Guild Wars 2

Note: This is MY opinion, you may like or dislike downed, but I’m here to suggest something new.

I actually like the concept in sPvP, choosing to res your friend or finish the enemy makes the game faster, the problem is, at the moment, you NEED to finish your enemy, there is rarely a choice. A long with this, some classes (mesmer, thief, warrior) are VERY strong while downed. Mesmer can stack confusion very fast while downed, other classes can CC you so can’t even take them down.

I propose that downed stays, but is changed.
You get 3 skills now.
1 – Cheer
Adds 2 seconds of fury to nearby teammates on a 5 second cooldown.
2 – Bandage
The normal 4 skill.
3 – Bleed out
Like bandage, but hurts you for 4x as much.

Both bandage and bleed out can be interrupted.
The team concept of being downed remains, but the lopsidedness goes away.

Along with this, you start in “orange” for downed, if you die, you start with 75% of the amount of health, going up puts you in red which will automatically kill you.

I was actually thinking they need to add a “bleed-out” option the other day, when a pretty elite team we were facing was deliberately keeping us in downed state. While obviously within the rules, it’s just not fun sitting on the ground throwing rocks for that long.

Or just remove it and make everyone happy.

It’s a good dynamic at times, when you have teams that pay attention and actually protect you/rez you, but when you’re on your own, it’s just waiting to die most of the time, or stalling, neither of which are fun.

Getting up in the middle of a fight from the dead and wrecking face after a well timed rez, however, is very fun.

I think a few classes could stand to see buffs on their downed state (engi/ranger) but don’t think others need it nerfing or that the whole thing should be removed. Stopping the stomp and getting the revive in is one of the major differences between a good and bad player.

> other classes can CC you so can’t even take them down.

This is where I concluded that your opinion was silly. Excluding Mesmer and Thief—in the worst case scenario where you don’t have quickness/stealth/etc, and even assuming they use their cc ability at the last possible millisecond to buy time, you still have enough time to walk back over and finish them before their number 3 recharges. That’s by design. This is, however, much more difficult in a team fight when their team protects them from stomps, but that’s also by design, and creates a new dynamic to fights that I think is very welcome. You should bring some kind of invulnerability or whatever to help you with these stomps, its part of the dynamic of the fight (and they are useful abilities to have anyway). Yes thief and mesmer downed are annoying, maybe a little bit too annoying, but it should be that way. It should be just barely difficult enough so that solo you usually get the stomp, but if they have their team they may rally. If you brought your appropriate utility skill to facilitate stomping then it’s nearly guaranteed however.

Milo, you hit it on the head. This is a team based game, and it has been (obviously) designed around it.

milo.6942:

> other classes can CC you so can’t even take them down.

This is where I concluded that your opinion was silly. Excluding Mesmer and Thief—in the worst case scenario where you don’t have quickness/stealth/etc, and even assuming they use their cc ability at the last possible millisecond to buy time, you still have enough time to walk back over and finish them before their number 3 recharges. That’s by design. This is, however, much more difficult in a team fight when their team protects them from stomps, but that’s also by design, and creates a new dynamic to fights that I think is very welcome. You should bring some kind of invulnerability or whatever to help you with these stomps, its part of the dynamic of the fight (and they are useful abilities to have anyway). Yes thief and mesmer downed are annoying, maybe a little bit too annoying, but it should be that way. It should be just barely difficult enough so that solo you usually get the stomp, but if they have their team they may rally. If you brought your appropriate utility skill to facilitate stomping then it’s nearly guaranteed however.

Could not have said it better.

People need to be smart about their Utility skills, think Utility, not “what helps me dps,” or “what helps me CC better,” or Etc. Think Utility. Should I take that extra CC skill? or should I take that skill that keeps me from being CC’d. Simple choices like these can make or break the game.

A few things I would add about the mesmer downed state. Our number 2 is powerful but it ISN’T a CC. It’s also completely uncontrollable by the mesmer, sometime’s you will teleport over a wall etc. and be handed a get out of jail free card, other times it dumps you in the middle of a kitten storm and you die with no chance. Finally there’s the annoying situation where it teleports you to the other side of the person whose stomping you and you still die since you didn’t out range it.

The other main problem about the mesmer downed state, the phantasmal rogue, stems from the fact the mesmer has only 1 real build. This build buffs the kitten out of phantasms so I often find that my rogue can hit for about 1/4 of someones hp, on a pure glass cannon thief (100% no vit/toughness) I had it chop half his hp and down him, I then won the downed fight for obv reasons.

Also our basic attack is probably to strong in it. It is sadly the only core ability we have which applies confusion so it’s incredibly powerful for this reason and should probably be our sceptre primary attack while we get a secondary downed.

The one advantage is that due to the nature of these two attacks one or the other is really powerful since we never have both + condition and power.

So you want PvP with less decision making? There’s actually a dynamic to downed state, your suggestion will make downed state the following:
-Mash 1 if you have allies near you
-2 if someone is picking you up
-3 if respawn is coming up soon.

There’s also no reason for anyone stomping you to use quickness/stability.

Either way, not only do you lose downed health over time already, a 4x faster “bleed out” would theoretically make holding the points closer to respawn (mine/henge,etc) harder because people would respawn whenever they want to. Like aydenunited said, leaving you in downed until right at :59,9, :19 is an actual thing that takes consideration.

jmz.9162:

So you want PvP with less decision making? There’s actually a dynamic to downed state, your suggestion will make downed state the following:
-Mash 1 if you have allies near you
-2 if someone is picking you up
-3 if respawn is coming up soon.

Yeah because what we do now is super deep
-mash 1 until they come to finish you
-interrupt their stomp
-cast your 3rd spell when it is up
-revive yourself if no enemies are around

In higher level tpvp, being in the downed state is not that big of a deal as (from experience), teammates are able to rally you.

neus.8527:

Yeah because what we do now is super deep
-mash 1 until they come to finish you
-interrupt their stomp
-cast your 3rd spell when it is up
-revive yourself if no enemies are around

It’s actually your teammates that are having the heart attacks trying to interrupt stomps on you. Then it’s the enemy team that escalates their game to try to push the stomp through. The downed player has little say in the matter.

Arena.net Please remove downed mode form PvP but keep it in PvE.

Downed mode takes away so much much reward for skill. Lets say that you ju are in a 2v1 you down one but the guys downed mode and the other guy kill you instantly… If there wasn’t a downed mode good players would be rewarded better.

Downed mode takes away so much much reward for skill. Lets say that you ju are in a 2v1 you down one but the guys downed mode and the other guy kill you instantly… If there wasn’t a downed mode good players would be rewarded better.

Good players don’t die in the 1v2, they down both opponents then stomp them.

Fabrizio.8752:

Arena.net Please remove downed mode form PvP but keep it in PvE.

Downed mode takes away so much much reward for skill. Lets say that you ju are in a 2v1 you down one but the guys downed mode and the other guy kill you instantly… If there wasn’t a downed mode good players would be rewarded better.

I didn’t want to keep posting on this thread like this, but his complaint could have been copy/pasted from every other person that has ever complained about the downed state since the betas. I’d bet money every single one of them ran glass cannons that spike 1 target “and the other guy kill you instantly”. The downed state was probably initially designed to counter exactly these types of builds.

Scarlett.1549:

Milo, you hit it on the head. This is a team based game, and it has been (obviously) designed around it.

Really? Why is the only real way ti play with my friends kind of is too big of an effort to even get my friends to play it?

So like, I am a Guild Wars noob and yeah. All I hear is GW2’s endgame and what keeps you coming back in their PvP but yet it seems to be catered towards the hardcore crowd. Why us that?

So we have tournaments and non-tournaments matches. With one it requires a full time to play and the other you can just drop in and out willy nilly as a solo player. Where is the inbetween? Where do groups of buddies go to casually play and be on the same team w/out jumping through hoop after hoop to TRY and make it happen?

oh oops this is actually an off topic rant that was ..yeah so.

This proposed downed state will work REALLY well in the solo environment but does and will take away some of the greatness around it’s current setup for a true team setup.

So… use them both! Tournament Style and, the proposed, Solo Style.

:D

No please don’t implement it in solo play, the downed state as it currently stands is one of the true steps forward that GW2 has made in the mmo pvp world, to have it reduced to the crap the OP has posted would be sad.

@DeadStretch try WvW, maybe it’s less effort.

WvW is mindless skill spamming and I actually like putting more effort in. My guess is you haven’t played sPvP solo? Guess what happens when you are downed? Enemies leave you down and so do allies. Solo players are the most selfish of all. Guess what they play for? A high kdr. Solo sPvP is “Points? What points I just want to kill people. You care about capping points go join the tournaments. lolz.”

Yeah, so let’s try again, shall we?

I’m sorry what was your question or point

Guess what happens when I get downed in SPvP? I keep fighting, often managing to rally, get revived or even pull off a kill. Guess what else I do while in SPvP, I revive my allies! Many fights I’ve won because I pulled off a sucessful revive.

Just because you don’t value the mechanic doesn’t mean others of us don’t use and abuse it. It’s one of the things which seperates good, mediocre and bad players. If you really don’t want to use it then just lie there and wait for the timer to run out when you get downed.

There’s nothing wrong with the down state. It’s amazing and adds a challenging aspect to team play. Bleed Out would be awful because one of the best strategies is letting an opponent linger in the downstate to prevent them from ressing. Cheer sounds amusing but overall I think your suggestions are bad and would be extremely boring compared to the current system.

neus.8527:

Yeah because what we do now is super deep
-mash 1 until they come to finish you
-interrupt their stomp
-cast your 3rd spell when it is up
-revive yourself if no enemies are around

This person gets stomped then waits for a 19 second res every time.

Also,

-revive yourself if no enemies are around

Do you ever get downed with no enemies around? What you trip and hurt your ankle and lose all your health? Holy cow, sounds rough.

Downed state is a good mechanic but it need to be balanced.

1) Some classes have access to more skills to defend themselfs (thief can stop you stopming for 10 sec easily, mesmer can do it easily once with no chance to be prevented) Its a bit unfair that some classes have interupts, some have AOE interupts and some have nothing to do for themselfs. I feel sorry for elementalist in current state as they are simply easy target to be stomped. Also its unfair that some “interupts” can be prevented by stability while some like mesmer / thief clone and teleport can´t be negated in any way. You simply have to stomp them at least twice.

Second. Sometimes people get rallyed way out of main combat. Many times i was dueling 1v1 on point downed my enemy and then he get rally due to a kill on middle point. Im not really sure how this work. It seems that “rally” information resets only out of combat, but you can be in combat really long and the person you fought 2 mins ago is allready on different place. So why should i get rally for his dead on different point?

Im looking fowarad for downed state balance as this is an important part of the game and it affect team setups as well.

I’d agree on the downed state. The one thing I would say (having played mesmer, thief and ele) is that the downed state should be buffed up to where the mesmer is not down to where the ele is. As a mesmer you feel like your being downed is a disadvantage combat position, as an ele getting downed is basically being dead. The first one is cool and fun to use while the second you kinda just wish you would die straight away with no pratting about.

My feeling is that top tier downed state should be around where the mesmer is while the bottom end should be around where the guardian is. That and warrior should have theirkitten “get up from dead” cd removed.

Etang.2980:

Or just remove it and make everyone happy.

Yeah, I’m kind of with you there.

As cool as it is in PvE, as annoying it is in PvP, for both sides.

Not only do some classes have quite a ridiculous tool-set while downed it also pron-longs the game and is just annoying.

If it needs to stay in the game, then at least the Execute cast should be reduced by 40%.

Characters should also lose health a lot quicker unless they’re using “4”.

Spending upwards of 10 seconds in downed state is simply not fun and as someone noted above, it’s actually beneficial for the opposing team to keep you downed.

Malakree.5912:

I think a few classes could stand to see buffs on their downed state (engi/ranger) but don’t think others need it nerfing or that the whole thing should be removed. Stopping the stomp and getting the revive in is one of the major differences between a good and bad player.

Guardians usually think this. Because they can stomp with aegis without getting knocked back/knocked down/etc.

Stomping isn’t a function of your skill, it’s a function of how much access your profession has to blocking, stealthing or stability.

Im fine with the downd state, but im agreed with some change and balancing, especially Thieve, Mesmer, Warrior, they need to be nerf… (Warrior not tu much)

dcgregorya.5386:

Stomping isn’t a function of your skill, it’s a function of how much access your profession has to blocking, stealthing or stability.

If there’s a class that doesn’t have access to any skill that can aid with stomping, I’d like to know about it.

milo.6942:

dcgregorya.5386:

Stomping isn’t a function of your skill, it’s a function of how much access your profession has to blocking, stealthing or stability.

If there’s a class that doesn’t have access to any skill that can aid with stomping, I’d like to know about it.

Some are certainly better at it than others. With the amount of blocks I have on a guardian it’s a no-brainer to stomp. On a thief I really have to decide if it is worth using up one of my stealth abilities.

I’d really like to see set spawn timers in 5v5, by watching the clock and timing my finishes I can consistently give my opponents long respawns.

But it feels so meta game, almost like abusing the mechanics yet you can’t afford not to do it when it’s a 15 second difference in timer on every kill.

I either think you should bleed out twice as fast (if not more) or it should just be taken out entirely in s/tpvp. It’s more of an annoyance than anything else and it delays/slows the pace of the game. I don’t even like being in the downed state even though I have many ways to avoid getting stomped and I just may have that chance to get back up. I’d just assume respawn and not have to deal with it entirely.

Etang.2980:

Or just remove it and make everyone happy.

Not me, I like the downed state. People who whine about mesmers or thieves and “never being able to finish them” don’t seem to realize that you can just auto attack and kill them, or just finish them twice. Their escape ability doesn’t recharge fast enough to get away from you again unless you wander off and then come back later.

Jhu.3965:

Etang.2980:

Or just remove it and make everyone happy.

Not me, I like the downed state. People who whine about mesmers or thieves and “never being able to finish them” don’t seem to realize that you can just auto attack and kill them, or just finish them twice. Their escape ability doesn’t recharge fast enough to get away from you again unless you wander off and then come back later.

You wouldn’t miss it.

Thing about downed state is, it’s not about you and your 1v1, because yes if you down someone, you will almost certainly finish them as well — but at soon as you get into a group situation the downed state makes sense. Your teammate goes down and your entire team nearby switch into “interrupt mode” looking for anyone trying to finish your teammate as someone tries to revive him and their team is trying to kill the guy reviving and your team is trying to keep people off of him and everyone is popping their stabilities and blowing their elites just to try and decide through combat if this poor downed kitten will live or die.

Downed state is fine. Why else bring stability then? Just so you don’t get knocked off the point? Are you people serious? This is a team game. This unique aspect of it really brings the team together. I was upset with downed state during my first 5 minutes playing also.

Untouch.2541:

Note: This is MY opinion, you may like or dislike downed, but I’m here to suggest something new…

or, for a radical thought, you could accept you’re not playing wow anymore and get used to the mechanic which makes this game what it is? i know that sounds harsh, but the idea of a game is to adapt and be challenged by the game, not to challenge the game to adapt to you to make it easy for you to roflstomp.

as for “something new”, you haven’t got used to the “old” yet, so i don’t think you’re ready for the new.

Etang.2980:

You wouldn’t miss it.

I would, YOU wouldn’t. Very different thing.

No. What needs to be changed in downed state is you shouldn’t be allowed to stealth in it. And warriors are strong in downed state? Hardly.

Honestly, I wish that downed state is removed from both PvP and PvE completely. It sounded fun at first, but after trying it it just… I don’t know, it’s way better without it.

Oh, also my personal opinion.

Malakree.5912:

Etang.2980:

You wouldn’t miss it.

I would, YOU wouldn’t. Very different thing.

No you wouldn’t.

dcgregorya.5386:

Malakree.5912:

I think a few classes could stand to see buffs on their downed state (engi/ranger) but don’t think others need it nerfing or that the whole thing should be removed. Stopping the stomp and getting the revive in is one of the major differences between a good and bad player.

Guardians usually think this. Because they can stomp with aegis without getting knocked back/knocked down/etc.

Stomping isn’t a function of your skill, it’s a function of how much access your profession has to blocking, stealthing or stability.

This is very insightful.

I mainly play thief or ranger in spvp, and I notice two things about thief in regard to this issue. 1) I rarely die because I have so many escape tools, so my thief is not often in the downed state anyway and 2) my thief is very good at stomping because of stealth.

This gives thief a huge advantage over ranger in a critical aspect of the game (and that advantage is not balanced by weakness elsewhere). If this kind of inconsistancey regarding the downed state was balanced out a bit more- either through normalizing downed state/stomping power or by taking that advantage into account as an intregal part of class balance I think it would be an improvement.

Interestingly, three of the classes seen as most “OP” in spvp (mesmer, thief, guardian) also have the best downed/stomping power.

aydenunited.5729:

I was actually thinking they need to add a “bleed-out” option the other day, when a pretty elite team we were facing was deliberately keeping us in downed state. While obviously within the rules, it’s just not fun sitting on the ground throwing rocks for that long.

Eh, that is part of the tactic.. Choose to let him bleed-out, but take the risk of that he gets revived or when he is downed at the capture point, keeps blocking the point!

Etang.2980:

Or just remove it and make everyone happy.

Eh, what? I and certainly more people wouldn’t be happy! Your opinion isn’t the one of everyone in the world…

At topic: I don’t really like what is suggested here!

milo.6942:

dcgregorya.5386:

Stomping isn’t a function of your skill, it’s a function of how much access your profession has to blocking, stealthing or stability.

If there’s a class that doesn’t have access to any skill that can aid with stomping, I’d like to know about it.

necro. we have stability in ds and lich forms but can’t stomp in those forms. Other than stability we have nothing.

I think that you shouldn’t rally on the enemies death or that you should bleed out a little faster personally.