Guild Wars 2

First of all i must say that i dont like the meta we are playing now. But when you play to many pvp matches has i do (i almost only do pvp) you start to notice some things that are hapening all the time in matches.

1) AI fighting for the players (its not pvp in my opinion).
2) To many clones, spirits, minions, turrets and spirit weapons all of them with Croud Control habilities in one tiny spot (when they are all on the same team you know the picture)
3) Too many dodges,evades, teleports and get of the jail free cards for some classes.

This 3 points are obvious to everyone and i dont want to say here if they are fair or not.

The point is, to be abble to fight for a chance to win against that 3 points its necessary to nuke that area with conditions. Its a must to kill all the AI in that point.
In my opinion ANet only should fix the AOE Spam when they fix the 3 points above.

no its not

we had all this before we had condimeta and everything was fine

and because today is a patchday: “dear arenanet dont forget to nerf finaly this kitten necroclass”

thx

So today is patch day.

Dear ANet please nerf the necro class has Romek wants but before that fix that 3 points i mentioned.
After that there is no reason to have so many AOE Spam.
And dont Forget thief blind spam also.
And mesmer clone spam also.

So many spam…

Romek.4201:

everything was fine

Ehm…not really fine. Now it’s simply worse than before.

silentnight warrior.2714:

So today is patch day.

But nothing will change cause there is PAX final incoming.

At least, they said “no big balance until PAX ended”.

I three years, when nobody will play any PvP related content in GW2 anymore. If you ask what killed GW2 PvP they will say two things:

ESL and PAX

But i can give you some relief. There will be more legendaries ands 15k WvW ranks to grind. So you can all just swap to those two contents.
WvW will be against NPCs only though. As the delicate and very expensive serverengines cant be bothered to handle real players fighting each others for a garrison.

Zumy.6318:

ESL and PAX

I’ll say “Anet and Esport (obsession)”.

ok the thing is those meta builds screw up a ton of other builds if they get nerfed. if u nerf all phantasms, yes the phantasm builds will get weaker and maybe are still sorta viable, but it would affect every single mesmer that doesent use those spvp builds. as a condi/reflection mesmer i have very little dps, but the phantasm is the only one that allows me to deal a little more dmg than just a 435 autoattack hit.

also the clone on dodge is good for shatterers and needed. anet made class that shatters a lot, so nerfing clone production would affect and weaken every mesmer out there and a lot of builds that arent shatter would become not viable anymore and therefore would force us into those spvp builds even more.

same with every class out there. u nerf something that everyone qq’s about and it happens to be a core element of the class it will hurt every build and a class could become completely up with no build variety.

what do u expect? if u remove (or nerf to the ground) every class specific skill then we would have no more mesmers( they would be called the weaker version of a warrior with no armor or toughness or dps, but hey they got a sword), no more rangers( they would be petless very weak versions of thieves without stealth,dps or mobility), elementalist would be a hobbit version of gandalf the grey that has only autoattacks on staff left.

seriously stop whining about ai and all the stuff your class cant do and start focusing on stuff your class can do.

Is umbalanced fight every time.
As warrior i am unnumbered against mesmer, ranger, necros and engineers. No talking about these classes have insane sustain.

Actually the ranger’s pet have more health and armor than warrior, no talking about the spirits. Add these spirits and pets to ranger itself and have a boss.
Mesmers, Engineers and necros are the same case, sum power, armor, health and skills of all then surpass far my warrior.

Anet need reduce summon status.
The sum of all sumons could be “X” in terms of status, how more summons, more weak they are. And no forget the cooldown.
Ex:
1 summon = X power, X tough, and X health.
2 summons = X/2 power, X/2 tough, and X/2 health.
3 Summons = X/3 power, X/3 tough, and X/3 health.
…
…
This prevents some classes run outnumbered, in ridiculous advantage.

JETWING.2759:

Is umbalanced fight every time.
As warrior i am unnumbered against mesmer, ranger, necros and engineers. No talking about these classes have insane sustain.

Actually the ranger’s pet have more health and armor than warrior, no talking about the spirits. Add these spirits and pets to ranger itself and have a boss.
Mesmers, Engineers and necros are the same case, sum power, armor, health and skills of all then surpass far my warrior.

Anet need reduce summon status.
The sum of all sumons could be “X” in terms of status, how more summons, more weak they are. And no forget the cooldown.
Ex:
1 summon = X power, X tough, and X health.
2 summons = X/2 power, X/2 tough, and X/2 health.
3 Summons = X/3 power, X/3 tough, and X/3 health.
…
…
This prevents some classes run outnumbered, in ridiculous advantage.

and this would nerf every build out there to the ground. the thing is u guys attack specific builds. u want balance, but this destroy balnce and forces people to actually use those builds u hate so much, becaue they have no other viable options left. yes we got phantasms and i die to them too sometimes, but i die a lot more often to backstabs or necro conditions and vs engis…sry but i die a looooot to them aswell, also warriors and rangers…so yeah if get caught off guard, u will die quickly.

the speed in spvp is very very high. so yeah u have to dodge and block a lot. otherwise u get killed very fast.the moment i run out of dodges, im toast…

I just wanted to stop in and suggest my opinion:
MM necros require most skill than most other builds to play.

1. Their pets aren’t phantasms, their damage is just okay. You can kite and kill them, they’re mobile DoTs.
2. It’s like a class that swings a not-so-devastating wrecking ball, the skill is keeping the enemy in place to allow the stupid-ai to keep up on the enemy and do what they need to.
3. They are MASSIVELY weak to AOE.
4. Teleports counter them.
5. You have to put 80+% of your trait into them to make them viable, leaving you weaker (and useless when your minions die to the insane cleave).
6. You have to learn to fend for yourself if they die, you don’t just say, oh my entire build is gone, lets just /suicide…
7. Getting off 1.5 sec casts over and over in mid-fight on very obvious animations isn’t always the easiest thing to do.
8. You don’t have any CC breaks/Spectral armor/Walk etc, because you don’t have 6 utility spots like some people think. Sometimes you will have 1 CC break if you run Flesh Wurm, which sacrifices yet another minion, making you play with less and making the traits more useless you spent into minions. Or you can leave one out all together and run Well of Power, so you have 1- 50 second CD cc break.
9. Landing a Putrid explosion where you have to wait for the little rat to get up to the enemy and hope they don’t move, evade, what ever once they finally do isn’t always as easy as clicking a button.
10. There’s more skill involved in keeping uptime for AI than signets that supply passive buffs, and RNG traits what say 30% of the time you’ll do something else (brainless). This game isn’t exactly hard, but having pets doesn’t mean the whole build is brainless, in fact if you actually think about how much mobility and movement is in pvp you’d realize its harder to handle than spamming 2-3 on a thief, or 3-2 f1 on a Mesmer, etc. The game isn’t hard as it is, its down to combos. At least MM requires you to think about how to keep your enemy in place the best/most efficient way, and when the best time to explode minions would be.

So yeah, while getting CC chained, aoe bombed, snares, and having to deal with rather long cast times in general, and people just naturally moving around a lot, it’s not that “faceroll”.

In conquest, being "onpoint’ just means I’ll be minionless in about 5 seconds. The best we have is side-point bunking, in which you better hope someone doesn’t go on high grounds and AOE you, or stun lock you, or moa you, or use any form of mass condies on you… The more you know.

Don’t expect big balance changes in today’s patch, because they are still waiting for the PAX finals…

P.S. Well that’s one of the reasons. It may also act as an excuse, heh.

selan.8354:

ok the thing is those meta builds screw up a ton of other builds if they get nerfed. if u nerf all phantasms, yes the phantasm builds will get weaker and maybe are still sorta viable, but it would affect every single mesmer that doesent use those spvp builds. as a condi/reflection mesmer i have very little dps, but the phantasm is the only one that allows me to deal a little more dmg than just a 435 autoattack hit.

also the clone on dodge is good for shatterers and needed. anet made class that shatters a lot, so nerfing clone production would affect and weaken every mesmer out there and a lot of builds that arent shatter would become not viable anymore and therefore would force us into those spvp builds even more.

same with every class out there. u nerf something that everyone qq’s about and it happens to be a core element of the class it will hurt every build and a class could become completely up with no build variety.

what do u expect? if u remove (or nerf to the ground) every class specific skill then we would have no more mesmers( they would be called the weaker version of a warrior with no armor or toughness or dps, but hey they got a sword), no more rangers( they would be petless very weak versions of thieves without stealth,dps or mobility), elementalist would be a hobbit version of gandalf the grey that has only autoattacks on staff left.

seriously stop whining about ai and all the stuff your class cant do and start focusing on stuff your class can do.

Man i just want to PvP.
Right now what we have in the mists is not PvP with only one exception: When two warriors fight each other.
All the other fights you have to be pay atention to the player + clones/minions/spirits/ spirit weapons/turrets/Guild of thiefs and even elementals.
When you got AI to do YOUR job its not PvP.

samo.1054:

Don’t expect big balance changes in today’s patch, because they are still waiting for the PAX finals…

I was not expecting changes today.

I´m just saying that before thay nerf AOE Condition Spam they should take care of that 3 points before, because when you have all that points in a game, AOE Condition Spam is a must have.

Edit: ALso in my opinion when they fix that 3 points and the AOE Spam the game will be much more balanced.

silentnight warrior.2714:

selan.8354:

ok the thing is those meta builds screw up a ton of other builds if they get nerfed. if u nerf all phantasms, yes the phantasm builds will get weaker and maybe are still sorta viable, but it would affect every single mesmer that doesent use those spvp builds. as a condi/reflection mesmer i have very little dps, but the phantasm is the only one that allows me to deal a little more dmg than just a 435 autoattack hit.

also the clone on dodge is good for shatterers and needed. anet made class that shatters a lot, so nerfing clone production would affect and weaken every mesmer out there and a lot of builds that arent shatter would become not viable anymore and therefore would force us into those spvp builds even more.

same with every class out there. u nerf something that everyone qq’s about and it happens to be a core element of the class it will hurt every build and a class could become completely up with no build variety.

what do u expect? if u remove (or nerf to the ground) every class specific skill then we would have no more mesmers( they would be called the weaker version of a warrior with no armor or toughness or dps, but hey they got a sword), no more rangers( they would be petless very weak versions of thieves without stealth,dps or mobility), elementalist would be a hobbit version of gandalf the grey that has only autoattacks on staff left.

seriously stop whining about ai and all the stuff your class cant do and start focusing on stuff your class can do.

Man i just want to PvP.
Right now what we have in the mists is not PvP with only one exception: When two warriors fight each other.
All the other fights you have to be pay atention to the player + clones/minions/spirits/ spirit weapons/turrets/Guild of thiefs and even elementals.
When you got AI to do YOUR job its not PvP.

I wouldn’t say spamming stuns (the most viable warrior build out there) is skillful play… I think you’re just behind on times, warriors are just as good/cheesy as other classes if you build correctly for the current times/meta… Sounds like you’re just one of those people who hold onto “I’m bad, but I can get away with it because I blame my lack of ability on how bad the warrior class is”, hint: its not… Mace/Shield+Hammer is incredibly stupid. Mace+Shield+GS is also very effective. LB+ S/S is also good for condi builds, which can absolutely wreck someone and easily stacks 18+ bleeds if played well, while having 8-10 seconds of condition immunity, and access to stability, and Signet of stamina/healing. Warriors are in are just as cheesy now as everything else. Have you not seen all the “stunlocking is pvp?” type threads…

Ronpierce… You talk about, what seems to be mesmer AI and how ridiculous it is where the mm necro and spirit rangers are currently abusing Ai the most at this point of time and How you spend 80% of traits on minions and call it brainless for a mesmer doing the same??

You have just proven your whole argument invalid. You also seem to think that mesmer can spec 30/30/30/30/30?? We can not be boss at shatter and phantasm all at once..You know this right???

A little bit of background… I main mes, play necro and thief.. I must admit, the necro is just cheese atm with coniditions… Now, if i were to play phantasm, i would be expected to trait into phantasm, just as you would be to trait for minions.. Now, phantasm do true damage, have very, very little HP now after nerf and moderately high cool downs.. So how should we spec for them if those are key traits of phantasms? Oh, thats right! Damage increase, HP buff and CD reduction.. Now taking these traits also leave the mesmer with nothing defensive and very squishy, risk vs reward is much higher on this spec than an MM Necro..

A lot of people also seem to think that phantasm are OP because of ONE))) Single annoying phantasm that takes no skill in placing or risk. Now why dont you focus on that ONE)) rather than say NERF NERF NERF OP MES BEAT ME!!!!!

Or how about try play the class?! that certainly helped me with necros, and their OP condition spam for days.. Now i only struggle against highly skilled necros, no more nub scruub necro i see almost in every game.

ronpierce.2760:

silentnight warrior.2714:

selan.8354:

ok the thing is those meta builds screw up a ton of other builds if they get nerfed. if u nerf all phantasms, yes the phantasm builds will get weaker and maybe are still sorta viable, but it would affect every single mesmer that doesent use those spvp builds. as a condi/reflection mesmer i have very little dps, but the phantasm is the only one that allows me to deal a little more dmg than just a 435 autoattack hit.

also the clone on dodge is good for shatterers and needed. anet made class that shatters a lot, so nerfing clone production would affect and weaken every mesmer out there and a lot of builds that arent shatter would become not viable anymore and therefore would force us into those spvp builds even more.

same with every class out there. u nerf something that everyone qq’s about and it happens to be a core element of the class it will hurt every build and a class could become completely up with no build variety.

what do u expect? if u remove (or nerf to the ground) every class specific skill then we would have no more mesmers( they would be called the weaker version of a warrior with no armor or toughness or dps, but hey they got a sword), no more rangers( they would be petless very weak versions of thieves without stealth,dps or mobility), elementalist would be a hobbit version of gandalf the grey that has only autoattacks on staff left.

seriously stop whining about ai and all the stuff your class cant do and start focusing on stuff your class can do.

Man i just want to PvP.
Right now what we have in the mists is not PvP with only one exception: When two warriors fight each other.
All the other fights you have to be pay atention to the player + clones/minions/spirits/ spirit weapons/turrets/Guild of thiefs and even elementals.
When you got AI to do YOUR job its not PvP.

I wouldn’t say spamming stuns (the most viable warrior build out there) is skillful play… I think you’re just behind on times, warriors are just as good/cheesy as other classes if you build correctly for the current times/meta… Sounds like you’re just one of those people who hold onto “I’m bad, but I can get away with it because I blame my lack of ability on how bad the warrior class is”, hint: its not… Mace/Shield+Hammer is incredibly stupid. Mace+Shield+GS is also very effective. LB+ S/S is also good for condi builds, which can absolutely wreck someone and easily stacks 18+ bleeds if played well, while having 8-10 seconds of condition immunity, and access to stability, and Signet of stamina/healing. Warriors are in are just as cheesy now as everything else. Have you not seen all the “stunlocking is pvp?” type threads…

Man… I just want to PvP.
I dont like spams in any way (as a warrior or as other class). But as i said, before they fix the spam they need to fix that 3 points first.

Till then AOE Spams are a must have in this game.

Psych.6527:

Ronpierce… You talk about, what seems to be mesmer AI and how ridiculous it is where the mm necro and spirit rangers are currently abusing Ai the most at this point of time and How you spend 80% of traits on minions and call it brainless for a mesmer doing the same??

You have just proven your whole argument invalid. You also seem to think that mesmer can spec 30/30/30/30/30?? We can not be boss at shatter and phantasm all at once..You know this right???

A little bit of background… I main mes, play necro and thief.. I must admit, the necro is just cheese atm with coniditions… Now, if i were to play phantasm, i would be expected to trait into phantasm, just as you would be to trait for minions.. Now, phantasm do true damage, have very, very little HP now after nerf and moderately high cool downs.. So how should we spec for them if those are key traits of phantasms? Oh, thats right! Damage increase, HP buff and CD reduction.. Now taking these traits also leave the mesmer with nothing defensive and very squishy, risk vs reward is much higher on this spec than an MM Necro..

A lot of people also seem to think that phantasm are OP because of ONE))) Single annoying phantasm that takes no skill in placing or risk. Now why dont you focus on that ONE)) rather than say NERF NERF NERF OP MES BEAT ME!!!!!

Or how about try play the class?! that certainly helped me with necros, and their OP condition spam for days.. Now i only struggle against highly skilled necros, no more nub scruub necro i see almost in every game.

What in the world are you ranting about? I just said their damage wasn’t like Phantasms(Namely Duelest, and Zerker, I know the others aren’t that great), so we have to actually do more of the active damage ourselves (Also our minions take up utility spots). In no way did I say phant mesmers were 30/30/30/30/30 builds or OP… Holy Christ. I was saying AI in general isn’t that OP, I was just mostly speaking for Necro since that’s what I play. Chill yourself.

Problem with mesmer ? i Am a mesmer ? here is a hint ? look for the signet ? OMG thats the REAL MESMER !!!!

OH heres another hint for a cry babys out there. dodge roll. dont sit in one spot OMG I KNEW THAT nah.. u didnt..

Wait last hint. kill the phantasms. they die so easily even with the hp buff D; u never knew that eithier i bet ? clones do nothing but put bleeding on u WOW bleeding is only ticking for 55 damage. SOOO OP!!!!!!!! lol..

Im tired of people talking about nerfing mesmers.. we arnt the ones killing u.. before we even get another nerf. you might wanna take a look at the other classes that are ruling the whole HOTM as we speak. Necros. Spirit rangers. And engis.. not once have i ever.. ran into a team with more than 2 mesmers.. but ive run into MANY MANY teams with 5 necros and 5 spirit rangers on one team.. and its happened more times than not. Obviously something is wrong there.. i dont mind. any of these classes. because i can wreck them no matter what.. i know how to play my class. but still.. only problem i have with the ranger.. u should not be able to self res.. with the gay nature spirit -_-

Romek.4201:

no its not

we had all this before we had condimeta and everything was fine

and because today is a patchday: “dear arenanet dont forget to nerf finaly this kitten necroclass”

thx

People like you slay me. Things weren’t fine just better. Yep this game was doing so great that even though it sold millions of copies the pvp aspect of it only has about a couple thousand serious players in North America and Im strecthing the term serious I would use it to mean people that do at least 10 ranked matches a week. All those things mentioned here are problems in a game that is suppossed to be mostly about skill. Builds that rely heavily on AI are in fact broken and have no place in this game because it is like half the class is autopilot. I don’t know how people can rail against powerful passive abilities and think powerful pets are just a-ok. Its the same kitten thing.

Kwll.1468:

Romek.4201:

no its not

we had all this before we had condimeta and everything was fine

and because today is a patchday: “dear arenanet dont forget to nerf finaly this kitten necroclass”

thx

People like you slay me. Things weren’t fine just better. Yep this game was doing so great that even though it sold millions of copies the pvp aspect of it only has about a couple thousand serious players in North America and Im strecthing the term serious I would use it to mean people that do at least 10 ranked matches a week. All those things mentioned here are problems in a game that is suppossed to be mostly about skill. Builds that rely heavily on AI are in fact broken and have no place in this game because it is like half the class is autopilot. I don’t know how people can rail against powerful passive abilities and think powerful pets are just a-ok. Its the same kitten thing.

A class that focuses on active CC to allow uptime on clunky AI minions takes so much more skill than 2(or 3) spam, or builds that have tons of 1 click boons and RNG that determine their skill… Oh wait. There is very little about this game that takes actual skill, and the minion builds actually often take more skill to play in high end PVP than the others…

The problem is not mesmers or necros or rangers as a class. The problem is AI doing whakittens suposted to be the player doing.
That leads to unbalanced fights where PvP is not there.

You do PvE against minions,pets, phantasms and then you do PvP if you manage to stay alive till then.

Thats why they need to fix those points before nerfing the AOE Spam

Romek.4201:

we had all this before we had condimeta and everything was fine

Ohhh, that perfectly explains why the population playing GW2 has been patheticly low for the past 6~ months…
This game had an outrageous amount of box sales at launch… millions… and no sub fee… and no MMO PvP competition… yet lost the vast, vast, majority of its population… because everything was going fine?

Just because you feel so, doesn’t make it universal.

selan.8354:

ok the thing is those meta builds screw up a ton of other builds if they get nerfed. if u nerf all phantasms, yes the phantasm builds will get weaker and maybe are still sorta viable, but it would affect every single mesmer that doesent use those spvp builds. as a condi/reflection mesmer i have very little dps, but the phantasm is the only one that allows me to deal a little more dmg than just a 435 autoattack hit.

Phantasm should be tweaked, having to go out of your way to knock out 3~k dmg, for allot of specs, just isn’t a viable option. Sure for some aoe spams and condi specs, yeah they can slaughter phantasms like they are nothing, but that is kittened gameplay… where winning/losing is largely decided by spec…

Other games can get away with having ro-sham-bo style specs because they didn’t choose ‘skirmish-conquest’ as their game type… other MMOs actually focus mainly on teamwork or at very least positioning in a team, while GW2 tossed that out the window… doing that threw all the focus in GW2 on your spec and its strengths and weaknesses. It makes kittened gameplay.

Anyways, one step back, the issue with ‘needing phantasms for some viable phys dmg’ is not so much an issue with phantasms. It’s an issue with ‘viable physical dmg’.
Power/crit/critdmg and +%dmgs, they scale very, very well together…
It’s to the point where you either deal good base dmg, and then get high crits allot… or don’t bother with physical dmg (short of retal cheese).

Nothing will really fix that issue short of…

and/or

The point is pets should not have any role in competetive pvp. Pet specs are pve used and has nothing to do with pvp. Just give a 50% malus at pvp effectivnes and done. No use any more like it should.

He has a good point though on the third one.

YOU CAN NOT nerf AoE without nerfing something else such as extremely forgiving evade frames.

i would like to see minion builds, AoE spam and AoE being more effective then single target get erased from the game all at once.

People are really starting to baffle me with this ranger letting “AI spirits” do all the work for them… Are you people stupid? I don’t even play spirit ranger and I know all they are- are stronger, but killable signets that have to be casted… They don’t do anything.. they stand there and supply buffs that ARENT 100% uptime (10 second ICD) so essentially they’re just signets with an HP bar. How in the kitten is that AI winning the game? If a spirit ranger has 4 pets out and stands afk, guess how much damage an attacker would take? Maybe a little from his actual pet, spirits would have done just about nothing…

ronpierce.2760:

People are really starting to baffle me with this ranger letting “AI spirits” do all the work for them… Are you people stupid? I don’t even play spirit ranger and I know all they are- are stronger, but killable signets that have to be casted… They don’t do anything.. they stand there and supply buffs that ARENT 100% uptime (10 second ICD) so essentially they’re just signets with an HP bar. How in the kitten is that AI winning the game? If a spirit ranger has 4 pets out and stands afk, guess how much damage an attacker would take? Maybe a little from his actual pet, spirits would have done just about nothing…

You should realize, if you have ever actually talked to a person before, that phrases aren’t always meant literally…

For kittens sake, saying something is “like a signet but with a lifebar” doesn’t mean it involves much skill to use. Yes spirits don’t attack for you, but auto-attack does.
Rangers don’t have a complicated or dynamic ability scheme.
Shortbow is quite literally spam 1 unless you feel like crippling the target for a few seconds or interrupting/poisoning a heal skill.
At best its using your 4~ on demand dodge rolls somewhat decently, that is a depressingly lower skillcap than a viable, top tier, spec in any other popular game.
That is what people hate.

Yes there is ‘cheese’ like spirit rangers in other games.
No, cheese doesn’t tend to sit around in top tier esports meta.

garethh.3518:

ronpierce.2760:

People are really starting to baffle me with this ranger letting “AI spirits” do all the work for them… Are you people stupid? I don’t even play spirit ranger and I know all they are- are stronger, but killable signets that have to be casted… They don’t do anything.. they stand there and supply buffs that ARENT 100% uptime (10 second ICD) so essentially they’re just signets with an HP bar. How in the kitten is that AI winning the game? If a spirit ranger has 4 pets out and stands afk, guess how much damage an attacker would take? Maybe a little from his actual pet, spirits would have done just about nothing…

You should realize, if you have ever actually talked to a person before, that phrases aren’t always meant literally…

For kittens sake, saying something is “like a signet but with a lifebar” doesn’t mean it involves much skill to use. Yes spirits don’t attack for you, but auto-attack does.
Rangers don’t have a complicated or dynamic ability scheme.
Shortbow is quite literally spam 1 unless you feel like crippling the target for a few seconds or interrupting/poisoning a heal skill.
At best its using your 4~ on demand dodge rolls somewhat decently, that is a depressingly lower skillcap than a viable, top tier, spec in any other popular game.
That is what people hate.

Yes there is ‘cheese’ like spirit rangers in other games.
No, cheese doesn’t tend to sit around in top tier esports meta.

Um, it is literally what they mean, or they wouldn’t call it AI. They’d say Ranger passive buffs are too strong. That’s not what they kitten about, its thakittens AI… Also, at least they’re signets you can dispel (by killing them). Helpful hint: do it…

All MMO pvp is about EVER is who makes the best/most EFFICIENT (see how ease of play can be part of that?) builds that work against the most scenarios, and there’s nothing wrong with that. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with an easy-to-play build being top-tier, HOWEVER, Anet has a different issue, where maxing dps too often comes from auto attack and there is no real combos/rotations like in WoW, Necro dagger, Shortbow Ranger, etc get too much out of just spamming 1, THAT is the issue, not the summonable passive buffs… kitten , traits are basically ALL passive buffs, many with proc chances, its nothing new… If you look at what the game really entails nothing is that kitten hard… But yes, there are many weaponsets that get no dps benefit (in fact several lose dps) by using other skills, and that’s pretty crappy.

ronpierce.2760:

garethh.3518:

ronpierce.2760:

People are really starting to baffle me with this ranger letting “AI spirits” do all the work for them… Are you people stupid? I don’t even play spirit ranger and I know all they are- are stronger, but killable signets that have to be casted… They don’t do anything.. they stand there and supply buffs that ARENT 100% uptime (10 second ICD) so essentially they’re just signets with an HP bar. How in the kitten is that AI winning the game? If a spirit ranger has 4 pets out and stands afk, guess how much damage an attacker would take? Maybe a little from his actual pet, spirits would have done just about nothing…

You should realize, if you have ever actually talked to a person before, that phrases aren’t always meant literally…

For kittens sake, saying something is “like a signet but with a lifebar” doesn’t mean it involves much skill to use. Yes spirits don’t attack for you, but auto-attack does.
Rangers don’t have a complicated or dynamic ability scheme.
Shortbow is quite literally spam 1 unless you feel like crippling the target for a few seconds or interrupting/poisoning a heal skill.
At best its using your 4~ on demand dodge rolls somewhat decently, that is a depressingly lower skillcap than a viable, top tier, spec in any other popular game.
That is what people hate.

Yes there is ‘cheese’ like spirit rangers in other games.
No, cheese doesn’t tend to sit around in top tier esports meta.

Um, it is literally what they mean, or they wouldn’t call it AI. They’d say Ranger passive buffs are too strong. That’s not what they kitten about, its thakittens AI… Also, at least they’re signets you can dispel (by killing them). Helpful hint: do it…

All MMO pvp is about EVER is who makes the best/most EFFICIENT (see how ease of play can be part of that?) builds that work against the most scenarios, and there’s nothing wrong with that. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with an easy-to-play build being top-tier, HOWEVER, Anet has a different issue, where maxing dps too often comes from auto attack and there is no real combos/rotations like in WoW, Necro dagger, Shortbow Ranger, etc get too much out of just spamming 1, THAT is the issue, not the summonable passive buffs… kitten , traits are basically ALL passive buffs, many with proc chances, its nothing new… If you look at what the game really entails nothing is that kitten hard… But yes, there are many weaponsets that get no dps benefit (in fact several lose dps) by using other skills, and that’s pretty crappy.

???
I don’t think anyone ever said “spirits are AIs that kill enemies for the ranger”
Is that your point of contention?
That you think people are complaining about how spirits actually attack and completely kill enemies while the ranger does literally nothing?

Take a step back, no one is saying that spirits aren’t passive signet-like buffs… no one is saying you can’t kill spirits… they are saying that those things aren’t making good gameplay or a remotely good ‘skill put in’->return situation.

And if you think its good for a game to have low skill cap specs be not just viable, but TOP TIER viable…. if you think in GW2 most of dmg comes from auto attacks and there aren’t “real” (whatever that means) combo’s and rotations in GW2…
We’re in two completely separate worlds.

garethh.3518:

ronpierce.2760:

garethh.3518:

ronpierce.2760:

People are really starting to baffle me with this ranger letting “AI spirits” do all the work for them… Are you people stupid? I don’t even play spirit ranger and I know all they are- are stronger, but killable signets that have to be casted… They don’t do anything.. they stand there and supply buffs that ARENT 100% uptime (10 second ICD) so essentially they’re just signets with an HP bar. How in the kitten is that AI winning the game? If a spirit ranger has 4 pets out and stands afk, guess how much damage an attacker would take? Maybe a little from his actual pet, spirits would have done just about nothing…

You should realize, if you have ever actually talked to a person before, that phrases aren’t always meant literally…

For kittens sake, saying something is “like a signet but with a lifebar” doesn’t mean it involves much skill to use. Yes spirits don’t attack for you, but auto-attack does.
Rangers don’t have a complicated or dynamic ability scheme.
Shortbow is quite literally spam 1 unless you feel like crippling the target for a few seconds or interrupting/poisoning a heal skill.
At best its using your 4~ on demand dodge rolls somewhat decently, that is a depressingly lower skillcap than a viable, top tier, spec in any other popular game.
That is what people hate.

Yes there is ‘cheese’ like spirit rangers in other games.
No, cheese doesn’t tend to sit around in top tier esports meta.

Um, it is literally what they mean, or they wouldn’t call it AI. They’d say Ranger passive buffs are too strong. That’s not what they kitten about, its thakittens AI… Also, at least they’re signets you can dispel (by killing them). Helpful hint: do it…

All MMO pvp is about EVER is who makes the best/most EFFICIENT (see how ease of play can be part of that?) builds that work against the most scenarios, and there’s nothing wrong with that. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with an easy-to-play build being top-tier, HOWEVER, Anet has a different issue, where maxing dps too often comes from auto attack and there is no real combos/rotations like in WoW, Necro dagger, Shortbow Ranger, etc get too much out of just spamming 1, THAT is the issue, not the summonable passive buffs… kitten , traits are basically ALL passive buffs, many with proc chances, its nothing new… If you look at what the game really entails nothing is that kitten hard… But yes, there are many weaponsets that get no dps benefit (in fact several lose dps) by using other skills, and that’s pretty crappy.

???
I don’t think anyone ever said “spirits are AIs that kill enemies for the ranger”
Is that seriously your point of contention?
That you think someone is complaining about how spirits actually attack and completely kill enemies while the ranger does literally nothing????

Take a step back, no one is saying that spirits aren’t passive signet like buffs… no one is saying you can’t kill spirits… they are saying that those things aren’t making even a remotely good ‘skill put in’->return situation.

And if you think its good for a game to have low skill cap specs be not just viable, but TOP TIER viable….
You fit in perfectly with the GW2 devs.
And the handful of people that actually love how this game plays.

You read what you want to read. One, people complain about “Spirit rangers win because its a cheesy AI build”, regardless of if that’s why YOU hate them, that’s what I was referring to, those people. That’s my whole point about them not being real “AI”, because they don’t DO anything other than act as living signets. You’re complaining they are too powerful and, if that’s your stance, then you’re welcome to have that opinion, and I may agree, but its not because they’re AI.

Also, I don’t love how this game plays… And I even specifically said the issue isn’t the utilities, but the fact that spamming 1 is top-tier play. I agree that’s kittenty, but no BUILD should be useless just because the utilities are easy-functioning. Weapons need to synergize and combo more so pressing more abilities with your weapon is more useful, rather than spamming 1. Auto attack winning should NOT be top-tier, that is true.