Guild Wars 2

So I guess there has been very different opinions on what is a fair % of shroud for a Reaper to start a duel.

Some say 0% some say 10% some say 20% some say 50% some say 100% and so on.

My question is, for those who hold an opinion on the fair % to start with, does it change depending on circumstances?

For example, each new patch means a review needs to be done on a Reaper’s starting lifeforce before a duel. Or depends on the matchup if the enemy class/build happens to hardcounter a Reaper, then a Reaper should start with more LF and less if a Reaper hardcounters his opponent (do Reapers hardcounter anyone?)

If the fair starting shroud changes depending on the circumstances, what do those who hold an opinion on this feel should be the fair average starting shroud for a Reaper in a 1v1 duel? Also are there other circumstances where a Reaper should start with a different amount to the fair average you have stated?

My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that a fair duel starts at 0.

Starting with 0% means you effectively start without several offensive and defensive options, unlike most other classes. 100% is a bit too much and gives a pretty good advantage. 50% seems fair. I don’t think it should really be changed based on the opponent.

The Wizland.8435:

Starting with 0% means you effectively start without several offensive and defensive options, unlike most other classes. 100% is a bit too much and gives a pretty good advantage. 50% seems fair. I don’t think it should really be changed based on the opponent.

Why should you start with any? Shroud is charged by killing enemies. In a duel you’re both starting from scratch. Besides, necro has plenty of LF generation.
It’s the same reason stacking sigils are regarded poor form.

SolarDragon.7063:

The Wizland.8435:

Starting with 0% means you effectively start without several offensive and defensive options, unlike most other classes. 100% is a bit too much and gives a pretty good advantage. 50% seems fair. I don’t think it should really be changed based on the opponent.

Why should you start with any? Shroud is charged by killing enemies. In a duel you’re both starting from scratch. Besides, necro has plenty of LF generation.
It’s the same reason stacking sigils are regarded poor form.

If this is true then reapers really need another defensive mechanism that doesn’t depend on generating it in a fight.

The good necros I have dueled in the past always start between 20-30%.

At 0%, the necro probably wouldn’t actually engage in a real match. At high shroud, the necro isn’t going to be challenged much.

So generally, if you want to get better, handicap yourself and start with less.

It’s the main problem of the necromancer balance.
If you start a 1vs1 with 0 LF you start at the “same” state of any other class, but any other class can Full his adrenaline/clone/legend(that start always at 50%)/attunement and more in a second. Frequently there’s skills that grant you to active your full Fx ability at maximum power in a second (adrenaline and clones generation, for example). In otehr situations they’re ready from the start (pet, steal, virtues for example).
That make a necro that start with 0 LF similar to a ranger that start with both pets on recharge, a thief without any point for his skills, a warrior that can grow up adrenaline only hitting the enemy and without all the skills/trait thart grant to recharge it really really fast (like the berserker elite or berserker stance), a engi that start with full Fx in cooldown.
If you then add that the Shroud is the Only Defensive skill of the Necro and also the only real offensive one, and that if you use if to attack you can’t use it after to defend, and the opposit…

But then there’s also the problem that a Necro, expecially Reaper, that start with Full LF is really dangerous compared to the other classes.

I think that a 25-30% when the Necro Start the match And also when Die and Respown can be a good solution for the game balance of the necro.

The necro have the hardest Fx ability to balance in the game why is a 0 to 100 -mere mortal to god- Fx skill and can not be fixed until they change it in another version, that can be more similar to adrenaline in speed to obtain and consume or to the thief initiative or the revenant energy.

Anyway i think that a 25-30% any time the necro start and respown, losing all the previously accumulated LF, creating anyway a different set in the “use or accumulate” strategy, and always forcing the necro to accumulate again the LF lost can be a good start to fix that class problem

Do you start with 100% druid skill bar?

shagwell.1349:

Do you start with 100% druid skill bar?

No, and necros build lf fast.

It depends on what you’re trying to simulate. Most of the time I fight necros they have full lifeforce so If I were going to duel necros I’d want them to start with full lifeforce so I could practice that scenario.

I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%

20% is the standard. That said there are some people in those duel arenas and in wvw dueling that won’t duel you with any lf. Every now and then the threads pop up and my guess is its just so they can say “see look the forums say I should get some lf to start”

Krysard.1364:

I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%

People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%

People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?

It’s actually fun to see how your post literally did not bring anything useful to the conversation.

Ryan.9387:

The good necros I have dueled in the past always start between 20-30%.

At 0%, the necro probably wouldn’t actually engage in a real match. At high shroud, the necro isn’t going to be challenged much.

So generally, if you want to get better, handicap yourself and start with less.

Ye, around 20% ish is standard. It was based around how much you could get by skill-swapping 3 or so minions for shroud.

Booms.2594:

Ryan.9387:

The good necros I have dueled in the past always start between 20-30%.

At 0%, the necro probably wouldn’t actually engage in a real match. At high shroud, the necro isn’t going to be challenged much.

So generally, if you want to get better, handicap yourself and start with less.

Ye, around 20% ish is standard. It was based around how much you could get by skill-swapping 3 or so minions for shroud.

Actually 2 of them to be exact

As someone who has dueled against many necros (mostly wvw) I think it should NOT be 0%.

Now if I lose to a necro who started at 100% will I blame it on the fact that they started at 100%? Probably not. However I I don’t think a necro needs to start at 100% LF to be competetive in a duel.

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%

People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?

It’s actually fun to see how your post literally did not bring anything useful to the conversation.

I guess you missed the part where I said, “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.”

I would say it depends who you duel. I fyou duel another necro, you should both start with 0.

If you duel a different class, you will die and lose, if you have no deathshroud.

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%

People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?

It’s actually fun to see how your post literally did not bring anything useful to the conversation.

I guess you missed the part where I said, “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.”

Except that they dont, so moot point. Shall I search and link the rules of every decent duel tournament and do some surveys around WvW about common knowledge or its not needed?

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%

People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?

It’s actually fun to see how your post literally did not bring anything useful to the conversation.

I guess you missed the part where I said, “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.”

Except that they dont, so moot point. Shall I search and link the rules of every decent duel tournament and do some surveys around WvW about common knowledge or its not needed?

Except that they do, so moot point…

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%

People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?

It’s actually fun to see how your post literally did not bring anything useful to the conversation.

I guess you missed the part where I said, “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.”

Except that they dont, so moot point. Shall I search and link the rules of every decent duel tournament and do some surveys around WvW about common knowledge or its not needed?

Except that they do, so moot point…

Dont you want to back up your argument with some 1v1 tourny rules or smth? Waiting for it

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%

People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?

It’s actually fun to see how your post literally did not bring anything useful to the conversation.

I guess you missed the part where I said, “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.”

Except that they dont, so moot point. Shall I search and link the rules of every decent duel tournament and do some surveys around WvW about common knowledge or its not needed?

Except that they do, so moot point…

Dont you want to back up your argument with some 1v1 tourny rules or smth? Waiting for it

Hinter Guard One Versus One Tournament Rules

Section 5: Article 3: Necromancer Life Force-As related to the generation of life force pre-match. The generation of life force via summon and dismissal of minions, attacking objects, or change of utilities is strictly prohibited. All matches must begin as the game was designed with zero life force. Any attempt to game the system will result in immediate disqualification.

There is one right there…only “legit” tournaments and duelists follow these rules.

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

Pyriall.1683:

Krysard.1364:

I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%

People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?

It’s actually fun to see how your post literally did not bring anything useful to the conversation.

I guess you missed the part where I said, “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.”

Except that they dont, so moot point. Shall I search and link the rules of every decent duel tournament and do some surveys around WvW about common knowledge or its not needed?

Except that they do, so moot point…

Dont you want to back up your argument with some 1v1 tourny rules or smth? Waiting for it

Hinter Guard One Versus One Tournament Rules

Section 5: Article 3: Necromancer Life Force-As related to the generation of life force pre-match. The generation of life force via summon and dismissal of minions, attacking objects, or change of utilities is strictly prohibited. All matches must begin as the game was designed with zero life force. Any attempt to game the system will result in immediate disqualification.

There is one right there…only “legit” tournaments and duelists follow these rules.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/EU-CC-FTW-1v1-Tournament/first
“- Necromancers are not allowed to have more than 20% life force at start”
http://play.eslgaming.com/guildwars2/global/gw2/open/xmas2014/
“Necromancers are not allowed to have more than 20% life force at start”
https://battlefy.com/academy-gaming/na-ag-1v1-cup-1/55d9f83372e7d54700566e82/info
“Other rulings: Necromancers will begin with 24% shroud (2 minions)”

I searched your tourny and I could not find anything. Is it hosted by your guild or smth?

Now if you can stop making a fool of yourself it will be greatly appreciated.

I think the tourneys linked need to be recent. like after every new patch.
new patches bring different changes and necros/reapers may need more LF to start with.
For example, this current patch necros got nerfed bad. I think 30-40% LF starting is a good range.

EremiteAngel.9765:

I think the tourneys linked need to be recent. like after every new patch.
new patches bring different changes and necros/reapers may need more LF to start with.
For example, this current patch necros got nerfed bad. I think 30-40% LF starting is a good range.

Then a DH should duel most classes with them starting at half HP because DH is in a bad state. Thats not how it works, necros start with 20% because is the minimum that you need in order to be able to use Shroud skills when early-pressured. Note that the 20% lf has always been the same no matter how good or bad necro was in the meta. Then, obv, you can talk with your opponent and decide between you too what seems to be the most fair, but the standard is 20% no matter what.

Back when I used to play on duelling servers, norm was starting with LF equal to 2 minions swapped (22-23%).