Guild Wars 2

Some data about Meta during EU Pro League, enjoy:
1) team compositions
2) amulet breakdown by popularity
3) profession breakdown by popularity

• (?) = don’t know; xxx(?) = I think its xxx, but not sure about it

Match 1: Car Crashed vs Vermillion [0:2]

Car Crashed
-> Ranger, BM/Survi/Druid, Cele
-> Elementalist, Earth/Water/Tempest, Cele
-> Mesmer, Inspiration/Chaos/Chrono, Cele
-> Guardian, Virtues/Valor/DH, Marauder
-> Necromancer, Spite/SReaping/Reaper, Carrion

Vermillion
-> Necromancer, Spite/SReaping/Reaper, Cele
-> Elementalist, Earth/Water/Tempest, Cele
-> Ranger, Marksmenship/BM/Druid, Cele
-> Engineer, Inventions/Alchemy/Scrapper, Marauder
-> Revenant, Devastation/Retribution/Herald, Zerker, Shiro/Glynt

Match 2: More Guns Than Roses vs TCG [0:2]

More Guns Than Roses
-> Ranger, Survi/NatureMagic/Druid, Cele
-> Engineer, Inventions/Alchemy/Scrapper, Cele
-> Necromancer, Spite/SReaping/Reaper, Carrion
-> Guardian, Virtues/Valor/DH, Marauder
-> Revenant, (?)/(?)/(?), Shiro/Malyx, Wanderer

TCG
-> Mesmer, Inspiration/Chaos/Chrono, Cele
-> Elementalist, Earth/Water/Tempest, Cele
-> Necromancer, Spite/SReaping/Reaper, Cele
-> Engineer, Alchemy/Inventions/Scrapper Marauder
-> Revenant, Retribution/Corruption/Herald, Shiro/Malyx, Carrion

Match 3 : Orange Logo vs Chaotic Contingency [2:0]

Orange Logo
-> Engineer, Alchemy/Inventions/Scrapper , Marauder
-> Mesmer, Inspiration/Chaos/Chrono , Cele
-> Revenant, Retribution/Corruption/Herald, Shiro/Malyx, Viper
-> Revenant, Retribution/Corruption/Herald, Shiro/Malyx, Viper
-> Ranger, Marksmenship/BM/Druid, Valkyrie

Chaotic Contingency
-> Revenant, Devastation/Invocation/Herald , Shiro/Glynt , Zerker
-> Guardian, (?)/Valor(?)/DH , Marauder
-> Necromancer, Spite/SReaping/Reaper, Cele
-> Elementalist, Water/Earth/Tempest , Cele
-> Ranger, (?)/(?)/Druid, Cele

Match 4 : Rank 55 Dragons vs Purplse Noise [2:0]

Rank 55 Dragons
-> Revenant Corruption/Retribution/Herald, Malyx/Shiro, Viper
-> Revenant, Retribution/Invocation/Herald, Shiro/Glynt , Marauder
-> Mesmer, Domination, Dueling, Chrono, Marauder
-> Engineer, Alchemy/Inventions/Scrapper, Maruader
-> Ranger, NM/BM/Druid, Cele

Purple Noise
-> Elementalist, Arcane/Earth/Water, Cele
-> Engineer, Alchemy/Inventions/Scrapper, Maruader
-> Necromancer, Spite/SReaping/Reaper, Carrion
-> Mesmer, Chaos/Inspiration/Chrono, Cele
-> Elementalist, Water/Earth/Tempest, Cele

Celestial : 20
Marauder : 9
Carrion : 4
Viper : 3
Zerker : 2
Wanderer : 1
Valkyrie : 1

Revenant : 8
Engineer : 6
Elementalist : 6
Necromancer : 6
Ranger : 6
Mesmer : 5
Guardian : 3
Warrior : 0
Thief : 0

Saved stream: http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/27353500

How many seasons will anet need to get convinced that thieves and wars need help~

Now people will start to realize that DH is not OP as they think it is. It only works with pugs. Revenant has better mobility, utility, perma quickness and good damage too.

Cynz.9437:

How many seasons will anet need to get convinced that thieves and wars need help~

They let the meta go for a year and a half without a single Ranger team winning any tournament of note, good luck to you.

Also to OP, thanks for posting this, interesting to see the total stats

DH is getting heavly counter by aura share tempest that’s why

I just made a Cry-thread while you were typing this… thank you anyways…

Disappointing pro league to see the same teams winning and having blowout games. Was hoping to see new teams be more competitive than this at this level.

baroi.3264:

Now people will start to realize that DH is not OP as they think it is. It only works with pugs. Revenant has better mobility, utility, perma quickness and good damage too.

Yeah, and actually none of them took hammer… a weapon that trash tier players have been crying about for being “ridiculously OP”. Instead they were making use of unpopular weapons like mace and staff. And also alot of them were using condi amulets.

Celestial still way over represented. Will this ever change?

So winning teams were:

Revenant : 6
Engineer : 4
Elementalist : 2
Necromancer : 2
Ranger : 3
Mesmer : 3
Guardian : 0
Warrior : 0
Thief : 0

Right?

So every team who ran a Guardian lost….

Every winner team had at least 1 revenant.

Two teams out of four used double Rev…

3 out of four winner team had a druid (TCG is the exception).

This is all the pattern I realised.

@Vikkela:

My counting was the same…

I like TCG’s comp.

So is the prize pool not big enough to attract pro gamers? The ones anet wants to attract with a big twitch following.

infantrydiv.1620:

They let the meta go for a year and a half without a single Ranger team winning any tournament of note, good luck to you.

Winning is one thing – being played at all is another.

Warriors and Thieves are so absurdly far behind that no one even bothers.

Apparently this is the balance an esports game deserves.

Basically rev took thief spot, war is no good at anything.

This prize pool will never compete with real esports games. It will also never be as entertaining to watch and the pvp matchmaking system will never breed good players as long as it’s so strongly focused on premade teams being pogchamps which doesn’t let solo q players improve. They have a lot to learn.

warr/thief is the new ranger/necro

Revenant is the new Elementalist

Things are pretty balanced

So this viper shiro/mallyx rev build, is it really all that great? I havent been able to watch the matches yet, but it sounds glassy as kitten, though a hyper offensive condi hybrid is something this game has needed for years, instead of runniny cele hybrids that wind up being more defensive than anything else.

Morwath.9817:

Revenant : 8
Engineer : 6
Elementalist : 6
Necromancer : 6
Ranger : 6
Mesmer : 5
Guardian : 3

Let me correct something:

Herald: 8
Scrapper: 6
Tempast: 6
Reaper: 6
Druid: 6
Chronomancer: 5
Dragonhunter: 3

Remember when Colin J. said that the elite specializations are not going to be more powerful than the core lines, that they are a ‘sub’ class for each profession? Well it looks like he lied cos there are no non elite speced characters in this tournament because the elites ARE more powerful.

I wonder, if you guys would like to have site/blog with all the stuff about competitive side of GW2? With all the builds, replays and everything in one place?

@foste.3098
Honey played core elementalist (Water/Earth/Arcane).

Morwath.9817:

I wonder, if you guys would like to have site/blog with all the stuff about competitive side of GW2? With all the builds, replays and everything in one place?

To be honest, I’m surprised that with all this “esports” talk a site like that doesn’t exist already.

Seems kinda the bare minimum for a game that is trying to be competitive.

lighter.2708:

Basically rev took thief spot, war is no good at anything.

Which is ironic, as revenant was supposed to have “high in-combat mobility and very poor OOC mobility,” yet they have achieved nearly the same map mobility as a thief, but with better active defense to go with it. That is why thief is being pushed out of the meta for pvp.

That is a pretty big failure in design if you ask me, if you try to make something lacking in one regard, and that ends up being a massive strength.

Mooncow.6847:

Celestial still way over represented. Will this ever change?

People seem to choose it almost by rote, that mesmer build that I think all were running (Chaos, Insp, Chrono) would benefit more from another amulet type than cele IMO.

morrolan.9608:

Mooncow.6847:

Celestial still way over represented. Will this ever change?

People seem to choose it almost by rote, that mesmer build that I think all were running (Chaos, Insp, Chrono) would benefit more from another amulet type than cele IMO.

Yup, I think of three different amulets that would work better for that build than cele since it has virtually no condi pressure or heals that scale well with healing power.

This is a great OP, U should make a statistic after NA games too.

When the Developer nerfed a profession to the ground without proper explanation of the reasons why, they lose esport credibility and their game is not something you take seriously. Any developer with serious power issue is not an entity to be trusted. They more than eager to nerf a profession they are having trouble with playing against, and buff the profession they are currently playing than staying objective and find an honest and proper balance.

They don’t want Thieves in the tournament so they nerfed the profession to the ground — mission accomplished.

I Just can’t understand why they are making pro leagues with a completly gutted pvp.. This is just…non sense. Revenant’s can’t work outside of Herald. Berserker almost don’t exist, Thief is on deadline too… This really prove there priority, publicity for the game over pvp balance(maybe these 200 000 dollars can be invested in game for making him better or bugfixes?! No?). Well done. And now with pvp being almost exclusive to 6 classes on 9 there is no problem. The direction arena is going is really alarming. They just want to become Wow 2.0 with raids with trinity don’t make for that, esport, prioriting new players over veterans, don’t balancing pvp, rushed expansion(plenty of bugs, unfinished new class,only 3H of personnal story)… Yeah, the future seems bright.

PS: The new elite specs meta was ovious. We make more powerfull classes that only those who have purchased HOT can play= more money. Just a ugly marketing move. Maybe they are going to balance core and elite. But none since at last one year, when pretty much everyone has purchased the expansion.

Too much salt here

nearlight.3064:

So this viper shiro/mallyx rev build, is it really all that great? I havent been able to watch the matches yet, but it sounds glassy as kitten, though a hyper offensive condi hybrid is something this game has needed for years, instead of runniny cele hybrids that wind up being more defensive than anything else.

Actually I feel like a part of the reasons why revenants play condi is to be able to handle enemies condis (from the condi reaper mostly)…

If you look, we have for the first time an almost perfectly hybrid meta:

• 20 celestial: naturally hybrid
• 12 marauder + zerker + valkyrie = damage
• 8 carrion + viper + wanderer (is this still condi?) = hybrid/condi

Celestial : 20
Marauder : 9
Carrion : 4
Viper : 3
Zerker : 2
Wanderer : 1
Valkyrie : 1

Revenant : 8
Engineer : 6
Elementalist : 6
Necromancer : 6
Ranger : 6
Mesmer : 5
Guardian : 3
Warrior : 0
Thief : 0

A few thoughts: 1.) Dragon Hunter meta trapper was grossly overrated early on. 2.) Herlad is OP 3.) Scrapper has been the most under rated elite spec in pvp

Yeah and whenever a DH said…

“yeah traps might need a tweak and trueshot a bit less dmg/higher CD, BUT if you look at herald or scrapper…”

… everyone said we just want to keep our OP spec and we should just shut up, everyone knew how crazy OP DH is.

I stand by my point that more than half the classes need to be toned down again and DH is one of them, but not the most important.

Car Crashed builds so far.

Here’s what I can gather from it.

Everyone and their mum loses it if warrior and thief aren’t represented at all. Even though we’ve spent nearly 3 years where one has nearly always had a place on every team and the other has flip flopped between stack to the roof, mandatory or token cleanse/heal bot.

Here’s hoping the next big balance patch shakes it up and we see these two classes back, maybe guard and ele can take a time out from being meta?

apharma.3741:

Here’s what I can gather from it.

Everyone and their mum loses it if warrior and thief aren’t represented at all. Even though we’ve spent nearly 3 years where one has nearly always had a place on every team and the other has flip flopped between stack to the roof, mandatory or token cleanse/heal bot.

Here’s hoping the next big balance patch shakes it up and we see these two classes back, maybe guard and ele can take a time out from being meta?

We have people MAINING wars and thieves playing other classes in tourney… you don’t think it is alarming either?

apharma.3741:

Here’s what I can gather from it.

Everyone and their mum loses it if warrior and thief aren’t represented at all. Even though we’ve spent nearly 3 years where one has nearly always had a place on every team and the other has flip flopped between stack to the roof, mandatory or token cleanse/heal bot.

Here’s hoping the next big balance patch shakes it up and we see these two classes back, maybe guard and ele can take a time out from being meta?

Or you know, we could have a “balanced” meta where every single class has one or more viable builds for all levels of play.

It’s no fun when 1 or 2 classes suck eggs and the rest are either overpowered or in a good spot.

Morwath.9817:

I wonder, if you guys would like to have site/blog with all the stuff about competitive side of GW2? With all the builds, replays and everything in one place?

That would be absolutely fantastic. It is hugely surprising that this doesn’t already exist. The fact that there isn’t a website that records all the build is a travesty.

Morwath,

Thank you for this post. It’s clear, fact-based, and says a lot of things that should be said in a very constructive and convincing way.

Morwath.9817:

I wonder, if you guys would like to have site/blog with all the stuff about competitive side of GW2? With all the builds, replays and everything in one place?

YES! I have really missed being able to find tournament builds. I don’t get much time to sit and watch tourneys and it’s been…1-2 years since I’ve seen any reliable source keep track of this (pretty much since MetaBattle), but I really liked seeing the diversity and variations in builds from tournaments, rather than just one agreed upon build that’s a generalization of what tourny builds were ran.

nearlight.3064:

So this viper shiro/mallyx rev build, is it really all that great? I havent been able to watch the matches yet, but it sounds glassy as kitten, though a hyper offensive condi hybrid is something this game has needed for years, instead of runniny cele hybrids that wind up being more defensive than anything else.

It’s good, but you have to understand it and play well, as with most Mallyx setups. You have way less butt-saving defensives than Power Shiro/Glint and Energy matters more.

The good things about Condition Revenant is that it’s quite mobile and especially with boon duration runes (Durability which also have good passive proc for teamfights), Resistance uptime can get really high, nullifying Reapers. The more people you have around to PA from, the more powerful against conditions it gets. It also brings Resistance for teammates and disabling conditions entirely for short period is awesome (no blinds, chills, immobs etc.).
It also brings powerful PvP conditions – fast-stacking AoE Torment, Poison, a lot of Confusion. These shutdown Power Revenants in no time – Mallyx Rev is perfect counter to Power Rev.

It can be vulnerable to CC shutdowns and I consider it well-balanced. Has both clear strenghts and weaknesss.

As a bonus, there are various cool plays with some skills and combos – Resistance on downed body disables Poison, can let you safestomp Necromancers 1v1 and avoid downed Slow from Revenants, you can increase duration of Resistance/Protection with Facet of Nature. Haven’t seen many of these plays from top players in tournament yet, room for improvement.

In general, it plays like more squishier, mobile and aggressive version of Celestial Mallyx. A lot of fun and more depth than Power Rev.

I think I will just put all builds in this thread now, then I should work on some site to put them on…

Varmilion builds:
*Ele amulet and rune weren’t shown on the stream, but it was easy to figure looking on HP.

@Cynz, I just don’t care tbh either way. Don’t you find it alarming that for nearly 3 years straight thief was mandatory on nearly all top tier teams? I’m a lot more alarmed at that and the way ANet have allowed that to happen and introduced 0 other roles or playstyles for thieves.

@Nearlight, sure would love to see all classes represented equally but I’m just not bothered by classes that have spent years solidly in meta in one way or another suddenly not being meta for what will be 2-3 months(?) till the next big balance patch. Sure if these classes hadn’t been top picks for every team for so long I’d feel different but they have for a very very long time.

Lets not forget the years of rangers and necros not being meta at all or that mesmer had to have a whole team built around it and even then spent more time running for their lives from one class than being able to play for over a year too.

Vikkela.7261:

So winning teams were:

Revenant : 6
Engineer : 4
Elementalist : 2
Necromancer : 2
Ranger : 3
Mesmer : 3
Guardian : 0
Warrior : 0
Thief : 0

Right?

Yup, looking at the winning teams is the right approach.

Basically, to win, get Rev, Engi, Chrono, and Druid.

Yeah I get that, I get that.

Also, I’m very surprised about the amount of teleosts running torrents. They must almost never be able to get off overloads.

Won’t The Abjured still be running thief?

apharma.3741:

I just don’t care tbh either way. Don’t you find it alarming that for nearly 3 years straight thief was mandatory on nearly all top tier teams? I’m a lot more alarmed at that and the way ANet have allowed that to happen and introduced 0 other roles or playstyles for thieves.

So you’d rather have a class with close to zero roles instead of a single important one?

apharma.3741:

sure would love to see all classes represented equally but I’m just not bothered by classes that have spent years solidly in meta in one way or another suddenly not being meta for what will be 2-3 months(?) till the next big balance patch. Sure if these classes hadn’t been top picks for every team for so long I’d feel different but they have for a very very long time.

Sorry, but if you feel better about Warrs and Thieves being outside the meta simply because they’ve been popular classes in the past, that’s just Schadenfreude.
Players shouldn’t be punished for the previous balance that was created by the devs.
And who says they’ll be in this state for only 2-3 months? Many of their problems aren’t superficial and could need a sizeable rework to make them viable again.

apharma.3741:

Lets not forget the years of rangers and necros not being meta at all or that mesmer had to have a whole team built around it and even then spent more time running for their lives from one class than being able to play for over a year too.

I think I can speak for everyone (being a longtime Necro player as well) that those situations shouldn’t repeat themselves simply because Ranger and Necro had big problems in the past. Precedents don’t make this ok, for any profession.

More Guns than Roses builds
*Guard amulet and rune weren’t shown on the stream, it’s more or less speculation based on replay.

Wow NA Pro league just started and Final Form using 2 druids and 2 chronos.

@morrolan.9608
I will post some NA stats after NA Pro League.

TCG builds:

Zeghart.9841:

apharma.3741:

sure would love to see all classes represented equally but I’m just not bothered by classes that have spent years solidly in meta in one way or another suddenly not being meta for what will be 2-3 months(?) till the next big balance patch. Sure if these classes hadn’t been top picks for every team for so long I’d feel different but they have for a very very long time.

Sorry, but if you feel better about Warrs and Thieves being outside the meta simply because they’ve been popular classes in the past, that’s just Schadenfreude.
Players shouldn’t be punished for the previous balance that was created by the devs.
And who says they’ll be in this state for only 2-3 months? Many of their problems aren’t superficial and could need a sizeable rework to make them viable again.

apharma.3741:

Lets not forget the years of rangers and necros not being meta at all or that mesmer had to have a whole team built around it and even then spent more time running for their lives from one class than being able to play for over a year too.

I think I can speak for everyone (being a longtime Necro player as well) that those situations shouldn’t repeat themselves simply because Ranger and Necro had big problems in the past. Precedents don’t make this ok, for any profession.

I agree. Coming from playing ele, who have been top dog…to complete trash for a year…just to be made top dog again, nobody should have to endure being so bad that people will ask you to just switch. It kinda kills the game for them. Besides guardian, every class at this point has had a chance to ride the bench (and recent tourneys are suggesting guard might be headed there). It is quite sad that they can’t balance the game…and refuse to make changes more often than 1x every 6 months while players languish in terrible metas dominated by stupid power-creep.

Every time Anet makes an adjustment, it is just buff…buff…buff, and it leaves behind everything but the top build for each class that is happen to be made viable. There are so many worthless skills and traits among every class that are that way just because power creep has left them in the dust. It kills build diversity and fun quite a bit.

Can we repost this stuff whenever one of those annoying anti-DH threads pop up?