Downed states going to be fixed?

Downed states going to be fixed?

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Posted by: Empiren.6401

Empiren.6401

Kind of bothered by this.

As a thief or ele. Now, regardless of your talent or ability to play, they can contest the point for a good bit longer with tele/mist. Also its unstoppable, nothing you can do will stop these actions from taking place.

As a warrior: Vengeance has a ungodly low proc. I hit it maybe 1 out of 10 times on average. Secondly, if you don’t hit that proc you just stand around and wait to die. Its so stupid.(Personally I believe if you down a person you should either refresh the timer or hit the proc. pvp only though).

As a mesmer: Generally this only comes to play in khylo, but you can teleport a couple floors and essentially 600 straight through several walls. At times its just silly.

Necro: Shouldn’t life drain eventually regen me to full health instead of making it tick slightly slower?
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Damage is also very odd. I mean 1-2k auto attacks? Heck, thats more than your normal AA on some classes. Down state shouldn’t be a “let me do 80% dmg now” state, it should leave you in a state where you can’t pull off that much damage but are stuggling to survive.
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In general downed states should not contest the point. That would solve a lot of ele/thief problems of extra-bunkering after downed. Rally should be trait-only for pvp. Its so ridiculous because this turns the tide of the battle AFTER people have already been downed.

(edited by Empiren.6401)

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Posted by: uberkingkong.8041

uberkingkong.8041

Just so you know, while in mist form it doesn’t count you as on the point so the enemy is getting points towards capture while ele is in mist form. This is how it is with any invulnerable skill.

I find downed state on point part of strategy, you have to hold it as long as you can, you do whatever you have to do.

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Posted by: Thesilentflute.8761

Thesilentflute.8761

Its the same with stealth this is just qq let it die plz

I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol

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Posted by: MaXi.3642

MaXi.3642

ele and thief are 2 profession with lowest hp, ofc they need just a lil bit more mobility/survival oriented downed state…

as devs said, you must look at it from a team view, not from your own selfish view… from team view, thief and ele are useless in downed state, they just can evade 1 stomp and get a bit away from that place… but engineer got pull, which can save him or even his mate, next is aoe pushback, very good for team if you last on ground long enough… guardian even better, aoe pushback imediately after downed… etc… this is team game, not 1v1, some downed states are better then other in one aspect, but not in another aspect…

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Posted by: Kultas Sunstrider.9218

Kultas Sunstrider.9218

ele and thief are 2 profession with lowest hp, ofc they need just a lil bit more mobility/survival oriented downed state…

as devs said, you must look at it from a team view, not from your own selfish view… from team view, thief and ele are useless in downed state, they just can evade 1 stomp and get a bit away from that place… but engineer got pull, which can save him or even his mate, next is aoe pushback, very good for team if you last on ground long enough… guardian even better, aoe pushback imediately after downed… etc… this is team game, not 1v1, some downed states are better then other in one aspect, but not in another aspect…

have you ever played tpvp?…

Kultas / Thief / Desolation [EU]
“Don’t criticize what you can’t understand”

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Posted by: MaXi.3642

MaXi.3642

have you ever played tpvp?…

ofc but the fact that ppl are using a counter (blind, stability, …) to some skills doesnt change what these skill do if they are not countered…

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Posted by: emikochan.8504

emikochan.8504

have you ever played tpvp?…

ofc but the fact that ppl are using a counter (blind, stability, …) to some skills doesnt change what these skill do if they are not countered…

You can immobilise on vapor form too right, if you get it before it activates?

Welcome to my world – http://emikochan13.wordpress.com

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Posted by: Lalnuir.4957

Lalnuir.4957

have you ever played tpvp?…

ofc but the fact that ppl are using a counter (blind, stability, …) to some skills doesnt change what these skill do if they are not countered…

You can immobilise on vapor form too right, if you get it before it activates?

Yes.

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Posted by: MaXi.3642

MaXi.3642

have you ever played tpvp?…

ofc but the fact that ppl are using a counter (blind, stability, …) to some skills doesnt change what these skill do if they are not countered…

You can immobilise on vapor form too right, if you get it before it activates?

Yes.

btw same as mist form and ride the lightning, just for info when you talk about immobilize immobilize is one of the biggest counters to ele at all

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Posted by: Siva Mira.3546

Siva Mira.3546

I like downed state for the most part becasue of the added dimension it brings to the game, but the amount of damage players can do from a “near death” downed state should be lowered considerably, currently I feel it is way too high.

As a Thief, I can kill people with spamming Trail of Knives in down state but I can NOT HURT anyone with spamming Vital Shot when I am still alive. Maybe I should ask Anet to swap that skill.

All is vain.

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Posted by: MaXi.3642

MaXi.3642

As a Thief, I can kill people with spamming Trail of Knives in down state but I can NOT HURT anyone with spamming Vital Shot when I am still alive. Maybe I should ask Anet to swap that skill.

this is very good point they should really look at downed skills dmg

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Posted by: Empiren.6401

Empiren.6401

Just so you know, while in mist form it doesn’t count you as on the point so the enemy is getting points towards capture while ele is in mist form. This is how it is with any invulnerable skill.

I find downed state on point part of strategy, you have to hold it as long as you can, you do whatever you have to do.

That isn’t the problem. The problem is that it takes another 10-15 seconds of downing an already downed player who can sit on the point. Its not that I can’t damage them, its that it contest the point with no way to counter it
———————————————-

If you’d play tpvp you’d realize how broken this is. After downing a bunker only to have him remain on the point regardless of any action the player could take to prevent that.
———————-

Again, downed state SHOULD NOT CONTEST THE POINT.

ele and thief are 2 profession with lowest hp, ofc they need just a lil bit more mobility/survival oriented downed state…

as devs said, you must look at it from a team view, not from your own selfish view… from team view, thief and ele are useless in downed state, they just can evade 1 stomp and get a bit away from that place… but engineer got pull, which can save him or even his mate, next is aoe pushback, very good for team if you last on ground long enough… guardian even better, aoe pushback imediately after downed… etc… this is team game, not 1v1, some downed states are better then other in one aspect, but not in another aspect…

Actually this is the team view. If you play tpvp you’d realize how utterly broken it is when an ele sits on a point after its downed, especially annoying when he can just sit there till his teamates come help after and you couldn’t fully cap the point.

Again, shouldn’t contest the point. I have no problem with mist form, its that it hinder competitive play.

(edited by Empiren.6401)

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Posted by: MaXi.3642

MaXi.3642

why are you talking about contesting the point? i dont understand what you mean… any downed player counts like player on the point… ele in vapor form doesnt count as player on the point… whats the problem?

edit: and vapor form doesnt restore HP anymore, so you can just dmg ele and kill him right after his vapor form…

(edited by MaXi.3642)

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Posted by: Raijinn.9065

Raijinn.9065

The main issue is simply that some classes have a #2 skill that may interrupt a single stomp (if no stability is used), some classes have a #2 that may interrupt an entire group from stomping and then there are classes that have a #2 that will interrupt an entire group from stomping no matter what they do.
You can’t balance on the #3, because the classes that can’t reliably interrupt multiple stomps with #2 will rarely get to use it. Engineer is perfect example, the opportunity to use #3 skill rarely even arises.
And that’s just the main glaring issue. There’s other issues like some classes doing insane damage in down states, my engineer #1 completely pales in comparison to many others

Also OP you don’t seem to know what a blink/teleport stomp is. The only way (that I know) to stomp a thief guaranteed everytime on the first try is a teleport stomp

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Posted by: uberkingkong.8041

uberkingkong.8041

Downed state is part of strategy, and if you got a downed player and still own the point and it was 1v1, if the team that has the point gets another player there its because they smart team and keeping/holding there points. Then by that time the guardian will be back and hold that point for longer.

You need to adjust your team to take out that point, don’t expect to 1v1 and quickly take out a point from somebody bunkering it, that’s when you gotta play the number games if you really want it.

As for stealth, it doesn’t contest point when your in stealth. If your trying to down a thief you gotta play them to realize what there options are in downed state, they can only move right away and like 7 seconds later they can stealth if you haven’t downed them, if you go for finisher right away and then they move and go for it again you will down them. If you didn’t get that off, you mine as well just dps them to death.

And for ele hes in mist form for like 3 seconds or so, durning that time it lets you get some points towards capping or neutralizing. Then theres nothing else he can do to prevent you from downing him. The ele has to be stupid to mist form off the point, because he will just be downed until you cap and then he will get finished. And I noticed the longer your downed the better chance for longer respawn time as well.

Now thing I really hate is playing with newbies that don’t know warrior downed state and say warrior and you are downed, you newbie tries to dps him for awhile then goes for finisher and he pops back up and kills you being downed and then kills that newbie. Warriors got a pretty good downed state, at least they come back to life and burst dps some people then officially die.

Then you got necromancer downed state, that’s one that cant be avoided unless you got some trait or boon that is immune to fear.

Guardian has a knockback.

Engineer has a finisher breaker and if your a lil slow it has a knockdown as well. Heck if its 1v1 engineer will be downed for awhile unless you got stability to avoid him dragging you.

I don’t know about ranger but I’ve seen them knock me down as well, plus I hear something about pet rezzing you, that sounds pretty cheap itself.

Every class has a decent down state its well balanced right now, each one has a knockdown or get back up or something. And if you just hate being knocked down, either get immune to knockdown utility or haste to do a speedy finisher.

I find the most fun in PvP when I try to revive someone downed against 2 or 3 other people trying to finish him, by using knockbacks. Because it makes people angry or kitten y when someone gets revived and they couldn’t down him, but it makes me feel good and the person that got up feel good as well as our team. Its all about strategy.

(edited by uberkingkong.8041)

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Posted by: Empiren.6401

Empiren.6401

Downed state is part of strategy, and if you got a downed player and still own the point and it was 1v1, if the team that has the point gets another player there its because they smart team and keeping/holding there points. Then by that time the guardian will be back and hold that point for longer.

You need to adjust your team to take out that point, don’t expect to 1v1 and quickly take out a point from somebody bunkering it, that’s when you gotta play the number games if you really want it.

As for stealth, it doesn’t contest point when your in stealth. If your trying to down a thief you gotta play them to realize what there options are in downed state, they can only move right away and like 7 seconds later they can stealth if you haven’t downed them, if you go for finisher right away and then they move and go for it again you will down them. If you didn’t get that off, you mine as well just dps them to death.

And for ele hes in mist form for like 3 seconds or so, durning that time it lets you get some points towards capping or neutralizing. Then theres nothing else he can do to prevent you from downing him. The ele has to be stupid to mist form off the point, because he will just be downed until you cap and then he will get finished. And I noticed the longer your downed the better chance for longer respawn time as well.

Now thing I really hate is playing with newbies that don’t know warrior downed state and say warrior and you are downed, you newbie tries to dps him for awhile then goes for finisher and he pops back up and kills you being downed and then kills that newbie. Warriors got a pretty good downed state, at least they come back to life and burst dps some people then officially die.

Then you got necromancer downed state, that’s one that cant be avoided unless you got some trait or boon that is immune to fear.

Guardian has a knockback.

Engineer has a finisher breaker and if your a lil slow it has a knockdown as well. Heck if its 1v1 engineer will be downed for awhile unless you got stability to avoid him dragging you.

I don’t know about ranger but I’ve seen them knock me down as well, plus I hear something about pet rezzing you, that sounds pretty cheap itself.

Every class has a decent down state its well balanced right now, each one has a knockdown or get back up or something. And if you just hate being knocked down, either get immune to knockdown utility or haste to do a speedy finisher.

Thanks for writing a paragraph and missing the point.

Downed state effects point capture and it should not. I use ele and thief as the primary example because their downed state prolongs the contested point regardless of player skill

Again, to point this out because you didn’t read what i posted:

Downed state contests the point and it should not do that

Not “this profession has an OP down state”.

No, Downed state IN GENERAL contest the point, it should not.
-Also: rally in pv kitten tupid. But thats another topic.
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Again, read before posting.

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: MaXi.3642

MaXi.3642

DOWNED STATE CONTEST THE POINT AND IT SHOULD NOT DO THAT

no it shouldnt, its a part of game, downed player isnt dead player, get over it or go play something else…

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Posted by: Kardiamond.6952

Kardiamond.6952

@Maxi

What class are you playing?

I would switch my engineer “team oriented” downed state for any of your “selfish” effective downed state.

If you ever played an engineer, you know how bad our downed state is. I recently started maining an Elem, and their downed state is just 100% better then engineer.

Rotthen (Necro) / Zhyx (Engineer) /Inglorious Beasterd (Ranger)
Server : Anvil Rock (Since Release!) [SOLO]

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Posted by: Julius.1094

Julius.1094

“Eles and thieves contest the point a little longer before the stomp”, I’m sorry, what is the point of this post? So what? Classes are different and have different mechanics and this is a really small detail, considering all the glaring class unbalances in the game this is not even relevant.

Vidallis – 50 Shades of Pink – Engi/Warrior

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Posted by: MaXi.3642

MaXi.3642

@Maxi

What class are you playing?

I would switch my engineer “team oriented” downed state for any of your “selfish” effective downed state.

If you ever played an engineer, you know how bad our downed state is. I recently started maining an Elem, and their downed state is just 100% better then engineer.

first char mesmer because i was dying too much as ele in beta (i like mage classes the most overall), actual main char ele again, because i got some skill later and mesmer felt a bit OP and got boring in that time, now ele is considered OP, im having just a bad luck obviously… but as you say you would change your downed, i would change your base HP and armor, its not fun to play with 10k hp, you need to spec into hp and toughness a lot to be viable (valk armor + water (hp/heal) traits meta ftw)

(edited by MaXi.3642)

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Posted by: SuperHaze.4210

SuperHaze.4210

no it shouldnt, its a part of game, downed player isnt dead player, get over it or go play something else…

This is what most players chose to do. It is frankly unfathomable that downed state is part of the game.

In the beginning I thought that downstate was an awesome, unique addition to pvp. Since then I realize that it makes winning a 2v1 almost impossible. As if 2v1 isn’t hard enough, if I manage to down one of my opponents, I wouldn’t be able to stomp him because my other opponent is beating down on me. I would blow all my cc just to get that one player down,but can’t stomp fast enough before the downed player gets rezzed.

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Posted by: Empiren.6401

Empiren.6401

no it shouldnt, its a part of game, downed player isnt dead player, get over it or go play something else…

This is what most players chose to do. It is frankly unfathomable that downed state is part of the game.

Its a pve mechanic. Much like borderlands or such its just a shortcut so that you don’t have to walk all the way back to kill X mob who was at 5-10% hp. But its put in pvp and has very little to do with it.

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Posted by: Firefly.5982

Firefly.5982

I just want to add to this the ranger point of view…

As a ranger you get 0 down skills, that prevent you from getting finished off. I am REALLY ticked off by this. It takes forever for the pet res skill to become active, by that time I am 99% of the time already finished off >.> Compared to all other classes, that is just a complete disadvantage.

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Posted by: SwickHobo.5096

SwickHobo.5096

the only down states that are currently an issue are Ele’s Vapor Form as nothing can guarantee a first stomp. Everything needs a counter, vapor form has none. Its the perfect pvp downed state skill. it gives you an extra what 8 seconds for a teammate to come deliever a clutch res/illusion of life? 3 second first stomp, 3 second vapor form 3 second 2nd stomp. Don’t even get me started on WvW. Imo they should change the 2 and 3 skills back to the way it was before, and make it a single target KB and THEN a 1-2 sec root. The other class with a imo broken downed state is Mesmer. His 2 is the thieves 2 AND 3 combined which makes first stomping him near impossible. (minus timing stomps which are still random at best) And his number 3 skill can poop out insane damage. Combine this with the confusion stacks and w/e phantasms may still be up to shatter with You got an OP downed state. At least thieves can be tracked by teleports such as steal/shadowstep/judges intervention ect.

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Posted by: Vicarious.3047

Vicarious.3047

This may be a bit off topic but I’ve seen a couple people in this thread now say some things like “ele has low hp” and “ele needs to be able to last longer” etcetcetc…

REALLY!? IT’S THE FREAKING ELE! The class that can bunker, support, burst, sustain, and fully heal multiple times all at the same time, giving them more ways to just annoy you after they go down is like kicking an injured dog……

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Posted by: SwickHobo.5096

SwickHobo.5096

I just want to add to this the ranger point of view…

As a ranger you get 0 down skills, that prevent you from getting finished off. I am REALLY ticked off by this. It takes forever for the pet res skill to become active, by that time I am 99% of the time already finished off >.> Compared to all other classes, that is just a complete disadvantage.

Rangers have an AoE rupt, and one of the strongest “3” skills in the (downed)game. Idk how you could complain.
In strongest to weakest in spvp is

Ele
Mesmer
Guardian
Thief
Ranger
Necro=War=Engie. All of them are terrible.

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Posted by: Vicarious.3047

Vicarious.3047

I just want to add to this the ranger point of view…

As a ranger you get 0 down skills, that prevent you from getting finished off. I am REALLY ticked off by this. It takes forever for the pet res skill to become active, by that time I am 99% of the time already finished off >.> Compared to all other classes, that is just a complete disadvantage.

But….. doesn’t the ranger have an AoE stun that not only stuns the person(s) trying to finish them off but also everyone else in the area?

If anything it’s far better then what engies and necros have, obviously a thousand times better then what warriors have, and at least almost on par with guardians.

This puts rangers in the middle of the pack when it comes to downed state, so stop complaining about something that isn’t all that bad. Play a warrior and you’ll feel better about your ranger.

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Posted by: Archaon.6245

Archaon.6245

Rangers overhealing someone dpsing them even outside water? Let’s talk about…they tank better when downed then while up….lol

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Posted by: ninja.4139

ninja.4139

That isn’t the problem. The problem is that it takes another 10-15 seconds of downing an already downed player who can sit on the point. Its not that I can’t damage them, its that it contest the point with no way to counter it
———————————————-

If you’d play tpvp you’d realize how broken this is. After downing a bunker only to have him remain on the point regardless of any action the player could take to prevent that.
———————-

Again, downed state SHOULD NOT CONTEST THE POINT.

ele and thief are 2 profession with lowest hp, ofc they need just a lil bit more mobility/survival oriented downed state…

as devs said, you must look at it from a team view, not from your own selfish view… from team view, thief and ele are useless in downed state, they just can evade 1 stomp and get a bit away from that place… but engineer got pull, which can save him or even his mate, next is aoe pushback, very good for team if you last on ground long enough… guardian even better, aoe pushback imediately after downed… etc… this is team game, not 1v1, some downed states are better then other in one aspect, but not in another aspect…

Actually this is the team view. If you play tpvp you’d realize how utterly broken it is when an ele sits on a point after its downed, especially annoying when he can just sit there till his teamates come help after and you couldn’t fully cap the point.

Again, shouldn’t contest the point. I have no problem with mist form, its that it hinder competitive play.

I’d like to point out that downed players can still be knocked back.

I’ve also played tPvP and I’ve never had any problems with players preventing captures for long periods of time. I always knock them back or snare them to keep them off the control point until they’re nuetralized and then kill them for five points, or save the control skills and knock them off the point just before downing them. Eles aren’t hard to deal with either since you can take them out pretty quickly with just auto-attacks and they don’t block capture when they go into mist form.

Either way, getting downed on the point while solo generally isn’t good strategy anyways. Best thing to do while alone is to delay the capture as long as possible and then run away, forcing them to choose between capping the point and chasing you. Only time you want to get downed on the point is to delay for a few precious seconds for your team mates to come help (and even then you’re unlikely to survive), otherwise any good team will finish you off in less than 10 seconds making up for the extra time.

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Posted by: Cirax.9231

Cirax.9231

I’d like to point out that downed players can still be knocked back.

It’s weird though that only certain cc skills can knockback a downed enemy. As an engineer, big ol bomb and I think thumper turret 2nd skill will knock back a downed enemy, but flamethrower blowback and shield #4 skill don’t.

Only launch skills, like the two skills you mentioned, can knock back downed players. Regular pushes or pulls like guardian bubble or mesmer focus #4 (temporal curtain?) won’t affect downed state.

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Posted by: Kimbald.2697

Kimbald.2697

In pvp I see it sort of simple:

once you’re downed, you’re nothing but the dying corpse of a lving being. You’re no longer an engineer, ranger, warrior or whatever.

So in pvp at least I would go beyond ‘each prof has to be different’ mantra and instead make them all the same…

Downed state can have a place in pvp, but the differences between it do not. For me at least.

Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…