Guild Wars 2

2k damage on Trueshot is a joke…vs classes running viper or other non toughness gear.

Dear Anet, how is the dragonhunter supposed to survive in this spam fest and CC heavy environment. The dragonhunter has absolutely the worst survivability right now with close to no pressure, nerfed burst and pretty much 0 party support.

The only useful ability, F3, is on such a hefty cooldown that it can very well make no difference in a team fight dragging more than 10 seconds.

Dragonhunter lacks:

- Pressure : once you get off that lovely #2 + trap combo burst which will most likely be evaded you are left with bow attacks which tickle and no CC. Not to mention scrappers and eles are bathing in Projectile defense right now. I want to pull my hair whenever i see a scrapper and an ele on the other team…
- CC: F1 pull fails more often than you know, not to mention the actual pull is nicely countered by stability now…which most classes have. I guess Anet forgot this is not 2014 anymore
- Survivability: DH make lovely focus targets. It is so easy to make a DH go defensive and pretty much turn into a HP spunge while they are frantically burning their cooldowns followed by going down soon after. DH survivability is based on outdated mechanics. such as shelter, Renewed focus, and Medi heals…other classes have much much stronger survival tools.

Everyone pretty much agrees the DH nerfs were unwarranted and left the class in a sad state. Nerfing our main burst option is unacceptable when the DH lacks so much. The buff to #3 and #4 are ok on paper but NOT on actual gameplay.

Please Anet, the DH is completely shut down the moment one faces opponents of average skill lvl and above

I disagree, the skill cap on the class has def being increased. There is some great DH out there, especially the trappers you can’t (as a power warrior) focus them… because they always stealth away. As a power warrior, i rathe duel a rev/ engi/ thief/ ranger/ ele than a DH.

Fivedawgs.4267:

I disagree, the skill cap on the class has def being increased. There is some great DH out there, especially the trappers you can’t (as a power warrior) focus them… because they always stealth away. As a power warrior, i rathe duel a rev/ engi/ thief/ ranger/ ele than a DH.

This so much. Just because ur class isn’t easy to play anymore and actually requires you to think doesn’t mean it’s bad. Learn to adapt.

Fivedawgs.4267:

I disagree, the skill cap on the class has def being increased. There is some great DH out there, especially the trappers you can’t (as a power warrior) focus them… because they always stealth away. As a power warrior, i rathe duel a rev/ engi/ thief/ ranger/ ele than a DH.

Needed Eightdawgs the other day.

I disagree that the Dh has “zero party support” due to the fact that Dh can apply Aegis, retallition and protection to allies. Dh is essentially a bunker class because your teammates can stick close to you for protection (Dh traps) and you could apply helpful boons to your teammates. Dh also has some sustain, although it can’t outsustain an ele or a well played scrapper.

Give us Dragonhunter users some mobility so we can rotate effectively, or give us more CC and lower cooldowns on our virtues/healing abilities. Buffing true shot to do more damage could work as well along with damage buffs on our other Longbow skills.

phokus.8934:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I disagree, the skill cap on the class has def being increased. There is some great DH out there, especially the trappers you can’t (as a power warrior) focus them… because they always stealth away. As a power warrior, i rathe duel a rev/ engi/ thief/ ranger/ ele than a DH.

Needed Eightdawgs the other day.

lol .. btw why dont you tell them how great DH are, or maybe share some tips with them. It looks like they are struggling. And i am working on a “DH counter” build.

Shovel Face.4512:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I disagree, the skill cap on the class has def being increased. There is some great DH out there, especially the trappers you can’t (as a power warrior) focus them… because they always stealth away. As a power warrior, i rathe duel a rev/ engi/ thief/ ranger/ ele than a DH.

This so much. Just because ur class isn’t easy to play anymore and actually requires you to think doesn’t mean it’s bad. Learn to adapt.

just because people can make DH work because they’re significantly better players doesn’t make DH not garbage.

Shovel Face.4512:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I disagree, the skill cap on the class has def being increased. There is some great DH out there, especially the trappers you can’t (as a power warrior) focus them… because they always stealth away. As a power warrior, i rathe duel a rev/ engi/ thief/ ranger/ ele than a DH.

This so much. Just because ur class isn’t easy to play anymore and actually requires you to think doesn’t mean it’s bad. Learn to adapt.

How exactly have the skill cap changed when the only changes that happened were damage NERFS.

No average player will ever get hit or stand in Long bow #4 and longbow #3 does insignificant damage. No class mechanics changed at all.

How about you show us how effective DH can be in pro league, or give us hints/a new build to back up your claim.

Right now i can tell you whenever i see an ele and scrapper in the other team i immediately switch into something else, because the DH is countered that hard by both those classes which are both META right now

At best the DH has a slight advantage over thief right now, and that is no longer the case even but is hard countered by the current meta which performing mediocre in every aspect of the game:

No CC (has been nerfed to hell)
No Damage (nerfed)
No movement speed (the ONLY class w/o a movement speed debuff)
Cannot hold points
Cannot decap

Not sure why people say Ele counters DH when it takes the Ele 3 days to win.

Our worse matchups are Ranger & Engi. The worse team comp we can face are Engi, Ele, Rev, War, Ranger. We have to pray one of them can get downed before they out sustain us DH. We would have to run with a Nec/Mes/Ele to counter comp them as a DH player.

We’re not in a good place but things definitely could be worse like Warriors last patch.

Ok I would like a word here. First of all I’ve mained guard since the release of the game so I get the basics of the class and I have reached far in ranked season 1 and 2 with guard alone (past Diamond t4) while only playing 3 weeks of the total ranked time.

The nerfs have been severe as to say the less. I agree with whoever said that the class mechanichs were outdated. The healing on guard relied on the medi heals which now are not sufficient given the heavy condi pressure and the heavy CC which requires guards to use stun breaks.
Right now a build I developed which worked better (imo) to the “meditrapper” was to swap Judge’s Intervention by Contemplation of Purity. I also gave up on the knockback trait with the longbow to get a bit more condi cleanse and damage reduction. Not using marauder amulet either, swapped for the demolisher i think it was which gave toughness instead of vit and trapper rune. The problem is I no longer do any damage and once i’m in the cooldown phase i’m like a rabbit… The only class I can hurt with true shot are thieves IF i manage to hit them. Engis (which still remain heavily OP due to their low cooldown and high versatility) and eles reflect proyectiles almost all the time. I’ve managed to defend spots and take spots but then again I managed to outplay those classes. On equal ability I would stand no chance.

The main problem with guard atm is that basically ALMOST ALL utility skills are outdated and it’s the only class with problems in the weapon skills (such as torch 4 and scepter auto attack tracking. The proyectiles will go anywhere) and CONTRADICTORY TRAITS (DH trait 2 and 3: one requires you to NOT use F1 virtue and the other one to have it on permanently – big game hunter. It’s not the only pair which contradicts each other, even on the same trait line). Given this situation ppl can’t develope new builds since Anet only supports 1 viable build atm. For example the shield sucks and will never be used… Anet kept decreasing the cooldown on its skills yet they are wrong since their conception and haven’t been updated 1 Aegis with shield 4 while mesmers, reves, warriors can block 5 seconds on a low cooldown. As an example the only proyectile reflect the guard has is a wall which stands in place making you suceptible to AoE, lasts 10 seconds and has 40 secs cooldown; compared to the engi reflect which can be set up every 20 secs and lasts aprox 7 secs and surround you enabling you to ress freely (Also when combined with the hammer block makes it kinda invulnerable to proyectiles). PLUS, sword autoattack counts as a PRYECTILE… WHY?!??!?!!?!? you can’t auto attack engis, you can’t use sword 3, you can’t use focus 4, you can’t use longbow…. Engi > DH

The current “meta” in the game is: Spam conditions and skills, use CC as soon as they become available. When incased in the meta build, DH have no efficient condi cleanse, nor efficient stunbreaks. Their damage has been halved, their dynamic has been nerfed.
Before anyone says this stupidity: “Dh have F3 which gives them 5 secs of block, then renew focus and 5 more secs, git gud mate”. I ask you: Yes 13 secs… and then? Even if you don’t believe it DH don’t have a good Aegis upkeep time and it’s gone in 1 autoattack it’s not that powerful…

“Dh can cleanse 3 condis with F2 and heal 4k buddy that’s OP” Oh really? Well much to your surprise when you get condi bombed and you press F2 to get away. Did you know you get killed in mid jump due to condis? Did you also know it has a cast time of 2 secs aprox (the jump duration) which is so amazing for a CC to show up?

I do agree that the DH is now garbage but that’s because within the current meta and the outdated traits and skills only 1 build has become viable and that’s the longbow meditrapper. Now that the longbow has been nerfed it is no surprise that DH can’t actually do any good since they are supposed to be a “selfish” class.
The solution to this is not buffing back the DH to HoT release, I agree that a sheep could play a DH and kill 5 ppl with 1 opening strike (I’ve done it and it felt awesome) but it’s not the answer. The answer to the trash bin which DH now are is rethinking their utilities, updating the skills.
For example, NOBODY carries any skill other than Dragon’s Maw or Renew Focus. But the healing signet has such an amazing potential; it can turn a fully tired party back to 100%. However it has a 4 secs casting time (CC fest for thieves) and it ROOTS you (Would be like shouting in the middle of a hall hoping no one would notice you… imposible). True shot still roots you while doing the equivalent of damage to 2 autoattacks. The auras and passive auras (in traits) of the guardian have a 240 radius, that means only ppl in melee range from you benefit from it. The greatsword autoattack only deals full damage if you’re merged with your target (You didn’t know that one did you?). The condi heals while blocking has a 1 sec internal cooldown, that means almost no condi cleanse. The greatsword autoattack gives 5 seconds of might on the last attack while engi gets 10 seconds might on a hammer swing.

There is a lot more of what I’ve posted just above. Can make a full post about it and probably will do.

But you got the gist of it… DH as it is now is NON VIABLE as it has very little party support (healing team players with F2 while they are moving and running away is not as easy as it seems), has very little damage (If someone pops up Test of faith on you, don’t move you will only receive 1k damage TOTAL from the trap). Plus the meta now is just condi which have been and will almost always be the counter to guardians.

Thanks for reading.!

Im going to put it the same way ANET did.

“After we make changes, we need to give ppl time to discover the gems we put on the game and let the metta settle” That being said. Instead of reading and copying metabattle, be original.

Learn from good guardians, make your own builds, test them, make changes, adapt. Or you can just quit. That’s what the majority of ppl do when something requires effort from them.

And btw, guardian nerf was to req the player to actually use bow3, bow 4 and bow 5 instead of only spamming traps and bow 2.

Again, adapt or quit.

good guardians still can’t make EVERY SINGLE WEAPON not be reliant on projectiles

core guardian useless traits and utility skills aside, that is the #1 thing that must either be fixed or have the projectile hate toned down for guardians to be not 3 tiers below literally every other class.

seriously, look through the guardians weapons, literally every single weapon that isn’t shield or mace has at least 1 or 2 projectiles attached to it, even the melee weapon sets…ESPECIALLY THE MELEE WEAPONS.

Cyanon.1928:

Im going to put it the same way ANET did.

“After we make changes, we need to give ppl time to discover the gems we put on the game and let the metta settle” That being said. Instead of reading and copying metabattle, be original.

Learn from good guardians, make your own builds, test them, make changes, adapt. Or you can just quit. That’s what the majority of ppl do when something requires effort from them.

And btw, guardian nerf was to req the player to actually use bow3, bow 4 and bow 5 instead of only spamming traps and bow 2.

Again, adapt or quit.

I’ve tried different builds believe me I did. But the guardian was intended for bursting or bunking. That’s how it has always been, 2 different aproaches. The burn guardian, while tempting because of its high damage could only store 1 kind of condi, 2 as much. ANY condi cleanse will get rid of your full condi burst. Warriors, necros, engis, mesmers, rangers, thay can also stack you with a set of 4 to 5 condis.
Spirit weapons are a joke, and since the traits and skills are outdated the bunker guardian is not as viable as it was.. the low cooldown on condi spams makes the shout healing lackluster and you end up dead anyway. So if you can’t be defensive nor offensive nor develop a hybrid build, the problem needs to be looked at.

P.S: If you manage to attack someone with symbols on pvp while the other player is moving you’re my new hero. Necro symbols are way way wider than guardian symbols. Moreover if you say you can combo longbow 5 + 4 you’re very wrong, the #4 skill is a slow shot, and they reduced the cooldown on the barrier so again.. not viable. I always liked #3 basically because you can shoot it backwards but the damage is the same as an autoattack.

Yep guard sucks rn. Every other class is somewhere between somewhat competitive to completely broken, except dragonhunter. Considering this was the state of warrior in s1,2 and now warrior is also broken, i expect typical AN batkitten crazy buffs coming in s4 to make it competitive.

BeLZedaR.4790:

Yep guard sucks rn. Every other class is somewhere between somewhat competitive to completely broken, except dragonhunter. Considering this was the state of warrior in s1,2 and now warrior is also broken, i expect typical AN batkitten crazy buffs coming in s4 to make it competitive.

Any good guardian builds currently? maybe not on metabattle but counter meta? I think I heard somewhere maybe a shout guardian or something idk.

I’ve been playing a shout DH for a bit. So far it’s not bad. Great team support with boons and condi cleanse, decent sustained damage, and some sustain.

Moonsinn.5382:

I’ve been playing a shout DH for a bit. So far it’s not bad. Great team support with boons and condi cleanse, decent sustained damage, and some sustain.

Duo Queued with the DH ^ above and he did really well. This was emerald tier for what its worth.

The OP is actually quite right

This man is an ESL level player and lays out the guardian problems fairly well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q21IgXEppM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uyjBUQjeN8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5VrnYTCbzk

The only place a guardian is really any good is very low level PvP where enemies are not coordinated and do not pay attention.

Moonsinn.5382:

I’ve been playing a shout DH for a bit. So far it’s not bad. Great team support with boons and condi cleanse, decent sustained damage, and some sustain.

Everything the shout DH can do is done much much better by an ele or scrapper while providing more CC, support, reflects & or mobility or even stealth.

The same goes for offensive builds where scrapper/druid/rev/zerker warrior are concerned.

There is literally no reason to want a guardian on your team because everything it does is done better by someone else, often while providing more things it cannot like CC, reflects, mobility, condi pressure etc…

I run a shout dh with staff/mace shield and does better than meditrapper,you can 1 vs 2 untill help comes(exept if you get a mesmer/warr+ necro vs you….thats a fast death due to the amount of daze stuns),only problem is f2 can be stopped in mid air and f3 can be stopped but thats not the problem,the problem is that it you get the full cd on them and that doesnt seem right……

DH was garbage since the HoT inception, and previous to that Guardian have been in bad spot since at least the last summer.

Guardian was my main (more than 1.700 matches with him from over 2.600 matches) but I did only use Herald this third season (aside from picking DH to get a 3 lose streak in a row which ironically was useful to get a comeback with Rev and cleaning a tier in Sapphire, lol).

rian.9708:

I run a shout dh with staff/mace shield and does better than meditrapper,you can 1 vs 2 untill help comes(exept if you get a mesmer/warr+ necro vs you….thats a fast death due to the amount of daze stuns),only problem is f2 can be stopped in mid air and f3 can be stopped but thats not the problem,the problem is that it you get the full cd on them and that doesnt seem right……

As I said above

Everything a guardian can do is done better by someone else, often while doing the job better and providing things the guardian cannot.

For instance a shout guard/DH’s job is done better by a druid, ele or scrapper who does the same job while providing projectile reflects/blocks, CC & condition damage if need be. Not to mention much greater mobility and even stealth & reveals in the scrapper’s case.

problem isn’t dragonhunter (which is fairly bad – especially F2 and F3) problem is that core guardian sucks pretty bad, no trait synergies outdated weapon skills and only 1 viable mediocre build (valor+virtues+DH) = the “good spot” is ours, pls try to take it over if you can. We will fight for it!

Ragnarox.9601:

problem isn’t dragonhunter (which is fairly bad – especially F2 and F3) problem is that core guardian sucks pretty bad, no trait synergies outdated weapon skills and only 1 viable mediocre build (valor+virtues+DH) = the “good spot” is ours, pls try to take it over if you can. We will fight for it!

Here is the actual problem. Core Guardian has some issues that if fixed, like their illogical trait line choices or just flat out awful traits, would make them pretty competitive.

Fivedawgs.4267:

phokus.8934:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I disagree, the skill cap on the class has def being increased. There is some great DH out there, especially the trappers you can’t (as a power warrior) focus them… because they always stealth away. As a power warrior, i rathe duel a rev/ engi/ thief/ ranger/ ele than a DH.

Needed Eightdawgs the other day.

lol .. btw why dont you tell them how great DH are, or maybe share some tips with them. It looks like they are struggling. And i am working on a “DH counter” build.

They’ve already made up their minds.

That game I did 1.3m direct damage too! Certainly having an ele around you will work wonders.

5th to legend on DH only but f this game I’m quitting for OW anyway
DH is still garbage though

Booms.3952:

5th to legend on DH only but f this game I’m quitting for OW anyway
DH is still garbage though

Aww bye (M)oo(b)s

Booms.3952:

5th to legend on DH only but f this game I’m quitting for OW anyway
DH is still garbage though

Can I have your stuff?

Edit: Please

DH is in a fine spot in terms of damage and survivability; it’s other classes that are way over the top right now. Many classes have skills that do way too much for a single button press with the biggest offenders being scrapper, revenant and chronomancer.

The meta classes right now bring way too much to the table in a single build (damage, sustain, cc, condi, general utility). The options are to either nerf all of them or buff us. Just because it’s easier to buff us does not mean that it’s the right thing to do. Nerfing needs to be done. Not just numbers, but also functionality. Many over-the-top skills and traits need a nerf-bat to the face yet ANET is reluctant to do this for a multitude of understandble reasons. They ARE nerfing, this last ptch has been more nerfs than buffs. The problem is that they are nerfing too slowly.

I find Guards particularly nasty in pairs. The combination of traps and push pulls basically is a free kill on a focused (engi at least). 1 on 1 and with enough time and them bunkering a point, I’ll usually take them unless they are a much better player. I’ve run into versions that if they run I will not be able to take out in any reasonable amount of time.

If I need to rush the point for near match end and the last few ticks before 500, it’s unlikely I’ll survive the YOLO assault.

well thats it i give up on guild wars and pvp this game is sooo broken you play loads of matches with 0 wins they need to do something about this high ranked players coming to unranked and farming new players, dragon hunters i learned you cant see the traps gj anet and when you step on them insta dead great job anet along with other stuff in pvp i was told if you can play bunker you cant play pvp i believe thats true again fail how can i enjoy this game now? not that im a noob or salty or whatever they call it but seriosly 4 hours pvp 1 or 2 wins always dragon hunters ….

Oh wait though … DH’s are the suck … didn’t you read the thread?

Hunter.4783:

2k damage on Trueshot is a joke…vs classes running viper or other non toughness gear.

two thousand….non crit? A non crit isn’t suppose to hit ridiculously hard. A crit would have done almost 4k in Marauder, and this is against toughness. I’ve seen True Shots hit me for more than that when I run a vitality amulet on any profession. You may want to actually equip a power amulet and see how much damage it does with a crit. True Shot was nerfed because it did far too much damage for such a low CD, and it’s still too good. It just needs a longer CD (6-8 seconds is a good start) though and not a further damage reduction.

Zintrothen.1056:

Hunter.4783:

2k damage on Trueshot is a joke…vs classes running viper or other non toughness gear.

two thousand….non crit? A non crit isn’t suppose to hit ridiculously hard. A crit would have done almost 4k in Marauder, and this is against toughness. I’ve seen True Shots hit me for more than that when I run a vitality amulet on any profession. You may want to actually equip a power amulet and see how much damage it does with a crit. True Shot was nerfed because it did far too much damage for such a low CD, and it’s still too good. It just needs a longer CD (6-8 seconds is a good start) though and not a further damage reduction.

you do know that it’s an 8 month old post you’re arguing with right?

Hunter.4783:

2k damage on Trueshot is a joke…vs classes running viper or other non toughness gear.

Dear Anet, how is the dragonhunter supposed to survive in this spam fest and CC heavy environment. The dragonhunter has absolutely the worst survivability right now with close to no pressure, nerfed burst and pretty much 0 party support.

The only useful ability, F3, is on such a hefty cooldown that it can very well make no difference in a team fight dragging more than 10 seconds.

Dragonhunter lacks:

- Pressure : once you get off that lovely #2 + trap combo burst which will most likely be evaded you are left with bow attacks which tickle and no CC. Not to mention scrappers and eles are bathing in Projectile defense right now. I want to pull my hair whenever i see a scrapper and an ele on the other team…
- CC: F1 pull fails more often than you know, not to mention the actual pull is nicely countered by stability now…which most classes have. I guess Anet forgot this is not 2014 anymore
- Survivability: DH make lovely focus targets. It is so easy to make a DH go defensive and pretty much turn into a HP spunge while they are frantically burning their cooldowns followed by going down soon after. DH survivability is based on outdated mechanics. such as shelter, Renewed focus, and Medi heals…other classes have much much stronger survival tools.

Everyone pretty much agrees the DH nerfs were unwarranted and left the class in a sad state. Nerfing our main burst option is unacceptable when the DH lacks so much. The buff to #3 and #4 are ok on paper but NOT on actual gameplay.

Please Anet, the DH is completely shut down the moment one faces opponents of average skill lvl and above

Such a sad state that you can still play 3x+ DH in a match at 1800 mmr and still win, Dh is one of the best classes at the moment in spvp.

Let’s look at the pros and cons of dragon hunters
Pros: High aoe burst damage, high survivability, team support, lots of stability, lots of healing and condition cleanses, capable of dealing ranged and melee damage, decent cc with LB #5. and excellent kiting with LB #3. Projectile prevention(with f3) and most classes can’t 1v1 you while standing on a point due to traps. As well as having 4 viable builds at high rating.

Cons: mediocore mobility, bad sustained damage unless you’re playing a burn build.

this post is so entertaining <3

choovanski.5462:

Zintrothen.1056:

Hunter.4783:

2k damage on Trueshot is a joke…vs classes running viper or other non toughness gear.

two thousand….non crit? A non crit isn’t suppose to hit ridiculously hard. A crit would have done almost 4k in Marauder, and this is against toughness. I’ve seen True Shots hit me for more than that when I run a vitality amulet on any profession. You may want to actually equip a power amulet and see how much damage it does with a crit. True Shot was nerfed because it did far too much damage for such a low CD, and it’s still too good. It just needs a longer CD (6-8 seconds is a good start) though and not a further damage reduction.

you do know that it’s an 8 month old post you’re arguing with right?

I don’t think he does. Especially when this post was made in the era of un-nerfed scrapper, ele and 50% damage reductions on Bulwark Gyro and Phantasmal defender, not including merc amulet and clerics.

Lucentfir.7430:

choovanski.5462:

Zintrothen.1056:

Hunter.4783:

2k damage on Trueshot is a joke…vs classes running viper or other non toughness gear.

two thousand….non crit? A non crit isn’t suppose to hit ridiculously hard. A crit would have done almost 4k in Marauder, and this is against toughness. I’ve seen True Shots hit me for more than that when I run a vitality amulet on any profession. You may want to actually equip a power amulet and see how much damage it does with a crit. True Shot was nerfed because it did far too much damage for such a low CD, and it’s still too good. It just needs a longer CD (6-8 seconds is a good start) though and not a further damage reduction.

you do know that it’s an 8 month old post you’re arguing with right?

I don’t think he does. Especially when this post was made in the era of un-nerfed scrapper, ele and 50% damage reductions on Bulwark Gyro and Phantasmal defender, not including merc amulet and clerics.

back in the times when i was playing only cele hammer engi & not even 3 people could kill me lol. over 6k heal from leaps, always 25 might, man that was a fun time to be OP

Why has someone resurrected an 8 month old thread that is clearly not applicable to DHs now, and actually never was.

Idk but A mod should lock this, otherwise the DH mains will storm saying that’s dH is still trash tier….

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Idk but A mod should lock this, otherwise the DH mains will storm saying that’s dH is still trash tier….

There’s no need for the last bit, most DH mains know we’re actually in a good tier now, just not ESL tier since no ESL. Comments like that last bit make you come across as a salty thief. But yeh, mods should lock this thread.

It’s very situational. I’ll trash a DH fast if the situation is in my favor. If it suits the DH, I can die equally fast.

@Boon – Why did you rez this bad, old, thread? Troll?

@ Devs – Why is this thread not locked?