Guild Wars 2

In a serious team does an engineer really belong? I do not see a role that then engineer excels at other than trolling. My main is an engi, and I do not see any role an engi can fulfill that is vital to winning.

I have seen in solo q that some of the people that main engi make it to the top 20, so you can clearly do well as an engi. However, I get the feeling this is simply because these players are extremely skilled rather than filling a vital role.

Why play engie if other classes are much easier to play and just as strong (if not stronger).

engineer is totally useless in this meta. Can’t team fight, gets destroyed by condi warrior, have to play perfect to survive a hambow or a mesmer in 1v1, gets destroyed by necro 1v1 , really hard to beat eles also, only easy matchup is 1v1 vs thiefs but in 2v2s gets destroyed by thiefs lol.

Engineer is an amazing class at point control, survivability and 1v1 fights and isn’t too hard to play at the moment. The reason you don’t see it in high level play is because it easily gets locked down by immobilise, one of them and the whole team can 1 shot you on a point. But since 95% aren’t high level play, use it in soloq.

a t s e.9614:

Super.2749:

engineer is totally useless in this meta. Can’t team fight, gets destroyed by condi warrior, have to play perfect to survive a hambow or a mesmer in 1v1, gets destroyed by necro 1v1 , really hard to beat eles also, only easy matchup is 1v1 vs thiefs but in 2v2s gets destroyed by thiefs lol.

engi/warr are the fotm classes right now in Solo Q and a bit of guardians too.

Engi takes a dump on everyone in solo Q because it’s solo Q. Ppl don’t peel for each other, haven’t practiced 2v2s or 3v3s with their teammates, aren’t building to complement one another, aren’t in TS, are trolling each other, don’t regroup on wipes, don’t play even halfway decent builds half the time, and even the decent ones they use are copied and pasted from the forums / intothemists.

It works there b/c people do incredibly stupid kitten all game and will eat all of the AoE because most ppl don’t realize that fighting on point against an Engi in solo Q is a death wish unless you’re a Hoelbrak/Melandrus Soldiers Cleansing Ire Warrior who doesn’t give a kitten about condis.

Ppl don’t defend nodes and run around like idiots all match, so you can pretty easily take advantage of numbers situations, like 2v1 the idiot who wanted to run all the way to the far point and die, 2v1 the afk MM necro at their close, or whatever.

So ya Engi works in Solo Q because ppl are stupid and useless there. In real competitive games in higher ranked tpvp, however, Engi starts to fall off in their usual kitten spam builds and instead of building to peel for them, like how Necros are ignored, people just roll another class.

well, solo queue is different to top 10 team queue. play against a good theif and mesmer and they will kill u in seconds together. Also what kind of kittened team let engineer stand on a node in team fight? face a good team and u will die in 3 second if you stand on a node in team fights lol. Engineer is the easiest target to kill, the only reason its good in solo q is because 99.9% of the players in solo queue have no idea what to target. ask any good players from good teams like TCG OR CM and they will tell you how useless engineer is.

Condi engineer is extremely powerful in 1v1 except for a few matchups where the opponent can transfer back the conditions or stop the engi from kiting. But in group play, it’s too easy to focus an engineer down unless the engineer plays very well.

So they should buff engi because top teams don’t use it? Doesn’t make any sense, let’s buff PU mesmers cuz top teams don’t use them….

The only thing I would buff is the condi removal. Engi is the class that gets murdered by condis , if they buffed condi removal they would be way better.

Every profession can have a “role” but at top tier play their is always a weakness thats easy to exploit. Engineers hardest counter is conditions and immobilize (due to its stupid priority) will never get cleansed. TK block or elix s is great, or stealth on immob but…

Anyways I have to agree with super. But on NA their isnt a competitive scene so engis can be played.

Condi engis are extremely strong team fighters and a dangerous thing engage for most classes. Engis are right up next to warriors in getting the most benefit out of the rune changes. Balthazar and the extra sigil are a huge deal for condi engi. It’s become so strong that it’s less reliant on grenade aim as well as intelligent use of incendiary.

They do belong in this meta. I don’t know why people don’t play them more often…

a t s e.9614:

Super.2749:

engineer is totally useless in this meta. Can’t team fight, gets destroyed by condi warrior, have to play perfect to survive a hambow or a mesmer in 1v1, gets destroyed by necro 1v1 , really hard to beat eles also, only easy matchup is 1v1 vs thiefs but in 2v2s gets destroyed by thiefs lol.

Useless in team fights ? What ? Spreading massive AoE on the point , making bunkers struggle with all the condis , drop supply crate to stun and immobilize, massive AoE heals on short CD .

Have to play perfectly to survive a hambow? What? Protection injection when stunned = -33% DMG reduction , another trait that reduces by 20% = total 53% less damage while stunned. How can you have trouble with a hammer that hits for 400 with all this damage reduction.

Destroyed by mesmers is also a joke. Their condi removal is terribad, I don’t see how an engi can lose to a mesmer that is not running PU.

Seriously , engi/warr are the fotm classes right now in Solo Q and a bit of guardians too.

^I’m with this guy. Engineer has a lot of tools, and I mean a lot of tools at their disposal for 1 vs 1 and team fights.

Super.2749:

engineer is totally useless in this meta. Can’t team fight, gets destroyed by condi warrior, have to play perfect to survive a hambow or a mesmer in 1v1, gets destroyed by necro 1v1 , really hard to beat eles also, only easy matchup is 1v1 vs thiefs but in 2v2s gets destroyed by thiefs lol.

What super is trying to say, is his engineer has no place in this meta, bc he is bad at it.. K thnx for ur opinion PS u shudnt have been at PAX

Mike.4830:

Super.2749:

engineer is totally useless in this meta. Can’t team fight, gets destroyed by condi warrior, have to play perfect to survive a hambow or a mesmer in 1v1, gets destroyed by necro 1v1 , really hard to beat eles also, only easy matchup is 1v1 vs thiefs but in 2v2s gets destroyed by thiefs lol.

What super is trying to say, is his engineer has no place in this meta, bc he is bad at it.. K thnx for ur opinion PS u shudnt have been at PAX

holy kitten, riggidy riggidy rekt

Inscrutable.8347:

a t s e.9614:

Super.2749:

engineer is totally useless in this meta. Can’t team fight, gets destroyed by condi warrior, have to play perfect to survive a hambow or a mesmer in 1v1, gets destroyed by necro 1v1 , really hard to beat eles also, only easy matchup is 1v1 vs thiefs but in 2v2s gets destroyed by thiefs lol.

engi/warr are the fotm classes right now in Solo Q and a bit of guardians too.

Engi takes a dump on everyone in solo Q because it’s solo Q. Ppl don’t peel for each other, haven’t practiced 2v2s or 3v3s with their teammates, aren’t building to complement one another, aren’t in TS, are trolling each other, don’t regroup on wipes, don’t play even halfway decent builds half the time, and even the decent ones they use are copied and pasted from the forums / intothemists.

It works there b/c people do incredibly stupid kitten all game and will eat all of the AoE because most ppl don’t realize that fighting on point against an Engi in solo Q is a death wish unless you’re a Hoelbrak/Melandrus Soldiers Cleansing Ire Warrior who doesn’t give a kitten about condis.

Ppl don’t defend nodes and run around like idiots all match, so you can pretty easily take advantage of numbers situations, like 2v1 the idiot who wanted to run all the way to the far point and die, 2v1 the afk MM necro at their close, or whatever.

So ya Engi works in Solo Q because ppl are stupid and useless there. In real competitive games in higher ranked tpvp, however, Engi starts to fall off in their usual kitten spam builds and instead of building to peel for them, like how Necros are ignored, people just roll another class.

Please tell me what it means to peel for someone, I can tell its a type of strategy and I wanna learn.

Backpack and Five Gauge kinda prove that engy can be played at a high level in this meta…Just my 2 cents.

XacTactX.6709:

Please tell me what it means to peel for someone, I can tell its a type of strategy and I wanna learn.

“Peeling” generally means taking pressure off a team-mate/player who is getting focused. This can be done via cc, providing stealth, or often just putting heavy pressure on the aggressor that is training your team-mate.

It requires team communication or good in-fight awareness to know when to support a team-mate when he is under heavy pressure and can’t stand up to it.

XacTactX.6709:

Inscrutable.8347:

a t s e.9614:

Super.2749:

engineer is totally useless in this meta. Can’t team fight, gets destroyed by condi warrior, have to play perfect to survive a hambow or a mesmer in 1v1, gets destroyed by necro 1v1 , really hard to beat eles also, only easy matchup is 1v1 vs thiefs but in 2v2s gets destroyed by thiefs lol.

engi/warr are the fotm classes right now in Solo Q and a bit of guardians too.

Engi takes a dump on everyone in solo Q because it’s solo Q. Ppl don’t peel for each other, haven’t practiced 2v2s or 3v3s with their teammates, aren’t building to complement one another, aren’t in TS, are trolling each other, don’t regroup on wipes, don’t play even halfway decent builds half the time, and even the decent ones they use are copied and pasted from the forums / intothemists.

It works there b/c people do incredibly stupid kitten all game and will eat all of the AoE because most ppl don’t realize that fighting on point against an Engi in solo Q is a death wish unless you’re a Hoelbrak/Melandrus Soldiers Cleansing Ire Warrior who doesn’t give a kitten about condis.

Ppl don’t defend nodes and run around like idiots all match, so you can pretty easily take advantage of numbers situations, like 2v1 the idiot who wanted to run all the way to the far point and die, 2v1 the afk MM necro at their close, or whatever.

So ya Engi works in Solo Q because ppl are stupid and useless there. In real competitive games in higher ranked tpvp, however, Engi starts to fall off in their usual kitten spam builds and instead of building to peel for them, like how Necros are ignored, people just roll another class.

Please tell me what it means to peel for someone, I can tell its a type of strategy and I wanna learn.

This man is right. There is no such thing as “peeling” in this game. It literally doesn’t exist outside of bunkers providing clears/stomps etc. At most you can put on pressure to their DPS through damage itself, but rarely through CC…

On topic, people are gonna give the engi a hard time because the meta has changed quite a lot. I just want engis back to where they’re interesting again. Grenade aim don’t mean nearly as much anymore, but a good engi is still noticeable in any team at the very least.

Ostricheggs.3742:

This man is right. There is no such thing as “peeling” in this game. It literally doesn’t exist outside of bunkers providing clears/stomps etc. At most you can put on pressure to their DPS through damage itself, but rarely through CC…

I dont understand how you can think like that during a period where hambows are and have been so dominant.

+ clears and stomps =/= peels.

Peels are ways to avoid dmg application like stunns, blinds, slows etc…

lol wtf OE…

Cripple, chills, stuns, daze, immob, condi clears, stability, body blocking, launches etc etc

The list goes on.

Peeling is HUGE in this game OE. If you dont think so.. Kinda sad.

Super.2749:

engineer is totally useless in this meta. Can’t team fight, gets destroyed by condi warrior, have to play perfect to survive a hambow or a mesmer in 1v1, gets destroyed by necro 1v1 , really hard to beat eles also, only easy matchup is 1v1 vs thiefs but in 2v2s gets destroyed by thiefs lol.

Couldn’t it just be YOUR build that is bad at fighting Warriors and mesmers?

I’ve had success fighting them by just not playing the point holding game. Close-quarters any warrior would just destroy you.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Condi engis are extremely strong team fighters and a dangerous thing engage for most classes. Engis are right up next to warriors in getting the most benefit out of the rune changes. Balthazar and the extra sigil are a huge deal for condi engi. It’s become so strong that it’s less reliant on grenade aim as well as intelligent use of incendiary.

They do belong in this meta. I don’t know why people don’t play them more often…

Because everyone is on the Warrior hype train.

The poor condition clearing makes the engi extremely vulnerable to being focused by condition based builds, which happen to be more popular since the april 15th update. This weakness is huge in team fights.

Thanks for all the replies, but no one really identified the role the engi fills and excels at in a team yet. The only role I really see for the engi, is similar to a staff ele. This is usually AOE damage on point to force the other team off point or suffer the fun condition known as death. These ele’s, if well played, can be very effective at helping your team win a fight. Especially since they have more healing and condi removal available to them than the engi.

For AOE team fight support I have been having some success with a nade/elixer build. I figured since the elixers are your only good condi clear that I might as well try a build with them. This has made it much easier to survive with all the conditions flying around. The large amount of AOE vulnerability you spit out seemed very effective for team fights. It does seem that this build fills the role of the AOE damage during team fights and may have more survivability than a staff ele. Although, I am still unsure which one can perform this role better or if there is a better role for the engi.

In a coordinated play, in a skilled atmosphere, engineer apparently does not have a place in PvP.

I need only point at the ToL. Second least played profession was Engineer, but a significant margin. Barely more popular then Mesmer, who is also really boned.

When people complain about getting stomped by Engi’s then just take that as a hint on what level they play at, because its miles away from the top.

Well the OP asked for a role and I got to agree with the staff ele remark, engis roles seems to be aoe support. We aoe heal, cleanse, and aoe condi damage/support.

Engineers excel at nothing but can do a little of everything.
although we do great at aoe condition damage.

edit:
As for the peeling… compare it to what you want but peels are still worth doing in this game. You can say its more obvious in other games but there is a use for it here 2. I am not saying its perfect but I am saying the team who knows how to help your allies with peels will do better than one who doesn’t.

JinDaVikk.7291:

lol wtf OE…

Cripple, chills, stuns, daze, immob, condi clears, stability, body blocking, launches etc etc

The list goes on.

Peeling is HUGE in this game OE. If you dont think so.. Kinda sad.

Alright, let me elaborate. You can try to peel your kitten off, but in my experience trusting the capability of the player in need of peels to survive while you DPS is often the best option. Peeling for people is less effective than applying raw DPS to others. When I said “peeling doesn’t exist” it’s not to say that it cannot be done through classical CCing methods. It’s to say that it’s very difficult and often times a losing fight to try. Even a hambow can’t stop dedicated focus fire that’ll overcome a team fight’s DPS.

The best method to peel is to not be in a situation that needs peels in other words.

Yea I agree with that more.

Something kinda scary about 2 hambows coming at me with stab and zeker stance… kitten do you do now other than run away haha.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Alright, let me elaborate. You can try to peel your kitten off, but in my experience trusting the capability of the player in need of peels to survive while you DPS is often the best option. Peeling for people is less effective than applying raw DPS to others. When I said “peeling doesn’t exist” it’s not to say that it cannot be done through classical CCing methods. It’s to say that it’s very difficult and often times a losing fight to try. Even a hambow can’t stop dedicated focus fire that’ll overcome a team fight’s DPS.

The best method to peel is to not be in a situation that needs peels in other words.

Its not like ppl sacrifice a big part of their offense to peel. A lot of the standard combat/burst rotations have peeling mechanics build in to them. A single immob or knockback can be enough to safe teammates allready after that.

Not getting in to that situation is often done by peeling. You pressure enough or lock someone down enough so he whont be able to counter pressure.

I’ve taken a more or less 3 month break from GW2, but I mained Engi and was one of a few remaining Engineer commanders on SoR after our collapse.

From my experience, the Engineer has the best pool of peel skills of all professions, and I regularly was able to defeat WvW groups that were a little bit bigger than my group because I peeled for my allies.

It takes skill to peel for allies, but a skilled player can easily turn team fights into their favor just by peeling at the right times. Its partly why I do not use the rifle that often- its harder to peel for downed allies using it.

Additionally, the engineer is harder to use and learn than most other professions. This is probably a major factor as to why its not widely used.

EDIT:

Damage currently reigns supreme than control or support, so professions and builds that exploit roles other than damage are underpowered and under-appreciated.

Ostricheggs.3742:

XacTactX.6709:

Inscrutable.8347:

a t s e.9614:

Super.2749:

engineer is totally useless in this meta. Can’t team fight, gets destroyed by condi warrior, have to play perfect to survive a hambow or a mesmer in 1v1, gets destroyed by necro 1v1 , really hard to beat eles also, only easy matchup is 1v1 vs thiefs but in 2v2s gets destroyed by thiefs lol.

engi/warr are the fotm classes right now in Solo Q and a bit of guardians too.

Engi takes a dump on everyone in solo Q because it’s solo Q. Ppl don’t peel for each other, haven’t practiced 2v2s or 3v3s with their teammates, aren’t building to complement one another, aren’t in TS, are trolling each other, don’t regroup on wipes, don’t play even halfway decent builds half the time, and even the decent ones they use are copied and pasted from the forums / intothemists.

It works there b/c people do incredibly stupid kitten all game and will eat all of the AoE because most ppl don’t realize that fighting on point against an Engi in solo Q is a death wish unless you’re a Hoelbrak/Melandrus Soldiers Cleansing Ire Warrior who doesn’t give a kitten about condis.

Ppl don’t defend nodes and run around like idiots all match, so you can pretty easily take advantage of numbers situations, like 2v1 the idiot who wanted to run all the way to the far point and die, 2v1 the afk MM necro at their close, or whatever.

So ya Engi works in Solo Q because ppl are stupid and useless there. In real competitive games in higher ranked tpvp, however, Engi starts to fall off in their usual kitten spam builds and instead of building to peel for them, like how Necros are ignored, people just roll another class.

Please tell me what it means to peel for someone, I can tell its a type of strategy and I wanna learn.

This man is right. There is no such thing as “peeling” in this game. It literally doesn’t exist outside of bunkers providing clears/stomps etc. At most you can put on pressure to their DPS through damage itself, but rarely through CC…

On topic, people are gonna give the engi a hard time because the meta has changed quite a lot. I just want engis back to where they’re interesting again. Grenade aim don’t mean nearly as much anymore, but a good engi is still noticeable in any team at the very least.

Peeling isn’t supposed to kill people it’s supposed to deny access to teammates. Of course you have to DPS people to kill them, but what peels do is prevent, for just enough time your teammate needs, what could have been a lot more pressure.

What you’re talking about are solo Q tactics. You’ve always been a solo Q player, so it only makes sense why you would think that actual team play doesn’t work b/c nobody works together in solo Q or yolo team Q. Especially on NA where trolling each other and the other team > everything else.

I guarantee you that good EU players will disagree with you about how “peeling doesn’t exist” and that Apex recognizes how they can peel for each other with their comp.

Lol engineers so weak right now, buff them!

This forum is comedic gold.

Terrahero.9358:

In a coordinated play, in a skilled atmosphere, engineer apparently does not have a place in PvP.

I need only point at the ToL. Second least played profession was Engineer, but a significant margin. Barely more popular then Mesmer, who is also really boned.

When people complain about getting stomped by Engi’s then just take that as a hint on what level they play at, because its miles away from the top.

So according to you which class is the most powerful right now?

Engies are fine,they are jack of all trades doing many things and they have atleast 3 viable builds that can set in any good team,problem is there are not many people out there who wanna test new things they just copy paste most of the time and just cause tcg is more power oriented doesn’t mean engi is not viable

I really did not find I got any good answers and people just got off topic. This thread is entirely useless.

Super.2749:

engineer is totally useless in this meta. Can’t team fight, gets destroyed by condi warrior, have to play perfect to survive a hambow or a mesmer in 1v1, gets destroyed by necro 1v1 , really hard to beat eles also, only easy matchup is 1v1 vs thiefs but in 2v2s gets destroyed by thiefs lol.

Yes, condi classes eat engis souls.

@discussion:
ostricheggs tells the truth. Trust him.

“Viability” according to most of the players of the game is being able to win 1v1s on sides and spamming AoE on point. Those are pretty crappy standards for team strategy, so I’d recommend looking at this link:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Team_roles

After reading that, think about how the examples in there and the strategy therein can be applied to GW2. Most of the “competitive community” in this game is pants on head kittened when it comes to team strat, so you’d be better off learning from the best PvP MMO players’ strategies than anything these yolo Q heroes have to say.

I can see a frontline-midline-backline working with proper execution. I say this with total confidence because that’s a way you can describe Apex’s comp and they won every game except one they had a miscommunication on against almost a complete mirror comp.

As far as where Engi fits into that, they can do any of those three roles to a certain degree. If you wanted a healer style Engi you could run Clerics, Elixir Gun, Healing Turret, Sigil of Renewal and be able to provide pretty impressive CC while healing your team pretty well.

Midline everyone is familiar with how Engis can smother a point with condis, but the problem many Engi players have is they don’t mix it with more utility. They do this because they’re scared of getting trained by the other team and because they don’t have a frontline that peels for them.

Frontline Engi can peel for people better than just about anybody. If you’re worried about ppl focusing your Necro, you can bring Bomb/FT and laugh at them trying to get on top of him. Tool Kit can pull people away from your teammates. You can immobilize an entire side node with Bomb 5. If you evade spam, build tanky, and have all this CC most ppl are not going to be able to cap a node, and your team can reinforce for easy kills while they rage in TS about your build.

I’ll say it again. Learn from the minds that made GW1 PvP so great, not the leftovers from the mass exodus that occurred at GW2’s launch b/c the game was in pre-alpha at release.

Razor.6392:

So according to you which class is the most powerful right now?

Considering we saw a more then 1 guardian average per team, and a near 1 warrior average per team, i’d say these two professions clearly bring something that is vital and yet no other profession can compete them for.