Guild Wars 2

And just ruins the game in general. It is stupid.

Scenario:
The highest 10 people queueing are 8 people around 1850 and 2 people around 2050.
If the game was solo queue only a balanced match could be created.
Instead, if the two people around 2050 are both duo queued together then it is impossible to create a mathematically fair match up, so the result will be a one sided boring game.
In addition the duo queue will likely be playing classes that compliment each other.

The result:
Everyone quits or gets toxic because the games are all blow outs.

Solution:
The game should be solo queue only. If someone wants to duo queue let them go unranked.

That will not fix anyone’s problems tho. There are only a few fixes to such problems.

A.) ANet just completely scrap the new MM.

They would have to create a match maker system that is completely tailored made for the special needs of GW2 and it’s remaining PvP community. With out this happening all is vain and match quality will still be trash level.

B.) ANet is going to have to start giving players who outperformed but lost match due to having silly team mates, way less loss on their ratings. And if you outperformed and carried a bunch of silly team mates to the victory. The system should have to give said players a huge amount of rating to help get him or her to where they should be.

C.) Decay needs to be way more server and forces players more so leader board players to play at least 2 or 3 games a day. If you can’t be active in a supposed competitive PvP event then you simply just don’t deserve that spot on the leader board that you have.

Duo is not that problem here. The problem is ANet is using a MM that requires a huge amount of players in order to be successful. However since the previous seasons with this MM have made informed PvPers fed to the point they no longer play anymore. There for the MM does can not perform it’s duty’s under the current conditions. It just creates more and more of those conditions that make players hate PvPing in GW2 to the point even more leave.

The Duos can stay. However the current MM system just needs to be completely replaced by a system that can deal with such a small community even if ANet has to create it them selves. At this point it’s nothing more then {b] how bad ANet want PvP to be successful{/b]. If ANet really wants it, they will have to pour in the resources and man power to do so. The more probable outcome is that ANet just put’s PvP like WvW has been for some time now into complete life support, to go spend more time on the up coming expansions, PvE content, and gem store items.

Reaper Alim.4176:

That will not fix anyone’s problems tho. There are only a few fixes to such problems.

A.) ANet just completely scrap the new MM.

They would have to create a match maker system that is completely tailored made for the special needs of GW2 and it’s remaining PvP community. With out this happening all is vain and match quality will still be trash level.

B.) ANet is going to have to start giving players who outperformed but lost match due to having silly team mates, way less loss on their ratings. And if you outperformed and carried a bunch of silly team mates to the victory. The system should have to give said players a huge amount of rating to help get him or her to where they should be.

C.) Decay needs to be way more server and forces players more so leader board players to play at least 2 or 3 games a day. If you can’t be active in a supposed competitive PvP event then you simply just don’t deserve that spot on the leader board that you have.

Duo is not that problem here. The problem is ANet is using a MM that requires a huge amount of players in order to be successful. However since the previous seasons with this MM have made informed PvPers fed to the point they no longer play anymore. There for the MM does can not perform it’s duty’s under the current conditions. It just creates more and more of those conditions that make players hate PvPing in GW2 to the point even more leave.

The Duos can stay. However the current MM system just needs to be completely replaced by a system that can deal with such a small community even if ANet has to create it them selves. At this point it’s nothing more then {b] how bad ANet want PvP to be successful{/b]. If ANet really wants it, they will have to pour in the resources and man power to do so. The more probable outcome is that ANet just put’s PvP like WvW has been for some time now into complete life support, to go spend more time on the up coming expansions, PvE content, and gem store items.

Actually duo queue is the problem because it removes flexibility from the matchmaking system which makes it less efficient at its role. This is not an opinion, it is basic numeration.

but how are people gonna farm bads at offf peak hours and pretend they are good at the game if they remove duo Q??

Emdrix.6124:

but how are people gonna farm bads at offf peak hours and pretend they are good at the game if they remove duo Q??

Imagine how fun the games would be in solo queue only. The system 3 years ago worked. Solo queue with a ladder. And team queue for any party size with a ladder. It was simple and effective.

Problem is not duoq, problem is when MM for some reason stacks all top 10 duoqs vs full team of solo with 1700-1800 rating. It puzzles me how MM doesn’t even attempt to spread those duos across 2 teams.

I would like for it to be impossible to match people outside of a 150 mmr range, or very hard.

if the try hards want to duo queue their meta specs they should have to wait 15 or 20 minutes to get a game. Otherwise the games are ruined for the majority of players.

A 1750 or 1800 or 1850 player should never get put with a 2k player in duo queue. Instead, the 1800 player should be matched with people of similar rating

i would like to see soloq only and a separate 5 q team mode for ranked only next season, everything else belongs to unranked.

Xca.9721:

i would like to see soloq only and a separate 5 q team mode for ranked only next season, everything else belongs to unranked.

this is the ideal thing, the sistem works on solo or teamq.
duo trio and quad are not formats to “compete” they are formats for team players to practice their sinergies and mechanics when they dont have the full team —-→unranked

Barring population problems, I think the ideal would be to have solo-only, 2/3/5-only queue, and have automated tournaments a few times throughout the week that are full team only.

And unranked is not a reasonable practice environment. That’s where people play to learn new classes, try out different builds, and generally take a load off.

Phineas Poe.3018:

And unranked is not a reasonable practice environment. That’s where people play to learn new classes, try out different builds, and generally take a load off.

unranked is not a reasonable practice environement cuz people practice in it… great argument

I agree. I think ranked should only be solo queue. People would definitely learn to carry their own weight

We had “get rid of 5 man premade” not so long ago. I wonder what will happen when we will get rid of duo queue. Next thread will be “Solo queue = breaks matchmaking”

megilandil.7506:

unranked is not a reasonable practice environement cuz people practice in it… great argument

It’s not a reasonable team practice environment.

Making ranked solo-queue only and to tell people they can only play with their friends semi-seriously in unranked isn’t a good idea.

I agree, soloq for next season.

Wargameur.6950:

We had “get rid of 5 man premade” not so long ago. I wonder what will happen when we will get rid of duo queue. Next thread will be “Solo queue = breaks matchmaking”

I think the issue is being able to queue with anyone in general

Wargameur.6950:

We had “get rid of 5 man premade” not so long ago. I wonder what will happen when we will get rid of duo queue. Next thread will be “Solo queue = breaks matchmaking”

but he’s actually right, the population is a big problem we don’t have enough players playing at the same time if you add duos then matchmaking can’t make fair matches, it will always be based on your luck if you get duos or terrible solo players.

Elxdark.9702:

Wargameur.6950:

We had “get rid of 5 man premade” not so long ago. I wonder what will happen when we will get rid of duo queue. Next thread will be “Solo queue = breaks matchmaking”

but he’s actually right, the population is a big problem we don’t have enough players playing at the same time if you add duos then matchmaking can’t make fair matches, it will always be based on your luck if you get duos or terrible solo players.

Not to mention the game used to have solo queue with a leaderboard and it all worked just fine.

The only reason it didn’t pan out is because they made team queue more rewarding and it had a better map rotation.

Phineas Poe.3018:

megilandil.7506:

unranked is not a reasonable practice environement cuz people practice in it… great argument

It’s not a reasonable team practice environment.

Making ranked solo-queue only and to tell people they can only play with their friends semi-seriously in unranked isn’t a good idea.

im not againts a team q, im againts mixed q, mixing teams all sort of it with soloers breaks the “competition”

megilandil.7506:

Phineas Poe.3018:

megilandil.7506:

unranked is not a reasonable practice environement cuz people practice in it… great argument

It’s not a reasonable team practice environment.

Making ranked solo-queue only and to tell people they can only play with their friends semi-seriously in unranked isn’t a good idea.

im not againts a team q, im againts mixed q, mixing teams all sort of it with soloers breaks the “competition”

I never said you were.

I wrote that, barring population problems, the ideal system would offer ranked solo-queue, ranked dynamic team queue (2/3/5 split), and automated daily/weekly automated tournaments that handed out a raw gold/gem/llama/BL keys payout.

Such a system would offer a reasonable enough gradient scale in competitiveness to tap into what everyone playing Guild Wars 2 is looking for. Unranked and solo queue offers the casual/semi-serious environment for most WvW/PvE plebs like myself that enjoy PvP but have no grand scale e-sport aspirations.

Implementing a full team queue wouldn’t work. The population just isn’t there (yet?), and you can see that just on the basis of how unpopular guild teams were; that my PvE guild, EG, won third place last season says enough in and of itself.

Instead, putting duos/trios together with a full team queue would substantially reduce queue times and would create more favorable matchups than the old dynamic queue system did. You’ll still see legendary players queued with gold players, but it offers a reasonable stepping stone and more organized structure to help prepare played for automated tournaments, which should really make their return now that ESL/AG is over.

Automated tournaments would fill the gaping hole left in the competitive community tournaments, and I would argue having automated tournaments like we had in GW1 with a built-in spectator system (something I’d ideally see coming with the next expansion) would greatly elevate the sense of competition in the game.

Guild Wars 1 had automated tournaments that ran three times a day. That we’re four years into Guild Wars 2 without a spectator mode or automated tournaments is a byproduct of Twitch and AG/ESL lessening the “need” for it, but without these core systems natively in place PvP will never grow. Most won’t go to Twitch to watch PvP; it needs to be embedded in the client.

My specific comment regarding unranked was a general response to the ideas raised in this thread that it’s a suitable alternative to having a dynamic queue when it’s simply not.

The duo-queue idea was great in theory but the population at the top is simply too small to create even matches beyond gold 3. To make matters worse, a large percentage of platinum is either decaying or playing on alts, which makes matchmaking even less accurate.

I also think whatever comes in the future, they need to uncouple current and future elite specializations from expansion box prices, at least as far as PvP is concerned. Leave them unactivated in PvE until they pay the entry fee, whatever. But PvP needs to regain its horizontal roots.

Lordrosicky.5813:

And just ruins the game in general. It is stupid.

Scenario:
The highest 10 people queueing are 8 people around 1850 and 2 people around 2050.
If the game was solo queue only a balanced match could be created.
Instead, if the two people around 2050 are both duo queued together then it is impossible to create a mathematically fair match up, so the result will be a one sided boring game.
In addition the duo queue will likely be playing classes that compliment each other.

The result:
Everyone quits or gets toxic because the games are all blow outs.

Solution:
The game should be solo queue only. If someone wants to duo queue let them go unranked.

Except it is mathematically possible. You place that duo queue with much worse teammates to balance out the average rating between two teams. The system currently doesn’t do this, but saying it isn’t mathematically possible is just plain wrong.

Also, for those that want ranked to be nothing but solo queue only and think teams should stick to unranked yet you come to the forums every day to complain about bad teammates……..yeah, no. I mean think about it, you are playing a team game that requires you to work together with 4 other players, but you don’t want to put in the effort to find other people to play with and then complain about the team anet gave you. Anet acknowledges they can’t accurately judge how an individual player performs in a match, yet you guys think your individual rating is somehow accurate. You say population is too low for Team Queue to exist, yet anet can put together a team for you to queue with in less than a couple of minutes.

Solo Queue doesn’t belong in Ranked. Ranked should be Team Queue only. If players really want to judge how they play in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 etc, then a 5v5 game mode is not the place to do it. It will never be accurate unless Anet was somehow able to measure individual contribution in matches that couldn’t be exploited. What you guys need is a new game mode that is made for smaller teams or a 1v1 game mode.

You make some good points Shaogin. Personally, I don’t want to spend the time looking for/making a team. I never liked having to sync up with multiple people’s schedules. I just want to queue and play… I’d be happy if they split solo queue and team queue again.

Shaogin.2679:

Lordrosicky.5813:

And just ruins the game in general. It is stupid.

Scenario:
The highest 10 people queueing are 8 people around 1850 and 2 people around 2050.
If the game was solo queue only a balanced match could be created.
Instead, if the two people around 2050 are both duo queued together then it is impossible to create a mathematically fair match up, so the result will be a one sided boring game.
In addition the duo queue will likely be playing classes that compliment each other.

The result:
Everyone quits or gets toxic because the games are all blow outs.

Solution:
The game should be solo queue only. If someone wants to duo queue let them go unranked.

Except it is mathematically possible. You place that duo queue with much worse teammates to balance out the average rating between two teams. The system currently doesn’t do this, but saying it isn’t mathematically possible is just plain wrong.

Also, for those that want ranked to be nothing but solo queue only and think teams should stick to unranked yet you come to the forums every day to complain about bad teammates……..yeah, no. I mean think about it, you are playing a team game that requires you to work together with 4 other players, but you don’t want to put in the effort to find other people to play with and then complain about the team anet gave you. Anet acknowledges they can’t accurately judge how an individual player performs in a match, yet you guys think your individual rating is somehow accurate. You say population is too low for Team Queue to exist, yet anet can put together a team for you to queue with in less than a couple of minutes.

Solo Queue doesn’t belong in Ranked. Ranked should be Team Queue only. If players really want to judge how they play in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 etc, then a 5v5 game mode is not the place to do it. It will never be accurate unless Anet was somehow able to measure individual contribution in matches that couldn’t be exploited. What you guys need is a new game mode that is made for smaller teams or a 1v1 game mode.

I suppose the system could put the high rated duos with much lower people. This would make sense from a fair match perspective. Pretty bad that it does not do this alreeady.

Thank you! Finally someone said it.

The system is only meant to match full 5-man teams or solo individuals. That’s it.

Duos distort the matchmaking system. As long as people are allowed to queue with a pair or any partial team, there will always be unbalanced games. When you’re allowed to do that, you artificially raise or lower the mmr of your team depending on how skilled your duo partner is. In a sense, you guarantee an unbalanced game for the rest of your team. You override the matchmaking system from doing its job.

Lordrosicky.5813:

And just ruins the game in general. It is stupid.

Scenario:
The highest 10 people queueing are 8 people around 1850 and 2 people around 2050.
If the game was solo queue only a balanced match could be created.
Instead, if the two people around 2050 are both duo queued together then it is impossible to create a mathematically fair match up, so the result will be a one sided boring game.
In addition the duo queue will likely be playing classes that compliment each other.

The result:
Everyone quits or gets toxic because the games are all blow outs.

Solution:
The game should be solo queue only. If someone wants to duo queue let them go unranked.

Lol
The problem isn’t the duo or solo, the problem is that the game pre-arranges a winning team, and some people will tend to be on the prearranged losing team more often than not!
I played two games today before leaving because honestly PvP has only been worse and worse since HoT.
First game we had close ONLY for most the match, and did people rotate? No, there was 2 people (me and another guy) trying to get other points, and the other 3 were 3v1 AND LOSING on close.
Second game, we had a thief ragequit and go AFK 2 minutes into the match.
It gets annoying after a while, and Solo/Duo queue only makes it worse, when we had Team ranked i could play with my friends and have fun, and do hours and hours of PvP, win or lose (and trust me, you can lose), now it feels like a chore having to put up with people that can’t play.
A team or a duo isn’t that big of an advantage, the problem is poor balanced classes, poor mechanics and poorer matchmaking, probably because there’s less and less pop for the algorithm to be effective.
Simply put GW2 PvP is a mess because its a mess, its not queues. Because trust me, next season you’ll be complaining that 1 person queues are imbalanced, and whatnot.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Everyone quits or gets toxic because the games are all blow outs.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but the games aren’t all blowouts. go pull up some videos on youtube, some are pretty close, or at least in the 100 point difference range.

Lordrosicky.5813:

The problem isn’t the duo or solo, the problem is that the game pre-arranges a winning team, and some people will tend to be on the prearranged losing team more often than not!

That is precisely what duo does. It pre-arranges a winning team based on who you partnered with. Your duo partner can either be really good or really bad. This makes teams and therefore matches unbalanced.

The matchmaking is meant for full 5-man teams.

JTGuevara.9018:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The problem isn’t the duo or solo, the problem is that the game pre-arranges a winning team, and some people will tend to be on the prearranged losing team more often than not!

That is precisely what duo does. It pre-arranges a winning team based on who you partnered with. Your duo partner can either be really good or really bad. This makes teams and therefore matches unbalanced.

The matchmaking is meant for full 5-man teams.

This is done with either duo or 5 man or all singles. Sure sometimes that algorithm is os blatant that we see 2 duo premades in a single team vs a whole team of singles. But that’s not the problem, the problem is that matchmaking is BIASED always. As in it NEVER EVER produces a fair match, so pvp isn’t fun, your skills don’t matter because its weighed down by the rest of the team, the only way to even off-put that even slightly is by having a full pre-made team, and even then it’s not guaranteed. I’ve played several games with voip, pre-mades and everything and still got my kitten whooped. Sure none of my friends (who don’t play any more, in fact i barely do) are pros, but if the game pre-determines you lose, you’ll usually lose unless some kind of miracle happens.

The only times i can remember winning and having the “meant to be losing but won” bonus was either when playing a pre-made and doing pretty much flawless rotations, when in legacy we managed to get enough points to win at the boss, and win by like 500-490, or when the other team had an AFK.

My point is, the game at this point is just not fun:

After the condi update patch we had a meta where each class could easily build 2-3 different ways and be very viable, now you have 1-2 builds that are pretty much mandatory, and most of the require a Specialization, so you either play meta or you don’t play at all.

You still have “unkillable” classes, what’s worse, some class can be invulnerable and still dish out metric tons of damage while being unkillable.

Rallying is SOOOO BROKEN, many classes can solo ress someone faster than the finisher animation.

So the game becomes frustrating and anti-fun. Its not about about how many people can queue together, its about all the other systems.

Also, if you can’t find a guildmate, or a friend to duo with, that’s a whole other issue, and it’s either on you, or the game is so depressingly bad that people are leaving it (my case is pretty much this).

ReaverKane.7598:

Rallying is SOOOO BROKEN, many classes can solo ress someone faster than the finisher animation.

Lost a match vs a rally dream team:
2 hammer engi
1 druid
1 warrior
1 thief

Stealth stomp/ress everywhere and not enough cc to stop it.