Guild Wars 2

yes, im a little child without any arguments and you, big master of tPvP, please teach me the game.

please share your insight with us measly peasants. what class except the soon be nerfed OP-Mancer should we bring to counter this kind of engineer, oh lord of true skill. please tell us how too keep a point capped against this. we are on our knees praising your intellect oh god of classbalance.

LeGi.3921:

yes, im a little child without any arguments and you, big master of tPvP, please teach me the game.

please share your insight with us measly peasants. what class except the soon be nerfed OP-Mancer should we bring to counter this kind of engineer, oh lord of true skill. please tell us how too keep a point capped against this. we are on our knees praising your intellect oh god of classbalance.

any guardian or warrior with high stability up time, for example?

or any class that takes advantage of the lack of stunbreakers an engineer is allowed to take? or the fact that we have two skills with stability, one of which actually negates one of the stealth problems you are having thanks to RNG?

How about actually learning the class you are talking about and being aware of the weaknesses inherent in the build and likewise the skill required to compensate for them?

ZOMG a theif popped from stealth and one shot me!!??!!?!?!?

opopop!! nerf bat plx!

oh wait … i can learn to avoid it.

mew mew go the kittens. pew pew go the lasers. qq go the children.

every half good engi in EU can neutralise a point and/or win duels with this spec.

I dont know on what level you play the game but im talking about TP Invitational, Mist League and ESL. Im talking about the top 10 teams in EU. I dont know if you have any experience on that level but thats what im talking about.

Ignorance is a bliss they say.

So every single engineer that pushes far and wins their 1v1s and sometimes 1v2s is currently playing the hardest to master build in this game and all that without a stun break, according to you.

So how come it is that effective? It has these huge draw backs apparently of being so hard to play and yet it can do without a stun break (you know what that means right? Having no stun break means that when you get stunned, you can’t counter-play, so skill is definitely not what gets you out of that obviously).

If you have watched streams, as you claim, you might have also noticed that these engineers die to each other in turns, when they meet in a 1v1. None of them win all of their 1v1s against the other engineer. Does that mean they are all just really good and they happened to all roll engineers by pure coincidence?

LeGi.3921:

every half good engi in EU can neutralise a point and/or win duels with this spec.

and so can i, because that is the role of that spec.

area denial.

what is Anet’s “vision” for the engineer?

area denial.

If we arent in your base eating yrou pickles, we are throwing greandes on you from one million miles away and blasting RTL procs out of our flamethrowers and bombing people with mini skyhammers.

what would YOU like us engineers to do then?

perhaps the counter isn’t in the game yet because Anet is dragging their heels on balancing, but the spec is working as intended, and it is a relatively new thing in the game that you clearly haven’t learned to cope with yet.

mew mew!

mew!

Med.6150:

If you have watched streams, as you claim, you might have also noticed that these engineers die to each other in turns, when they meet in a 1v1. None of them win all of their 1v1s against the other engineer. Does that mean they are all just really good and they happened to all roll engineers by pure coincidence?

yes. every engineer i’ve met competitively has been an exceptionally skilled player.
yes. we are all better than you.

why?

because people like those in this thread crying for nerfs have no clue what the engineer is really like, and still think that ele’s have a higher skill floor.

nakoda.4213:

any guardian or warrior with high stability up time, for example?

or any class that takes advantage of the lack of stunbreakers an engineer is allowed to take? or the fact that we have two skills with stability, one of which actually negates one of the stealth problems you are having thanks to RNG?

How about actually learning the class you are talking about and being aware of the weaknesses inherent in the build and likewise the skill required to compensate for them?

ZOMG a theif popped from stealth and one shot me!!??!!?!?!?

opopop!! nerf bat plx!

seems like you dont have the slightest clue of what high level (t)pvp is.

a warrior is just useless in tPvP. he will just die in teamfights or get kited all night long. in a 1on1 vs an engineer he will just get destroyed by the amount of conditions an engi can throw at him. and i dont know where you see a warrior having so much stability but thats another story.

the guardian on the other hand will just die without having any chance to kill the engineer when specced for bunker and when specced for meditation/damage he wont have enough stability.

i dont think this “discussion” leads anywhere because you cant even counter one of my arguments. all you say is that we should learn to counter this spec while you have no idea how to do it yourself and that the engi was designed for that.

you asked me where counters were to the area denial spec and i told you.

i never said they were “top tier pvp meta kitten stroking little boys room club” viable.

if something can be countered in the lower tiers of pvp, and not the higher tiers of pvp .. don’t you think that says something about your precious “meta” ?

so i gave you an explenation why the two counters you suggested wont work and all you do is saying “in my kindergarten club where we play gw2 with a joystick or a steering wheel it works pretty good”. please go on comparing two completely different levels of play. i dont even want to compare it with other games/sports. it just makes no sense.

seriously. when you said warrior and guardian counter that it would mean that you actually had problems with those two and that alone told me that you cant be taken serious. when you have problems with these two classes as an node engi and you call yourself an “exceptionally skilled player” all i can do i laugh at your face.

well normally im not that kind of guy but with your level of ignorance and your subjective view of this game/your class/your skilllevel i checked the NA and EU rankings. didnt surprise me that you were nowhere to be found.

try to find some arguments that are at least a tiny bit reasonable before you post and stop QQing because you fear a nerf for you class.

and just for you i copy my post from another thread

“I can agree with most of the OPs arguments but when you change the engineer like you want to he would be an invincible 1on1 machine again.

lets be honest, to play an engineer to its fullest you need lots of practise but when you finally get your things together you are pretty much unbeatable. post patch the only class that can take you on is a necromancer that is stated OP and will be toned down with the upcoming patch.

When you give back the stunbreak for elixir R you will see those farpoint invading engis everywhere. with flamethrower #3 (cone-knockback without casttime on a 15s cooldown) and his bombkit he will neutralize the point in a matter of 15 to 30 seconds in a 1on1 and most likely kill the defender afterwards/while capping it full.

Watch older VODs of TPs Teldo when you want to see it.

The only thing that should happen to engineers is that they should be toned down.

Like i said above, the flamethrower #3 is amazing. I would kill to have a skill like that. but thats not all of that 1 utility. you get a savestomp vs 5 out of 8 classes with #5, a long lasting firefield and a pretty huge toolbelt skill. Airblast (#3) should have a casttime of .5seconds with a noticable animation and probably a cooldown of 25-35 seconds. Incendiary Ammo may be toned down a tiny bit as well.

Toss Elixir R is still an amazing selfrezz on a 2 minute cooldown (traited 100s) for 1on1 situations and at least a decent rezz in groupfights. ok you probably cant rezz someone in groupfights with only that but it helps alot.
Here i would give it a 3 minute cooldown, a casttime of 3/4 – 1 second, a noticable throw animation while casting and maybe remove it from the 15point trait of tools to not have it twice in a single fight. To make up for those nerfs the casttime on Elixir R should be removed and the stunbreaker can come back.
When those changes were made it would be easier for burst dds to stop the damage when engineers toss the elixir while engineers still buy time to let the conditions tick and let their CDs/heal come up again.

For the Speedy Gadgets trait: Ok, you normally dont spec for speedy gadgets (20% faster recharge on toolbelt skills) because you go with Speedy Kits and Invigorating Speed where you can get a 100% Swiftness and Vigor uptime with 2 Adepttraits… I would move the Vigortrait to the Mastertrait and give it a 50% uptime. Swiftness is fine on a 100% uptime. Its still great but without it engineers would need rocket boots to have enough mobility.

and to comment on the heal"problem".. the turret is freaking amazing. as an engineer you have to utilize your combofields pretty well and when you do that your self/groupheal is pretty amazing.

the shield change is ok, look at warriors or guardians.

as mentioned before. engineers have probably the highest skillcap in the game but when you are playing on a higher level other classes lack so much compared to the engineer that the engineer can outshine most of them."

i dont know if that would fix the engineer but its probably a start.

maybe you just aren’t a high tier pvp player if you are having problems coping with the mechanics of your opponent?

shy of combo field control, i believe, there isn’t a single thing that an engineer can do that another class cannot also do, if not better.

Your issue is that the engineer can do a little bit of everything all at once, and that is a disturbing perspective for the one-button “meta” of high tier play, a problem further exacerbated by the fact that one of this game’s best high tier players is also an engineer (and has been since the game’s launch).

and again no arguments.

got better things to do than teaching a know it all that he is living in a dreamworld.

maby – just MABY babysit your closepoint when see their is a bombengi in enemyteam and help with a second player when engi come close?

2vs the engi and hes toast – and ABSOLUT useless for rest of the game after he died 2-3x cause he dont have grenades or something and its a spotwaste in teamfights
(maby good mesmer to be fast from mid to close and back?)

engi dont have stunbreak( they still use elixier r) so 1stun should be enough with mesmerdmg + closepoint defender

AND look forsakers twitch profile – he postet their a engi NODE defender build just to counter bombengi and guess what? He used this in scrimmings vs Teldo and Teldo had absolut no chance and died something like 0:5 and made own video after this with the forsaker build

just be creative – game is young and dont tell always “but but but this isnt meeeeeeta”

edit:
btw vs this forsaker build with netturrets had NOONE a chance solo vs closepoint

edit again: (the Teldot video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y06BTdvCdvQ

ok, here is the situation we face:

when we leave 1 at close he will just engage him, neutralise the point in no time and probably kill the guy defending it because engis are pretty much invincible 1on1.

so we need to +1 this point, that means we fight 3vs4 in mid and 2on1 on close to be able to defend it. it takes best case 30seconds to go from mid to close, kill the engi and come back. in those 30seconds you will have the disadvantage in middle.

when we put a necro on the spot the engi is not enganging our close and just fight middle. he is not that great in middle but is still good at denying stomps and corpsedamage. so we need our fifth in middle too. when he sees that he can just stealth somewhere and decap our point because with perma swiftness/vigor(maybe rocketboots) he can outrun the necro with easily. when we want to send another one to defend, someone that can keep up with him we have the problem from #1.

so in conclusion to counter that engi we need a) an engi with the same build or b) an engi with this forsaker spec. so we need an engi to counter an engi because no other class can do that effectivly.

and here im back at my argument that the lineup for highend tpvp is getting more and more fixed. guard(to bunker/rezz/stomp/groupsupport), ele(for groupboons and combofields), engi(for farpointinvading/closepointdefending) +2 and that is something i dont think is good for the game.

arenanet wants diversity in builds, but that wont happen when you have to bring special classes because there are no other classes that are half as effective.

really its not like we havent thought about our options but when we see things like an undodgable knockback on a 15s CD there is not much to discuss. that skill alone can neutralise a point in a matter of 30seconds.

Complaining about bomb Engies? Now we’re just getting cute…

No wonder Anet doesn’t respond to the threads on these boards.

I LOL’d hard at this thread. Bomb engies? Other than smoke bomb which takes a second to go off and big bomb, which in most situations is pretty easy to avoid, bombs are pretty useless unless you’re playing someone dumb enough to just stand still on top of you. I mean seriously the kit has its uses by it is not OP by any stretch of imagination… I mean seriously?… you guys just crack me up on the stuff you complain about sometimes.

Balance has gone a long way in this game. Only 3 changes I’d make: Necro needs a small nerf the buff was overdone, but that’s not news. Warriors need better healing their sustain is still god awful and make a class that is otherwise pretty good bellow par. Condi removal needs a general rework just like stun breakers got, needs to be spread out more so more builds can access at least some of it, mesmers in particular really need better condi removal tools and passive condi removal needs to go away for something that requires thinking/timing. Do those 3 things and balance is pretty kitten close to awesome.

My suggestion is reduce the burning trait to 2 seconds every 10 seconds (ends up being more like 3 with condi duration). I would do this for both the engineer and the necromancer. Reducing the effectiveness of both classes and their condition overload. I would additionally reverse the doom change for necros to its prepatch levels (and make corrupt boon what it once was).

Yeah, as we are clearly talking about the bombkit as a problem in this thread.

maybe read again before loling hard.. or well try thinking too it might actually work.

the build mentioned is this one: http://www.intothemists.com/calc/index.php?build=-VRw;2cPVv0c-VQFx0;9;4T9-J91475;308-5;0EJ0;3hoHAhoHA2VK

or variations of it with rocket boots and/or 15 firearms/tools.

i dont know if NA has no decent engineers but there is probably a reason why the only reasonable counter to an engineer is another engineer.

I Lol’ed about this thread but mainly due to the ignorance of some engis here.

Henry and Legi give it up – The problem is that there are only 3 or 4 great engi’s we are complaining about: Teldo, Yandrak, Super and some other still decent ones (Koroshi, Traq, …). However engi’s in this thread are nowhere near the leaderboards. They dont know how upper tpvp look like and they will never master their class to the level of the above mentioned.
However its a huge design failure of Arenanet. CC became a huge factor since spike damage was tonned down. However most classes have just kitten CC builds or no access to serious CC (ranger). In contrast Engi outshines every other class when it comes to cc. The main problem is that engi’s are versatile beast. The combination of the three strongest combo fields (smoke, fire, water) + the huge amount of explosion finishers + perma swiftness/vigor + instant blind (which makes a stunbreaker somehow unnecessary) + Selfrezz + 1500+ toughness+ High amount of Burning and Poison on short cd. A well played Engi can override Burning with alot of kitten conditions and spiking him is not possible at the beginning of the fight due to Vigor+ Endurance recovery by elixir R (5 dodges+). In the meantime burning ticks like hell and after your condi remove he will reapply it with his flamethrower toolbelt skill :/.
The main problem for me is that the build is good in every situation. While Ranger was only good in 1vs1, this build is good in 1vs1, 2vs2, 5vs5 – There is no real disadvantage of bringing this kind of engi nowadays. Engi is seriously the new ele.

Actually I would start with removing the water combo field in order to reduce teamfight capability a little bit.

The easiest way to kill an engineer is with a thief or ranger. Mesmers are pretty tricky too.

Yeah,

i think i will just start learning engi myself, thief isnt a great class anyway at this moment.

too bad i lack about 1 year exp with this class -_-;

LeGi.3921:

Yeah,

i think i will just start learning engi myself, thief isnt a great class anyway at this moment.

too bad i lack about 1 year exp with this class -_-;

The funny thing is burst thiefs hard counter engis <3

burst would be d/p?

any decent pvp player can dodge basivenom/backstab in a 1on1 and when you need to 2on1 the engi we are in a bad spot (3vs4) on the rest of the map and will probably lose the teamfight there.

on top of that d/p needs to land that backstab and the engi got a blind bomb, a 7sec blind on FT#5 (instacast), this shield stun and so much area denial that it is pretty hard to be melee with him.

i say it again, to be great with the engi and pull all that stuff off it really takes practise and skill, much more than for example a s/d thief, but when you know your kittens then your are a freaking monster.

but like i said above, as Arenanet is not going to change anything soon, i guess i just roll engi myself and hope that i get good with this class before everyone else realises how OP this class is -.-, (omg he said it!)

HPLT.7132:

However engi’s in this thread are nowhere near the leaderboards. They dont know how upper tpvp look like and they will never master their class to the level of the above mentioned.

To say that a player will never be able to master their class due to having low leaderboard rank or little involvement in high end pvp is a pretty narrow opinion.

Thats not what I meant. The statements were done in two different sentences. However if you have trouble with for example Mesmers as an Bomb Engineer I have to say you are pretty … :-). Fact is a good Engi can kill everything except Bunker Rangers (but even BM Ranger needs to go off point). This has nothing to do with Leaderboards. However players teaching other players how to counter their class and dont listen that it is not always to do it the way they explained, I simply call ignorant.
For example I could tell you that heavy stun is a good counter to BM Rangers. In conclusion Pistol Whip thief should be a very good counter – However did you see teams bringing PW thiefs against BM Rangers? No! Because, despite Stun is the weakness of the Ranger a Pistol Whip Thief on its own is not capable to kill the ranger reliably.

Engis kill BM rangers pretty easy too, lol. Maybe not EU engis and their crazy specs, but I know BM was one of the easiest, albeit annoying, fights I could have had.

I’m honestly not too sure why you guys are having so much trouble with a class pushing far-point that destroys a lot of unprepared teams on their backpoint. That’s especially true in a build designed for the role and is less-than-optimal everywhere else.

If you somehow manage to neutralize what the engi does with EU specific far-point engi builds than you’ve destroyed his reason to be playing an engi entirely.

I am genuinely confused at this thread. Outside of the honest complaint about elixir R (the stunbreak issue never fixed the core problem and just destroyed good builds) I don’t believe that this thread has any merit. It’s like complaining far-point thieves need a nerf because your mesmer backpoint is getting destroyed.

Switch your necro, other engi or any other class that can 1v1 that build to your backpoint, communicate where the engi is at all times INCLUDING respawns, watch your backpoint like a hawk and laugh your way to victory as the engi struggles in a different role.

A good comparison would be phantasm mesmers. They’re 1v1 gods, extremely difficult to kill but once you find someone who can kill them they become useless. Either that or just ignore them and find a way to deal with it with either high mobility back-caps yourself or winning your teamfights at mid to collapse on the engi.

yeah i thought i would pull back from this thread but i guess i have to answer that post. maybe someone will actually give a suggestion that works.

btw do you think thakittens coincidence that engineers won in the recent 1on1 tournaments in EU and NA? i dont.

and again ostricheggs: what class would you bring to counter the engineer?

i dont know if you have red my recent posts but to your necro/other engi suggestion i quote myself:

“when we leave 1 at close he will just engage him, neutralise the point in no time and probably kill the guy defending it because engis are pretty much invincible 1on1.

so we need to +1 this point, that means we fight 3vs4 in mid and 2on1 on close to be able to defend it. it takes best case 30seconds to go from mid to close, kill the engi and come back. in those 30seconds you will have the disadvantage in middle.

when we put a necro on the spot the engi is not enganging our close and just fight middle. he is not that great in middle but is still good at denying stomps and corpsedamage. so we need our fifth in middle too. when he sees that he can just stealth somewhere and decap our point because. with perma swiftness/vigor(maybe rocketboots) he can outrun the necro easily. when we want to send another one to defend, someone that can keep up with him we have the problem from #1.

so in conclusion to counter that engi we need a) an engi with the same build or b) an engi with this forsaker spec. so we need an engi to counter an engi because no other class can do that effectivly."

Give the necro a warhorn and flesh wurm, sacrifice epidemic or a spectral skill.

An engi without rocketboots will not outrun a necro with warhorn, let alone flesh wurm.

If you do not see the engi then assume that he is going for your point. React accordingly. Communicate where he is AT ALL TIMES. This should happen anyways for all players, but keep a special tab on the engi. If he engages in any fights then he won’t be useful and will be extremely vulnerable. If you cannot kill a bomb/FT engi in a teamfight then your team has more problems than your backpoint.

Otherwise, find a build that can beat said engi 1v1 on another class. I’m sure there are plenty given that he’ll have no stunbreak…

Ostricheggs.3742:

Give the necro a warhorn and flesh wurm, sacrifice epidemic or a spectral skill.

An engi without rocketboots will not outrun a necro with warhorn, let alone flesh wurm.

If you do not see the engi then assume that he is going for your point. React accordingly.

Otherwise, find a build that can beat said engi 1v1 on another class. I’m sure there are plenty given that he’ll have no stunbreak…

even as a warrior i can beat these teldo specced enginuurs, it’s hard but they are not as godmode as some people make them out to be :/

LeGi.3921:

burst would be d/p?

any decent pvp player can dodge basivenom/backstab in a 1on1 and when you need to 2on1 the engi we are in a bad spot (3vs4) on the rest of the map and will probably lose the teamfight there.

on top of that d/p needs to land that backstab and the engi got a blind bomb, a 7sec blind on FT#5 (instacast), this shield stun and so much area denial that it is pretty hard to be melee with him.

i say it again, to be great with the engi and pull all that stuff off it really takes practise and skill, much more than for example a s/d thief, but when you know your kittens then your are a freaking monster.

but like i said above, as Arenanet is not going to change anything soon, i guess i just roll engi myself and hope that i get good with this class before everyone else realises how OP this class is -.-, (omg he said it!)

Yes and good thiefs can always land a backstab. When you are playing the super op engineer you will see first hand how well the do against a good thief on point. Engineers lost all their reliable stun breakers. I am getting really tired of people who have no clue about the class decide how to balance it. Also you do know engi was nerfed last patch right?

@Vuh: Then you should face someone that can actually play this spec. I played several classes and specs and i never had problems vs warriors.

@Derps: yeah, im getting tired of people like you too.

It’s hard to argue with unexpierenced players, which never have seen the competitive side in this game. However they can write whatever they want, because it’s the internet.

Play an engi and join the godly op class.
Then i will play a thief and completely burst down your engi because thief are the counter to engis.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

It’s hard to argue with unexpierenced players, which never have seen the competitive side in this game. However they can write whatever they want, because it’s the internet.

truth be told. still i tried (past tense).

Lets just nerf everything so everyone can be happy and upset at the same time.

LeGi.3921:

@Vuh: Then you should face someone that can actually play this spec. I played several classes and specs and i never had problems vs warriors.

@Derps: yeah, im getting tired of people like you too.

Perpahs you should face a warrior who actully can tell the difference between his rear and his sword..

But you are saying that this Super from Car Crash or whatever can’t play his engi? Or that teldo is bad at his own spec too?

Or to be fair, super almost beat me with rez elixir and elite( both of us got help while he was self rezing). And Teldo ran away / got help by a ranger(this time it was a 1v1 in a hotjoin tho).

And i’m quite sure i’ll give you plenty of trouble vs any of your classes unless you have a phantasm mesmer/super evade built teef(everyone has trouble with those tho) or maaaaaaaaaaaybe some hybrid dps/bunker guardian, haven’t really had an reason/opportunity to fight Guardians 1v1

HPLT.7132:

I Lol’ed about this thread but mainly due to the ignorance of some engis here.

Henry and Legi give it up – The problem is that there are only 3 or 4 great engi’s we are complaining about: Teldo, Yandrak, Super and some other still decent ones (Koroshi, Traq, …). However engi’s in this thread are nowhere near the leaderboards. They dont know how upper tpvp look like and they will never master their class to the level of the above mentioned.
However its a huge design failure of Arenanet. CC became a huge factor since spike damage was tonned down. However most classes have just kitten CC builds or no access to serious CC (ranger). In contrast Engi outshines every other class when it comes to cc. The main problem is that engi’s are versatile beast. The combination of the three strongest combo fields (smoke, fire, water) + the huge amount of explosion finishers + perma swiftness/vigor + instant blind (which makes a stunbreaker somehow unnecessary) + Selfrezz + 1500+ toughness+ High amount of Burning and Poison on short cd. A well played Engi can override Burning with alot of kitten conditions and spiking him is not possible at the beginning of the fight due to Vigor+ Endurance recovery by elixir R (5 dodges+). In the meantime burning ticks like hell and after your condi remove he will reapply it with his flamethrower toolbelt skill :/.
The main problem for me is that the build is good in every situation. While Ranger was only good in 1vs1, this build is good in 1vs1, 2vs2, 5vs5 – There is no real disadvantage of bringing this kind of engi nowadays. Engi is seriously the new ele.

Actually I would start with removing the water combo field in order to reduce teamfight capability a little bit.

I hear insulting people you don’t know and pulling stuff out of your kitten , without making any sort of coherent argument in between, is a valid way to make a point.

This “super engi build” that was linked is just a build, with strengths and weaknesses. It’s mainly condi thus counterable by strong condi removal, most of the good abilities are close or medium range which means it can be kited by 1200 builds, there is one stun breaker and no stability so chain CC will own it, weakness or just timing your attacks well circumvents dodge spam, elixir R rez can be countered in various ways (blowout, cc him out of the area after cast, just LOSing and waiting for it to disappear, etc.) the build has a single 2 condi removal source so it can be oversaturated with condis after blowing turret. I mean if you think that build is good in EVERY situation and doesn’t have exploitable weakness, I don’t know what to say, sorry? Engis are a pretty balanced class right now, strong of course, but with plenty of weaknesses to exploit. Like all classes should be. Oh and yeah I’ve been on the leaderboards since they first came out and been in the top 100 when I don’t solo queue too much. As I’m sure is true for many people disagreeing with the thread… but do please flounder in your groundless sense of superiority and elitism over a computer game a little more. It’s not sad at all. There are many good players out there in this game, as it happens their skill is not contingent upon whether they are among the dozen or so you’ve heard about. Good day sir. I said good day.

To be fair, since I actually do play all the classes I comment about on the forums, I’d consider a very specific Warrior build to be the toughest fight for an Engineer in a 1v1 (as a warrior and an engineer) at the moment.

Necro vs. Engineer depends on cool downs available and lucky dodge rolls (especially if you run no stun break on the Engineer).

Both these points really have little relevance. Engineers get home sick when they are away from the other team’s node, because they can count on a swift decap first of all and an almost certain capture of the point (far less important, which is why the BM ranger while broken was less of an issue as you could drag out the fight on a node that was yours before he would get it).

An Engineer should not be able to decap a node at will, nor should they have an almost guaranteed kill in a 1v1 against pretty much everybody but an Engi (this is especially true when he has elite and elixir r ready).

People arguing this is not true or a “L2P” issue still haven’t answered why nobody seems to be able to L2P or why engineers haven’t stopped going far if it isn’t rewarding any longer.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Engis kill BM rangers pretty easy too, lol. Maybe not EU engis and their crazy specs, but I know BM was one of the easiest, albeit annoying, fights I could have had.

I’m honestly not too sure why you guys are having so much trouble with a class pushing far-point that destroys a lot of unprepared teams on their backpoint. That’s especially true in a build designed for the role and is less-than-optimal everywhere else.

If you somehow manage to neutralize what the engi does with EU specific far-point engi builds than you’ve destroyed his reason to be playing an engi entirely.

I am genuinely confused at this thread. Outside of the honest complaint about elixir R (the stunbreak issue never fixed the core problem and just destroyed good builds) I don’t believe that this thread has any merit. It’s like complaining far-point thieves need a nerf because your mesmer backpoint is getting destroyed.

Switch your necro, other engi or any other class that can 1v1 that build to your backpoint, communicate where the engi is at all times INCLUDING respawns, watch your backpoint like a hawk and laugh your way to victory as the engi struggles in a different role.

A good comparison would be phantasm mesmers. They’re 1v1 gods, extremely difficult to kill but once you find someone who can kill them they become useless. Either that or just ignore them and find a way to deal with it with either high mobility back-caps yourself or winning your teamfights at mid to collapse on the engi.

Just unbelievable – you must be so terrified that your engi might get another nerf to write such kitten and be serious about it.
You’re saying an engi can only 1on1? You compare his team fight ability to that of a phantasm mesmer???
Engi has 2 rezzes, lots of AoE and CC and his dmg through conds is anything else than low and his elite is nothing less than a 2s AE stun + heal and turrets.
And if you watched the recent streams you even might have noticed that putting a necro on close is not an instant win against the engi. It’s more like the engi destroys the necro in 1on1’s on the last few high lvl match ups I have seen.
But my point is that engi is really good in team fights and almost unbeatable by in 1on1’s. There are so many matches on twitch that prove how much influence an engi has who his pushing far 24/7 (hint carcrash vs denial).

nakoda.4213:

The point of AREA DENIAL is to deny you that point.

No Engineer fully specced for area denial is going to be able to burst you down like a necro or a thief.

THIS IS WORKING AS INTENDED

The point of a necro was to be KING OF ATTRITION, and the class largely fit the role prior to release.

IT WAS WORKING AS INTENDED

And they still got nerfed to the ground right before release.

What I’m trying to say is, “working as intended” does not always equal balanced/on a level playing field with the remaining classes.
Ergo: what you’re saying is nothing more but a strawman argument.

Speaking of Car Crash vs. Denial…

If you watched last night’s scrims they had, there’s a very peculiar situation that speaks volumes about the current situation. Here’s the link with this specific situation:

http://www.twitch.tv/xsuperxgw2/b/429025181?t=9m50s

So CC and Denial meet in mid, Denial takes out Mogow and pressures Lord Nag Nag while Super joins the mid fight after capturing close. Denial has the upper hand as they have killed off one of CC’s main dps.

So what would any class but an engineer do at this point? They’d probably join the mid fight and try to stabilize it, as they are one man down.

What does Super do? He runs straight through the graveyard, dismissing and ignoring everything and everyone and heads straight for Denial’s back node while the thief is beating on him, as if he was about to score the touchdown of his career.

Watch for yourself how this plays out and tell me what other class would be able to do that (especially after blowing the first rezz elixir in vain on Mogow while passing).

Derps.7421:

LeGi.3921:

burst would be d/p?

any decent pvp player can dodge basivenom/backstab in a 1on1 and when you need to 2on1 the engi we are in a bad spot (3vs4) on the rest of the map and will probably lose the teamfight there.

on top of that d/p needs to land that backstab and the engi got a blind bomb, a 7sec blind on FT#5 (instacast), this shield stun and so much area denial that it is pretty hard to be melee with him.

i say it again, to be great with the engi and pull all that stuff off it really takes practise and skill, much more than for example a s/d thief, but when you know your kittens then your are a freaking monster.

but like i said above, as Arenanet is not going to change anything soon, i guess i just roll engi myself and hope that i get good with this class before everyone else realises how OP this class is -.-, (omg he said it!)

Yes and good thiefs can always land a backstab. When you are playing the super op engineer you will see first hand how well the do against a good thief on point. Engineers lost all their reliable stun breakers. I am getting really tired of people who have no clue about the class decide how to balance it. Also you do know engi was nerfed last patch right?

You are not getting the point. A class is OP also when just 1 or 2 players are able to reach the necessary skill cap. Only because the average engi gets killed by the average thief doesnt make engi’s more balanced. Everyone aggress that engi is not easy to play BUT if you are able to reach a decent skill level he can do too much. Thats not good balancing.

And Ostrichegg: Phantasm Mesmer in Tournament…made my day…what are you smoking?

And something about actual tn comps: Using a build which is used to counter just a certain class (s/d thief, bomb engi etc) is inefficient because you become more susceptible to other builds. The current builds in the current meta, despite the mesmer which is using a teamfight build, are used because they are balanced. They are good in teamfights but never worthless in 1vs1. If you go for more 1vs1 you become worthless in team fights (like Phantasms, BM Ranger in some cases) and in return heavy team fight relying builds are useless in most 1vs1. Even Bunker Guards are decent in 1vs1 and good ones are capable to kill some classes over time. S/D Thief, Valkyre Ele, Bomb Engi, Terror Necro always the same, always balanced. If you would change something just to be able to kill an engi you have to sacrifice other parts. Its just inefficient to bring things like phantasm mesmers because its useless if you win closepoint but midfights become much harder due to that.

At Julius: Ofc also Engi’s have drawbacks otherwise you wouldnt be able to kill them BUT pls let me tell you something you might not realised so far. Bomb Engi’s also kill Guardians – WUPP – So strong condition removal is not a good counter. Another example? Bomb Engi’s kill Def Ele’s – Wupp – Also Strong condition removal not working. You might want to say that they dont have enough damage but tell me a class with high condi removal and high damage? There is no class…Its either condi removal or damage and Engi’s apply a bunch of conditions so that remove burning always takes more than one condi remove. So again what counters engi’s best? Engi or Necro.

Ugh…. Those nasty bomb engineers X_x

I was just in a match and this engineer stealth and hit me from behind for a 10k ply bar, removed all booms, applied 25 confusion and then used his shield which is kinda like an invul to block all my down attacks! Please nerf!!

@Med

this engi does alot to stay alive in the video you posted – he does much more on his way through graveyard to farpoint than this thief in compelte game

you even played engi before?
guess this engi should die to this #3 spam ey?

and watch the stream from scrimming pardigm vs CC yesterday – pardigm lost all games 0:4 and at the end they was thinking bout making xeph to reroll s/d thief

ye rly bombengi op? for me in this matches was s/d thief the problem

@google.3709
stop smoking wierd things

Ofc it’s always that everyone else is just a noob – doesn’t matter that they’re playing in one of the most successful teams. Something is never op just everyone else sucks so hard…
Really tired of this stupid argumentation.
Please tell me what he exactly did on his way that was so skilled?
1. He wasted his rezz elixir for mogwow.
2. He used his bombs while pressing w.
3. He used another rezz elixir to have a 2nd life.
I’m really stunned at this high skill level. Though I am not saying the engi is not a good engi – he very likely is, but I’m saying it doesn’t take much to be super efficient with an engi atm and that’s not because the player xyz sucks but because engi is too strong.

Did i really read people saying the cooldown of smoke vent is 7s?
20s, 16s if traited. At least get the info right before complaining.

And imho, people here are whining about nothing. Bombs can’t cover the whole area, anyway, just kite from distance – and you can do that while on the point. And just use “your precious knockbacks” if someone tosses an elixir r: you’re making the opponent waste a skill with a base 120s cooldown, i would say it is quite advantageous. You just have to react properly. And if you aren’t able, well, it is just your fault.
So, yeah, it is really that some people can be that bad.

i would be rly happy when i just could do 50% of this nice actions the engi can do in this video with a trapper ranger or any kind of ranger :P
engin have so much different useful skills and anet dont whant give me pet skills controll on ranger because to much skills then Oo…
WHY?
i also have a nice rez skill like this elixiers, its called search and rescue, but i dont have enough skill slots for this, sad.

compare engin and ranger, make rangers look rly bad :P
sry for offtopic :P

KarlaGrey.5903:

nakoda.4213:

The point of AREA DENIAL is to deny you that point.

No Engineer fully specced for area denial is going to be able to burst you down like a necro or a thief.

THIS IS WORKING AS INTENDED

The point of a necro was to be KING OF ATTRITION, and the class largely fit the role prior to release.

IT WAS WORKING AS INTENDED

And they still got nerfed to the ground right before release.

What I’m trying to say is, “working as intended” does not always equal balanced/on a level playing field with the remaining classes.
Ergo: what you’re saying is nothing more but a strawman argument.

hundred nades.

Romek.4201:

and watch the stream from scrimming pardigm vs CC yesterday – pardigm lost all games 0:4 and at the end they was thinking bout making xeph to reroll s/d thief

ye rly bombengi op? for me in this matches was s/d thief the problem

As much as I like TP, most people don’t realize how little they (the people, not TP) know about mechanics or understand what’s happening. The only reason you say the thief was the problem in those matches is because you were influenced by TP’s teamspeak.

They could make an error in judgment and blame the ranger and you’d be here preaching their ranger was carrying the team (even though they never had one to begin with)

That said I really don’t want to get into the dynamics in question, because only a handful of people will be able to make sense of that and we all know that in order to be right on something nowadays, you must be renowned and have a stream, because that’s where it’s at.

Manuhell.2759:

Did i really read people saying the cooldown of smoke vent is 7s?
20s, 16s if traited. At least get the info right before complaining.

And imho, people here are whining about nothing. Bombs can’t cover the whole area, anyway, just kite from distance – and you can do that while on the point. And just use “your precious knockbacks” if someone tosses an elixir r: you’re making the opponent waste a skill with a base 120s cooldown, i would say it is quite advantageous. You just have to react properly. And if you aren’t able, well, it is just your fault.
So, yeah, it is really that some people can be that bad.

Please tell me what “precious knockback” the thief should have used to kick him out the elixir?

A pull would be fine too – so, scorpion wire. But since you aren’t probably dealing condition damage as a thief – so he needs a direct intervent by your part to be downed – you may simply stop attacking and wait a few seconds so that the tossed elixir is depleted.
And you don’t even need a skill to do so.

LeGi.3921:

btw do you think thakittens coincidence that engineers won in the recent 1on1 tournaments in EU and NA? i dont.

Not sure about EU, but I recall that the NA 1v1 winner was running a turret build, nerf turrets too, amirite?