker than wait for them to simply leave

Let me start by saying you miss the whole point of my post.

Guild wars 1 PvP was better. It had more builds in theory, more game modes and less competition in terms of PvP. None of these saved it from dying faster than guild wars 2. Guild wars 1 did such a great job at filtering Noobs from the true PvPers (special snowflake syndrome) that it killed itself. Even with Arena net constantly messing up PvP, Guild wars 2 is more alive after 4 years than guild wars 2 was alive after 2.5 years and gw2 has to contend with all those other PvP games.

Final, before complain about tantrums maybe look through your own post history. If you don’t want to, look at the front page, a lot of it is whining from true PvPer.

I don’t buy into the “true PvP’er” crap, and this witchhunting of PvE’ers seems more like people looking for a scapegoat than anything else.

Scrubbiness is not limited to PvE inclined players.

On this, I’ve just come back from GW1 where I observed some PvP matches.

Quite literally, nothing was happening. I watched one guild member complete a “flawless victory” by standing and doing nothing.

This is a good example of what happens when elitism is allowed to take over. I, for one, don’t think that “filtering out” players is a good idea.

Reaper Alim.4176:

From what I’ve personally noticed since ANet started to bribe PvEers to PvP in ranked in Season 1. GW2’s PvP match quality took a complete nose dive and has been getting worst and worst ever since. Now that is coming from a, ex dedicated GW2 PvP player who had 20 plus active PvP friends at one point. Who now sucks at this game from lack of practice, and playing.

Again since you’ve asked this question I can only talk from my personal view. The PvE rewards mixed with the lack of PvP support in GW2 has me with a friends list of a bunch of inactive friends. And now I struggle to play GW2 for longer then one hour at a time at best.

To me the huge PvE rewards helped big time, in completely destroying PvP in GW2 for me. To the point it forced me to look for PvP elsewhere. But meh what do ANet cares, I expect this to be infracted, by the admins, and then ban me from the forums for one month, just for the kittens and giggles.

TL;DL

Bringing huge PvE rewards into PvP. Has completely made the game mode for me and my old PvP friends who no longer PvPs in GW2, boring and close to unplayable. Because the match quality was decreased by many many folds.

Wahhh, talk about being negative. You do realize there is something called MMR right? If a new PvEer doesn’t know what he is doing he will quickly get placed in low bonze. You, as an experienced PVPer can basically avoiding him the entire season except maybe the first couple of their match.

There is only 2 ways that you get to play with him again:

1. If he has gotten good enough to have the similar MMR as you, an experienced PVPer, which is what the system intended.
2. You have fallen so far down the MMR to be on his level. That’s also not bad since you don’t really want to be farmed by other more skilled PVPers.

Nah I think this guy has it about right. I started this season in high plat and then have had burst losing streaks for reasons like. A warrior going far on respawn and dieing. When asked why he responds with “im just here for the rewards” Had him for 5 games in a row…… I also had people playing poorly who would explain they are just here for the ascension.Had multiple games against double ESL duos with no one even decent on my team. had a 5 game loss streak because the same troll druid AFKd in base….. I started this season pretty positive…. Now im a jaded troll who just doesnt care who ends up on 4 or 5 peoples block list a day…..

PlatinumMember.5274:

Supreme.3164:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Reaper Alim.4176:

snip.

Holy hyperbole. You are good.

Honestly with your attitude including past post, i am glad arena net decided to focus on making the game mode more attractive rather than cuddle your fragile ego.

At the very least they learned this basic mistake from Gw1. While having veterans is nice, it is always better to try and bring in more players. In gw1, vets made it impossible for new players to join by automatically rejecting any player with low R. Eventually, as veterans left no veterans replaced them and PvP died faster than it necessary.

But you will never be able to deny the fact that GW1 PvP was and will remain far superior in terms of quality..and numbers:

1) 30+ Top Teams = Check
2) Mouthwatering display of skill on screen= Check
3) Simple Team arena matches watched by hundreds of people = Check
4) Multiple game mode with hundreds of players each = Check
5) Huge build diversity at any level = Check
6) PvP scene lasting more than 5 years = Check

..Now pls try to replicate these numbers with GW2…pls just try it, especially point 6..I mean…GW2 PvP already on his deathbed after only 3 years….actually it has been a declining element since couple of year ago…you can’t even touch GW1.

You talk about GW1 elitism as a bad thing…it had its disadvantages but the main benefit was filtering of true pvpers from the rest.

Those seriously in love with the idea of pvp, were able to wait weeks begging in chat for a chance despite having Rank 0 ( I did that for 3 weeks before a guy gave me a chance..and I ended my pvp life in gw1 at r8)

Players in gw1 had dedication…here they will launch a tantrum if they don’t get their “toy” after few matches or so…or will cry if they wait for more than 5m on queue…………….-_-…………yeah I’d rather have that “elitism” back ty

Out of 30 pvers who come to pvp…28 are in for the shiny reward and will leave after, those 2 who remain will instead become the pvpers of tomorrow…those “elitist jerks” in GW1 would have simply pushed those 28 pvers out of pvp that much quicker than wait for them to simply leave

Let me start by saying you miss the whole point of my post.

Guild wars 1 PvP was better. It had more builds in theory, more game modes and less competition in terms of PvP. None of these saved it from dying faster than guild wars 2. Guild wars 1 did such a great job at filtering Noobs from the true PvPers (special snowflake syndrome) that it killed itself. Even with Arena net constantly messing up PvP, Guild wars 2 is more alive after 4 years than guild wars 2 was alive after 2.5 years and gw2 has to contend with all those other PvP games.

Final, before complain about tantrums maybe look through your own post history. If you don’t want to, look at the front page, a lot of it is whining from true PvPer.

GW2 compete with other PvP games? I’m sorry but in what world is this happening in. I’m going to just say a few things. The only way that GW2 can actually start competing against actual PvP games is as follows.

A.) Punish the players who are exploiting the leaderboards. (This is easy as pie! Delete their accounts from the leader boards and ban them as other PvP games that pulls 40k plus viewers do.)

B.) Enforce a Match Maker system that creates better match quality rather then quantity . (In my firmest belief once match quality drastically improves. More and more people will want to PvP not because of PvE rewards but because it’s competitive and fun. You will then start to be able to grow your PvP mode into a eSports not the other way around.)

C.) Way more frequent balance patches are needed. (Ok we understand balance is never going to be perfect. But if ANet actually wants to try to compete with other actual PvP games that are balancing way more classes and things every 2 to 4 weeks with full support. ANet is going to have to follow suit, or again all is in vain.

D.) ANet will have to not promote players who have only 5 hours or less of PvP experience to participate in Ranked League. (There is a reason the actual PvP games don’t do this. It leads to many of the problems players face in GW2 and does nothing but make both the inexperience and vets hate and not play the game mode.)

E.) If ANet wants to try to compete, then they’ll have to add more PvP game modes. (There is a reason why actual PvP games have 1v1 and 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, and then the main game mode 5v5 conquest. It gives players a ladder to the big times. Instead of throwing them under the bus out of the gate.)

Till ANet invest time and resources to get this basic things that make actual PvP games good. GW2’s PvP will not be able to compete with the actual PvP game.

I hope this was productive enoth to not get another infraction. I think it was.

inb4
separate the noobs from the leets
build a wall
oversee noobs with leets
no that doesn’t work let them police themselves

nawmeen

The rewards were made uniform with the rest of the game for one reason only: to attract players from the other areas of the game to PvP in order to bolster queue times. What you see today is the result of that choice.

What we see today is the result of that choice. There are still queues at all. Match quality has gone down because population is low.

If you create a situation where only players you like are permitted, it’s going to get lonely fast.

ANET is preserving PvP by attracting players. The best response would be to welcome and nurture the new players.

This is why when I make a dungeon group, it is nearly always “all welcome.”

Reaper Alim.4176:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Supreme.3164:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Reaper Alim.4176:

snip.

Holy hyperbole. You are good.

Honestly with your attitude including past post, i am glad arena net decided to focus on making the game mode more attractive rather than cuddle your fragile ego.

At the very least they learned this basic mistake from Gw1. While having veterans is nice, it is always better to try and bring in more players. In gw1, vets made it impossible for new players to join by automatically rejecting any player with low R. Eventually, as veterans left no veterans replaced them and PvP died faster than it necessary.

But you will never be able to deny the fact that GW1 PvP was and will remain far superior in terms of quality..and numbers:

1) 30+ Top Teams = Check
2) Mouthwatering display of skill on screen= Check
3) Simple Team arena matches watched by hundreds of people = Check
4) Multiple game mode with hundreds of players each = Check
5) Huge build diversity at any level = Check
6) PvP scene lasting more than 5 years = Check

..Now pls try to replicate these numbers with GW2…pls just try it, especially point 6..I mean…GW2 PvP already on his deathbed after only 3 years….actually it has been a declining element since couple of year ago…you can’t even touch GW1.

You talk about GW1 elitism as a bad thing…it had its disadvantages but the main benefit was filtering of true pvpers from the rest.

Those seriously in love with the idea of pvp, were able to wait weeks begging in chat for a chance despite having Rank 0 ( I did that for 3 weeks before a guy gave me a chance..and I ended my pvp life in gw1 at r8)

Players in gw1 had dedication…here they will launch a tantrum if they don’t get their “toy” after few matches or so…or will cry if they wait for more than 5m on queue…………….-_-…………yeah I’d rather have that “elitism” back ty

Out of 30 pvers who come to pvp…28 are in for the shiny reward and will leave after, those 2 who remain will instead become the pvpers of tomorrow…those “elitist jerks” in GW1 would have simply pushed those 28 pvers out of pvp that much quicker than wait for them to simply leave

Let me start by saying you miss the whole point of my post.

Guild wars 1 PvP was better. It had more builds in theory, more game modes and less competition in terms of PvP. None of these saved it from dying faster than guild wars 2. Guild wars 1 did such a great job at filtering Noobs from the true PvPers (special snowflake syndrome) that it killed itself. Even with Arena net constantly messing up PvP, Guild wars 2 is more alive after 4 years than guild wars 2 was alive after 2.5 years and gw2 has to contend with all those other PvP games.

Final, before complain about tantrums maybe look through your own post history. If you don’t want to, look at the front page, a lot of it is whining from true PvPer.

Snip

I am sorry for not being clearer, which invalidates whatever you were trying to say. I meant competing as in mind share. There are a lot PvP options today than when guild wars 1 was release. Even with how unperfect guild wars 2 is, it is still around after 4 years while guild wars 1 was dead in less than 2.5. Even with how Arena net is supposedly killing the game by being inclusive (hahaha).

The point being MMO need the casuals more than the special snowflakes like yourself and I am glad Arena net is being inclusive, if only to come to the forums and read professional QQers such as yourself QQ.

To PlatinumMember

A.) Don’t be sorry. We both know you are really not. The whole point of your last post was to try invalidate what I said prior with personal attacks. I wish I could just go around calling people special snowflakes without getting banned from the forums. Are you and the Moderators on these forums buddy or something? Now that’s out of the way.

B.) It’s why many actual “special snowflakes” [since thats the derogatory name you want to call competitive PvPers.] like myself, now barely PvPs in this game anymore. It’s also why match quality is at a all time low now. It’s also why PvEers has to be bribed into attending, not even trying in Ranked PvP matches. Which again drops match quality.

C.) But fear not ANet has spoken. They rather have players who don’t care about being farmed by ESL-ish tier’ed players. Then to have a core of dedicated competitive PvP fokes ,turn GW2 into a highly competitive and entertaining eSports that many people want to watch. But I also fears not for the fact. That ANet has pushed me and other likeminded PvP players away from GW2’s PvP so hard. The we came to a realization. There are actual fun and competitive PvP to be had in actual PvP games.

Bottom line is as long as ANet keeps pushing players who don’t care about PvP. To just attend Ranked PvP matches, and get rewarded greatly for losing. Players who are not at ESL level tier skill but care about PvP, will continue to get disgruntled and continue to leave. Meaning match quality will continue to drop as PvPers stop PvPing in GW2. Meaning ANet will have to try harder to convince more PvEers to attend more matches, for PvE rewards that are a pain to get in PvE land for nearly free in PvP. So in turn all that has been done to make PvP “more inclusive” for casuals to be farmed by ESL skilled players is nothing good for the health of PvP at all.

But again what do I know? I only plays GW2, Smite, and Paragon, and also sees the difference in the level of entertainment people get out of each of those game’s PvP. The one thing I can throw at you is the fact GW2 still struggles to a decent 5k viewers during events, while actual PvP games just can’t help but to get atleast 40k plus viewers.

Anyways have fun with your super casual inclusive…ah…. PvP experience.

Reaper Alim.4176:

It’s also why match quality is at a all time low now.

Actually I find the match quality to be much better than the previous 4 seasons. I often get 400+ vs 500 games, rarely I see lopsided matches. I also see more turn-around games. Rarely I can predict the outcome of the game by its class make-up (which I can in previous seasons)

I am one of these casual pvper that joined ranked only for its reward, with all previous seasons I might add.