Guild Wars 2

Manuhell.2759:

A pull would be fine too – so, scorpion wire. But since you aren’t probably dealing condition damage as a thief – so he needs a direct intervent by your part to be downed – you may simply stop attacking and wait a few seconds so that the tossed elixir is depleted.
And you don’t even need a skill to do so.

So just don’t attack which results in the elixir being an invul for several seconds? Oh and yeah because scorpion wire is such a viable skill and a must have for every thief build…

tarcheg.4872:

Manuhell.2759:

A pull would be fine too – so, scorpion wire. But since you aren’t probably dealing condition damage as a thief – so he needs a direct intervent by your part to be downed – you may simply stop attacking and wait a few seconds so that the tossed elixir is depleted.
And you don’t even need a skill to do so.

So just don’t attack which results in the elixir being an invul for several seconds? Oh and yeah because scorpion wire is such a viable skill and a must have for every thief build…

Yeah, using skills situationally is too much work for me too.

Choops.3710:

tarcheg.4872:

Manuhell.2759:

A pull would be fine too – so, scorpion wire. But since you aren’t probably dealing condition damage as a thief – so he needs a direct intervent by your part to be downed – you may simply stop attacking and wait a few seconds so that the tossed elixir is depleted.
And you don’t even need a skill to do so.

So just don’t attack which results in the elixir being an invul for several seconds? Oh and yeah because scorpion wire is such a viable skill and a must have for every thief build…

Yeah, using skills situationally is too much work for me too.

I think you missunderstood. It’s not about using a skill, it’s about not taking a skill because it’s not viable because you would have to sacrafice too much.
Or do you wanna tell me that every thief who plays against a group which has an engi (with rezz elixir ofc) is just bad as long as he doesn’t equip scorpion wire? Is that your opinion of being flexible? To run a much less efficient build to have the chance to counter one skill from one class???

It isn’t like you would use the pull just versus engineers anyway. Exactly as people don’t use stun breaks just to avoid getting bursted by stealthed thieves.

So basically you would just like to be able to defeat, alone, any single other opponent with your build.
There are teams for a reason, you know.
And there is still that other counter anyway; even if you don’t like it, it is still better than making him ress again (especially since he wasted that ress already).

Bombs are too expensive traitwise – they cost as much as a main weapon should but dont perform

I understand that people have been using these things to some effect in tourneys but i personally always found them to be meh and can dodge pretty much all of them as long as im playing ranged.

If a nerf goes live it will be the second one i dodged in a row.
I think i’m on a roll.

Also i’m still looking for a recent tourney where i see a bomb engi facerofl people

Edith says: As long as Mesmers run no condi cleanse teambuilds they need to stop qq about being hardcountered by everything that brings condi. If i dont bring a stunbreaker at all (or condi cleanse – not that engineer could make a build that would even be considered viable without cleanse cough portal + rezz op (rezz not rly but anyway))i’m going to get mushed in a CC chain. Staff (2) pretty good at avoiding that by the way – last time i checked.

If I was in eu, right now I would be hunting you down, going in stealth and placing big ol bombs next to you. At every chance I get.

But since Im not there someone else do it for me

tarcheg.4872:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Engis kill BM rangers pretty easy too, lol. Maybe not EU engis and their crazy specs, but I know BM was one of the easiest, albeit annoying, fights I could have had.

I’m honestly not too sure why you guys are having so much trouble with a class pushing far-point that destroys a lot of unprepared teams on their backpoint. That’s especially true in a build designed for the role and is less-than-optimal everywhere else.

If you somehow manage to neutralize what the engi does with EU specific far-point engi builds than you’ve destroyed his reason to be playing an engi entirely.

I am genuinely confused at this thread. Outside of the honest complaint about elixir R (the stunbreak issue never fixed the core problem and just destroyed good builds) I don’t believe that this thread has any merit. It’s like complaining far-point thieves need a nerf because your mesmer backpoint is getting destroyed.

Switch your necro, other engi or any other class that can 1v1 that build to your backpoint, communicate where the engi is at all times INCLUDING respawns, watch your backpoint like a hawk and laugh your way to victory as the engi struggles in a different role.

A good comparison would be phantasm mesmers. They’re 1v1 gods, extremely difficult to kill but once you find someone who can kill them they become useless. Either that or just ignore them and find a way to deal with it with either high mobility back-caps yourself or winning your teamfights at mid to collapse on the engi.

Just unbelievable – you must be so terrified that your engi might get another nerf to write such kitten and be serious about it.
You’re saying an engi can only 1on1? You compare his team fight ability to that of a phantasm mesmer???
Engi has 2 rezzes, lots of AoE and CC and his dmg through conds is anything else than low and his elite is nothing less than a 2s AE stun + heal and turrets.
And if you watched the recent streams you even might have noticed that putting a necro on close is not an instant win against the engi. It’s more like the engi destroys the necro in 1on1’s on the last few high lvl match ups I have seen.
But my point is that engi is really good in team fights and almost unbeatable by in 1on1’s. There are so many matches on twitch that prove how much influence an engi has who his pushing far 24/7 (hint carcrash vs denial).

I’m not “afraid” of my class getting a nerf. History has proven that, I was the first one to say HGH needed a nerf months ago.

Sadly this is not the case. The build is beatable and destroys many standard backpoints and is very subpar in teamfights by comparison to many other standard builds.

I’m just recommending things is all. It’s clear that people don’t wanna listen and would rather insult my experience in TPvP and call for nerfs. If I had a team on EU against these engis I’m sure we’d do fine. The build relies on constant damage from burning via incendiary ammo and large ammounts of CC from shield/FT/bomb kit.

And the problem that people face is less about the build and more about elixir R on reset. It was never a good idea. The best solution would be to move the rez-mechanic to the activated skill and have the endurance refill break stuns and be the tool-belt with an increased cooldown.

ok i trie it with my bad english but hope you guyz get the point

Problem with this is not all classes need the same skill lvl to do good and not all classes CAN do as much as others do
bombengi (teldo build) is very strong and have a very high skill lvl and their are not many engis who can play on this lvl – so whats now?
nerf a class cause maby 5-10 ppl can play it toooo good so all other engis which can play it, but dont carry so hard, cant play it anymore and have to reroll?

THATS the wrong way

we have only 2 classes right now in gw2, engi and ele, which have high skillcap and you cant nerf this cause someone master it – all other players would have to reroll

so to avoid this:
bring the other classes to the same lvl and remove the faceroll from game
@#3sword spam from thiefs or heartseeker pros or shatter mesmer or bullcharge->100b or autoshot afk rangerz and so on

thief necro ranger warrior mesmer and dpsGuardian would need alot work to bring it on same lvl as ele or engi – to see the difference between playerz, good playerz and the pros

but atm i dont see any chance^^ and nerf a class cause some master it is the wrong way – you can see it on ele

ele is still ok and good playerz still do good with this but we have the normal playerz too which fail hard with this class in spvp, get farmed all day and reroll – so not many eles anymore and arenanet still not done with nerfs on ele ( i guess^^) so soon no eles anymore in lower ranks

thats just the wrong way to balance classes on good players when not all classes on the same lvl

What everyone else said.

Edit: wrong thread don’t mind me

Ostricheggs.3742:

tarcheg.4872:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Engis kill BM rangers pretty easy too, lol. Maybe not EU engis and their crazy specs, but I know BM was one of the easiest, albeit annoying, fights I could have had.

I’m honestly not too sure why you guys are having so much trouble with a class pushing far-point that destroys a lot of unprepared teams on their backpoint. That’s especially true in a build designed for the role and is less-than-optimal everywhere else.

If you somehow manage to neutralize what the engi does with EU specific far-point engi builds than you’ve destroyed his reason to be playing an engi entirely.

I am genuinely confused at this thread. Outside of the honest complaint about elixir R (the stunbreak issue never fixed the core problem and just destroyed good builds) I don’t believe that this thread has any merit. It’s like complaining far-point thieves need a nerf because your mesmer backpoint is getting destroyed.

Switch your necro, other engi or any other class that can 1v1 that build to your backpoint, communicate where the engi is at all times INCLUDING respawns, watch your backpoint like a hawk and laugh your way to victory as the engi struggles in a different role.

A good comparison would be phantasm mesmers. They’re 1v1 gods, extremely difficult to kill but once you find someone who can kill them they become useless. Either that or just ignore them and find a way to deal with it with either high mobility back-caps yourself or winning your teamfights at mid to collapse on the engi.

Just unbelievable – you must be so terrified that your engi might get another nerf to write such kitten and be serious about it.
You’re saying an engi can only 1on1? You compare his team fight ability to that of a phantasm mesmer???
Engi has 2 rezzes, lots of AoE and CC and his dmg through conds is anything else than low and his elite is nothing less than a 2s AE stun + heal and turrets.
And if you watched the recent streams you even might have noticed that putting a necro on close is not an instant win against the engi. It’s more like the engi destroys the necro in 1on1’s on the last few high lvl match ups I have seen.
But my point is that engi is really good in team fights and almost unbeatable by in 1on1’s. There are so many matches on twitch that prove how much influence an engi has who his pushing far 24/7 (hint carcrash vs denial).

I’m not “afraid” of my class getting a nerf. History has proven that, I was the first one to say HGH needed a nerf months ago.

Sadly this is not the case. The build is beatable and destroys many standard backpoints and is very subpar in teamfights by comparison to many other standard builds.

I’m just recommending things is all. It’s clear that people don’t wanna listen and would rather insult my experience in TPvP and call for nerfs. If I had a team on EU against these engis I’m sure we’d do fine. The build relies on constant damage from burning via incendiary ammo and large ammounts of CC from shield/FT/bomb kit.

And the problem that people face is less about the build and more about elixir R on reset. It was never a good idea. The best solution would be to move the rez-mechanic to the activated skill and have the endurance refill break stuns and be the tool-belt with an increased cooldown.

The thing I take objection to is you presume that I am saying bomb engi is OP because I cant beat it. I know how to beat bomb engis. There is a very low % chance I will lose to them. However there are huge things the bomb engi does which makes it OP. As have been detailed in this thread. It isnt brokenly OP. But it is still SLIGHTLY too strong.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Otherwise, find a build that can beat said engi 1v1 on another class. I’m sure there are plenty given that he’ll have no stunbreak…

Ranged dps also does the trick, so phantasm mesmer, some ranger builds, and standard necro all stack up pretty well in a 1v1 against a bombkit/bunker engineer.

tarcheg.4872:

Please tell me what “precious knockback” the thief should have used to kick him out the elixir?

Doesn’t need one; poison+dps should do the trick if he’s wearing zerker’s.

This thread is now too much of a joke to actually give opinions on balance, but I can at least throw in some much-needed missing info here and there. I do find bombkit engineers to be pretty good vs. d/p thieves, which is what everyone in this thread seems to be?

I agree with nakoda, you have to to equip skills for those 7 seconds that simply aren’t conducive for spike damage in a 1v1 or 1v2 scenario. Area denial with bombkit is just a plus for the engi If you rely on close combat to deal with him. As an engi, I’ve fought thieves and necros that swallowed my hp pool quicker than any PvE champ monster every did, no matter how much toughness I spec. I can ruin someone’s day 1v1 or at least hold out until my team arrives. I can spoil gank plans for sure, but you have to be a horse led by a carrot to get killed by me. So yeah if a thief wants to escape, a thief can. If a necro wants to throw conditions on me, that necro can to the point where all my effort goes to condition cleansing. And by effort I mean all my finishers and escape methods.

The point is they need to make sure they nerf engi and necro at the same time. Both are OP. Nerfing 1 or the other will just break balance to a level not seen even when ele was the best at everything

Warriors also play on a high skill cap. A warrior with mace/shield and gs with say 0/20/20/0/30, will completely shut down a bomb engi dont care how u r built. its the perfect counter build because most engineers only run one stun break. so that player with a high skill in that build will follow u and stun u all day long and u will be completely useless to your team… atleast other than occupying that warrior’s time for a while eheh

Lunar Corporation.5720:

Warriors also play on a high skill cap. A warrior with mace/shield and gs with say 0/20/20/0/30, will completely shut down a bomb engi dont care how u r built. its the perfect counter build because most engineers only run one stun break. so that player with a high skill in that build will follow u and stun u all day long and u will be completely useless to your team… atleast other than occupying that warrior’s time for a while eheh

Teldo doesn’t even run stun breaks… Cc war with zerker stance would be an effective way to pressure them (blind immunity)

Having lots of fun with teldos build, I can see why it’s strong at the skill cap, there’s so much stuff you can do with it if you time things right. These are the kind of builds ANet should be aiming towards IMO however, nerfing would be two steps back.

Warriors are learning their role is CC.

I can completely shut down pretty much any Engi or Necro due to their lack of Stability to prevent being chain CC’d.

I think it’s going to be interesting to see what happens. CC Warrior’s with good cleansing and Berserker stance are the absolute hard counter to the AOE condi spammers currently.

What do we have doing the most AOE condi pressure? Necros by far #1, Engis coming in #2. These are by far the strongest AOE condi spammers.

They both lack pretty much any form of reliable stability. I don’t think any Necros go 30 SR then take stability in DS instead of 50% crit. And if they do – that’s still only a few seconds in DS only.

Engineers are even worse off. Literally not a single reliable source of Stability. 50/50 chance elixir or 1second.

CC Warrior is the answer to the problem in the current meta I think. I already have teams groaning the second they see Lil Zek on the other side bc they know their Necros are getting stun locked and taken out of every single fight.

nakoda.4213:

maybe you just aren’t a high tier pvp player if you are having problems coping with the mechanics of your opponent?

shy of combo field control, i believe, there isn’t a single thing that an engineer can do that another class cannot also do, if not better.

bunkerele <> farpointengi
ride the lightning ( 40 sec cd 900 range) <> rocket boots (20 /16 sec 1200 range)
tornado (150 sec) <> tornado/rampage (105 sec)
updraft(xD 40 sec), lightning hammer.s windblast (18 sec and easy to dodge) <> magnetic shield (30 sec, impossible to dodge), air blast (15 sec impossible to dodge), big ol bomb (27,25 sec can be covered with glue bomb)
14k hp, 2855 armor w rock barrier <> 17k hp 2735 armor
swiftness only by switching to lightningattunement,updraft, vigor by phoenix and crit <> access to perma vigor, swiftness
no selfrez <> elixir r (condicleanse, too strong teamrez and selfrez 1200 range!)
stackable mediocre power damage <> very good condipressure and strong nodedamage
no stealth <> self and teamstealth wtf ! (engi goes far and u dont see him…)

ah did i mention bunkerele changed their role to offeles, necros , engis….

Ultima.8673:

nakoda.4213:

maybe you just aren’t a high tier pvp player if you are having problems coping with the mechanics of your opponent?

shy of combo field control, i believe, there isn’t a single thing that an engineer can do that another class cannot also do, if not better.

bunkerele <> farpointengi
ride the lightning ( 40 sec cd 900 range) <> rocket boots (20 /16 sec 1200 range)
tornado (150 sec) <> tornado/rampage (105 sec)
updraft(xD 40 sec), lightning hammer.s windblast (18 sec and easy to dodge) <> magnetic shield (30 sec, impossible to dodge), air blast (15 sec impossible to dodge), big ol bomb (27,25 sec can be covered with glue bomb)
14k hp, 2855 armor w rock barrier <> 17k hp 2735 armor
swiftness only by switching to lightningattunement,updraft, vigor by phoenix and crit <> access to perma vigor, swiftness
no selfrez <> elixir r (condicleanse, too strong teamrez and selfrez 1200 range!)
stackable mediocre power damage <> very good condipressure and strong nodedamage
no stealth <> self and teamstealth wtf ! (engi goes far and u dont see him…)

ah did i mention bunkerele changed their role to offeles, necros , engis….

Good analysis.

My point was just the ONLY thing BARELY keeping engis in check right now is necros. If they nerf necro and don’t nerf engi then you will have possibly the most broken OP thing since launch – and that is the engineer. I would say engi is better than necro right now. Sure necro beats engi most the time, but the res, the elite, the utterly op healing turret, the perma swift, perma vigor, the insane cc…

And I dont moan about it cos engis own me. I think I kill most engis 1 on 1. Sure sometimes I die, but even so. That isnt the point.

you write nonsense

engineer has NOTHING changed last patch and got owned before patch from others – not only necro is counter

stop whining

Romek.4201:

you write nonsense

engineer has NOTHING changed last patch and got owned before patch from others – not only necro is counter

stop whining

Um, engie had plenty changed in the last patch.

@ bunkerele comparison: that was my point; having said that, I will own your ele on point or farpoint. Ele is at the bottom end of problematic classes to face, next to warriors and thieves.

Necro, mesmer, engie, ranger, guard, ele, thief, warrior in that order.

but no buffs which made engi op now with the necro^^

lol this guy say necro is only counter and when necro nerf than noone can beat engi – wtf?

its same engi we had before all the necros got their “skill” patched and this engi have same counters as before

and engi is not nearly this op how this guy wanna trie to make it here in forum^^

sry but its just whining and trieing to get something nerfed cause he dont like it – nothing more

It was already before the patch an outstanding class. No one said that happen after latest patch…

HPLT.7132:

It was already before the patch an outstanding class. No one said that happen after latest patch…

^^

IF you are actually having issues beating bomb engi than you got L2p issues.

Every build has a counter. Several in fact.

Bomb engi < condi mesmer, full condi necros (dagger 4/staff4), and full glass cannon GS mesmers.

Better yet dont fight on point. Then they have a hard time beating even nade engis.

This build actually requires skill to play, has team support and is fun to play.

Dont nerf my engi it is finally a build I enjoy.

Thelonious Twig

PS> try running elixir gun over rocket boots some time. Harder to escape but far better team support.

Lordrosicky.5813:

And sword/dagger evade thief too.

Both lame and too strong.

The healing turret espicially could do with a nerf and remove the lame stealth this engi build can get access to.

These two, along with terror necro, are the least fun builds. They are lame and overpowered.

Healing turret is only powerful if you blow all your finishers at once. And that is something that requires timing skill and group coordination (engi/ele teaming blast finishers) hence no need for a nerf. Bomb kit is a very high risk v. reward. The engi has to rush in on point and fight in melee against way more AOE than he has in some cases from ranged casters or nade engis.

Now stealth in engi builds once again requires timing blast finishers and leaps. Also knowing which blast finishers will get you revealed vs. which ones will not. Just because a class is good at point control doesn’t mean its overpowered i can think of 2 other builds that are insanely good point controllers.

jportell.2197:

Lordrosicky.5813:

And sword/dagger evade thief too.

Both lame and too strong.

The healing turret espicially could do with a nerf and remove the lame stealth this engi build can get access to.

These two, along with terror necro, are the least fun builds. They are lame and overpowered.

Healing turret is only powerful if you blow all your finishers at once. And that is something that requires timing skill and group coordination (engi/ele teaming blast finishers) hence no need for a nerf. Bomb kit is a very high risk v. reward. The engi has to rush in on point and fight in melee against way more AOE than he has in some cases from ranged casters or nade engis.

Now stealth in engi builds once again requires timing blast finishers and leaps. Also knowing which blast finishers will get you revealed vs. which ones will not. Just because a class is good at point control doesn’t mean its overpowered i can think of 2 other builds that are insanely good point controllers.

Engi: “Hey guys blast into this field”
Others “Ok cool done”

How does that require skill? Even pugs in wvw can figure out how to blast into fields to stack might or to area heal.

Lordrosicky.5813:

jportell.2197:

Lordrosicky.5813:

And sword/dagger evade thief too.

Both lame and too strong.

The healing turret espicially could do with a nerf and remove the lame stealth this engi build can get access to.

These two, along with terror necro, are the least fun builds. They are lame and overpowered.

Healing turret is only powerful if you blow all your finishers at once. And that is something that requires timing skill and group coordination (engi/ele teaming blast finishers) hence no need for a nerf. Bomb kit is a very high risk v. reward. The engi has to rush in on point and fight in melee against way more AOE than he has in some cases from ranged casters or nade engis.

Now stealth in engi builds once again requires timing blast finishers and leaps. Also knowing which blast finishers will get you revealed vs. which ones will not. Just because a class is good at point control doesn’t mean its overpowered i can think of 2 other builds that are insanely good point controllers.

Engi: “Hey guys blast into this field”
Others “Ok cool done”

How does that require skill? Even pugs in wvw can figure out how to blast into fields to stack might or to area heal.

In the middle of a chaotic team fight where it is you and one other person trying to survive against 4 of the other team…. Timing blast finishers takes alot. And it requires on the fly communication. Not onlydoes the ele need to know the timing on my heal skills I need to know when they are in earth. This same thing goes for [Super Elixir] I put it down and he tornado forms cleansing conditions for everyone on the point while knocking the other team off the point…. That takes no skill too right?

he plays necro he dont have to think bout his combofields and finishers – they work on the fly – he will not understand you jportell

and you can say whatever you want – this guy is just trolling here and trie to get it nerfed just4fun – he dont even have a point

jportell.2197:

Lordrosicky.5813:

jportell.2197:

Lordrosicky.5813:

And sword/dagger evade thief too.

Both lame and too strong.

The healing turret espicially could do with a nerf and remove the lame stealth this engi build can get access to.

These two, along with terror necro, are the least fun builds. They are lame and overpowered.

Healing turret is only powerful if you blow all your finishers at once. And that is something that requires timing skill and group coordination (engi/ele teaming blast finishers) hence no need for a nerf. Bomb kit is a very high risk v. reward. The engi has to rush in on point and fight in melee against way more AOE than he has in some cases from ranged casters or nade engis.

Now stealth in engi builds once again requires timing blast finishers and leaps. Also knowing which blast finishers will get you revealed vs. which ones will not. Just because a class is good at point control doesn’t mean its overpowered i can think of 2 other builds that are insanely good point controllers.

Engi: “Hey guys blast into this field”
Others “Ok cool done”

How does that require skill? Even pugs in wvw can figure out how to blast into fields to stack might or to area heal.

In the middle of a chaotic team fight where it is you and one other person trying to survive against 4 of the other team…. Timing blast finishers takes alot. And it requires on the fly communication. Not onlydoes the ele need to know the timing on my heal skills I need to know when they are in earth. This same thing goes for [Super Elixir] I put it down and he tornado forms cleansing conditions for everyone on the point while knocking the other team off the point…. That takes no skill too right?

Don’t forget to mention that in team fights where aoe fields are all over the point you have to actually find and aim for the field you want to combo off of.

LeGi.3921:

burst would be d/p?

any decent pvp player can dodge basivenom/backstab in a 1on1 and when you need to 2on1 the engi we are in a bad spot (3vs4) on the rest of the map and will probably lose the teamfight there.

on top of that d/p needs to land that backstab and the engi got a blind bomb, a 7sec blind on FT#5 (instacast), this shield stun and so much area denial that it is pretty hard to be melee with him.

i say it again, to be great with the engi and pull all that stuff off it really takes practise and skill, much more than for example a s/d thief, but when you know your kittens then your are a freaking monster.

but like i said above, as Arenanet is not going to change anything soon, i guess i just roll engi myself and hope that i get good with this class before everyone else realises how OP this class is -.-, (omg he said it!)

First of all I want to say that I agree with basically everything you have said in this thread and I salute you for putting up with that much obvious bullkitten from Nakoda. He clearly doesn’t understand matchups or counterplay and his inflammatory and pompous attitude is clearly derailing this thread.

I’ve fought probably a thousand+ duels and 1v1’s against some of the best players the NA scene has to offer as an engie and I will say that I don’t auto loose to a great thief. Hell if I have supply turret up or know they are coming I would say I am favored in the fights.

Other engineers can’t beat me (usually). Thiefs need to get that basilisk venom or some sort of great backstab to have a chance which is 50/50 ish shot at having a chance. Mesmers had better shatter combo me twice in very rapid succession or I will melt them which doesn’t happen often. Warriors will melt/die before they get to me and I will blind/push them back over and over. Guardians will melt to me if they want to stand on point and can’t actually dps me down because sword and greatsword are way too telegraphed and obvious. Rangers that play well are pretty annoying and even if I do manage to win the fight it’s a long and uphill battle against the best of them. Elementalists had better be running fresh air or some sort of super burst comp and they better land that gust → lightning flast → Firegrab/Pheonix combo or they won’t have the damage to beat me before melting. I do eat the gust against great players more than I would like but I am working on improving that. Necromancers when played well will slaughter a condition based engie. Especially since they don’t stand on point which makes bombs ineffective and they have great condi transfers and removal.

In general engie is good at what it does which is pushing far point and going for 1v1’s + decaps. That said having a spirit ranger push far or a great thief push far are two other effective options that see play in top tier teams. Of those 2 the spirit ranger has more utility than the engie in larger than 1v1 fights and more survivability in 1v2 situations. The thief can gank players off point far faster and can do work stealing bosses on niffel or getting around the map better on Khylo.

I would wager plenty of engineers will get pawned by good theifs/mesmers/eles and even the great ones will struggle to takeout rangers and auto loose to good necromancers.

I just don’t think engineers are OP at the moment because they have to work so hard just to get a favorable roll of the dice. IE not being screwed based on opposing players profession when entering into a 1v1. Plus they have to give up stun breakers and precious utility slots for kits which arn’t always super useful.

Lordrosicky.5813:

the utterly op healing turret,
And I dont moan about it cos engis own me. I think I kill most engis 1 on 1. Sure sometimes I die, but even so. That isnt the point.

I’m sorry how many healing skills do engis have that clear all conditions?
…..
……
……
Thats right nada.
necros have consume conditions. Lets nerf that too because it removes all my engis conditions !

Sort of think engis are the worst thing about the game right now, not strictly speaking from a power level stand point but also just as fun versus an opponent.

Bunker builds are and always have been out of control, now there is sort of a counter in the form of conditions but that isn’t the best case scenario either.

Eng is big on condis, just sitting on a point in bunker spec and all around being the most annoying class in the game, in my personal opinion. Not trying to be overly negative on the class, just think it has created an extremely negative play experience. Granted a lot of this is also because conquest is the only game type.

Dralor.3701:

Sort of think engis are the worst thing about the game right now, not strictly speaking from a power level stand point but also just as fun versus an opponent.

Bunker builds are and always have been out of control, now there is sort of a counter in the form of conditions but that isn’t the best case scenario either.

Eng is big on condis, just sitting on a point in bunker spec and all around being the most annoying class in the game, in my personal opinion. Not trying to be overly negative on the class, just think it has created an extremely negative play experience. Granted a lot of this is also because conquest is the only game type.

First Thieves weren’t fun to fight.
Then Mesmers weren’t fun to fight.
Then D/D bunker eles weren’t fun to fight.
Then Necros weren’t fun to fight
Now engi’s aren’t fun to fight…..

Man this game must not be fun for you at all…

What? Thats a lot of classes to list, and some of the main classes I have focused on since…forever.

But no, I don’t think spvp is much fun with bunker specs being king due to the game types available to us.

Dralor.3701:

What? Thats a lot of classes to list, and some of the main classes I have focused on since…forever.

But no, I don’t think spvp is much fun with bunker specs being king due to the game types available to us.

Well that is a problem with the game type and not the classes. When skyhammer came about you saw many more different specs coming out due to the don’t stand close to the edge necessity of that map. As long as conquest is the game mode bunkers will be here and try to survive as long as possible. And I think bunkers are in some cases (except guard omg so boring) fun to play than the one button insta win specs. If a new game type comes out then maybe their will be different specs that come into play but right now deal with it.

I understand your points, and agree on the guardian…but just trying to give some feedback. I’m sure plenty of other people feel the same way about the current state of the game.

Ultima.8673:

bunkerele <> farpointengi
ride the lightning ( 40 sec cd 900 range) <> rocket boots (20 /16 sec 1200 range)
tornado (150 sec) <> tornado/rampage (105 sec)
updraft(xD 40 sec), lightning hammer.s windblast (18 sec and easy to dodge) <> magnetic shield (30 sec, impossible to dodge), air blast (15 sec impossible to dodge), big ol bomb (27,25 sec can be covered with glue bomb)
14k hp, 2855 armor w rock barrier <> 17k hp 2735 armor
swiftness only by switching to lightningattunement,updraft, vigor by phoenix and crit <> access to perma vigor, swiftness
no selfrez <> elixir r (condicleanse, too strong teamrez and selfrez 1200 range!)
stackable mediocre power damage <> very good condipressure and strong nodedamage
no stealth <> self and teamstealth wtf ! (engi goes far and u dont see him…)

ah did i mention bunkerele changed their role to offeles, necros , engis….

You seem to compare a engi with 4 utilities (Bomb Kit, FT, Elixir R and Rocket Boots) with a ele which has no utilities other than lightning hammer equipped. So I think you (propably unintentionally) left out some strengths this ele could have compared to the engi. Also, rocket boots only have 900 default range.

You have some points (hard to dodge, short CD CC skills), don’t lessen your credibility by stating wrong/impossible or leaving out important points (mainly eles strengths).

It is simply extremely biased. Some info are just wrong – they have a self-res, fire-attuned glyph of renewal…you just have to cast it on advance – and you can’t do all of those in a single build – far too many utilities and traits needed.

Healing turret strong?
Yes
Too strong?
No
Consume conditions being one of the strongest heals ingame atm?
Yes

Smoke into stealth? Well stealth in general should be changed..

Honestly, the only thing that is be too stronk with the “Teldo build” is the self rez, which could be fixed by just giving it a 1½-3sec cast time like every other rez utility and give back the stun break on the actual elixir and maybe swap the toolbelt with the utility. Without the self res ALOT of classes can deal with the build.

Atleast a bombkit engi need quite some skill to be effective compared to the dhumb terror necros.

They are able to deal even now if only they care about what happens in the game. Seriously, you see him tossing it, you see that glowing area, just don’t make him position himself there. CC skills are there for a reason.
Also, if we want to compare it with the other ress skills…sure, it is instant, but that’s just because the effect itself isn’t instant like the others. Where they have a cast time and then ress instantly, you have no cast time and a delayed (whose time depends on your downed hp) ress later.

Vuh.1328:

Honestly, the only thing that is be too stronk with the “Teldo build” is the self rez, which could be fixed by just giving it a 1½-3sec cast time like every other rez utility and give back the stun break on the actual elixir and maybe swap the toolbelt with the utility. Without the self res ALOT of classes can deal with the build.

From my experience, the toolbelt skill acts kind of strange sometimes. Especially at the end/the last ticks it seems to res faster than it should. I often found myself downed shortly before it ends, thinking the last tick won’t nearly be enough to get me up again and then puff – insta res. Might just be my personal impression, though.

Giving it a long cast time would probably break it, given it’s “HoT” nature. I personally would either decrease the ticks (makes it harder to use, and you don’t have to stop your ambush that long to counter it) or lower the regen in general or just for the user (you can better counter it with damaging the downed engi). Another way to tone it down would be to make it rally allies instead of counting as a regular res (25% instead of 50% life when getting up).

Also, the self-ressing process benefits greatly from the full condition cleanse you get when downed. I don’t think it makes any sense that being downed removes all your conditions. Well, changing this would give condi builds a remarkable buff which they probably don’t need.

Vuh.1328:

Healing turret strong?
Yes
Too strong?
No
Consume conditions being one of the strongest heals ingame atm?
Yes

Smoke into stealth? Well stealth in general should be changed..

Honestly, the only thing that is be too stronk with the “Teldo build” is the self rez, which could be fixed by just giving it a 1½-3sec cast time like every other rez utility and give back the stun break on the actual elixir and maybe swap the toolbelt with the utility. Without the self res ALOT of classes can deal with the build.

Atleast a bombkit engi need quite some skill to be effective compared to the dhumb terror necros.

Fair enough to give it the stun breaker and then a 3 second cast on the actual res. Then yeh, I would be happy with the engi. The self res is ridiculous. Resses got nerfed but they forgot to nerf toss elixr r

Swap tool kit with utility for elixer r?

Make endurance gain a stun break again..?

Or just hypothesis engi nerfs and ignore people who play the class.. (O-eggs etc)

~.^

fifteenchars

I’m sort of curious why all the Engi self rez hate on a skill most hate so much they don’t even use anymore…but no mention of all the spirit Rangers running around self rezzing themselves after you finally manage to get them downed. Even better there’s just insta rezzes them and anyone else who may be downed.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Vuh.1328:

Healing turret strong?
Yes
Too strong?
No
Consume conditions being one of the strongest heals ingame atm?
Yes

Smoke into stealth? Well stealth in general should be changed..

Honestly, the only thing that is be too stronk with the “Teldo build” is the self rez, which could be fixed by just giving it a 1½-3sec cast time like every other rez utility and give back the stun break on the actual elixir and maybe swap the toolbelt with the utility. Without the self res ALOT of classes can deal with the build.

Atleast a bombkit engi need quite some skill to be effective compared to the dhumb terror necros.

Fair enough to give it the stun breaker and then a 3 second cast on the actual res. Then yeh, I would be happy with the engi. The self res is ridiculous. Resses got nerfed but they forgot to nerf toss elixr r

Although personally i think 3sec would be stupid as hell, considering it doesn’t instant rez.

Maybe reduce the initial tick(s) abit so it’s easier to put on some damage on teh corpse would be a smoother solution?

Velron.3729:

I’m sort of curious why all the Engi self rez hate on a skill most hate so much they don’t even use anymore…but no mention of all the spirit Rangers running around self rezzing themselves after you finally manage to get them downed. Even better there’s just insta rezzes them and anyone else who may be downed.

Any self res is lame and shouldnt exist. At the least the spirit is on a long cd, can be killed, interrupted and things. The cast time on toss elixr r is just a complete anomoly in the game right now

Godofallu.2935:

LeGi.3921:

burst would be d/p?

any decent pvp player can dodge basivenom/backstab in a 1on1 and when you need to 2on1 the engi we are in a bad spot (3vs4) on the rest of the map and will probably lose the teamfight there.

on top of that d/p needs to land that backstab and the engi got a blind bomb, a 7sec blind on FT#5 (instacast), this shield stun and so much area denial that it is pretty hard to be melee with him.

i say it again, to be great with the engi and pull all that stuff off it really takes practise and skill, much more than for example a s/d thief, but when you know your kittens then your are a freaking monster.

but like i said above, as Arenanet is not going to change anything soon, i guess i just roll engi myself and hope that i get good with this class before everyone else realises how OP this class is -.-, (omg he said it!)

First of all I want to say that I agree with basically everything you have said in this thread and I salute you for putting up with that much obvious bullkitten from Nakoda. He clearly doesn’t understand matchups or counterplay and his inflammatory and pompous attitude is clearly derailing this thread.

I’ve fought probably a thousand+ duels and 1v1’s against some of the best players the NA scene has to offer as an engie and I will say that I don’t auto loose to a great thief. Hell if I have supply turret up or know they are coming I would say I am favored in the fights.

Other engineers can’t beat me (usually). Thiefs need to get that basilisk venom or some sort of great backstab to have a chance which is 50/50 ish shot at having a chance. Mesmers had better shatter combo me twice in very rapid succession or I will melt them which doesn’t happen often. Warriors will melt/die before they get to me and I will blind/push them back over and over. Guardians will melt to me if they want to stand on point and can’t actually dps me down because sword and greatsword are way too telegraphed and obvious. Rangers that play well are pretty annoying and even if I do manage to win the fight it’s a long and uphill battle against the best of them. Elementalists had better be running fresh air or some sort of super burst comp and they better land that gust -> lightning flast -> Firegrab/Pheonix combo or they won’t have the damage to beat me before melting. I do eat the gust against great players more than I would like but I am working on improving that. Necromancers when played well will slaughter a condition based engie. Especially since they don’t stand on point which makes bombs ineffective and they have great condi transfers and removal.

In general engie is good at what it does which is pushing far point and going for 1v1’s + decaps. That said having a spirit ranger push far or a great thief push far are two other effective options that see play in top tier teams. Of those 2 the spirit ranger has more utility than the engie in larger than 1v1 fights and more survivability in 1v2 situations. The thief can gank players off point far faster and can do work stealing bosses on niffel or getting around the map better on Khylo.

I would wager plenty of engineers will get pawned by good theifs/mesmers/eles and even the great ones will struggle to takeout rangers and auto loose to good necromancers.

I just don’t think engineers are OP at the moment because they have to work so hard just to get a favorable roll of the dice. IE not being screwed based on opposing players profession when entering into a 1v1. Plus they have to give up stun breakers and precious utility slots for kits which arn’t always super useful.

This is a very excellent summary right here. I’ve been Engi since BWE2 now and this matches pretty much exactly how I feel.

(hint – our opinion matters more than you who have never even played it or done nothing but stomp hotjoin)

Lordrosicky.5813:

Velron.3729:

I’m sort of curious why all the Engi self rez hate on a skill most hate so much they don’t even use anymore…but no mention of all the spirit Rangers running around self rezzing themselves after you finally manage to get them downed. Even better there’s just insta rezzes them and anyone else who may be downed.

Any self res is lame and shouldnt exist. At the least the spirit is on a long cd, can be killed, interrupted and things. The cast time on toss elixr r is just a complete anomoly in the game right now

I actually agree with absolutely hating all self rezzes.

I’d like to see every single one removed. Just wanted to make sure we didn’t forget one while removing them.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Fair enough to give it the stun breaker and then a 3 second cast on the actual res. Then yeh, I would be happy with the engi. The self res is ridiculous. Resses got nerfed but they forgot to nerf toss elixr r

They already nerfed it long ago, by increasing its cooldown.
And putting 3s cast would make it useless. It already requires whoever must be ressed to stay inside that little area for enough time – it isn’t instant, it gives 20% downed hp per second. You can already use CC before the engineer gets downed to sweep it away from that area. You can use launches after that or poison him and dps him down.
The other ress skills have got a cast time and an instant effect. Here there is an instant cast and an effect that requires some time. And that’s why it is balanced.
Just learn to play.