Guild Wars 2

When a Dragon Hunter shows up to a team fight:

Dragon hunters really do need a shave…

DH is easier to stomp than Medi.

I successfully beat a DH on point with a warrior and burn guard sw/t, sc/f
You can counter expac elites with core game builds

Its not op, ppl just dont know counterplay yet. Exp is out for 3 days. Give it a time.

Ragnarox.9601:

Its not op, ppl just dont know counterplay yet. Exp is out for 3 days. Give it a time.

That’s true but that argument could go both ways lol, for example “the expansion has only been out 3 days, how is this guy killing me so fast already?” X3

Dragon Hunter is the frenzy bull’s charge warrior or heartseeker spam thief of 2015. People only die to it if you don’t know what the skills do and how to counter them. I say that with the full disclosure that on HoT launch day I got blown up by engaging on the node like a nubsy and tanking 7.2k + 6.5k of DH goodness to the face. The L2P problem will resolve itself in a couple of weeks.

A more topical point is to discuss whether DH’s risk-reward curve is a bit off, meaning that it is too easy to get significant value by just dumping traps on node and waiting for nabs to run up and die. I would personally prefer the traps to have more of a combo-type gameplay, where you would have to combine them to get that big damage crit, which would make the skill floor higher and the gameplay more engaging. The current iteration is too simple to play for the damage it does, I feel.

Aereniel.7356:

Dragon Hunter is the frenzy bull’s charge warrior or heartseeker spam thief of 2015. People only die to it if you don’t know what the skills do and how to counter them. I say that with the full disclosure that on HoT launch day I got blown up by engaging on the node like a nubsy and tanking 7.2k + 6.5k of DH goodness to the face. The L2P problem will resolve itself in a couple of weeks.

A more topical point is to discuss whether DH’s risk-reward curve is a bit off, meaning that it is too easy to get significant value by just dumping traps on node and waiting for nabs to run up and die. I would personally prefer the traps to have more of a combo-type gameplay, where you would have to combine them to get that big damage crit, which would make the skill floor higher and the gameplay more engaging. The current iteration is too simple to play for the damage it does, I feel.

Any guard taking 2 traps is losing a ton of sustain. They will be susceptible to conditions. Unless of course they counter a condi bomb with a bow 4 projectile finish. A burn guard should eat up a trap guard.

I’ve seen tankier specs shrug off traps and just fight on the point just fine.

Source: about 70 games this weekend on DH

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Any guard taking 2 traps is losing a ton of sustain. They will be susceptible to conditions. Unless of course they counter a condi bomb with a bow 4 projectile finish. A burn guard should eat up a trap guard.

I’ve seen tankier specs shrug off traps and just fight on the point just fine.

Source: about 70 games this weekend on DH

I’m struggling to find your point. If you’re saying that DH is not a very well-rounded spec and people should quit whining and learn to play, I agree wholeheartedly. I’m also saying that DH damage does not need a nerf, but at least Anet could make the spec interesting to play, as opposed to the bottom-tier skillfloor iteration it is currently. The value curve is off. Unless, of course, Anet is aiming DH to be the new go-to class for the handicapable, in which case everything is working as intended.

Aereniel.7356:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Any guard taking 2 traps is losing a ton of sustain. They will be susceptible to conditions. Unless of course they counter a condi bomb with a bow 4 projectile finish. A burn guard should eat up a trap guard.

I’ve seen tankier specs shrug off traps and just fight on the point just fine.

Source: about 70 games this weekend on DH

I’m struggling to find your point. If you’re saying that DH is not a very well-rounded spec and people should quit whining and learn to play, I agree wholeheartedly. I’m also saying that DH damage does not need a nerf, but at least Anet could make the spec interesting to play, as opposed to the bottom-tier skillfloor iteration it is currently. The value curve is off. Unless, of course, Anet is aiming DH to be the new go-to class for the handicapable, in which case everything is working as intended.

What kind of nerf are we talking here? It’s not like we have a 9k trap that insta kicks your balls anymore.

The one trap I’m assuming people are hating on requires you to pass through it a couple times to nuke you(or walk laterally around it so you proc it a ton). And if you really are getting hit by 3 traps at once, then that guard is really a one trick pony who won’t win many fights vs competent opponents.

Either way, at this point I don’t even care. I still play alot of bunker or burn and now revenant. So if this gets dumpstered I’ll just stick to vanilla burn or bunker.

Yea I haven’t really had any trouble taking on dragon hunters with my druid either in Condi, DPS or healing spec. They are very strong but not totally unbeatable, you just need to watch their trap placement and burst mitigate at the right times.

HINT. Stop trying to walk in and out of test of faith.

It’s not really the damage, but CC. I’m fine with them doing a lot of burst damage, but invisible wall with Elite trap and CC on every trap due to adept trait and CC on Longbow and CC on Hammer if they run this. Combination of all these mean that you’re pretty much sitting duck and take that damage you’d avoid.

Relax

No one said anything about Dragon Hunter being OP. I think people are mostly concerned with the direction of the spvp playing experience when DPS keeps getting jacked up this high.

Last night we had multiple matches where people were running teams of Dragon Hunters, Reapers, Chronomancers and then Tempests for the stun. Most team fights or even 1v1s engaged resulted in both teams exploding immediately and needing to finish/win the team fight while in downed state. This seemed mostly due to too many AoE skills that lock and hold everyone in to place, while AoE DPS is hitting.

This is the giving the game a “suicide bomber” feel rather than an “engage in combat” feel. It’s probably a good idea to turn that DPS down a bit. I mean seriously, it doesn’t even matter if the Dragon Hunter is a poor player that dies in every team fight, as long as he knows how to walk on a point and detonate himself like a nuclear bomb, his team gets to win that team fight.

This kind of overboard DPS detonation is going to bring a lot of low skill cap players in to the pvp community. I’m not saying this is necessarily a bad thing but is this the direction spvp should be going?

All I see now is a rising population of casual guardians that were talking crap about DH few weeks ago that its a weak spec. Well, we are in a (no sarcasm) good spot right now.

By the way, spear pull and binding blades will keep you on toes while keeping your distance, so don’t feel that cheeky once you know that traps are laid.
Also, if we can’t pull you, we will come to you and drop dem sweet traps on your bootay right away

Rodzynald.5897:

All I see now is a rising population of casual guardians that were talking crap about DH few weeks ago that its a weak spec. Well, we are in a (no sarcasm) good spot right now.

By the way, spear pull and binding blades will keep you on toes while keeping your distance, so don’t feel that cheeky once you know that traps are laid.
Also, if we can’t pull you, we will come to you and drop dem sweet traps on your bootay right away

There is an animation for that. The problem is with unranked only, you are seeing so much more inexperienced players who do not even know what their class is doing let alone the enemy DH.

I absolutely LOVE fighting Dragon Hunters. I watch them put down there traps, then watch them staring at me in utter confusion when I don’t immediately rambo in on point and insta-gib myself.

As others have said, after a few traps to the face I’m sure people will figure it out.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Rodzynald.5897:

All I see now is a rising population of casual guardians that were talking crap about DH few weeks ago that its a weak spec. Well, we are in a (no sarcasm) good spot right now.

By the way, spear pull and binding blades will keep you on toes while keeping your distance, so don’t feel that cheeky once you know that traps are laid.
Also, if we can’t pull you, we will come to you and drop dem sweet traps on your bootay right away

There is an animation for that. The problem is with unranked only, you are seeing so much more inexperienced players who do not even know what their class is doing let alone the enemy DH.

2 traps are completely instant cast and the other 2 taken have .5 second cast time with the basic hand down motion of every other trap in the game. Traps might be balanced if they didn’t get a nuclear bow negating their ranged problem, amazing virtues that are purely upgrades over basic and 2 different long duration barriers that are guaranteed death if you don’t have a teleport or stability ready or just one will kill all of your invulnerabilities.

Too many become “PvP PRO League” material after using Dragon Hunters for 1 day, nobody ever heard of them and yet here they are dispensing their “PvP knowledge” after they acquired God like skill after DH release. The fun part is many of them were talking gibberish about DH before HoT release..and now here they are…sad

So many people were talking kitten about DH before beta, but oh how the tables do turn.

Kuya.6495:

So many people were talking kitten about DH before beta, but oh how the tables do turn.

A bunch of buffs can do that to a class…

The damage was there before. The bugged fragments of faith used to do this kind of damage. The real difference is that now the damage is split between 3 different traps triggering simultaneously plus the might and fury buffs that proc. The only substantive addition is the spear pull that can be pretty clutch sometimes.

Nobody noticed this before because people thought DH sucked, so few DHs were around in beta 3. Now that expac launched, the benefits to DH are much more obvious.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Relax

No one said anything about Dragon Hunter being OP. I think people are mostly concerned with the direction of the spvp playing experience when DPS keeps getting jacked up this high.

Last night we had multiple matches where people were running teams of Dragon Hunters, Reapers, Chronomancers and then Tempests for the stun. Most team fights or even 1v1s engaged resulted in both teams exploding immediately and needing to finish/win the team fight while in downed state. This seemed mostly due to too many AoE skills that lock and hold everyone in to place, while AoE DPS is hitting.

This is the giving the game a “suicide bomber” feel rather than an “engage in combat” feel. It’s probably a good idea to turn that DPS down a bit. I mean seriously, it doesn’t even matter if the Dragon Hunter is a poor player that dies in every team fight, as long as he knows how to walk on a point and detonate himself like a nuclear bomb, his team gets to win that team fight.

This kind of overboard DPS detonation is going to bring a lot of low skill cap players in to the pvp community. I’m not saying this is necessarily a bad thing but is this the direction spvp should be going?

This is the greatest thing ever written on this forum. Laughed out loud.

DH and Well Reaper is disgusting, the DH traps groups of people inside does lots of damage and ensures near full duration on necro wells and with reaper spinning to win basically you either invuln or you die.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Relax

No one said anything about Dragon Hunter being OP. I think people are mostly concerned with the direction of the spvp playing experience when DPS keeps getting jacked up this high.

Last night we had multiple matches where people were running teams of Dragon Hunters, Reapers, Chronomancers and then Tempests for the stun. Most team fights or even 1v1s engaged resulted in both teams exploding immediately and needing to finish/win the team fight while in downed state. This seemed mostly due to too many AoE skills that lock and hold everyone in to place, while AoE DPS is hitting.

This is the giving the game a “suicide bomber” feel rather than an “engage in combat” feel. It’s probably a good idea to turn that DPS down a bit. I mean seriously, it doesn’t even matter if the Dragon Hunter is a poor player that dies in every team fight, as long as he knows how to walk on a point and detonate himself like a nuclear bomb, his team gets to win that team fight.

This kind of overboard DPS detonation is going to bring a lot of low skill cap players in to the pvp community. I’m not saying this is necessarily a bad thing but is this the direction spvp should be going?

Couple of weeks, a little patch here and there and we good.
But if there will be low skillcap players, then let them come. Those who know how to fight will take a good care of them until they get discouraged or learn how to play.

I think Dragon Hunter is really balanced. If you stack multiples of it in order to 100-0 enemies in team-fights, you lose a lot of rotation speed, so that in and of itself is already good enough counter-play to me. People are just so quick to scream for nerfs over things they simply don’t understand. I beat most Dragonhunter players playing Chronomancer, and people call Chronomancer OP as well. Yet after watching this past ESL cup, the two Chronomancer players were getting absolutely wrecked. People just need to chill out.

I can tell you this from my experience, played 300+ matches with DH so far, and ppl, DON’T KNOW TO DODGE TRAPS. 99% ppl tries to faceroll me (not)knowing I have traps beneath my legs. And LB 5 skill – in 100% situations ppl just DON’T dodge or even DON’T bother to dodge and got stuck in cage and die by DH nuke.

So you all ppl thinking oh look DH nuking everyone, well hell yea, if you are not smart to dodge my aoe than you are ready to be roflstomped and die , I don’t care.

Well from a thief’s perspective i cant engage against DH alone, though thats not that much different from before.
Evading the traps isnt an option if theres that trap that creates a barrier, so i rather not engage at all. Ranged battle isnt an option either since most dragonhunters got that sweet longbow with them that hurts like hell aswell. Cooldown on the most damaging trap is 20 sec at max, so there isnt much time to deal dmg to the guard at close range.

At the end theres no point in fighting them alone, so i rather dont do it.

Does that mean that they are too strong? Well, dmg seems a bit high in general and since im playing thief im pretty much kittened anyways right now, so theres that. I can only say that theres nearly no other class out there that can burst as good as a DH.

it’s less about the dps but how the traps + the traits work…

the daze needs to go, especially on unblockable traps. unblockable on longbow 3 needs to go aswell.

THe biggest issue I have with dragon hunter traps is that they can judge intervention then drop their unblockable undodgable trap on you and THEN drop the nuke traps and longbow skills. If you could at least dodge through the edge of the pull trap I think the class would be in a better place, but as it is now the DH is too binary-it either nukes a squishier class, or loses to a sustain class. It’s less about skill and more about build.

dasmurmeltier.8521:

Well from a thief’s perspective i cant engage against DH alone, though thats not that much different from before.
Evading the traps isnt an option if theres that trap that creates a barrier, so i rather not engage at all. Ranged battle isnt an option either since most dragonhunters got that sweet longbow with them that hurts like hell aswell. Cooldown on the most damaging trap is 20 sec at max, so there isnt much time to deal dmg to the guard at close range.

At the end theres no point in fighting them alone, so i rather dont do it.

Does that mean that they are too strong? Well, dmg seems a bit high in general and since im playing thief im pretty much kittened anyways right now, so theres that. I can only say that theres nearly no other class out there that can burst as good as a DH.

Highest damage trap is maw and that has a 60s(48s traited). Procession of blades hits 1.5x harder than true shot, but deals its hits rather slowly (more than enough time to respond). This trap also, when traited has a 16s? CD. Test of faith hits once for less than a procession of blades (less than true shot as well) and deals more damage if you cross it (you can run back in immediately if you want, since they nerfed it so that the barriers have a CD when damaging the same person more than once. Fragments of light and w.e that reveal trap are deal negligible damage.

Once you’ve broken/cleared the maw, you’re good to go for another 60-48s. More than enough time to end a fight if you aren’t bad. If the fight is still going on, you’re likely to get +1d.

At glance DH seems very strong. Damage combined with skill’s CDs. Very good ranged dps and utility, enemy wreckage in melee, good sustain through boons. Good melee and range at the same time…
Not sure though, mb need some time to adapt. Condi? Don’t like it much.

Moonlit.6421:

Ragnarox.9601:

Its not op, ppl just dont know counterplay yet. Exp is out for 3 days. Give it a time.

That’s true but that argument could go both ways lol, for example “the expansion has only been out 3 days, how is this guy killing me so fast already?” X3

Not if they were in beta playing their DH for Months / Weeks….just saying

Arena-net please read:

Upon further inspection as of 11/3/2015, I have decided that the Dragon Hunter is a better Ranger than a Ranger “which is funny because the Ranger is now a better Guardian than a Guardian”. The Dragon Hunter is not only a better Ranger than a Ranger but it is indeed a Super Ranger and grossly OP in general. Here is why:

• Puncture Shot – Constant crippling for good consistent soft CC, debilitation of mobility and positioning. Free target bouncing, no trait required.
• True Shot – Deals all of the damage that Rapid Fire would deal but does it in less than half the cast time and has less than half the recharge. Free piercing, no trait required.
• Deflecting Shot – Destroys incoming projectiles in ranged vs. ranged, blinds your targets and picks up DPS along the way. It is also a ground targeting skill which allows you significant advantages over normal targeting skills concerning hitting stealth enemies and actually landing multiple target piercing in team fights. Free piercing, no trait required. Currently bugged and unblockable.
• Shield Of Courage – Another method of stopping projectiles in ranged vs. ranged. This is amazingly effective when cycled correctly with Deflecting Shot and Heavy Light.
• Heavy Light – A trait that causes knockback every 10s and grants 6s of stability while using Puncture Shot, True Shot and Deflecting Shot. This trait is particularly exploitable with Deflecting Shot which can ground target across a team fight skirmish and knockback every target it hits. This is by far much more useful than the Ranger’s Point Blank Shot and it has a shorter cool-down than Point Blank Shot.
• A single trap from a Dragon Hunter is more effective than a Ranger laying 3 traps and landing Entangle. Though this isn’t necessarily because Dragon Hunter traps are OP it is because Ranger traps are very underpowered.

I see a lot of people complaining about Dragon Hunter traps. It would be a good idea to disclaim these complaints about Dragon Hunter traps right now. It isn’t the Dragon Hunter trap DPS or the trap heals that are the problem as they are actually easy to work around and you can punish a Dragon Hunter for trying to lean on these skills. Most of the reasons why people are complaining about traps is because they have added a new dynamic to work around that players are not yet used to engaging.

The real problem with Dragon Hunter is it’s overboard strengths with the longbow. It causes a domino effect of poor positioning when engaging the Dragon Hunter, no matter what spec you are running against it:

• Dragon Hunter’s strengths with the longbow make it the superior ranged character in the game. You cannot kill the Dragon Hunter in ranged vs ranged unless you can avoid ALL of it’s pulls and deny it of it’s trap heal trigger, which can be a lot harder to do than it sounds because you must stay ranged against the Dragon Hunter, leaving yourself in a situation where the Dragon Hunter will out DPS you. Some classes do not have a chance at all of ranging the Dragon Hunter to avoid his trap heal triggers, due to far inferior ranged attacks so they must try to close in on the Dragon Hunter for close range combat.
• Entering close range combat with the Dragon Hunter can quickly become very punishing if not engaged correctly. This is mostly but not entirely due to the Dragon Hunter’s good trap heals, trap dazes and of course the bursts that come off the traps stacked with the greatsword burst. To be able to deal with the Dragon Hunter in close range, a player must sometimes kite out of the traps and place himself mid range against the Dragon Hunter or often attempt to disengage entirely in to a long range situation which leads right back in to the first point ->
• Dragon Hunter longbow will kill you if you are trying to dance mid range and will usually kill you if you try to disengage entirely, due to True Shot’s ability to maintain targeting against stealth opponents and Deflecting Shot’s unblockable ground targeting that still will easily hit stealth opponents.

Point being: The longbow is so strong on a Dragon Hunter that it forces players to enter close range combat with the Dragon Hunter, which is exactly where he wants them and it makes it virtually impossible to peel away from the Dragon Hunter and survive. I personally view the current close range capabilities of the Dragon Hunter’s trap bursts as balanced against Reapers/Scrappers in terms of on point presence but it’s ability to also be the superior ranged character in the game is where it becomes OP.
No class or archetype should ever be rated (A) in both melee and ranged. This is exactly what the problem is with Dragon Hunters.

Suggestions:

• True Shot needs an increased cool-down or a slight nerf in DPS, maybe both.
• Deflecting Shot shouldn’t pick up DPS on projectile kill or be unblockable
• Heavy Light knockback should only effect one target at a time with it’s proc, not five.
• For the love of god do something with the Ranger class before it becomes obsolete.

Trevor Boyer i understand you might not have as many matches with DH as me, or some other people (or you may even have more, no idea, i speak from experience, i have around 50 matches over last 3 days) not counting the ones i tried before.
I validate some of your points, and i agree DH is strong, but only in certain situations. The hunter is not weak like people say or think, their traps are underpowered compared to the DH ones, but no hunter will use that since they are stronger in another build.
There is really no point in nerfing the DH here’s why:

Mesmer, Necro, Ranger and Ele in a strange build

Their summons/pets will and do trigger the traps, which makes them hard to kill or engage, most of the time you won’t kill them that easily if they know how to play their class, especialy necros with their Reaper spec, i die easily to them as a DH.

Examples:
MEsmer: Can’t get to him, i can only use my bow skills, which is in all honesty only half of my dps when i use traps, it does good dps but mesmer usualy drops me before i drop him, his ilusions always set off my traps, i try to not engage them at all.

Ele: D/D Ele usualy runs away to get help before i kill them and survives my traps, unless in a strange build with staff, then they are easy kill IF they walk into your traps

Ranger: Most rangers go in head on, thats why they die, i had a guy who killed me every time i engaged him, we now due que for pvp lol.. hes too strong, he knows how to play against DH, not to come into range, their bow skills are better and they do more dmg with their pets, no way to sustain all of this, if you run your usualy dead.

Necro: This one is kinda 50/50, if they are not reaper build from what i noticed, i can kill them more or less easily unless their buff me full of condis, but a reaper, he procs all my traps if i manage to bait him, he survives them and kills me. If they know how to play properly.

The killable ones:

Warrior, Thief and Engi

Warrior, unless hes running full meelee you will always kill him, you can kite him into your traps, pretty easy.

Thief: If you see him come, hes dead, if you don’t your usualy dead.. But i usualy see them come, definitly the easiest class to kill for a DH.

Engineer: 50/50, if hes in his Elite, hes hard to get rid of, he can survive traps, but you can usualy kill him if he makes a mistake.

After these few days of PVP i can say im getting increasingly frustrated at how easily someone can proc your traps with DH, i would welcome a nerf to traps, under a condition that they can’t be proced with pets/summons, that would mean i can engage other classes normaly, not run/hide or die to them just because HALF of my dps died to a mesmer ilusion, a ranger pet, or a necro summon…..

ALSO to point out, ANYONE can roll out of traps, the problem is, DH seems op when you die inside the ELITE trap, which actualy holds you long enough for the other traps to do dmg..

Usualy people trigger my traps and roll out, they take maybe trap 30% dmg..

Lengthy explanation for your lengthy logic.

extra

Forgot to mention the Rev, DH dies to it, don’t engage it at all…………………

Alrighty then Trevor, lets bite.

Does the DH LB have more DPS than a ranger LB?

Definitely.

Here’s the issue, though. It does more damage, but is less flexible. True shot only works after you’ve baited all of your target’s dodges, blocks, reflects, blinds. The same could be said about rapid fire, but you’re capable of moving with rapid fire and its only possible to dodge once you’ve already taken a few hits. Its possible for a DH to land 0 shots with this true shot while ranger can consistently land a partial amount of his rapid fires.

LB3 for DH is very tricky to get off. As is the problem with actively defending in this game, a lot of skills have little to no telegraph. Making it so that you can consistently destroy a projectile requires for you to be at range. At range, the enemy has no excuse for getting hit by it. A DH would not waste a CC to land that skill. Destroying a projectile at close range without a reasonable tell is incredibly difficult and almost feels like RNG (it isn’t) at times.

We can agree that DH LB4 is only good when dropped at his own feet, unless it into a team fight but even then, that’s DH’s only source of vigor, so I doubt he’d waste it (I wouldn’t).

Hunters ward and barrage suffer from the same issues, but hunters ward (when completed) is a lot more powerful.

Personally, I’d trade heavy light for point blank shot any time of the day. Build heavy light right into LB3 for DH and give rangers heavy light proc on all range attacks. Trust me, you’ll want to redo the trade immediately.

If it was LB vs LB, ranger’s LB wins every time thanks to sheer flexibility. What tips it into the guardian’s favour is what the guardian is known for, which is his defenses. Naturally, in a fight, you can’t have one without the other, which is why DH has a much higher win rate VS ranger, but you can’t nerf the LB for DH without breaking it entirely. If guardian lacked anything when it came to building offensively, its mobility. Now that guard doesn’t have to worry about mobility, its almost as if they don’t have any weaknesses.

Honestly speaking though, I believe giving LB to guardian was a bad move, but its here and its happening so we all just have to adapt.

If we absolutely HAD to discuss a nerf for DH, I’d recommend adding a secondary function to true shot. Have it start at about 60% of its current damage, then give it a ramp up effect. For every properly executed true shot, the damage for every true shot after that increases by a set 3-5% (without decay). If they miss, that bonus is decreased by 1-2%. If they keep missing, they could go less than the base. With this, if they just spam it to burn dodges, they’ll do a lot less damage when they finally land it. Make test of faith’s wall undodgeable and unblockable, then reduce the damage it deals by about 10-15%. This way, if the guard traps you in the circle, you can either escape his true shot (which would have its velocity increased by 100%) and take the trap damage and then have a reduced risk of being hit by the true shot, or you could have faith (geddit, cuz test of faith) in your ability to dodge in this small circle and render his attacks useless, thus forcing him to swap to a more reliable melee weapon.

People simply need to stop thinking about damage and numbers. Let’s think of more mechanics, how to make the game more complex and rewarding for those who get good at it and less rewarding for people who want to face roll.

@Trevor:

Puncture shot – only gains cripple when hitting multiple targets. So in 1v1 its just an auto attack and a slow one at that.

True Shot – Does deal a lot of damage, but it has a cast time and a root on it. In reality be happy the damage is one big attack rather than the ranger’s Rapid Fire, because a Guardian with rapid fire would be even more dangerous.

Deflecting Shot – I personally find situational and although I agree that the ground targeting does help with making some clutch plays, overall I wish it was just a quickfire/untargeted ability.

Shield Of Courage – Amazing.

Heavy Light – Uncontrollable knockback every 10s with 6s of stability on it for no reason. In comparison with Point Blank Shot, I would say they are fairly even … yes Heavy Light can hit multiple enemies and gives stability, but it has a max range of 300. Compared to PBS which can be used on demand from 1,200 range. Not to mention you are comparing a Grand Master trait to a baseline longbow ability.

Traps – Completely agree that DH has better traps because ranger’s traps suck.

It’s important to point out that my statements are from the perspective of someone who has primarily played Ranger as a main and Guardian as the main alt since year one. I have slightly over 6,000 matches “mostly ranked” and most of those matches played as Ranger or Guardian. Our guild also does a lot of combat testing after patches concerning 1v1s, 2v2s, ect.. to see which specs counter what and what kind of chemistry that they have on point together. Most people who somewhat defend Dragon Hunter are not understanding this class in terms of what it is capable of, if you play it like a Ranger and not a Guardian.

Let me take a different approach in explaining Dragon Hunter engagements. First it’s important to point out what build I’m using:

• Valor – Smiter’s Boon – Strength In Numbers – Monk’s Focus
• Virtues – Unscatched Contender – Absolute Resolution – Indomitable Courage
• Dragon Hunter – Piercing Light – Hunter’s Determination – Heavy Light
• Greatsword – Air/Blood, Longbow Energy/Leeching
• Marauder/Pack
• Purification, Test Of Faith, Smite Condition, Contemplation of Purity, Dragon’s Maw

Here is what happens in all of the 1v1s we’ve been testing and unranked matches for that matter:

• DH vs. DH – Balanced match of course and fun! Boy oh boy is it actually fun.
• DH vs. Warrior – Warrior has absolutely no chance in hell of defeating the DH when it should be the class that has the greatest chance of surviving melee vs. Dragon Hunter with it’s double stabilities and endure pains. Warrior/Berserker is simply very underpowered as of now.
• DH vs. Revenant – Somewhat balanced vs. Power/Shiro but the DH usually wins.
• DH vs. Thief – A Dragon Hunter can 1v2 Thieves with a 50% win rate. In a 1v1 it is an easy 100% win rate and I mean it is a gross class counter situation.
• DH vs. Ranger – Dragon Hunter always wins if you correctly cycle Deflecting Shot with Heavy Light and Shield Of Courage timers. It doesn’t even matter what build the Ranger is running, it is impudent and useless against DH. If you don’t understand what I mean by this, you have yet to discover the true bullkitten behind DH.
• DH vs. Engineer – All Engineer builds fail vs. the DH at range. Again, the issue is the strong defense behind cycling projectile killing skills. Scrapper however… is one of the only specs that can get up in the DH’s face and bully it around. At this point it would seem that a Scrapper is the Dragon Hunter’s counter.
• DH vs. Mesmer – The DH should always win. The traps easily mitigate Mesmer clone activity and ensure triggering the trap heal. The Mesmer cannot easily dance around the DH mid range with so many pulls and soft CCs. True Shot and Deflecting Shot are also bully against anything that relies on stealth because they surpass stealth activity.
• DH vs. Elementalist – The DH wins if the Ele doesn’t peel and leave. Eles have relied on superior statistics for out-bullying on point for so long that when a new archetype has arrived that can out-bully the Ele on point, it shows the truth to the Ele class that it has few skills that truly allow out-playing something that is statistically superior in terms of DPS and sustain factor.
• DH vs. Necromancer – Reaper is good and good Reapers can keep up in 1v1 engagement. One of the biggest reasons why is that minions can be wielded to detonate traps early so that the Necromancer can avoid DPS from the traps. The Reaper’s bursts are also high and all it takes is one well landed burst to down the DH. This match usually turns in to “who lands the first successful nuclear burst”.

The DH faces a game meta where only two classes can match him statistically and technically with a distant third class that can “almost” keep up with him and then all of the other classes that completely lack the mechanics to deal with the DH.

~ I love DH play. It’s all I’ve played since HoT release but it really needs patching.
~ At any rate, that’s my feedback on DH. Have fun with it!

Trevor Boyer.6524:

• DH vs. Elementalist – The DH wins if the Ele doesn’t peel and leave. Eles have relied on superior statistics for out-bullying on point for so long that when a new archetype has arrived that can out-bully the Ele on point, it shows the truth to the Ele class that it has few skills that truly allow out-playing something that is statistically superior in terms of DPS and sustain factor.

The one thing that has been really awesome since HoT launched is that I rarely see d/d eles and when I do they are usually dying.

Wing.5487:

MEsmer: Can’t get to him, i can only use my bow skills, which is in all honesty only half of my dps when i use traps, it does good dps but mesmer usualy drops me before i drop him, his ilusions always set off my traps, i try to not engage them at all.

I have different experience (not pvping much lately though).
Probably you are doing something wrong . Decent DH beats mesmer(crono) of same skill (on a point in conquest mode) most time unless moa’ed.
Preset traps + fresh traps CDs + rune of the trapper + LoSing behind some obstacle + longbow (better mid/far range weapon then mesmer’s gs) + use mostly Purification only trigger big heal by mesmer’s illusions (if mesmer keeps range), etc.

I returned to my guardian just for DH. Barely played 2 rounds in HJ with it just to get a feel of it. Then I hopped into unranked. It was ridiculously easy to win with it, but hey, it must be my opponents (although it was a high mmr unranked match) who need to l2p right?

I didn’t even need to be a guardian expert to own with it. Please don’t nerf DH. I love low skill high reward classes. Need to farm more people ‘who needs to l2p’ with my DH for my sadistic enjoyment.

ReaperJr.5967:

I returned to my guardian just for DH. Barely played 2 rounds in HJ with it just to get a feel of it. Then I hopped into unranked. It was ridiculously easy to win with it, but hey, it must be my opponents (although it was a high mmr unranked match) who need to l2p right?

I didn’t even need to be a guardian expert to own with it. Please don’t nerf DH. I love low skill high reward classes. Need to farm more people ‘who needs to l2p’ with my DH for my sadistic enjoyment.

Lol you said you went into unranked and said it was ridiculously easy to win. In unranked? Lol dude you do know that unranked is wear most noobs and casual players at right? Try bringing your dh into a fear 1v1 dueling server, then come back and talk.

Coolguy.8702:

ReaperJr.5967:

I returned to my guardian just for DH. Barely played 2 rounds in HJ with it just to get a feel of it. Then I hopped into unranked. It was ridiculously easy to win with it, but hey, it must be my opponents (although it was a high mmr unranked match) who need to l2p right?

I didn’t even need to be a guardian expert to own with it. Please don’t nerf DH. I love low skill high reward classes. Need to farm more people ‘who needs to l2p’ with my DH for my sadistic enjoyment.

Lol you said you went into unranked and said it was ridiculously easy to win. In unranked? Lol dude you do know that unranked is wear most noobs and casual players at right? Try bringing your dh into a fear 1v1 dueling server, then come back and talk.

… you do know unranked has mmr too right? But sure, I welcome a duel anytime. Ill add you up for duels when im on.

ReaperJr.5967:

Coolguy.8702:

ReaperJr.5967:

I returned to my guardian just for DH. Barely played 2 rounds in HJ with it just to get a feel of it. Then I hopped into unranked. It was ridiculously easy to win with it, but hey, it must be my opponents (although it was a high mmr unranked match) who need to l2p right?

I didn’t even need to be a guardian expert to own with it. Please don’t nerf DH. I love low skill high reward classes. Need to farm more people ‘who needs to l2p’ with my DH for my sadistic enjoyment.

Lol you said you went into unranked and said it was ridiculously easy to win. In unranked? Lol dude you do know that unranked is wear most noobs and casual players at right? Try bringing your dh into a fear 1v1 dueling server, then come back and talk.

… you do know unranked has mmr too right? But sure, I welcome a duel anytime. Ill add you up for duels when im on.

It is also the only playable mode for almost two weeks now.

ReaperJr.5967:

Coolguy.8702:

ReaperJr.5967:

I returned to my guardian just for DH. Barely played 2 rounds in HJ with it just to get a feel of it. Then I hopped into unranked. It was ridiculously easy to win with it, but hey, it must be my opponents (although it was a high mmr unranked match) who need to l2p right?

I didn’t even need to be a guardian expert to own with it. Please don’t nerf DH. I love low skill high reward classes. Need to farm more people ‘who needs to l2p’ with my DH for my sadistic enjoyment.

Lol you said you went into unranked and said it was ridiculously easy to win. In unranked? Lol dude you do know that unranked is wear most noobs and casual players at right? Try bringing your dh into a fear 1v1 dueling server, then come back and talk.

… you do know unranked has mmr too right? But sure, I welcome a duel anytime. Ill add you up for duels when im on.

Yeah it is but you still cant say its ridiculously easy to win as a dh in unranked because of how inconsistent it is.
And yeah we should def duel, do u play in eu or na? Ill get on my scrapper

Stop cry in forums about DH, because you’ll see more pugs stacking this class in games and they’ll make you rage more.

It’s a snow ball effect.

Coolguy.8702:

ReaperJr.5967:

Coolguy.8702:

ReaperJr.5967:

I returned to my guardian just for DH. Barely played 2 rounds in HJ with it just to get a feel of it. Then I hopped into unranked. It was ridiculously easy to win with it, but hey, it must be my opponents (although it was a high mmr unranked match) who need to l2p right?

I didn’t even need to be a guardian expert to own with it. Please don’t nerf DH. I love low skill high reward classes. Need to farm more people ‘who needs to l2p’ with my DH for my sadistic enjoyment.

Lol you said you went into unranked and said it was ridiculously easy to win. In unranked? Lol dude you do know that unranked is wear most noobs and casual players at right? Try bringing your dh into a fear 1v1 dueling server, then come back and talk.

… you do know unranked has mmr too right? But sure, I welcome a duel anytime. Ill add you up for duels when im on.

Yeah it is but you still cant say its ridiculously easy to win as a dh in unranked because of how inconsistent it is.
And yeah we should def duel, do u play in eu or na? Ill get on my scrapper

Why not? I was pointing out how DH was so rewarding while being easy to play. It’s not OP per se, just disproportionate. I play on NA, but you do realise celestial scrapper is a direct counter to DH?

Trevor Boyer.6524:

ReaperJr.5967:

Coolguy.8702:

ReaperJr.5967:

I returned to my guardian just for DH. Barely played 2 rounds in HJ with it just to get a feel of it. Then I hopped into unranked. It was ridiculously easy to win with it, but hey, it must be my opponents (although it was a high mmr unranked match) who need to l2p right?

I didn’t even need to be a guardian expert to own with it. Please don’t nerf DH. I love low skill high reward classes. Need to farm more people ‘who needs to l2p’ with my DH for my sadistic enjoyment.

Lol you said you went into unranked and said it was ridiculously easy to win. In unranked? Lol dude you do know that unranked is wear most noobs and casual players at right? Try bringing your dh into a fear 1v1 dueling server, then come back and talk.

… you do know unranked has mmr too right? But sure, I welcome a duel anytime. Ill add you up for duels when im on.

It is also the only playable mode for almost two weeks now.

And also probably worth mentioning that GW2 combat is designed around 5vs5 and the only official competitive side of the game is conquest. Actually probably the first time I have seen someone try and claim balance based on a “fear 1vs1 duelling server”.

Yasha.5963:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

ReaperJr.5967:

Coolguy.8702:

ReaperJr.5967:

I returned to my guardian just for DH. Barely played 2 rounds in HJ with it just to get a feel of it. Then I hopped into unranked. It was ridiculously easy to win with it, but hey, it must be my opponents (although it was a high mmr unranked match) who need to l2p right?

I didn’t even need to be a guardian expert to own with it. Please don’t nerf DH. I love low skill high reward classes. Need to farm more people ‘who needs to l2p’ with my DH for my sadistic enjoyment.

Lol you said you went into unranked and said it was ridiculously easy to win. In unranked? Lol dude you do know that unranked is wear most noobs and casual players at right? Try bringing your dh into a fear 1v1 dueling server, then come back and talk.

… you do know unranked has mmr too right? But sure, I welcome a duel anytime. Ill add you up for duels when im on.

It is also the only playable mode for almost two weeks now.

And also probably worth mentioning that GW2 combat is designed around 5vs5 and the only official competitive side of the game is conquest. Actually probably the first time I have seen someone try and claim balance based on a “fear 1vs1 duelling server”.

I would also like to point out coolguy has no relation to the guild FEAR whatsoever. Just before anyone misunderstands.