Guild Wars 2

This should help balance out the OP condi spamming.

Lets think about it for a sec, a power attack has to land to do it’s damage, it’s also reduced by toughness, condi is not, a power attack hits for around 400-1200 non crit depending the weapon skill and class, condi damage can tic over 1k with enough stacks.

Power attacks have a cast time like condi attacks but the difference is power attacks are not consistent like condi attacks are, so pretty much you apply a condi on a target and the target is screwed unless the target has a condi removal, condi damage can’t be dodged once its on, it can’t be blocked once its on, it can’t be wiped with line of sight once its on, it cant be reduced by toughness and it has a unlimited range, meaning once you apply the condi the target can run across the map and still take damage unlike power attacks, now add a pet to the mix, pretty much another condi attack that never fades that deals power attacks, this is whats wrong with Gw2’s spvp.

You can not have real balance when one attack type is better then the other in every single way, so in turn this leaves 3/4 of all the builds in the game under par and pretty much useless.

To fix spvp or help it a bit have dodge remove one condi, also have condi damage be suppressed during blocks, this would not effect pve at all, this only helps balance out the major differences between condi and power damage in pvp.

This should help level the playing field between power builds and condi builds in spvp.

Removing 1 condition might negate a lot more than 1k direct dmg.

Spec for condition removal..? If dodges would remove one condition, Anet would need to change a lot of utility skills, skills and traits in terms of balance. Some classes with plenty of access to vigor would have the option not to be threatened by condition builds anymore and thereby you have created several professions that can render condition builds useless, diminishing build diversity which is horrible.

Adris.1859:

Removing 1 condition might negate a lot more than 1k direct dmg.

Same as dodging a crit from a power attack, its far to easy to apply condi vs power attacks, this I feel is what wrong with pvp balance.

Malcastus.6240:

Spec for condition removal..? If dodges would remove one condition, Anet would need to change a lot of utility skills, skills and traits in terms of balance. Some classes with plenty of access to vigor would have the option not to be threatened by condition builds anymore and thereby you have created several professions that can render condition builds useless, diminishing build diversity which is horrible.

Yeah im sure they would have to tweak other skills but the result is what we see now,, vigor would need to be adrressed for some classes for sure.

Did you really think this through from a condi based specs pov aswell?

what about removing stacks or reducing the duration of the condis we you dodge instead of removing it completely?

What about healing up any power damage you took 1sec before dodgeing?

hmmm.. more passive skill mkaing classes with vigor/initiative/dodge skills even more passive..

I approve! why not?
i mean the game is already reduced somuch the next step is just having everyone create macros so they don’t have to press keys

Good sarcasm OP, shame not everyone got that you were joking : I

Op condi spamming? I think you should try playing a condition spec on any profession and then come back.

If you are refering to necro – go spam all your marks and every single ability and see how well you fare. You will not be able to kill anything. If you get hit by signet of spite its a whole other story, but that signet needs to be changed and has nothing to do with condition builds in general.

So please dont come up with any other dumb ideas before you have actually tested things out in an active pvp environment and not just afk players and test golems.

Imagine 1 condi remove on a thief with feline grace and vigor. NO, just NO!

Another passive ability? You literally can spam dodges if you play with energy sigils and have some source of vigor in your build. Another laughable thread . . .

I can definitely see Thief becoming the new bunker because then s/he would have technically infinite condition cleanse

Which is not so bad, you know. Perhaps people would then stop whining about OP-condi-spamming necros, despite that they have already been nerfed

spvp subforum keeps delivering

Let me guess… A Thief or a Mesmer player… Nuf, nuf, I smell bull***t

ITT – condition spammers rushing to defend their cheese gameplay.

This game would be much better if condition damage didn’t exist in the first place

Great. More changes that will reward dodge spamming.

No thanks.

This is silly.

Currently, dodging works the same vs. physical damage and condition damage. It’s perfectly balanced.

If you dodge against a physical attack, that physical damage does not happen. If you dodge a condition attack, you do not take that damage over time that the condition would have given to you.

Saying that dodging does nothing to help conditions which are currently hurting you, which were applied previously, is a poor argument. Dodging also does nothing to help physical damage you’ve already taken. The only reason you’re feeling the difference, is because the DoTs are continuing to eat away at you when you dodge, where as with direct damage, your health doesn’t change while you’re actively evading.

Guess what? The condition builds already paid for that. The physical damage guys did their damage front loaded, but the condition guys are trying to grind you out over time. Why should condition guys not get their damage on the back end just to help the way you’re perceiving things?

Dodging helps against attacks that are coming at you now. It does not help against attacks that hit you earlier, period. Just think about how silly that would be, conceptually. I dodge, therefor an attack that actually hit me earlier should be lessened?

Anyway, I’m not opposed to thinking about different answer for those who really don’t like condition tanks, I just don’t feel like this is it.

Perhaps, there should be another stat, like toughness, that reduced condition duration on your character. It could work like Melandru runes, just a -condition duration stat that works in sPvP.

The trade off that makes this fair of course, is that a player should have to spend stats on this if they want the benefit, just like toughness. Then, if someone feels like they’re much weaker to conditions then physical damage or like they don’t have alot of ways to cleanse conditions in their class, they can gear up accordingly. At least with this proposal, they’d have to invest their gear stats to gain the form of defense that they want, which seems fair to me.

But just giving everybody extra condition hate for free when they dodge? I don’t see how that could do anything but nerf an entire play style into dust, across all classes.

sure why not, anet made changes that were close to this type of suggestions so whatever

Next: Dodging recovers HP.

You are touching on a big issue, but your solution is terrible.

If conditions (since they are so dps heavy) had the same sort of counterplay power did, the game would be much better off.

djooceboxblast.9876:

If you are refering to necro – go spam all your marks and every single ability and see how well you fare. You will not be able to kill anything.

Scepter/Dagger: 2, 5, 3 Switch Staff: 2, 3, 5. Switch , Enter Deathshroud: 2, 3, 5, 4.

If you blindly spam this combo and don’t fail at aiming poorly telegraphed, large 240 radius abilities, you will do better than any other profession for the same effort of training a monkey to input this button sequence.

People are forced to Random dodge when the necro is flexing, because they can’t actually tell when/what is coming. This results in a poor mitigation of the 10 incoming damage abilities. Besides, avoiding 10 consecutive attacks back to back is hard I hear.

The current build for Necro is the absolute definition of ‘spamming every single ability and faring well’. You only have to manage Putrid Mark and Deathly Swarm. Other than that, bombs away!

Fortunately, Necros have generally a pretty pathetic defense against being trained by multiple attackers, (especially un-peelable Warriors) so they’re kept in balance.

Necros being not overpowered, relatively speaking, in team queues doesn’t mean the offensive nature of Necromancers isn’t completely broken and spam happy.

Very yucky. I hope that one day Necros will be required to give more phucks when casting their abilities (besides Putrid Mark & Deathly Swarm.)

Regarding the OP:

No can do, sorry. You’re proposing that we attach massive condition clear to dodge rolls, that would break the game.

Look at how many times you can dodge roll in one minute to see how badly this would mess up the system. Considering you can get like, 6 dodges a minute from an Energy Sigil, and 12 dodges a minute with vigor, it’d be just like giving dodge spamming morons who are just not wanting to die another 18 condition removal a minute.

In fact, anyone with high vigor and energy sigils just got 18 condition removal a minute with your changes. Engineers, Mesmers, Guardians, Eles, 18 morecondition removal a minute for everyone! lolol.

I live off of 6-8 condition removal per minute on my Engi, to put things in perspective. This would break the game really badly and make only 1 Sigil possible: Energy. Great way to completely de-value intelligent dodge rolling, too.

So for those reasons, I pretty much vehemently oppose allowing something as common as dodge rolls to remove conditions each time.

Chaith.8256:

djooceboxblast.9876:

If you are refering to necro – go spam all your marks and every single ability and see how well you fare. You will not be able to kill anything.

Scepter/Dagger: 2, 5, 3 Switch Staff: 2, 3, 5. Switch , Enter Deathshroud: 2, 3, 5, 4.

If you blindly spam this combo and don’t fail at aiming poorly telegraphed, large 240 radius abilities, you will do better than any other profession for the same effort of training a monkey to input this button sequence.

People are forced to Random dodge when the necro is flexing, because they can’t actually tell when/what is coming. This results in a poor mitigation of the 10 incoming damage abilities. Besides, avoiding 10 consecutive attacks back to back is hard I hear.

The current build for Necro is the absolute definition of ‘spamming every single ability and faring well’. You only have to manage Putrid Mark and Deathly Swarm. Other than that, bombs away!

Fortunately, Necros have generally a pretty pathetic defense against being trained by multiple attackers, (especially un-peelable Warriors) so they’re kept in balance.

Necros being not overpowered, relatively speaking, in team queues doesn’t mean the offensive nature of Necromancers isn’t completely broken and spam happy.

Very yucky. I hope that one day Necros will be required to give more phucks when casting their abilities (besides Putrid Mark & Deathly Swarm.)

Well that only apply to condi necros and necros are supposed to be the aggressive class most sustain comes from hitting the opponent (lf reg and life leach)…

Chaith.8256:

djooceboxblast.9876:

If you are refering to necro – go spam all your marks and every single ability and see how well you fare. You will not be able to kill anything.

Scepter/Dagger: 2, 5, 3 Switch Staff: 2, 3, 5. Switch , Enter Deathshroud: 2, 3, 5, 4.

If you blindly spam this combo and don’t fail at aiming poorly telegraphed, large 240 radius abilities, you will do better than any other profession for the same effort of training a monkey to input this button sequence.

People are forced to Random dodge when the necro is flexing, because they can’t actually tell when/what is coming. This results in a poor mitigation of the 10 incoming damage abilities. Besides, avoiding 10 consecutive attacks back to back is hard I hear.

The current build for Necro is the absolute definition of ‘spamming every single ability and faring well’. You only have to manage Putrid Mark and Deathly Swarm. Other than that, bombs away!

Fortunately, Necros have generally a pretty pathetic defense against being trained by multiple attackers, (especially un-peelable Warriors) so they’re kept in balance.

Necros being not overpowered, relatively speaking, in team queues doesn’t mean the offensive nature of Necromancers isn’t completely broken and spam happy.

Very yucky. I hope that one day Necros will be required to give more phucks when casting their abilities (besides Putrid Mark & Deathly Swarm.)

Except no necro can get all of those skills off consecutively against any good player who uses their interrupts. That and the fact that necros condition damage has been nerfed quite a bit since dhuumfire to the point of being about the same as it was before dhuumfire. That and the fact that every other classes condition removal has been buffed. I’m in disbelief that people still aren’t speccing for decent condition removal after 6 months. Condition builds have hard counters now in engineers, eles, and warriors. At the same time every other class has soft counters in decent condition clears if traited. Right after the dhuumfire patch necros were op, but since then they have had nerfs to fear damage, bleeding on several skills, and dhuumfire itself while ever other class has had their condition removal buffed. Suggestions like the ops are from people who still don’t spec condition removal and don’t realize the popular 30/20/0/0/20 build that people complain about is extremely vulnerable to cc and focus.

This forum still believes condis just appear in thin air without an attack successfully landing?

Ludus Rex.1562:

If you dodge a condition attack, you do not take that damage over time that the condition would have given to you./quote]

It doesn’t work like that. Condition damage ticks regardles of evading or not.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Ludus Rex.1562:

If you dodge a condition attack, you do not take that damage over time that the condition would have given to you./quote]

It doesn’t work like that. Condition damage ticks regardles of evading or not.

LOL REALLY this is hilarious. If you are dodging conditions that have already been applied to you still do damage, but that’s because you didn’t dodge the attacks that applied those conditions. You want dodging to allow you to take no damage at all for that second or so, which is hilarious. It’s the equivalent of getting the health back from attacks that have already hit you for power builds.

zapv.8051:

Chaith.8256:

djooceboxblast.9876:

If you are refering to necro – go spam all your marks and every single ability and see how well you fare. You will not be able to kill anything.

Scepter/Dagger: 2, 5, 3 Switch Staff: 2, 3, 5. Switch , Enter Deathshroud: 2, 3, 5, 4.

If you blindly spam this combo and don’t fail at aiming poorly telegraphed, large 240 radius abilities, you will do better than any other profession for the same effort of training a monkey to input this button sequence.

People are forced to Random dodge when the necro is flexing, because they can’t actually tell when/what is coming. This results in a poor mitigation of the 10 incoming damage abilities. Besides, avoiding 10 consecutive attacks back to back is hard I hear.

The current build for Necro is the absolute definition of ‘spamming every single ability and faring well’. You only have to manage Putrid Mark and Deathly Swarm. Other than that, bombs away!

Fortunately, Necros have generally a pretty pathetic defense against being trained by multiple attackers, (especially un-peelable Warriors) so they’re kept in balance.

Necros being not overpowered, relatively speaking, in team queues doesn’t mean the offensive nature of Necromancers isn’t completely broken and spam happy.

Very yucky. I hope that one day Necros will be required to give more phucks when casting their abilities (besides Putrid Mark & Deathly Swarm.)

Except no necro can get all of those skills off consecutively against any good player who uses their interrupts. That and the fact that necros condition damage has been nerfed quite a bit since dhuumfire to the point of being about the same as it was before dhuumfire. That and the fact that every other classes condition removal has been buffed. I’m in disbelief that people still aren’t speccing for decent condition removal after 6 months. Condition builds have hard counters now in engineers, eles, and warriors. At the same time every other class has soft counters in decent condition clears if traited. Right after the dhuumfire patch necros were op, but since then they have had nerfs to fear damage, bleeding on several skills, and dhuumfire itself while ever other class has had their condition removal buffed. Suggestions like the ops are from people who still don’t spec condition removal and don’t realize the popular 30/20/0/0/20 build that people complain about is extremely vulnerable to cc and focus.

This is the sPvP forum so I’m assuming you’re talking about PvP. Ok,

1) Necro damage is the same as it was pre-dhuumfire. You are absolutely out of your mind, lol. This is not even close to being true. The invention of Tainted Shackles, double Doom duration at close range, Dhuuumfire, Signet of Spite… I know it must have been very traumatic to lose a bleed on Grasping Dead, but let’s get real. Necro pressure has seen a massive increase since that July 25th patch. Warriors and Rangers creeped way up as well, so it may not seem like it – but what you’re saying is just incorrect.

2) Every classes condition removal has been buffed. No, remember how Eles had amazing group condition removal before they were gutted? Two Eles in their peak of overpoweredness cleansing each other on point was the pinnacle of condition removal. If anything, condition removal has been nerfed, and condition application has been buffed (dhuumfire, sun spirit, tainted shackles, other torment). Mesmers commonly run on pretty much no condition removal, Engineers commonly run on an adequate 8-12 condition removal per minute, Rangers have huge condition removal, but that’s always been there, Guardian’s Pure of Voice trait nerfed, Eles condition removal gutted, Thief condition removal pretty much untouched since launch. Warriors condition removal has went way up through Cleansing Ire, and Necromancer condition removal pretty much untouched since launch. So basically by saying every class has received more condition removal, you meant the Warrior has received more condition removal – while Necros and others received increased condition application.

3) I’m surprised people aren’t speccing into decent condition removal after 6 months. Well, let’s see.. uh, everyone does spec into decent condition removal. Unfortunately in PvP, things don’t quite work when the roamers build really defensively, so Shadow Arts thieves and Inspiration Mesmers haven’t caught on, but everyone else has condition removal to the max. Unless you care to explain to Shout Guards, Elixir Engies (or equilivant), Empathic Bond Rangers, Berserker Stance & Cleansing Ire Warriors, Water Elementalists with Ether Renewal, how these players can possibly get more condition removal?!

I find your lack of knowledge of sPvP disturbing..

ensoriki.5789:

This forum still believes condis just appear in thin air without an attack successfully landing?

You’re correct, obviously. But it’s understandable that people believe this considering the way that players get ganked by Necromancers from 900 range without any give-away as to their position while the victim panics and knee-jerk-reactionary dodge spams.

zapv.8051:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Ludus Rex.1562:

If you dodge a condition attack, you do not take that damage over time that the condition would have given to you./quote]

It doesn’t work like that. Condition damage ticks regardles of evading or not.

LOL REALLY this is hilarious. If you are dodging conditions that have already been applied to you still do damage, but that’s because you didn’t dodge the attacks that applied those conditions. You want dodging to allow you to take no damage at all for that second or so, which is hilarious. It’s the equivalent of getting the health back from attacks that have already hit you for power builds.

You what? Did you even understood what I wrote? Ludus was saying that during a dodge you didn’t take condition damage. I was explaining to him that he doesn’t work that way and dodge doesn’t negate any condition damage.

Before making yourself look bad, read through what the person you are quoting actually wrote.

In my opinion it’s not necessarily balanced. Let’s take a look at power vs conditions:

Ways to refill the health the power attacks removed from you?

• Healing

Ways to prevent power attacks damage?

• Dodge/Evade/Block

Ways to refill the health the conditions damage removed from you?

• Healing

Ways to prevent condition damage?

• Condition cleansing

As you can see, in power attacks you dodge and you’re fine (prevention)
In condition attacks you use condi cleanse to remove the condition. Until that time, some damage ticked off or it was overrun by some other secondary conditions that just got removed instead of the real damage ones. (that’s remedy right there, not prevention)

The fast reapplying of conditions is what creates this problem, where conditions are generated from AoEs you are generally forced to stay upon, that’s why the dodge method in preventing most of the conditions don’t work as effectively as it should, and that’s why conditions are a bit better than power, not by much, but they are.

Just remove everything but sigil of energy and adventure runes then.

Chaith.8256:

People are forced to Random dodge when the necro is flexing, because they can’t actually tell when/what is coming. This results in a poor mitigation of the 10 incoming damage abilities.

This. 100% this.

Chaith.8256:

ensoriki.5789:

This forum still believes condis just appear in thin air without an attack successfully landing?

You’re correct, obviously. But it’s understandable that people believe this considering the way that players get ganked by Necromancers from 900 range without any give-away as to their position while the victim panics and knee-jerk-reactionary dodge spams.

I understand the frustration or the guessing game to stay alive vs certain specs however its a sad affair that the misconceptions about how conditions work continued this far past launch.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

You what? Did you even understood what I wrote? Ludus was saying that during a dodge you didn’t take condition damage. I was explaining to him that he doesn’t work that way and dodge doesn’t negate any condition damage.

I didn’t say that. I think you misread my original post.

I said that when you dodge, you avoid the condition attack, thereby negating the condition damage it would deal you in the future. You evade the damage over time of the currently incoming attack.

I went on to clarify:

Ludus Rex.1562:

The only reason you’re feeling the difference, is because the DoTs are continuing to eat away at you when you dodge, where as with direct damage, your health doesn’t change while you’re actively evading.

Also,

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Before making yourself look bad, read through what the person you are quoting actually wrote.

ensoriki.5789:

Chaith.8256:

ensoriki.5789:

This forum still believes condis just appear in thin air without an attack successfully landing?

You’re correct, obviously. But it’s understandable that people believe this considering the way that players get ganked by Necromancers from 900 range without any give-away as to their position while the victim panics and knee-jerk-reactionary dodge spams.

I understand the frustration or the guessing game to stay alive vs certain specs however its a sad affair that the misconceptions about how conditions work continued this far past launch.

True true.

What also contributes to the misconceptions that conditions appear on your bar is definitely Dhuumfire, Incendiary Powder, Sun Spirit and Virtue of Justice.

For example, I can be AFK booping someone with my Engineer’s Pistol 1 skill repeatedly. I might proc Incendiary Powder, which burns for 5.25s. Someone can react to that and cleanse it, and then my second Pistol 1 skill procs Sun Spirit burn. And then my third Pistol 1 skill has the Guardian’s Virtue of Justice behind it. Mean while the Ranger’s Pet is applying freaking Justice and Sun Spirit burns, too.

During all this time, the only freaking thing the victim can react to is…. Engineer Pistol 1, and Ranger Pet auto-attacks, just as an example. There’s all this damage coming from all these ridiculously meaningless attacks. There needs to be proportional meaning behind the attacks, based on how frequent, and how telegraphed it is, vs. what damage it actually does.

To the victim, conditions are literally appearing on his bar and as far as he can tell, he’s reacting properly to everything he can react to.

Caith.8256:

djooceboxblast.9876:

response 1

response 2

1) You forget the nerf to terror, the cutting by 33% of dhuumfire, mark of blood bleed stack, and change of weaking shroud to enfeeble and lowered bleed duration. That is a lot of damage you seem to be forgetting about. Honestly adding up the math without having the previous skills is a little difficult, but I assure you the above nerfs have almost completely gotten rid of the buffs of the dhuumfire patch. Also doom is 1.5 seconds within 600 range not 2.

2)Necros Putrid mark got stealth nerfed really hard, but condition removal really isn’t a problem for necros. Warriors condition removal is ridiculous as everyone knows. Ele’s now have diamond skin that makes them immune to conditions above 90%, and while it’s a bad trait I agree it still gives them a hard counter. Engineers also have a hard counter if they want. As you said Mesmer’s don’t run any condition removal which is not a condition appliers fault and doesn’t mean they don’t have it. Since the dhuumfire patch on June 25th every class bar none have gotten at least a minor buff to condition removal. It isn’t a balance problem if they decide not to run these.

3)When I fight classes with decent condition removal it seems like a fairly balanced fight. Do you expect condition builds to do no damage when you have decent condition removal? That is what it seems like. I guess I don’t understand why people continually think condition builds need to be brought down more. The way many people on this forum are treating it is as if condition builds simply shouldn’t be played. Specifically Necros are already being dropped from high level teams due to their lack of sustainability. If you take away their damage what does that leave?

Also, I hope I haven’t made you mad. I don’t like aggravating people over a game. This is simply the way I see it. I’m sorry if it differs with your opinion.

Ludus Rex.1562:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

You what? Did you even understood what I wrote? Ludus was saying that during a dodge you didn’t take condition damage. I was explaining to him that he doesn’t work that way and dodge doesn’t negate any condition damage.

I didn’t say that. I think you misread my original post.

I said that when you dodge, you avoid the condition attack, thereby negating the condition damage it would deal you in the future. You evade the damage over time of the currently incoming attack.

I went on to clarify:

Ludus Rex.1562:

The only reason you’re feeling the difference, is because the DoTs are continuing to eat away at you when you dodge, where as with direct damage, your health doesn’t change while you’re actively evading.

Also,

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Before making yourself look bad, read through what the person you are quoting actually wrote.

LOL This^, If get hit by an attack that applies conditions and then dodge of course your still going to take damage. Conditions are damage over time so dodging when a condition is already on you should do nothing. However, if you dodge the attack that applies the conditions, then those conditions don’t get applied meaning you don’t take damage from them. Just like power attacks. Overall the concept is perfectly balanced and the implementation is close to it. Dodge the big hits, eviscerate and signet of spite are good examples and mitigate the rest, with condition cleanses, protection, blocking, invulns, and heals.

kitten some necros actually believe they do LESS damage than before the dumbfire patch? lol the things people tell themselves…

zapv.8051:

Since the dhuumfire patch on June 25th every class bar none have gotten at least a minor buff to condition removal. It isn’t a balance problem if they decide not to run these.

Instead of just repeating this untrue statement, could you explain how every profession, except for Warrior (which is obvious) has gotten a buff to condition removal?

And Zapv, if you’ve read my other posts in this thead, you’d understand that I am of the opinion that Necromancers are balanced right now, in context of the strength levels of other professions, and the fact that they do get countered by the proper control & persistence. However, I am of the opinion that Necromancers, offensively, need much more thought behind their abilities and should not so readily be able to land 10 consecutive attacks without properly informing the victim of where and when these attacks will be landing, so the proper countermeasures can be taken. I feel that Necromancer abilities take very little precision, and that’s why spammy tactics without needing to work off of a stun or immob first are common.

ahuba.6430:

kitten some necros actually believe they do LESS damage than before the dumbfire patch? lol the things people tell themselves…

I don’t know either, man. It’s pretty obvious to me too, that a lot of professions are still maintaining decent power net-increases.

Chaith.8256:

zapv.8051:

Since the dhuumfire patch on June 25th every class bar none have gotten at least a minor buff to condition removal. It isn’t a balance problem if they decide not to run these.

Instead of just repeating this untrue statement, could you explain how every profession, except for Warrior (which is obvious) has gotten a buff to condition removal?

And Zapv, if you’ve read my other posts in this thead, you’d understand that I am of the opinion that Necromancers are balanced right now, in context of the strength levels of other professions, and the fact that they do get countered by the proper control & persistence. However, I am of the opinion that Necromancers, offensively, need much more thought behind their abilities and should not so readily be able to land 10 consecutive attacks without properly informing the victim of where and when these attacks will be landing, so the proper countermeasures can be taken. I feel that Necromancer abilities take very little precision, and that’s why spammy tactics without needing to work off of a stun or immob first are common.

ahuba.6430:

kitten some necros actually believe they do LESS damage than before the dumbfire patch? lol the things people tell themselves…

I don’t know either, man. It’s pretty obvious to me too, that a lot of professions are still maintaining decent power net-increases.

For your first point simply look at the patch notes, and you’ll see I’m correct. I went through the trouble of reading through all of them, so you can too. Also, I’m all for adding skilled play, but your downplaying conditionmancers decision making. There is too much spam certainly, but no one ever mentions correct timing on corrupt boon or signet of spite, placement of spectral wall if you use it, or using death shroud certainly.

Much of the thought behind ahuba’s post is from a well known necro theorycrafter Nemesis. He recently posted a video bashing many of anet’s recent decisions. They unpinned his tutorial thread after the video too. This after he rarely if ever bashed any of anet’s decisions and got several of his suggestions into the game. Here is the link to the video if you want to watch it (it is long like many of his videos), and consider that necros condition damage might not be as buffed as you think.
http://youtu.be/1zKIo4MlZ9U

The thing that most people don’t factor into this equation, is that Condition Tanks who focus on attrition builds are very strong 1v1, but are fairly lackluster in group PvP.

A Condition Tank might be decent at 1v1, but in a group scenario, burst damage via focus fire with your teammates is much more effective, especially since your opponents may have AoE condition removal with them.

To me, I think this is decently balanced. Power builds can win fights now, Condition builds can work in a bit of defense, and win wars of attrition. The problem doesn’t stem from the Condition Tank builds, but from the fact that the current game modes favor Condition Tank builds.

Personally? I’d like to see a 20v20 deathmatch type of game mode, that had a short duration of say, 4:00 minutes. Why? Because I think the team centric builds that came out of it would be alot of fun.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with Venom Share Thief, for example, except for the fact that you can’t count on being near enough of your teammates to make it worthwhile, and if you ever get into a 1v1 situation you’re fairly underwhelming. In a 20v20 death brawl however? Well, then you’d know that whatever AoE team support you’re cranking out is hitting its 5 targets. People would have to focus on more team oriented build, and this perceived problem of condition tanks would die away pretty fast in the light of AoE cleansing (except maybe for Combustive Shot Warriors, since that field is staying on the floor no matter what).

Conditions are strong in the current game modes, not OP in general. Just add new game modes.

Did you honestly think this over, dodge to remove 1 condition is rather stupid. It would make some classes extremely powerful.

This would not be a good fix. Anet need to look at conditions in other ways. My opinion is that no professions should ever be able to reach 25 stacks of any condition or boon alone – ever.

zapv.8051:

http://youtu.be/1zKIo4MlZ9U

Watched 20 minutes of this video.. he is plain wrong in his calculations.

17:12: “We lost 600 damage from Mark of Blood. We lost 400 damage at grasping dead we lost 2000 damage at Weakening Shroud trait, that’s 3000. We also lost 17% from terror damage. What does this mean? *Compared to when we were so bad that everyone was complaining about Necromancers performance we (only) got Dhuumfire, which does 3 ticks of 700 damage, so that’s 2100, BUT in the process, we lost 3000 + 17% terror damage. We got 2100 damage, and we got 3000 + 17% terror damage. We’re lower than we are than when Necromancers were terrible! (Pre-Dhuumfire patch)”

Sorry, but this guy is a moron if he credits the only buff Necromancers ever got was Dhuumfire. What you both conveniently seem to forget:

Buffs for 30/20/0/0/20 build since June 25th:

• 1.5s base Fear duration -600 range from terror, that gives Fear & Terror damage to offset the 17% terror nerf.

• Signet of Spite was massively buffed.

• Death Shroud no longer removes Spectral effects (massive focus fire buff)

• Putrid Mark transfers blind instead of getting blinded. Not a bug fix.

• NEW ABILITY: Tainted Shackles – does a crap ton of free counter-pressure where nothing was present before. Thousands of free AoE damage. Is this registering? Lol.

• Marks increased from 120 to 180. Frees 10 points for Master of Terror, if you can deal with blockable marks.

• Many tiny buffs that were dismissed as insubstantial on the Dec. 10th patch.

As you can see, Necromancers like Zapv and have the memory of an elephant when Grasping Dead & Mark of Blood applies 2 bleed instead of 3, but seem to have convenient amnesia when it comes to the buffs they’ve got since June 25th.

“We do worse damage than ever, guys, RIP in peace Weakening Shroud, 1 bleed on Grasping Dead, 1 bleed on Mark of Blood, and 17% Terror nerf.”

EDIT: So yeah, this is remaining kind of off topic, but I get the feeling that this thread is kind of….. [/thread]

Chaith.8256:

• Death Shroud no longer removes Spectral effects (massive focus fire buff)

In exchange for that, they now have a 1 second ICD, so in reality, they are objectively worse when being focused fired by multiple people. Moreover, running out of Deathshroud can no longer serve as Aegis – the damage rolls over. These were substantial nerfs to sustain.
Whether or not Necros are weaker than before in terms of damage is questionable, but Necromancers a certainly much weaker to focus fire than they used to be. Hence, their DPS was increased (far too much) to offset, and has been brought down slowly.
Many Necros would gladly trade condition damage for sustain (see Necro forums), given they’re meant to be the “attrition” profession, but ANET doesn’t seem to like that idea.

Balefire.7592:

Chaith.8256:

• Death Shroud no longer removes Spectral effects (massive focus fire buff)

In exchange for that, they now have a 1 second ICD, so in reality, they are objectively worse when being focused fired by multiple people. Moreover, running out of Deathshroud can no longer serve as Aegis – the damage rolls over. These were substantial nerfs to sustain.
Whether or not Necros are weaker than before in terms of damage is questionable, but Necromancers a certainly much weaker to focus fire than they used to be. Hence, their DPS was increased (far too much) to offset, and has been brought down slowly.
Many Necros would gladly trade condition damage for sustain (see Necro forums), given they’re meant to be the “attrition” profession, but ANET doesn’t seem to like that idea.

The fact that you are getting back 8% shroud every second while you’re IN shroud is definitely a focus fire defense buff. You can handle a lot more burst this way.

Before you were getting back multiple life force increases while you are losing all your HP from the 3 people training you. NOT being in Shroud while you sustain many hits is not a good strategy vs. focus fire even if you pull up a full Death Shroud while you are at 1% hp.. And if you went into shroud anyways, the Spectral Armor would be just .. gone. Remember that the 15pt Soul Reaping minor benefits from this greatly, too. If you weren’t paying attention, you could ruin it completely. Objectively, I don’t see how it could be worse when taking focus fire. Mostly because you need to be in shroud.

zapv I don’t know if you are a troll or just stupid. I sincerely hope it’s the former. Learn to read please, you keep spewing the same words over and over again.

Ludus, regardless of misinterpretation, you wrote that part poorly and has such could perfectly hold a double meaning. Don’t act kitten about it.

i want this trait on my ranger pls….

Warjin.8942:

This should help balance out the OP condi spamming.

Lets think about it for a sec, a power attack has to land to do it’s damage, it’s also reduced by toughness, condi is not, a power attack hits for around 400-1200 non crit depending the weapon skill and class, condi damage can tic over 1k with enough stacks.

Power attacks have a cast time like condi attacks but the difference is power attacks are not consistent like condi attacks are, so pretty much you apply a condi on a target and the target is screwed unless the target has a condi removal, condi damage can’t be dodged once its on, it can’t be blocked once its on, it can’t be wiped with line of sight once its on, it cant be reduced by toughness and it has a unlimited range, meaning once you apply the condi the target can run across the map and still take damage unlike power attacks, now add a pet to the mix, pretty much another condi attack that never fades that deals power attacks, this is whats wrong with Gw2’s spvp.

You can not have real balance when one attack type is better then the other in every single way, so in turn this leaves 3/4 of all the builds in the game under par and pretty much useless.

To fix spvp or help it a bit have dodge remove one condi, also have condi damage be suppressed during blocks, this would not effect pve at all, this only helps balance out the major differences between condi and power damage in pvp.

This should help level the playing field between power builds and condi builds in spvp.

Had to go back to the OP for a second. I’d just like to remind everyone again that condition damage has only three differences from direct damage: it 1) ignores armor and 2) deals damage over time/can be removed, and 3) can’t crit.

All other mechanics (dodge, block, invuln, los, evade, blind) work exactly the same for both types of attacks.