Downed State.
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Check out my reasoning for why the downed state exists and some tactics people can use: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Downed-State-Tutorial
For instance on my engineer I would pop my elixer s before trying to finish you, and I would get my stomp off easily.
TL;DR
Downed stat is horrible, 1 thread for it .. 10 against ..
I hate the downed state. I think it adds nothing to the game, especially in the pvp. Seriously, milo, it seems like there is some strategy to downed states but how does that give them any validity? Exactly what do you think they add to the pvp?
The worst part of them is when you take someone down in a big fight, only to have them hit you a few times from downed state and put you down, then they rally off something and stomp you after you totally out skilled and out classed them just a second ago. Its like the downed state is just for trolling. It SUCKS.
Broken, the section titled “Why does it exist at all?” might interest you:
“To discourage full teams of burst damage. There are no dedicated healers, there is no one that can save you from a focused spike of damage. If the downed state did not exist, the fastest way to victory would be to concentrate multiple people on one target and kill them quickly, rinse and repeat. This was a very popular tactic in GW1, and was only mitigated by healers “catching” the spike, often needing split-second reactions. If you take away the healers, you need some way to “catch” spikes. Downed state accomplishes this by giving more balanced teams a chance to get a handle on the situation, interrupt finishers and rescue their teammate.”
I stopped doing any form of pvp in GW2 because of downed state. Sadly pvp has always been my favorite aspect of any mmo. But i refuse to pvp in this game untill its fixed and if that never happens ill probly be playing mop.
Broken, the section titled “Why does it exist at all?” might interest you:
“To discourage full teams of burst damage. There are no dedicated healers, there is no one that can save you from a focused spike of damage. If the downed state did not exist, the fastest way to victory would be to concentrate multiple people on one target and kill them quickly, rinse and repeat. This was a very popular tactic in GW1, and was only mitigated by healers “catching” the spike, often needing split-second reactions. If you take away the healers, you need some way to “catch” spikes. Downed state accomplishes this by giving more balanced teams a chance to get a handle on the situation, interrupt finishers and rescue their teammate.”
In that case it’s a band-aid solution to an actual serious problem introduced by the lack of healers in this game, and not at all reassuring like you think it is.
I don’t really like the downed state myself .Why on earth do i have to perform the rain dance after my opponent is down?it makes no sense.
Make the downed person take like triple damage or something when downed,or anything similar rather than having the killer perform the raindance.
It is an excellent teamplay mechanic in my opinion, but I guess not everyone plays tourneys.
It is an excellent teamplay mechanic in my opinion, but I guess not everyone plays tourneys.
how do these random idiots have the balls to be so condescending on the forum? Writing that awful guide you have been trying to throw at ppl on the forum does not make you an authority on downed state, and you are not the only tournament player on the forums
It is an excellent teamplay mechanic in my opinion, but I guess not everyone plays tourneys.
how do these random idiots have the balls to be so condescending on the forum? Writing that awful guide you have been trying to throw at ppl on the forum does not make you an authority on downed state, and you are not the only tournament player on the forums
Totally True.
I agree.
It also ruins those moments where you can defeat two or three players at once this is now almost always ruined by the downed state as you will still die or have to retreat as of course you are on low health, and so if someone pulls of some superb play its gets neutralised by the down state.
And yes it is bad enough to ultimately drop the game for another along with the fact theres nothing to fight for in gw.
@Imbs I thought it was a reasonable effort. There are many subtleties to the downed state and I wanted to collect the info in one place.
Get rid of it. It takes away almost all satisfaction of getting a kill in pvp and like said before It makes it pretty much impossible to win in a 1v2 situation.
I think the situation would improve a lot if players couldn’t rally off enemy deaths. Rallying should require excruciatingly slow self heals or aid from a teammate.
Downed state should only be the botton 1 and 4. 2 and 3 are an utter epic disaster made by ArenaNet. Its too ridicilous stupid and belongs nowhere in the game. Maybe keep it for PvE if you must, but disable it for PvP/WvW.
Broken, the section titled “Why does it exist at all?” might interest you:
“To discourage full teams of burst damage. There are no dedicated healers, there is no one that can save you from a focused spike of damage. If the downed state did not exist, the fastest way to victory would be to concentrate multiple people on one target and kill them quickly, rinse and repeat. This was a very popular tactic in GW1, and was only mitigated by healers “catching” the spike, often needing split-second reactions. If you take away the healers, you need some way to “catch” spikes. Downed state accomplishes this by giving more balanced teams a chance to get a handle on the situation, interrupt finishers and rescue their teammate.”
Oh I get it now, the trinity system was so bad cause no one likes their opponent to get healed so instead you just half die. YEAH THATS A LOT MORE FUN. So too catch dps spikes you just die a little bit and that adds a whole new layer of strategy lol yeah right. and now what? Because of this awesome downed state, people what arent gonna assist down targets? I dont get it. If anything it encourages more burst dps cause you need to kill everyone twice.
Oh I get it now, the trinity system was so bad cause no one likes their opponent to get healed so instead you just half die. YEAH THATS A LOT MORE FUN. So too catch dps spikes you just die a little bit and that adds a whole new layer of strategy lol yeah right. and now what? Because of this awesome downed state, people what arent gonna assist down targets? I dont get it. If anything it encourages more burst dps cause you need to kill everyone twice.
I dont like the downed state myself i vote for a deletion, but i gotta admit..I wont really care if the player doesnt heal the d*mn guy in like 3 seconds… give the people in downstate 300% damage taken or such.
I play tournaments. That is my perspective when I talk about downed state. If you are more interested in deathmatches and 1v1s, I can understand you’d not be thrilled at what seems like having to kill someone twice. The only thing I can offer is once you understand how to deal with it, it’s not so bad. In tpvp it’s a really fun and hectic 5-10 seconds as we try to prevent stomps on teammates. Getting a stomp through the enemy team’s defenses is also really satisfying.
I understand their reasoning for the downed state, but I disagree with their solution. In my personal humble opinion it makes pvp tedious and unfun (I don’t personally like having a nice long battle with someone, coming out victorious, only to have them not die etc).
My experience/logic:
Often 1v1’s are not 1v1 for very long in these small maps, and usually when I down my opponent before teams have shown up, he can easily down me (due to class balance being fairly good and me beating him with little hp left) before I reach him for the finisher and then he is at an advantage for basically “losing” first because his downed cooldowns are up or will be up faster than mine and so forth. I don’t understand how these types of situations are fair or fun.
I understand some people (I’m fine with it) don’t want a pure dps slugfest so maybe adding alternate weapons with more healing/protective based skills would be a better way of handling this?
I play tournaments. That is my perspective when I talk about downed state. If you are more interested in deathmatches and 1v1s, I can understand you’d not be thrilled at what seems like having to kill someone twice. The only thing I can offer is once you understand how to deal with it, it’s not so bad. In tpvp it’s a really fun and hectic 5-10 seconds as we try to prevent stomps on teammates. Getting a stomp through the enemy team’s defenses is also really satisfying.
I hear you, I deal with it, I dont like it but whatever its not like Id quit because of it. That quote you linked is just ridiculous to me, that the downed state is their answer to players assisting? I dont know what the whole hating on healing is about. If arenanet didnt want the “trinity” thats fine but make everyone be able to heal then if thats how they want to spec. To eliminate healing and then say Thats why we have downed state is just stupid imo.
This Thread must be brought up to the Dev’s and in my opinion is to make a vote system.
Whant people to keep playing? Give the people what they whant?
Make a vote system and see what the GW2 community whant.. cause if i read the forums nobody likes the Downed State (in pvp), only a few exeptions like Milo.
I stopped doing any form of pvp in GW2 because of downed state. Sadly pvp has always been my favorite aspect of any mmo. But i refuse to pvp in this game untill its fixed and if that never happens ill probly be playing mop.
Exactly my thought … Well, i won’t be playing MoP, maybe HoTS tho
This Thread must be brought up to the Dev’s and in my opinion is to make a vote system.
Whant people to keep playing? Give the people what they whant?
Make a vote system and see what the GW2 community whant.. cause if i read the forums nobody likes the Downed State (in pvp), only a few exeptions like Milo.
There is some rule in customer support that I think is applicable here, where for whatever number of complaints you get, there are 7-10 other people that are content. People that are happy with the way things are generally aren’t vocal about it. I can’t remember anyone in my teams complaining about downed state. I’d guess most people just play the game.
There is some rule in customer support that I think is applicable here, where for whatever number of complaints you get, there are 7-10 other people that are content. People that are happy with the way things are generally aren’t vocal about it. I can’t remember anyone in my teams complaining about downed state. I’d guess most people just play the game.
You and i both know that this is a false statement.!
If you browse the Spvp Forums, you will notice that alot of people getting tired of this Downed State, also losing their intresst in pvp, and even better, they just whant it gone
You know this to because i see you replying with your anoying post on their Thread’s to.
It’s a real thing, but whatever.
Yes, you’re right, browsing the forums I see many people that are crying because they don’t understand how to play with this new mechanic, and are frustrated that they can’t win their 2v1 fights. You should have another look at my post. Or that video someone posted about how a real team player works with downed state.
Edit: here it is https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Get-Rid-of-Downed-all-together-in-PvP/116768
(edited by milo.6942)
Personally i think downed state is a rather nice mechanic. It adds alot of support into team play encouraging people to support thier team.
Without it i think it would just develope a sour community people would just change
and start asking why no ones healer, which bring me again to why i like it.
It’s a nice way of letting people play how they want while still being able to support the team.
It’s a real thing, but whatever.
Yes, you’re right, browsing the forums I see many people that are crying because they don’t understand how to play with this new mechanic, and are frustrated that they can’t win their 2v1 fights. You should have another look at my post. Or that video someone posted about how a real team player works with downed state.
Ofcourse its a real thing, it aint a fairy tale,
i understand how it works, but the thing that your tiny little mind cant understand is that it adds no teamplay to it,, it adds no decent skill revolved match.
I stopped doing any form of pvp in GW2 because of downed state. Sadly pvp has always been my favorite aspect of any mmo. But i refuse to pvp in this game untill its fixed and if that never happens ill probly be playing mop.
coudnt agree with you more…. except the Mop part.. that’s lame.
Leave it in tPvP and PvE, remove it from sPVP.
I like the downed state, but rallying in PvP is garbage. It constantly creates counter-intuitive situations.
If you’re fighting one player, and there’s another one who’s down near you with very little health, you should be sure to not finish him off but instead wait until you go down, then kill him so that you can rally. This situation is exaggerated when in team fights.
A warrior has used Vengeance and is stacking bleed on you! It looks like you’re going to go down. What should you do? The last thing you should do is actually kill him. Instead, just let him down you, then use your basic downed CC skill. His Vengeance will likely run out so that you rally. Had you killed him before going down, the bleeds would likely send you into downed state, leaving you in a very dangerous situation. As the warrior, this situation is also very counter-intuitive. Should I down him? Not unless you have plenty of time to get that finisher off.
An ally and an enemy are downed and throwing rocks at each other. Don’t waste your time reviving your ally. Just stomp the enemy and your ally gets a free rez. Now imagine that there were three downed players on each team. First team to get a kill wins that fight, but only if the players are downed.
You’re low on health with loads of dots on you and about to go down. Your heal is ready. You can block while healing. Your heal also removes all conditions. You can definitely survive this. An ally is beginning a stomp on an enemy. Your best course of action is to let the dots down you, rally off of the enemy, then use your heal.
Some players might say, “Yeah, well, that’s all part of learning to play,” and I agree. It is. However, I don’t think that requiring the player to learn a way of playing so completely counter-intuitive is good design, at all. Making your game harder to learn just separates new players from those “in the know”. Yeah, we can learn to get used to it, but this is a layer of “skill” that really doesn’t add anything interesting to the game at all, and, honestly, it feels very poorly thought out.
“Be who you are and say what you feel
because those who mind don’t matter
and those who matter don’t mind.” -Dr. Seuss
because those who mind don’t matter
and those who matter don’t mind.” -Dr. Seuss
that’s an interesting post shoom, maybe they will change things to help with that
The downed state in sPVP is pretty stupid, if you fight lets say a 3:3 and you are the last one standing, you cannot kill them as they will heal way too fast. The “raindance” takes way too long. It’s no fun and the downed states of many classes are way too strong. Thiefs, Mesmers, Warriors coming to mind (I am playing a warrior btw).
It’s great fun in PvE because you can rush there and help people, but in PVP it is one of the worst decisions I have seen in this game. Especially because you get points for completung the dance as well as you need those for the monthly achievement in WvW. Meaning 5-6 people are teying to stomp instead of focussing on living things.
Well, just get rid of it in PvP please.
Downed state… unbalanced and needs fixes BUT imo something that is really GW2 and i hope they NEVER think about removing it.
Timeraider- 80 Norn Elementalist – 80 Norn Engineer
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I don’t mind that folks can be revived… they can be “battle rezzed” in other games too. But it’s a bit too easy for some classes to manage this. I also feel that once down you shouldn’t have any abilities available. You should need to wait and depend on your team fully to get you back up.
I can’t count how many 1v2 (even 3’s) I’ve “won” just to be downed by “dirt” throwing dead people. I can finish them if SR is up, but I often have to use that to win the fights anyhow – so it’s not an option and I usually just end up having to beat a hasty retreat from the dirt throwers. =p
I like the downed state, BUT
The downed person should NOT be able to deal any considerably decent damage when downed, and the downed person should NOT be able to avoid being finished within the first 10 seconds of lying on the ground.
This makes teamwork more important, and the lack of teamwork will result in downed state not being a second barrier you need to burst.
Also, rallying should ONLY occur on the person you’ve damaged the most – for example: If you did 10k damage to X, and only 2k to Y, even if Y goes down and dies, you should not rally. Only if X goes down, should you rally.
I’m tired of teamfights consisting of downed people quickly tagging everything around them, so they get a free rally quickly.
I am all for removing this cursed state. Can’t even tell you the amount of times I will kill someone and have their teammate show up, but I can’t do anything because I have to down the first guy again or else it is a 2v1 and I lose anyways.
Also in team fights if you down 3 of them, but they kill someone they rally and you have to kill them again. It makes zero possible sense.
Downed state promotes teamplay and adds strategy to the tournament environment. I would venture to guess a majority of the people that dont like it spend most of their time in 8v8 hot join. Below is a link that discusses how the “skillcap” is raised in this game by some of the small complexities. There is a small section on the downed state. Good read.
You can 1v2 with downed state, as a mesmer I pop one phantasm on the first one that goes down, the damage it does prevents him from healing himself up. No prob
Not to mention points!
I dont know whats going wrong in my Spvp team, but if my whole team is around 250-300~ points..
and the enemys top player has 155~, we still lose cause they reach 500 points faster,,
You should gain points with the Global score.
Downed state is cool and a nice addition to the gameplay. I like it. Might need some balancing here and there, but otherwise it’s a very nice component for teamplay.
Ill toss in my 2cents,
like alot of others here, i do plenty of 2v1 3v1s holding nodes and die to fools throwing rocks, I quit this game becuase of it, I’ll come back when its gone, becuase there is nothing else to do in this game, I beat 75% of all explorable paths in one weekend with friends, enjoy my 60$ for now ANet.
You have gone to far with the “team” sense, let poeple be gods for a bit and reward a touch of solo play. oh, and add Deserter debuff too.
And dont get me wrong, Im all for it in tourney play and REAL team environments, pve, wvw, tourney pvp, but hotjoin? really? not happening, if you dont allow parties to que for hot join, then get rid of downed.
You guys would have a much easier time accepting the downed mechanic if you could accept that depleting someone’s health =/= killing them.
The only thing wrong with downed state is the blatant imbalance of some profession downed skills. Other than that, its an interesting and fresh mechanic that keeps the game from wandering too close to other MMOs. I’ve made several fun and viable rez/stomp builds on different professions that focus purely on downed players.
Although I will agree that it makes 1v2’s effectively impossible against decent players.
(edited by Xahz.8406)
You guys would have a much easier time accepting the downed mechanic if you could accept that depleting someone’s health =/= killing them.
The only thing wrong with downed state is the blatant imbalance of some profession downed skills. Other than that, its an interesting and fresh mechanic that keeps the game from wandering too close to other MMOs. I’ve made several fun and viable rez/stomp builds on different professions that focus purely on downed players.
Although I will agree that it makes 1v2’s effectively impossible against decent players.
I think you are correct on all your points, everyone of them, but I think you missed the big one, you can’t 1v2… The 1v2 is a big part of these types of games and are inevitable, as the game is right now, depending on class, if you are a lone defender in your node in a 5v5 match and more than 1 assaulter appears, you have to give up your node just becuase they sent 2? no
Actually it turns out 2v1s are possible. You just have to understand how downed state works. Which might be difficult to do… if you’ve given up and quit the game.
I’d be fascinated to know what extra layer of ‘understanding’ you’re convinced downed state requires, milo. Downed state to me is just “1111111111111111111211111111111111111111111111111131111111111111111111”, followed by death or a rally.
1) Downed state needs to have bleed out.
2) Downed state needs to have a 200-400% increased incoming damage debuff.
3) There should not be large discrepancies between what classes can do while in downed state.
4) If the first 3 prerequisites aren’t met, downed state needs to kitten off.
If the enemy is downed, you haven’t outplayed them. Period. You haven’t won and you haven’t killed them. That is a kitten FACT in this game. If you got someone down but they rallied and defeated you, you got outplayed. Complaining about the existence of downed mode won’t change the fact that you lost. Suck it up and get better.
If the enemy is downed, you haven’t outplayed them. Period. You haven’t won and you haven’t killed them. That is a kitten FACT in this game. If you got someone down but they rallied and defeated you, you got outplayed. Complaining about the existence of downed mode won’t change the fact that you lost. Suck it up and get better.
What? There’s very, very little room to outplay anyone when you’re downed. The abilities are about as basic and simple as they come. Its more likely that you just got outnumbered or lost a downed fight because they have stronger downed abilities than you.
I support the mechanic but winning a downed fight has absolutely nothing to do with player skill.
The downed state itself is a pretty enjoyable part of the game for me that definitely adds depth. The idea of being able to stall or briefly avoid death in the hopes of a teammate coming to your rescue is a very cool idea and means that you can still serve as a distraction to keep enemies busy. I do think it could use some of the modifications mentioned above though, namely:
- Reduce the damage you deal. (The only threat a downed player should pose is that of being revived or hindering foes, but not killing)
- Remove rallying from kills (Downed should only revive you if your allies spend the time reviving or the enemy forgets about you)
Other than that, I think it’s fine. Once the outgoing damage is lowered, the downed health pools aren’t as concerning, so no need to ramp up the amount of incoming damage, and I think it’s great that there are distinct differences between the abilities as that keeps the game from being a homogenized bore fest of “same effect, different fluff” as long as the power level of the abilities is appropriate.
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