Downed state discussion.
Lots of classes have invulnerability/stability stomps.
I don’t know where you got your idea that skills should be offensive or defensive.
Mist form is a utility skill made to be utilized.
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Lots of classes have invulnerability/stability stomps.
I don’t know where you got your idea that skills should be offensive or defensive.
Mist form is a utility skill made to be utilized.
The difference between those skills and Mist Form is that while invulnerable they are unable to do anything due to casting or being locked out of movement and skills, the exception being Engineer’s Elixer S, which functions like Mist Form in that they have mobility and are locked out of skills but can still stomp. I’d say that should be changed as well.
EDIT: I forgot to mention Mesmer’s Distortion, however that one actually takes a degree of timing like using a short Stability or dodgerolling mid-stomp to stop the downed person from knocking you down/pulling you/dazing you/fearing you.
(edited by Zanryu.3417)
Mist form originally didn’t locked you out from your utilities, it was designed for defense but for offense too ( if you had an offensive util ). After the constant QQ that made the ele the class that it is today, mist form being nerfed to the ground. So elementalist can’t stomp safely except with armor of earth ( which if i’m not mistaken the stability of it can be corrupted or removed ) Obsidian flesh IF you have a focus and Mist form. If you can’t stomp in mist form then is better do delete this skill and give us an endure pain like skill, at least we will have our spells. And i’m pretty sure that mist form is not a problem when thieves can teleport stomp you, and stealth stomp you or mesmer portal stomp you as an example.
Downed state is just useless in my opinion , shouldn’t even exist in PvP . It’s a complete joke , why you have to be half dead to start using the most annoying skills ever made ? Good luck on stomping rangers,thieves,engis . I wouldnt even call it a downed state , it’s a troll state.
Thieves in downed state are elusive, just like when they’re up. Rangers have a strong downed state but nothing that blind/stability/invulnerability won’t fix. Engineers have two cc skills, but the timers are the same as every other profession’s downed skills, i.e. if you let the engineer get to his knockback, it’s the same amount of time as letting a warrior get to his vengeance.
Thieves in downed state are elusive,
No they’re not. The only time they’re “elusive” is when they get killed by a non channeled ranged attack the delivers the killing blow right after they go into stealth giving them time to use their teleport and stack the stealth. If you’re getting tricked by a visible thief in the down state you’re doing something wrong.
Downed state is just useless in my opinion , shouldn’t even exist in PvP . It’s a complete joke , why you have to be half dead to start using the most annoying skills ever made ? Good luck on stomping rangers,thieves,engis . I wouldnt even call it a downed state , it’s a troll state.
This says it all. Downed state was and is a horrible idea for pvp. It takes longer to actually kill someone outright in the down state than it does while they’re on there feet. Unless its a group of people attacking the downed target an enemy can rez faster than the dps. The skills that CC a target are easy to dodge, and the stealth skills are just an annoyance.
I’m sure Anet thought adding the downed state into the pvp system would be a neat way to create teamwork by presenting the choice of rezing someone or trying to stop the person stomping or some such nonsense. But when you consider how you can stomp while being stealthed/mist formed/distorted/elixir s’d/stability/simply standing behind a minion/pet it really defeats the whole point of trying to stop the stomper.
It’s just a giant nuisance that unfortunately will probably never go away.
Thieves in downed state are elusive,
No they’re not. The only time they’re “elusive” is when they get killed by a non channeled ranged attack the delivers the killing blow right after they go into stealth giving them time to use their teleport and stack the stealth. If you’re getting tricked by a visible thief in the down state you’re doing something wrong.
Right, I was actually attempting to state that the thief downed state was not too strong/frustrating, and that it fit with their playstyle.
Lots of classes have invulnerability/stability stomps.
I don’t know where you got your idea that skills should be offensive or defensive.
Mist form is a utility skill made to be utilized.The difference between those skills and Mist Form is that while invulnerable they are unable to do anything due to casting or being locked out of movement and skills, the exception being Engineer’s Elixer S, which functions like Mist Form in that they have mobility and are locked out of skills but can still stomp. I’d say that should be changed as well.
EDIT: I forgot to mention Mesmer’s Distortion, however that one actually takes a degree of timing like using a short Stability or dodgerolling mid-stomp to stop the downed person from knocking you down/pulling you/dazing you/fearing you.
A point to add onto here is that you can’t stomp while in Mist Form. You have to start it, then Mist Form. The same goes for rezzing. Can’t rez while Mist Form, but can start it then Mist Form.
I like downed state. I just think some are better than others. Perhaps if they shaved some of the Rangers superior downed state mechanics and distributed it amongs the other lacking Professions. For example: Engineer.
Unless of course the intent of the Engineer downed state is to die faster and quickly respawn. In which case I would propose making Booby Trap Do increased damage but kills the Engineer flat out.
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what?! downed state has problems?!
sorry but downed state was a good idea on paper that sucked in practice and made people quit pvp. its complete lack of balancing effort really just underlined that pvp was an after thought and anets insistance that it stay in the game despite all criticism bespeaks hubris
The only thing that is ridiculous about downed state is Ranger 3. Everything else is pretty good. If they got rid of Ranger pet rez and replaced it with a pet frenzy type buff that makes the pet hit really hard for 5 seconds or something that would be cool.
I think the more cheesy utility rezes are more of a problem than how downed state works.
Downstate needs to leave pvp/WvW
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Downed state itself is a terrible mechanic in PvP. Even good players can rarely win a 2v1 or at least kill one enemy (not only down him). There’s also the problem that in group fights every single player is rezzed from downed state if one single enemy gets killed which turns the tide in every group-fight. Another problem is that people won’t finish you near guarded points when you don’t have an effective self-rezz and there are no allys nearby that could rezz you; so it will take ages before you can respawn.
On the topic itself: I agree that stealth should be removed when you enter downed-state. It’s annoying when you don’t know if the enemy is downed or not. In this context Shadow Refuge seems to be the only problem though.
@mist-form: Since the nerf the only real use for this spell is actually finishing and rezzing downed players. Besides that I’d never pick that spell. I don’t even take it for bunkering because it locks you out of your spells and has a high CD. Using a 75s CD for finishing an enemy seems fine to me. Stability practically does the same … do you want’ to remove stability because you can easily finish people with it? Many classes have far more acces to stability than an ele can use mist-form.
(edited by Gorni.1764)
Guys suggestions like these just don’t make any sense.
If there are specific skills that you’re having trouble with, then that would be far more productive to suggest changes to than eliminating a big dynamic of the game just because you don’t like it.
Guys suggestions like these just don’t make any sense.
If there are specific skills that you’re having trouble with, then that would be far more productive to suggest changes to than eliminating a big dynamic of the game just because you don’t like it.
They make a ton of sense. It doesnt make sense for someone to still be alive after you kill them or for a whole group of people to res if one person dies. Or the fact that its quicker to res than it is to get stomped.
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A stomp every 75seconds is so very OP.
Guys suggestions like these just don’t make any sense.
If there are specific skills that you’re having trouble with, then that would be far more productive to suggest changes to than eliminating a big dynamic of the game just because you don’t like it.
^This.
The problem with downstate is that it makes it almost impossible to win a 1v2. There are times where I outplay two people, but when I down one, they can still put out damage and CC me with their #2 skill. If I try to stomp, then the other will keep dpsing me. If I’m cleaving while the other is attempting to rez, more likely than not my CC’s are on cooldown cause it takes everything when going 1v2 and they’ll rez them enough that they can dps me a while longer (or in the ranger’s case, Lick Wounds + teammate rez will guarantee a rez). If I disengage, then it’s a guaranteed rez and they’ll come and finish me off.
Downed state is an anti-feature — it adds nothing to PVP but detracts from it in numerous ways. It creates new balance problems, breaks the natural flow of combat, and just looks and feels wrong.
It is no exaggeration to say it’s the worst PVP “feature” I’ve experienced in 20+ years of PVP gaming.
i only hate down state in wvw to be honest
Maybe when downed you can only try to heal yourself and get rezzed by teammates or have the option of dying and going back to your spawn point (which would make it a strategical decision if your home point is being assaulted)
Guys suggestions like these just don’t make any sense.
If there are specific skills that you’re having trouble with, then that would be far more productive to suggest changes to than eliminating a big dynamic of the game just because you don’t like it.
you’re right, kittening like I do isn’t likely to get the devs attention and yield the desired result. A child who politely and calmly asks for things gets more than one who throws tantrums.
But I’m pretty convinced these devs are too innept and under staffed to ever give me anything enjoyable, so I use them as verbal punching bags instead. I get more pleasure mocking their poor decisions than I’m likely to ever get from playing their game.
I note, my disgruntlement is not explicitly with the pvp devs, but with whomever launched thinking pvp was at a servicible place and the refused to give that team resources they badly needed to catch up.
The only thing ive really got against the pvp devs would be that this game in absolutely no way resembles gw1, and they obviously didnt win any fights about developing pvp mechanics or traits, even seperately from pve…
you’re right, kittening like I do isn’t likely to get the devs attention and yield the desired result. A child who politely and calmly asks for things gets more than one who throws tantrums.
Not here, the more people cry and whine about things they think are OP the more Anet nerfs things that dont actually need it.
but to stay on topic, downed state still needs to go.
All this hate on downed state… personally I think it adds depth to the combat, in how you handle the various classes downed states.
The only ones I really get annoyed with (as a necromancer) are the thief and elementalist downed states, and sometimes mesmer, however the last one is mostly due to personal skill level, because, aside from cleaving the bodies, which is mitigated a bit by their repositioning, their is not too much counterplay that can be done on mistform and the shadow step.
As a whole though the downed state adds depth to the combat. Certain cheese situations can occur of course ( say 4+ warrior party all with war banner ), however for the most part, requiring players to address downed play (whether by bringing stability for stomps, tools for ressing, aoe cleave) is, in my opinion, good for gw2 pvp.
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All this hate on downed state… personally I think it adds depth to the combat, in how you handle the various classes downed states.
As I said, it introduces a host of balance issues without really adding anything to the combat.
It reduces depth because of the requirement to stop fighting in order to stomp, the need to devote at least 1 utility and/or trait slot to a stability/blind/stealth skill in order to stomp, and then there’s the ludicrous rally mechanics, which only serves to kitten people right off.
downed state is amazing. people who are complaining about it are just too lazy to find ways to deal with it.
I agree. Pro noob system called downed state should be removed from pvp completely, worse pvp feature i have seen in any pvp game.
downed state is amazing. people who are complaining about it are just too lazy to find ways to deal with it.
way to miss the point… “dealing with it” is not the problem…. for anyone.
the problem is most people hate it or recognise that its inclusion results has far more negative effects than positive.
when a “feature” is widely disliked and mechanically detracts from the gameplay more than it adds, why keep it? especially when sPVP has had plenty of high-profile features thrown at it and it’s still regarded so poorly.
anet will have to redesign a lot of class skills to get downstate deleted from this game. i am not complaining about it and i’m sure some players have the same thoughts. there’s only a small percentage of players who read the forums anyway.
you’re making it sound like “everbody” dislikes it.
I agree. Pro noob system called downed state should be removed from pvp completely, worse pvp feature i have seen in any pvp game.
Your sig is funny, guess you didn’t get the memo about immob stacking a month ago.
I agree. Pro noob system called downed state should be removed from pvp completely, worse pvp feature i have seen in any pvp game.
Your sig is funny, guess you didn’t get the memo about immob stacking a month ago.
It is also funny that to use a immo skill i gotta immo first from different source..Inst it? It wasnt about immo stacking btw and thats completely different thing.