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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

In comparison:

Two DotA 2 celebrities currently streaming, 13k and 6.9k viewers (Arteezy and EternalEnvy)

Theres more people watching WingsofDeath on LoL test his 60fps game settings than people watching the GW2 proleague.

Go esports, amiright?

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Posted by: Agemnon.4608

Agemnon.4608

Probably because it is well known that druids can prolong a battle. That is just one negative, another being the relatively limited scope for stratagems and tactics. The best players apply the same strategies and have the same builds and compositions, and even skill differences are close. The best and second best isn’t absolute and can be determined by one’s mood and/or diet since when you’re that good the difference between best and second best boils down to subjective factors as technical excellence is achieved by both.

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Posted by: Morwath.9817

Morwath.9817

Probably because it is well known that druids can prolong a battle. That is just one negative, another being the relatively limited scope for stratagems and tactics. The best players apply the same strategies and have the same builds and compositions, and even skill differences are close. The best and second best isn’t absolute and can be determined by one’s mood and/or diet since when you’re that good the difference between best and second best boils down to subjective factors as technical excellence is achieved by both.

What? You blame the Druids, which were least used profession today?:P

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Posted by: Agemnon.4608

Agemnon.4608

Probably because it is well known that druids can prolong a battle. That is just one negative, another being the relatively limited scope for stratagems and tactics. The best players apply the same strategies and have the same builds and compositions, and even skill differences are close. The best and second best isn’t absolute and can be determined by one’s mood and/or diet since when you’re that good the difference between best and second best boils down to subjective factors as technical excellence is achieved by both.

What? You blame the Druids, which were least used profession today?:P

No one knows what’s going to be played beforehand except the players themselves. The druid part was speculation and even then had some, not most blame.

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Well, I blame conquest, it is a terrible game mode to spectate. But hey, we have more viewers than heroes of the storm’s general streams. Thats a win, right?

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Posted by: Hakuryuu.8634

Hakuryuu.8634

$200000 well spent

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Posted by: that baby stealing dingo.7216

that baby stealing dingo.7216

Well, I blame conquest, it is a terrible game mode to spectate. But hey, we have more viewers than heroes of the storm’s general streams. Thats a win, right?

Also beat out the guy streaming his Myst speed runs on his eMac. He only has like 4k viewers LOL

I have a sword, a dagger, and an estimated life span of 2.47 seconds.

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Posted by: Photinous.4628

Photinous.4628

Considering that the go4 cups only brought in about 1k max, 5k is a pretty good step up after only 2 weeks.

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

From what I saw todays matches reached a peak of about 3.5K

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Considering that the go4 cups only brought in about 1k max, 5k is a pretty good step up after only 2 weeks.

This is the result of 3 years of build up. If the game actually had a large fanbase for the PvP we wouldn’t be seeing these miserable numbers. Arenanet should be ashamed at this outcome.

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Posted by: Zeghart.9841

Zeghart.9841

Because comparing literally the biggest esports games in the world to GW2 is definitely a fair comparison. Please.

Try looking up other competitive games numbers like fighting games, and you’ll see they’re not that far off from the viewers GW2 is currently making with proleague (if not lower), outside really big events.

GW2’s pvp is literally still in its infancy and it still has balance problems. It needs time and care to grow – if it will grow, of course.

It has to start somewhere. It has to start sometime.
What better place than here? What better time than now?

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Because comparing literally the biggest esports games in the world to GW2 is definitely a fair comparison. Please.

Try looking up other competitive games numbers like fighting games, and you’ll see they’re not that far off from the viewers GW2 is currently making with proleague (if not lower), outside really big events.

GW2’s pvp is literally still in its infancy and it still has balance problems. It needs time and care to grow – if it will grow, of course.

I’m comparing a major guild wars 2 tournament to another esports celebrity testing his computer…and the latter won. Regardless of how riveting it is to watch someone test his computers, these numbers are not something Arenanet should be proud of.

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Posted by: Vieux P.1238

Vieux P.1238

GW2’s pvp is literally still in its infancy and it still has balance problems. It needs time and care to grow – if it will grow, of course.

OH plzzzzz.. after 3 years… we are way ….way… way… pass that excuse. *(rolling my eyes)

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Posted by: StickerHappy.8052

StickerHappy.8052

GW2’s pvp is literally still in its infancy and it still has balance problems. It needs time and care to grow – if it will grow, of course.

OH plzzzzz.. after 3 years… we are way ….way… way… pass that excuse. *(rolling my eyes)

And we will continue to be in infancy if the balance devs dont step up. 3 freaking years frequent balancing is the problem, so why can;t they fix it?

a.) they do not want to
b.) they do not have enough man power to do it
c.) they are clueless

Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Balance is the SECOND issue. the first issue is CONQUEST. The game could be perfectly balanced and it’d still be a load of visual garbage on the screen because thats what playing conquest means for you to do; loiter around a circle spamming cooldowns.

Visual garbage does a successful esport not make.

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Posted by: Zeghart.9841

Zeghart.9841

OH plzzzzz.. after 3 years… we are way ….way… way… pass that excuse. *(rolling my eyes)

3 years of what? Only relatively recently spvp started getting the attention and development it needed and slowly kicking into gear, without even talking about balance. Hell, it still doesn’t have a lot of the features that would actually complete it.

It puts Anet in a bad light for mostly ignoring it early on, but spvp definitely doesn’t have 3 years of good support behind its back. It might be a 3 year old kid, but it’s still a kid.

I’m comparing a major guild wars 2 tournament to another esports celebrity testing his computer…and the latter won. Regardless of how riveting it is to watch someone test his computers, these numbers are not something Arenanet should be proud of.

An esport celebrity of one of the biggest esports in the world – and a famous streamer to top that off. Still not a fair comparison. And the actual stream content matters less than you’d think – I’m pretty sure that if Lirik made a stream completely about picking his nose, he’d still get 20-30k viewers.

Guild Wars 2 never had a huge Twitch following (even if it does MUCH better than a lot of other games), it’s unreasonable to expect it to suddenly explode. Seeing how these tournaments can bring in five times the viewers the game has normally, it’s not a bad start as you might think. As I said, it will just take time and care from this point forward.

It has to start somewhere. It has to start sometime.
What better place than here? What better time than now?

(edited by Zeghart.9841)

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Posted by: Vieux P.1238

Vieux P.1238

OH plzzzzz.. after 3 years… we are way ….way… way… pass that excuse. *(rolling my eyes)

3 years of what?

3 years of what is exactly the point. Most mmo’s dont last 1 year if they don’t get there game into gear. Especially pvp since it’s the only thing to do after pve is completed. Gw2 had made progress to there pvp , but at a slow snail pace. & as of yet still has major balance issues among other things.

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Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

To the people defending them saying it’s a big step up or spvp is apparently in its infancy – was it worth the $200k though ?

Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia

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Posted by: Vieux P.1238

Vieux P.1238

To the people defending them saying it’s a big step up or spvp is apparently in its infancy – was it worth the $200k though ?

Exactly! +200k points on that one.

& the answer is inscribed on the number of viewers watching it. Less then 5k. :/

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

OH plzzzzz.. after 3 years… we are way ….way… way… pass that excuse. *(rolling my eyes)

3 years of what? Only relatively recently spvp started getting the attention and development it needed and slowly kicking into gear, without even talking about balance. Hell, it still doesn’t have a lot of the features that would actually complete it.

It puts Anet in a bad light for mostly ignoring it early on, but spvp definitely doesn’t have 3 years of good support behind its back. It might be a 3 year old kid, but it’s still a kid.

I’m comparing a major guild wars 2 tournament to another esports celebrity testing his computer…and the latter won. Regardless of how riveting it is to watch someone test his computers, these numbers are not something Arenanet should be proud of.

An esport celebrity of one of the biggest esports in the world – and a famous streamer to top that off. Still not a fair comparison. And the actual stream content matters less than you’d think – I’m pretty sure that if Lirik made a stream completely about picking his nose, he’d still get 20-30k viewers.

Guild Wars 2 never had a huge Twitch following (even if it does MUCH better than a lot of other games), it’s unreasonable to expect it to suddenly explode. Seeing how these tournaments can bring in five times the viewers the game has normally, it’s not a bad start as you might think. As I said, it will just take time and care from this point forward.

Explode? No.
Get more than 3.5k viewers? Yes.
Actually engage with their community about the viability of conquest before championing it as their premier esports game mode? Yes.
Admit they’ve dun goofed? One can hope.

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Posted by: senki.1046

senki.1046

Please let us spectate Proleague games by ourselves like in GW 1. I hate to watch it when someone else is leading the camera.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

GW2’s pvp is literally still in its infancy and it still has balance problems. It needs time and care to grow – if it will grow, of course.

OH plzzzzz.. after 3 years… we are way ….way… way… pass that excuse. *(rolling my eyes)

And we will continue to be in infancy if the balance devs dont step up. 3 freaking years frequent balancing is the problem, so why can;t they fix it?

a.) they do not want to
b.) they do not have enough man power to do it
c.) they are clueless

Do we have to choose one? I’d like all 3.

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Posted by: Sunshine.5014

Sunshine.5014

That $200k should be used to spend on another game designer to release a balance patch every month.

Gray out the HP for future condition damage
Already quit PvP. Just log in here and there to troll.

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Posted by: Zeghart.9841

Zeghart.9841

Explode? No.
Get more than 3.5k viewers? Yes.
Actually engage with their community about the viability of conquest before championing it as their premier esports game mode? Yes.
Admit they’ve dun goofed? One can hope.

Still way too early to reliably say that.
3.5k viewers for a single stream when the game itself averages a thousand in total on a good day still isn’t bad – especially since it peaked 7k last week. Anything more would probably count as “exploding”. When we’ll see it dip below the numbers of a dev stream, then I’ll most definitely agree with you.

Not to mention that a lower viewership is to be expected with the current state of the balance and how the games are actually playing out.

Whether it will be worth the 400k they’re spending, it still all has to be decided – but even if it won’t, Anet should definitely be praised for investing so much into pvp and its community. With all the complaining about the balance going around, we’re kinda forgetting that they’re investing hundreds of thousands of dollars towards increasing the pvp community and (hopefully, eventually) making it better – whether it was the best choice or not, the aim is still that.

It has to start somewhere. It has to start sometime.
What better place than here? What better time than now?

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Posted by: TerminalMontage.5693

TerminalMontage.5693

Heck I get more views when I stream nonsense. This makes me sad.

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Posted by: Buran.3796

Buran.3796

…I saw 8k-9k during the Rank 55 vs TCG.

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

How do you spectate/commentate a game where you have weakly defined roles and a player’s class tells you next to nothing about which of those they might be running?

Honestly my biggest issue is the team size is so small you end up with a bunch of one-on-one encounters which are really frikin’ BORING.

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

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Posted by: Ironcloud.3892

Ironcloud.3892

It’s a pretty big jump from the usual 1k~, but it could definitely be more if there wasn’t a 4 man bruiser meta with imbalanced animation effects and excessive fields. I can’t imagine what a newer player could be thinking whilst watching some of these fights.

I feel like it’s super important for their to be a balance direction where there are at least 2 glasscannons in a standard comp, it’s so much easier (and fun) to follow burst rather than sustained dps when it comes to spectating.

I also think the casters, or at least the EU ones, aren’t helping either. They seem to rarely comment on individual mechanics or ‘play skills’ (gravity well, jade winds, invuln well etc), they sort of just dumb the game down to pure rotations – obviously it’s far easier said than done and the above issues don’t help at all.

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Posted by: Pumpkin.5169

Pumpkin.5169

I was on Twitch right after they became Twitch after departing from Justin.tv.
The biggest gaming streamer had 2,5k maximum viewers back then. It was 2010, LoL season one.
It took 5 years of esports scene to grow this much. It’s the most played game in the entire world. Dota has been around for even more. WoW, same thing. GW2 will never be nowhere close in views of the big esports games, because it’s a MMO, and a hard one to watch. There’s actually a lot, a lot of reasons for GW2 scene to not explode, but making these comparisons are completely pointless.

Pumpkin – Mag

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Posted by: Laodike.8640

Laodike.8640

Its because of this boring bunker meta. Just listen to the commentators themselves, when they commentate a 1vs1 on a point: “This can go on for a while, lets look somewhere else.” Back in the old days, those outer node 1vs1 were something really exciting. Also strategy was more complex, when you couldn’t afford to run 3 bunkers, which mean 1 for each point.

When there was a berserker meta in the first two years, spvp tournaments like the team paradigm invitational Tournament had 10k viewers.

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Posted by: Doon.2364

Doon.2364

To be fair, Gw2 Pro League is still new. Can’t expect it to be a huge spectacle from the start. Although I wouldn’t watch it because there is just too much going on. It’s very hard to follow. I think the only way to make the match more viewer friendly is to have 3 cameras on each point and we can watch all fights simultaneously. Would be nice if Gw2 have a feature like Starcraft 2 where you can download the match so you can view it in game as if you were spectating it.

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Posted by: Nath Forge Tempete.1645

Nath Forge Tempete.1645

I guess they just have to improve their spectate mode … and their maps =D mooooooore

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

Please let us spectate Proleague games by ourselves like in GW 1. I hate to watch it when someone else is leading the camera.

So much this.

It was such a pleasure to observe top ranked teams games in GW1 in game. 3 years on and we still don’t have this basic feature, it’s appalling.

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Posted by: Matt Hax.8927

Matt Hax.8927

Please let us spectate Proleague games by ourselves like in GW 1. I hate to watch it when someone else is leading the camera.

So much this.

It was such a pleasure to observe top ranked teams games in GW1 in game. 3 years on and we still don’t have this basic feature, it’s appalling.

there are no advertisements in game =P

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Posted by: Morwath.9817

Morwath.9817

Previous week had 7+k, this week the highest I’ve seen was 4,5k, does that mean 30% drop in interest during one week without balance patch?

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

there are no advertisements in game =P

But advertisements to an average of 5k viewers make a lot less sense.

How would help in expanding the player base (especially now that people can create f2p starting accounts) giving the option of observing the pvp games from within the game?

New players could just make an account, observe a bit, when they want, how they want, and they would probably understand a lot better by themselves than following those hysterical broadcasts which sometimes are hard to understand even for some old GW2 players with all those random camera changes etc.

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

For the record some people probably don’t watch the tourney live. I for instance wait till the next day so that I can skip all that annoying commentary between matches.

And we will continue to be in infancy if the balance devs dont step up. 3 freaking years frequent balancing is the problem, so why can;t they fix it?

IKR, just look at League where half the champions are trash, and we all know how utterly failed League is competitively.

/eyeroll

Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube

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Posted by: SamTheGuardian.2938

SamTheGuardian.2938

In comparison:

Two DotA 2 celebrities currently streaming, 13k and 6.9k viewers (Arteezy and EternalEnvy)

Theres more people watching WingsofDeath on LoL test his 60fps game settings than people watching the GW2 proleague.

Go esports, amiright?

ArenaNet needs to understand the dynamics of e-sport. You can’t just toss a lot of money into advertising it and get sponsors to put up a huge grand prize payout. It takes A LOT more effort than that. The non-pro sPvP players have to really, really love the game. They have to feel it’s well balanced and they have to take it pretty serious to want to watch it at this level.

What we have in GW2 sPvP post HoT is a huge mess. The core tools a player and team captain needs to improve their game are completely absent. Team captain’s can’t even spectate a post-game playback to see who needs work and who doesn’t. We are given very, very simple metrics regarding our past matches.

It’s very clear sPvP was designed to be an after thought in GW2, never a serious competitor because so many core things are missing that people who would take sPvP seriously would demand.

Truth is ESL Pro League is behind grossly mishandled. I think advertising wise, the company has done a great job. The problem is they destroyed the non-pro sPvP experience. It’s an unbalanced mess where only those who own HoT can have builds that are really competitive (as the current meta clearly shows)

You have a lot of people who took a break from sPvP for HoT who are coming back into it, loading up their D/D Ele, Burn Guard, Hammer Warrior, whatever.. and they realize after a few hours that those builds they invested so much time in learning are now not very effective at all. Some are even quoting the game over this.

So the reality is to most players right now GW2 sPvP is a broken mess. You have maybe 50% of the sPvP population who are no either off focusing on new legendaries, ascended armor or raiding -or- they have quit the game. The rest are trying to master a new meta build and give this a real shot, but in unranked matches they are encountering team after team where you have players running inappropriate, old-meta builds. On top of that there is still the pre-made vs pug problem. So sPvP play outside ESL is completely kittened. THAT’S YOUR PRIMARY AUDIENCE for tuning in on Twitch

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Posted by: holodoc.5748

holodoc.5748

5K? I never saw the viewer count go over 2.5-2.8K during viewer spikes. Is GW2 ESL streamed elsewhere aside Twitch?

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Posted by: Thiefz.3695

Thiefz.3695

Hollts has more viewers on his Youtube videos than Jebro does on PvP events. I did the analysis last week. As much as you might cry that ESL viewership is up, it still has yet to beat the viewership of normal Gw2 streamers/channels.

I understand you don’t want to compare large eSports vs the small GW2 eSport scene but when you compare like to like, it still shows that PvP needs more viewership.

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Balance is the SECOND issue. the first issue is CONQUEST. The game could be perfectly balanced and it’d still be a load of visual garbage on the screen because thats what playing conquest means for you to do; loiter around a circle spamming cooldowns.

Visual garbage does a successful esport not make.

I honestly would like to know why they put so much emphasis on creating Stronghold only to abandon it with high end PvP…

Because I agree that conquest emphasizes a type of PvP (dogpile on a capture point) that is very bad for the current high-speed, high-effects type mechanics that GW2 has for gameplay from a viewer perspective.

GW2 mechanics are very fun as a player, but the game type really needs to be paced and distributed better for any chance of success with an audience.

Maybe Stronghold isn’t the solution due to it’s high dependance on NPCs, but I think it’s in the right direction. Action needs to be dispersed more throughout the map and there needs to be more focus on objectives beyond just smashing an opponent and rotating between 3 spots.

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Posted by: posthumecaver.6473

posthumecaver.6473

Hmmm, let me guess why that is happening?

May be the teams are full of Hybrid bunkers that does not die but not kill anybody also and the games are won by out rotating the other team and not by killing them.

Should I gift 15 mins of my life to this boredom.

When GW2 will incentivizes the teams that take risks (which means not running all hybrid bunkers and every team will have 4 zerkers + 1 support) then I will start watching GW2 PVP not before.

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Posted by: Vieux P.1238

Vieux P.1238

Halt ppl.. There is no esport in Gw2.. This all but a dream. But….. Anet throwing 200k in the mystic toilet is real tho. gulp!

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Posted by: Jaxom.7310

Jaxom.7310

Halt ppl.. There is no esport in Gw2.. This all but a dream. But….. Anet throwing 200k in the mystic toilet is real tho. gulp!

it won’t be in the mystic toilet, it’ll be in the pockets of the same kids who they’ve given money to in the past, altho not nearly as much as they giving this time

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Posted by: Starfall.6425

Starfall.6425

The most interesting part of those streams are the minutes before the actual game…

You have Jebro talk about the team-comp, their builds, some tactics and some offtopic stuff. It is quite interesting and might help some guys improve by watching.
But as soon as the game starts it is quite a mess to watch.

1) It is nearly impossible to follow the movement/position of all the players on the map
2) It is impossible to actually tell what the players are doing when you are not well experienced with all classes and even then it’s hard
3) If I get it right only one guy (Jebro for EU?) is moving the camera. He is no god and so even he will miss important stuff

PvP in GW2 is actually very fun to play and is quite good (generally speaking) but for a watching audience.. it will never be a good view.

[DP] – Diamond Pirates
[AM] – Abaddon’s Mouth

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Posted by: Vieux P.1238

Vieux P.1238

even if it was a good view & commentaries. There still be less then nobody to watch it! Stop the dreaming…. & focus on making this a game….. a great game.

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Posted by: Mcrocha.3891

Mcrocha.3891

Why would you want to watch the matches. There is so much stuff happening on the screen that you can’t even tell what people are doing apart from general moves they make. That’s not fun to watch.

Local Charr Ruins Everything

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Posted by: posthumecaver.6473

posthumecaver.6473

Why would you want to watch the matches. There is so much stuff happening on the screen that you can’t even tell what people are doing apart from general moves they make. That’s not fun to watch.

Outside of watching what tactics top teams uses, whats brings it to you.

Do you see what combos the players are using, what are they dodging, what are they interrupting?

You just see fire works from 2 km away.

No thx u, for that I can watch peoples personal streams.

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Posted by: Mcrocha.3891

Mcrocha.3891

Why would you want to watch the matches. There is so much stuff happening on the screen that you can’t even tell what people are doing apart from general moves they make. That’s not fun to watch.

Outside of watching what tactics top teams uses, whats brings it to you.

Do you see what combos the players are using, what are they dodging, what are they interrupting?

You just see fire works from 2 km away.

No thx u, for that I can watch peoples personal streams.

I don’t even care what tactics the teams use because I know I would never use them since I never que with a team. So it’s all well and good that I can see a portal play or some interesting split, but it’s not like I would ever do that in a game myself.

Local Charr Ruins Everything

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Posted by: Vague Memory.2817

Vague Memory.2817

I think Anet are making a mistake concentrating on minority gameplay (Esports, raids, fractals) rather than in-game experience, mechanics and balance that affect everyone. At some point someone will realise what a waste of time and money it was.