Guild Wars 2

Casual to below average players can advance in the current system. I made it to diamond division while being 6 games under .500 for the season. I’m sure if I “try harded” enough I could make legendary this season. I typically play a couple hours every night most of my matches are between 9 and 11:30 pm Pacific time, and some mornings on the weekend.

Based on my w/l % I can’t have a “high MMR”. I’m 41.6% in ranked matches played and 48.3% for the season.

The only complaint I have about MM is related to people that play not the system. IMO there dosen’t appear to be consequences for people that toss matches on purpose.

It’s great you’re doing so well, I’m happy for you. I was about to write a bunch of stuff about how the MM is flawed but there has been too much of that. Just remember, you can’t judge others based on your experiences. Good luck to you.

imagine that. let me rain on your parade a bit. of course its easy to get diamond this late into the season. all the good players have already got legendary/high tier diamond.

the mmr hell is real. i have 1 account where i made legendary quite easy in the first 2 weeks of the season. on my other account im stuck in ruby. win a game lose a game win a game lose 2 games. i can never progress. i can play warrior/ele/and druid proficiently and switch according to team comp. i know how to rotate and counter rotate, i know how to communicate and i try to impress these ideals on those around me who have no clue. in the end you can only carry so much. i was legendary on both accounts season 1 and 2 as well.

on the said account stuck at ruby i was unfortunate to come across several FULL premades and went against many pro league players and it tanked my mmr. the mmr hell is alive and well.

Losing to ESL players isn’t going to “tank” your MMR nearly as much as my losses to ruby players mid season. Based on my experience the system seems to match you with matches that are a little above your level for a while, then it gives you matches at your level. I’m sure if you played the account as much as I have mine you would play yourself out of it.

lethotix.2973:

imagine that. let me rain on your parade a bit. of course its easy to get diamond this late into the season. all the good players have already got legendary/high tier diamond.

the mmr hell is real. i have 1 account where i made legendary quite easy in the first 2 weeks of the season. on my other account im stuck in ruby. win a game lose a game win a game lose 2 games. i can never progress. i can play warrior/ele/and druid proficiently and switch according to team comp. i know how to rotate and counter rotate, i know how to communicate and i try to impress these ideals on those around me who have no clue. in the end you can only carry so much. i was legendary on both accounts season 1 and 2 as well.

on the said account stuck at ruby i was unfortunate to come across several FULL premades and went against many pro league players and it tanked my mmr. the mmr hell is alive and well.

Faux Play.6104:

Losing to ESL players isn’t going to “tank” your MMR nearly as much as my losses to ruby players mid season. Based on my experience the system seems to match you with matches that are a little above your level for a while, then it gives you matches at your level. I’m sure if you played the account as much as I have mine you would play yourself out of it.

lethotix.2973:

imagine that. let me rain on your parade a bit. of course its easy to get diamond this late into the season. all the good players have already got legendary/high tier diamond.

the mmr hell is real. i have 1 account where i made legendary quite easy in the first 2 weeks of the season. on my other account im stuck in ruby. win a game lose a game win a game lose 2 games. i can never progress. i can play warrior/ele/and druid proficiently and switch according to team comp. i know how to rotate and counter rotate, i know how to communicate and i try to impress these ideals on those around me who have no clue. in the end you can only carry so much. i was legendary on both accounts season 1 and 2 as well.

on the said account stuck at ruby i was unfortunate to come across several FULL premades and went against many pro league players and it tanked my mmr. the mmr hell is alive and well.

This was exactly my experience.

I got stuck in a losing streak, a big one, so hopped in a 5 man party and to no surprise found myself fighting against a few ESL players. However, because my 5 man party was chosen, the game couldn’t stick me with garbage. The MMR bias had essentially been bypassed. I actually won a few of those games.

The thing about MMR is if you win against players with higher MMR, your own personal score will skyrocket. If you lose, it will hardly change.

After that, SoloQ couldn’t have been easier. The enemy team got all the garbage and I didn’t have to deal with it anymore. This was early during the first 2 weeks long before the good players stopped playing.

It’s not an issue for me anymore, but I certainly wouldn’t be stupid enough to deny that MMR hell doesn’t still exist. Season 2 and 3 matchmaking have been utter garbage, especially season 2.

What they should have done is change the way pips were handed out for season 1. The matchmaking was perfect, but the pips simply didn’t reflect ranking and made matching more difficult as time went on.

MMR give you a score that reflects where you stand among everyone else. They could have geared the # of pips awarded to be based on reaching equilibrium with the MMR rank players had. For example, lets say you’re in the top 5% of MMR score but your pips are in amber among the bottom 5%. Each win simply gives +5 pips and each loss -1 until your pip percentile gets close to your MMR percentile. This way, matching is based on one solid proven matchmaking system and not conflicting with a second.

MMR is by a long shot not perfect, but the concept of MMR HELL is not real. its just a way for others to blame the system rather than their short comings.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

MMR is by a long shot not perfect, but the concept of MMR HELL is not real. its just a way for others to blame the system rather than their short comings.

Ignorance at its finest

SneakyTouchy.6043:

Faux Play.6104:

Losing to ESL players isn’t going to “tank” your MMR nearly as much as my losses to ruby players mid season. Based on my experience the system seems to match you with matches that are a little above your level for a while, then it gives you matches at your level. I’m sure if you played the account as much as I have mine you would play yourself out of it.

lethotix.2973:

imagine that. let me rain on your parade a bit. of course its easy to get diamond this late into the season. all the good players have already got legendary/high tier diamond.

the mmr hell is real. i have 1 account where i made legendary quite easy in the first 2 weeks of the season. on my other account im stuck in ruby. win a game lose a game win a game lose 2 games. i can never progress. i can play warrior/ele/and druid proficiently and switch according to team comp. i know how to rotate and counter rotate, i know how to communicate and i try to impress these ideals on those around me who have no clue. in the end you can only carry so much. i was legendary on both accounts season 1 and 2 as well.

on the said account stuck at ruby i was unfortunate to come across several FULL premades and went against many pro league players and it tanked my mmr. the mmr hell is alive and well.

This was exactly my experience.

I got stuck in a losing streak, a big one, so hopped in a 5 man party and to no surprise found myself fighting against a few ESL players. However, because my 5 man party was chosen, the game couldn’t stick me with garbage. The MMR bias had essentially been bypassed. I actually won a few of those games.

The thing about MMR is if you win against players with higher MMR, your own personal score will skyrocket. If you lose, it will hardly change.

After that, SoloQ couldn’t have been easier. The enemy team got all the garbage and I didn’t have to deal with it anymore. This was early during the first 2 weeks long before the good players stopped playing.

It’s not an issue for me anymore, but I certainly wouldn’t be stupid enough to deny that MMR hell doesn’t still exist. Season 2 and 3 matchmaking have been utter garbage, especially season 2.

What they should have done is change the way pips were handed out for season 1. The matchmaking was perfect, but the pips simply didn’t reflect ranking and made matching more difficult as time went on.

MMR give you a score that reflects where you stand among everyone else. They could have geared the # of pips awarded to be based on reaching equilibrium with the MMR rank players had. For example, lets say you’re in the top 5% of MMR score but your pips are in amber among the bottom 5%. Each win simply gives +5 pips and each loss -1 until your pip percentile gets close to your MMR percentile. This way, matching is based on one solid proven matchmaking system and not conflicting with a second.

The thing is though garbage is relative. To qualify as garbage in Ruby for example you don’t even have to double cap home at start or engage a point 1v3.

I think there are a few issues that make people believe the system is out to get them.

1. There is a big difference between being the best player on a team and carrying it and being the worst player on a team and having the other 4 people pick up your slack. If you want to be the latter, see item 2 because you will eventually find yourself there.
2. People try to game the system by ducking people or queuing with others. This puts them in a place where they really don’t belong and the MM can’t put them on a team where they aren’t a liability.
3. Lots of good players have alts, or just start the season late. While the stuck player at one time had a lot of peers in ruby/sapphire, now there is an influx of legend/diamond players on their way though.

It took you 350 games to get to diamond and you don’t think there is an mmr hell?

regardless of mmr im a way above average player whos has gotten stuck in ruby when im legendary on another account and was legendary the last 2 seasons on both accounts. you dont get to see your actual mmr…how the hell do you know it doesnt tank it as bad? it sure as hell did mine. i get complete ignoramus’ in ruby. MMR hell is indeed real.

How about we just finally go with this basic fundamental fact: GW2 wants us all to find friends and makes parties. My “pre-made” party of emeralds that are on TS together. stands a pretty darn good chance vs the “scary ESL” teams, why? cuz these “scary ESL” teams are really just everyday players like everyone else, except they found and formed a party with other folks they can trust not to be dumb and/or communicate with each other and build their comp’s appropriate to the team they face. The MMR hell IS real, this game simply does not support solo play, was stuck on saph and ruby both forever, and every time I “broke free” was with parties, some from full friends on ts and some from gradual pickup and went on huge win streaks. I’d pick out that one or two fellas from a losing match that played well, and ask them if they wanted to party for next match, rinse and repeat till all of a sudden a party that kicks booh’tay’ is formed and we demolish. these scary ESL teams are formed the same way, one guy got sick of losing pug matches, found one person that felt the same and ect till they were all on voice chat together.
Keep in mind yall, ANET is struggling to make money and want this game to become an E-sport staple so that they CAN make some money off it, they would be dumb to cater to “solo” que because they simply cannot build teams and hype via solo que. and profit for them can only make the game better for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why d’ya think they waste so much bs on the trading post? because they don’t earn a monthly income from us! and to keep they money imput they are grasping at straws.
If you think “oh corporate evil just trying to make a buck” well heads up them “making a buck” can do nothing but allow them to produce a better product for us all. “they don’t care about community opinion” well, they certainly could do better imo but not if no one’s paying them to do so, get the drift?

In Short: yes MMR hell is very real, kinda meant to be cuz they want teams formed, cuz they want a league formed, cuz they want E-sport attention, cuz “somehow” they’ll get the income we DON’T provide from monthly subscription that way. Plus, ya know, it’ll just be a heck of alot more fun that way =P

-yawn- Heard it all before.

NEXT!!

The math behind it says so. I agree they could silence a lot of the discussion by actually publishing your MMR. Keep in mind that ruby is full of people like me now. The good players are all out of it, so you have to find a way to win without top tier players on your team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

lethotix.2973:

regardless of mmr im a way above average player whos has gotten stuck in ruby when im legendary on another account and was legendary the last 2 seasons on both accounts. you dont get to see your actual mmr…how the hell do you know it doesnt tank it as bad? it sure as hell did mine. i get complete ignoramus’ in ruby. MMR hell is indeed real.

Faux Play.6104:

The math behind it says so. I agree they could silence a lot of the discussion by actually publishing your MMR. Keep in mind that ruby is full of people like me now. The good players are all out of it, so you have to find a way to win without top tier players on your team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

lethotix.2973:

regardless of mmr im a way above average player whos has gotten stuck in ruby when im legendary on another account and was legendary the last 2 seasons on both accounts. you dont get to see your actual mmr…how the hell do you know it doesnt tank it as bad? it sure as hell did mine. i get complete ignoramus’ in ruby. MMR hell is indeed real.

set math in an ever changing fluid environment can never be wrong? hmm. interesting.
there are so many elements involved that math isnt end all be all. im stuck in a mmr hell and i know it. i can recreate the same experience and promise you cant climb out of a certain bracket. i will even pay for a new account..tank the mmr and let you climb out of the non existent mmr hell. you game?

also without seeing our mmr..how do you know the math is working as intended?

Do you think the world is flat too, or the sun revolves around the earth? Their MMR system was very good at predicting the outcome of matches and making a 50/50 split too good in fact. If you look at the numbers on the original leaderboard, nearly every person in the top 1k was between 45-55% wins. There were a few outliers but they didn’t play very many matches.

lethotix.2973:

also without seeing our mmr..how do you know the math is working as intended?

MMR Hell is very real and I can prove it. Just look at my screenshots.

What bracket? Just make it one that has HOT. Not sure I could get much past entry level ruby on a f2p account.

lethotix.2973:

Faux Play.6104:

The math behind it says so. I agree they could silence a lot of the discussion by actually publishing your MMR. Keep in mind that ruby is full of people like me now. The good players are all out of it, so you have to find a way to win without top tier players on your team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

lethotix.2973:

regardless of mmr im a way above average player whos has gotten stuck in ruby when im legendary on another account and was legendary the last 2 seasons on both accounts. you dont get to see your actual mmr…how the hell do you know it doesnt tank it as bad? it sure as hell did mine. i get complete ignoramus’ in ruby. MMR hell is indeed real.

set math in an ever changing fluid environment can never be wrong? hmm. interesting.
there are so many elements involved that math isnt end all be all. im stuck in a mmr hell and i know it. i can recreate the same experience and promise you cant climb out of a certain bracket. i will even pay for a new account..tank the mmr and let you climb out of the non existent mmr hell. you game?

Faux Play.6104:

Do you think the world is flat too, or the sun revolves around the earth? Their MMR system was very good at predicting the outcome of matches and making a 50/50 split too good in fact. If you look at the numbers on the original leaderboard, nearly every person in the top 1k was between 45-55% wins. There were a few outliers but they didn’t play very many matches.

Sure. But it was depending on having those equal matches to work properly. Now, that every match is unbalanced by design, that system simply cannot function right anymore.

So, system assigns MMR assuming the matches are equal. Other part of the system creates non-equal matches, putting players on winners or losers team according to their MMR, assuming that MMR is assigned correctly by the previously mentioned algorithm. Both assumptions happen to be untrue.

What could go wrong?

He offered to pay for it. I’m down if it is something reasonable.

Furious.1283:

Faux Play.6104:

What bracket? Just make it one that has HOT. Not sure I could get much past entry level ruby on a f2p account.

lethotix.2973:

Faux Play.6104:

The math behind it says so. I agree they could silence a lot of the discussion by actually publishing your MMR. Keep in mind that ruby is full of people like me now. The good players are all out of it, so you have to find a way to win without top tier players on your team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

lethotix.2973:

regardless of mmr im a way above average player whos has gotten stuck in ruby when im legendary on another account and was legendary the last 2 seasons on both accounts. you dont get to see your actual mmr…how the hell do you know it doesnt tank it as bad? it sure as hell did mine. i get complete ignoramus’ in ruby. MMR hell is indeed real.

set math in an ever changing fluid environment can never be wrong? hmm. interesting.
there are so many elements involved that math isnt end all be all. im stuck in a mmr hell and i know it. i can recreate the same experience and promise you cant climb out of a certain bracket. i will even pay for a new account..tank the mmr and let you climb out of the non existent mmr hell. you game?

You can’t. You need to PAY for another account, I just tested it.

Hi All!

On a related topic, if you could all respond to this question, might help the community better understand the current status of MM/MMR.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/What-division-do-you-think-you-belong-to/first#post6222925