Guild Wars 2

apharma.3741:

Jana.6831:

At least mesmers, partly guards, eles have got passive invulnerabilities – so it’s not in their hands when to “spam them”. Oh and scrapper – constantly invulnerable.

You’ve said this before. In the interests of staying constructive is there any chance you can list these passive invulnerabilities, especially the ones that are not in their hands?

I’m interesting in this as well. I would like to know what you define as passive and as an invulnerability.

apharma.3741:

Jana.6831:

At least mesmers, partly guards, eles have got passive invulnerabilities – so it’s not in their hands when to “spam them”. Oh and scrapper – constantly invulnerable.

You’ve said this before. In the interests of staying constructive is there any chance you can list these passive invulnerabilities, especially the ones that are not in their hands?

I already did before – not really in the mood to look up all traits again.
I guess go to metabuilds and have a look at the most popular mesmer build and then you will find it – my backstab never hits as mesmers are almost constantly invulnerable.

Edit: it’s the first and second minor in the chaos line

Jana.6831:

apharma.3741:

Jana.6831:

At least mesmers, partly guards, eles have got passive invulnerabilities – so it’s not in their hands when to “spam them”. Oh and scrapper – constantly invulnerable.

You’ve said this before. In the interests of staying constructive is there any chance you can list these passive invulnerabilities, especially the ones that are not in their hands?

Edit: it’s the first and second minor in the chaos line

Wat. Regen and protection are hardly considered passive invulnerability.

So what if chronomancer can chain together sword evades, shield block and evade well for a while, they tend to melt to focus fire once those cooldowns are all up.

nearlight.3064:

Wat. Regen and protection are hardly considered passive invulnerability.

Sure – it’s very active “Yo, I stay here and take one hit to proc it! I’m working for it!!”

Jana.6831:

nearlight.3064:

Wat. Regen and protection are hardly considered passive invulnerability.

Sure – it’s very active “Yo, I stay here and take one hit to proc it! I’m working for it!!”

You do know that thief has a adept trait that works similar and arguably better then those two minors combined right?…

lighter.2708:

Jana.6831:

nearlight.3064:

Wat. Regen and protection are hardly considered passive invulnerability.

Sure – it’s very active “Yo, I stay here and take one hit to proc it! I’m working for it!!”

You do know that thief has a adept trait that works similar and arguably better then those two minors combined right?…

Tell me about it – please =)
Come on, I did the work and looked it up – look it up for me.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability
So an Invuln means no damage is taken at all either from conditions or power.
As you can see Mesmer has 1 Invuln from the Distortion Shatter, an ability that the user must actively use to get the effect from. It is not passive like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Self-Regulating_Defenses which self procs when health reaches a certain threshold.
Distortion is on a 50 second cooldown and gives 1 second of invuln per Illusion shattered.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blur
We also have Blur, which is an Evade from attacks. If we have conditions applied when its activated we still take that damage. We also take Retaliation damage from attacking under Blur. But we only get it from Blurred Frenzy and the new Well of Precognition.
Blurred Frenzy is on a 12 second cd but we are rooted and still can take damage. WoPrecop leaves us running inside the well(might as well be rooted) to get the full 3 second duration of the blur and stability stacks and is on a 45 second cd.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge
Then we have plain dodges which as you know cant as an evade and any DoT still ticks while dodging.

Now for mesmers, we can self apply alacrity and shorten those cd’s and in certain builds it can be substantial lengths, however, each skill requires the user to point and click an AoE, shatter and lose DPS from illusions depending on their shatter rotation and traits, or use a rootable skill that has dual purpose and can kill them in one go if the other person pops retal.

As for the other classes, Guardian has to use his elite for invuln, gets some passive Aegis(1 block per Aegis? Yeah ok), a heal skill that blocks(anything thats unblockable screws that up same for mesmer shield) list goes on. Very little of the invulns are actually passive and require something to be given up or a lengthy cd.

And really, how is https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metaphysical_Rejuvenation and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metaphysical_Rejuvenation a passive invul? They are passive yes, no more passive than a thief losing condi’s in stealth but not Invulns.

Come on, lighter answer me here – don’t whisper me.

Jana.6831:

lighter.2708:

Jana.6831:

nearlight.3064:

Wat. Regen and protection are hardly considered passive invulnerability.

Sure – it’s very active “Yo, I stay here and take one hit to proc it! I’m working for it!!”

You do know that thief has a adept trait that works similar and arguably better then those two minors combined right?…

Tell me about it – please =)
Come on, I did the work and looked it up – look it up for me.

it’s called Pain Response, if you really didn’t know…do you really play thief…

and yea, i won’t bother myself with you anymore, as someone who avoids direct contact and arguments..there’s just no point.

Jace al Thor.6745:

And really, how is https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metaphysical_Rejuvenation and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metaphysical_Rejuvenation a passive invul? They are passive yes, no more passive than a thief losing condi’s in stealth but not Invulns.

I said the first and second minor, which are:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metaphysical_Rejuvenation
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Membrane

Get it now?
Both of them work together.

lighter.2708:

it’s called Pain Response, if you really didn’t know…do you really play thief…

and yea, i won’t bother myself with you anymore, as someone who avoids direct contact and arguments..there’s just no point.

I think I already answere this, actually I already said it in the post you all quoted – and yes, please don’t bother with me anymore

Jana.6831:

Jace al Thor.6745:

And really, how is https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metaphysical_Rejuvenation and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metaphysical_Rejuvenation a passive invul? They are passive yes, no more passive than a thief losing condi’s in stealth but not Invulns.

I said the first and second minor, which are:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metaphysical_Rejuvenation
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Membrane

Get it now?
Both of them work together.

Hehe copied the same thing twice GG on me.
But still. One gives Regen( thats scales horrible on mesmer) and the other gives Protection(-33% damage reduction which is NOT A INVULN).
Yes they work well together, but they dont prevent you from doing damage like you keep insisting. Nothing in those two traits in an Invuln or other full damage negating ability. A guard or ele can get better protection upkeep than a mesmer without trying yet two traits, both with 12 Second Internal Cooldowns, is what you complaining about? And you can get double Consume Plasma from the same mesmer? Seriously?

You’re right, then I don’t know what this bubble is that mesmers almost constantlyy have around them – but really: I can’t land a backstab and since they often don’t even know I’m there that thing is definitively passive.

Edit: And yes, I’m complaining about all passively applied invulnerabilities, no matter the class, except it’s once per “fight” and with a reasonable cooldown (something at 25 or 50% health – depending the class) – Guards are a bit different as it’s blocks that’s their “thing”. Mesmers now have invisibility, blocks, invulnerabilities, protection, passive regen and their clones – GG.
It wasn’t my goal to single out a class – that’s what you guys did.

Jana.6831:

You’re right, then I don’t know what this bubble is that mesmers almost constantlyy have around them – but really: I can’t land a backstab and since they often don’t even know I’m there that thing is definitively passive.

The bubble is most likely the channeled shield block. I’m not sure what their can use that’s unblockable, but dragonhunter and revenant and reaper can attack and CC through it no problem.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chaos_Armor.

Big purple, glowy thing. Yeah mesmers get it from Etheral fields by either A) blasting it(LOL), Leap finishers(Got a couple of them) and there is one on Staff. Its the number 4 skill.
But its not an invuln, if you look at its ability its a RNG based condi/boon giver. We get a boon when you hit us, you get a condi. If you get blind then your attack misses. However, its hard to have a high chaos armor up time since the armor it self doesnt stack intensity or have long durations.

No, it’s a different bubble, it’s just as big as their upper body.

ETA: If I see an mesmer who hasn’t seen me and attack him – bubble – so it must be something that’s always up.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Echo_of_Memory?
You mean the shield block?

Jace al Thor.6745:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Echo_of_Memory?
You mean the shield block?

No, mesmers are doing this since June, they never did it before – and this (skill you linked) has to be activated but they basically have aegis like guards – I think with the last mesmer I also used dancing dagger to remove the bubble, just like guard’s aegis.

ETA: And really, all mesmers have this when I first hit them (unless they’ve already been in fight for a while) – they often don’t know I’m even there so it has to be a passively applied invulnerability which renews itself during the fight though.

I just want to say Jana, this is getting ridiculously off-topic. No wonder anet can’t take these forums as a serious institution of balance.

I don’t think that is my fault actually.
My inital comment was about why no thieves and warriors were on the teams and I tried to explain it from my view – that’s when the mesmer discussion started.

ETA: @ Jace: I’m trying to figure this out with a friend of mine, either him against a mes pro or us 1 vs 1 in pvp- at some point someone will see a bubble

Yeah Ive no idea as to what you are refering. It could be that the mesmer you are facing are running Signet of Inspiration which can proc Aegis on them randomly along with Swiftness. However, we don’t have a trait or skill that gives out aegis like passively other than that one Signet. And you’d know if they had the signet because it shows up under the health bar.
And it started being widely used after the June 23rd patch when it gave 5 seconds of guaranteed swiftness along with the bonus boon. Thats the only thing it could be. Otherwise I would have to ask you get a video of what you are seeing so I could visually see it myself and at that point would be able to identify what they are using possibly and give further advice.

Why almost every single thread has to have someone who nonstop complains about thief’s situation?Even warriors who have it worse atm don’t spam that much.We get it.Thieves don’t do well in sPvP.But spamming every single thread about that just becomes annoying.You know how Anet works.They buff/nerf once every 9 years with or without spam on forums.

Actually I was asking about all the classes Jana mentioned not just mesmers. I mean I get all the blocks and elixer S procs especially with old vamp runes on engineers but eles don’t have a lot of invuln auto procs.

I brought up mesmer because its what I know the most about and was trying to make my point that way.
But I did contribute to derailing the thread, however, we as a community can’t randomly say X has too much of this or that and be talking about some miracle build that involves all the trait lines being fulled traited.
A dev reads that and probably wonders what we’re smoking and once enough people start making the accusations they nerf something into the ground when only minor balances need to take place.
As it stands right now the new meta is probably still evolving. We havent had a major balance patch yet and goodness, two mesmers on one team? 2 years ago, heck 8 months ago if you’d said that to me or any mesmer main we’d have laughed so hard we’d busted a gut as we told you yeah right.
That doesnt mean theres still some polishing that needs done, but small steps are better than big ones so less QQ more positive reinforcement eh?

You’re right, that’s why I felt bad that I couldn’t figure out what that trait/skill? was – but a friend of mine noticed it too but he also mains a thief, so he doesn’t know what it is either.
My ele has got a near constant shield on her when she switches attunements: fire shield, earth protection shield, air shield or air daze/stun. On top of that active shields with at least D/D.
I can just say that it’s very hard to hit enemies since June. And it seems logical that it had to happen as before you could only chose 2 full trait lines, now you’ve got 3 – so a lot of the nice stuff is now “availlable multiple times”.
The enemies I could still kill from June on were mostly necros who have no real protection.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Cynz.9437:

How many seasons will anet need to get convinced that thieves and wars need help~

Thief in every team for about 3 years and not a word from you. Now all of a sudden this is a travesty :P

Karma.

Careful that karma doesn’t come back to bite you in the kitten … Will you say karma then?

Zero Day.2594:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Cynz.9437:

How many seasons will anet need to get convinced that thieves and wars need help~

Thief in every team for about 3 years and not a word from you. Now all of a sudden this is a travesty :P

Karma.

Careful that karma doesn’t come back to bite you in the kitten … Will you say karma then?

Whats your point? His logic was that thief was never overpowered even when it was required in every team for about 2 years. Now its not represented this means its underpowered?

Well I go by the previous logic that whether thieves are in teams means nothing.

As I said. karma

Only elite specs

Zero Day.2594:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Cynz.9437:

How many seasons will anet need to get convinced that thieves and wars need help~

Thief in every team for about 3 years and not a word from you. Now all of a sudden this is a travesty :P

Karma.

Careful that karma doesn’t come back to bite you in the kitten … Will you say karma then?

don’t feed him

warriors suck still oh time to go back to real life

everytime somone says " war sucks" these guys should remember how ranger sucked , so get over it and reroll, maybe war will be usefull in half a year , do you guys honestly think there wil be a time where a class wont suck major balls compared to the rest ? if YOU main the class that currently sucks , though luck , reroll and wait for buff and think of the poor rangres, how long they were useless

Jumanji.8724:

warriors suck still oh time to go back to real life

They have a pretty good reddit community:

https://www.reddit.com/r/outside

Sekai.2987:

everytime somone says " war sucks" these guys should remember how ranger sucked , so get over it and reroll, maybe war will be usefull in half a year , do you guys honestly think there wil be a time where a class wont suck major balls compared to the rest ? if YOU main the class that currently sucks , though luck , reroll and wait for buff and think of the poor rangres, how long they were useless

Nobody says it was ok that rangers were just ok in yoloq and nowhere else. Good balance is when every class has at least 1 viable build in pvp that is also desired for teams. Yeah, we can wait, we can reroll , quit game etc. is it ok though? Let’s just all quit game and wait. Great suggestion~

Cynz.9437:

Sekai.2987:

everytime somone says " war sucks" these guys should remember how ranger sucked , so get over it and reroll, maybe war will be usefull in half a year , do you guys honestly think there wil be a time where a class wont suck major balls compared to the rest ? if YOU main the class that currently sucks , though luck , reroll and wait for buff and think of the poor rangres, how long they were useless

Nobody says it was ok that rangers were just ok in yoloq and nowhere else. Good balance is when every class has at least 1 viable build in pvp that is also desired for teams. Yeah, we can wait, we can reroll , quit game etc. is it ok though? Let’s just all quit game and wait. Great suggestion~

Yeh but you proved that team composition means nothing for the last two years when you claimed thief was balanced or bad despite being required in every pvp team. So these stats mean nothing by your very logic.

It is early anyway. Anet should let the meta settle for another 6 months and then make some changes to amulets rather than to certain classes

Since this thread is still pretty offtopic:
I’m not sure if aegis would be a guardian shield on mesmers, otherwise that really could be the tiny bubble I mean.
I stood around with my mesmer yesterday. She had the signet of inspiration and also the chaos line and would randomly gain aegis for 11,5s – so that really could be what I mean – and whenever she got swiftness and regen she also got protection (3 boons on her: swiftness, regen, protection) – maybe that’s a bit too much tbh. 11,5s aegis possibly every 10 seconds (although it did not renew itself while I watched it = every 20s), -33% of damage possibly every 10-15s at any time with a higher chance when below 75% (signet and minor).
Yes, I should pay more attention to the boons on my target. Anyway, my point still stands; too much passively applied protection since June on a lot of classes.

What is the counter to condi rev?

Urejt.5648:

What is the counter to condi rev?

cc – even with stability he will need to use endurance and energy to gain it back
direct dmg – to pressure him to play defense
range weapon etc…
condi cleanse

Jana.6831:

Since this thread is still pretty offtopic:
I’m not sure if aegis would be a guardian shield on mesmers, otherwise that really could be the tiny bubble I mean.
I stood around with my mesmer yesterday. She had the signet of inspiration and also the chaos line and would randomly gain aegis for 11,5s – so that really could be what I mean – and whenever she got swiftness and regen she also got protection (3 boons on her: swiftness, regen, protection) – maybe that’s a bit too much tbh. 11,5s aegis possibly every 10 seconds (although it did not renew itself while I watched it = every 20s), -33% of damage possibly every 10-15s at any time with a higher chance when below 75% (signet and minor).
Yes, I should pay more attention to the boons on my target. Anyway, my point still stands; too much passively applied protection since June on a lot of classes.

Aegis looks the same on everyone, it’s the same shield icon on all classes.

Signet of inspiration grants 5s of swiftness and then a random boon every 10s usually for 5s. It can be any boon except swiftness, quickness and resistance as far as I know. It is extremely random though so it’s not like mesmers are running around with aegis, protection and regen up most of the time. It is however used a lot actively in small groups for gives excessive amounts of long duration boons.

Chaos is a popular line for roaming mesmers because of PU. There are 2 minors, one granting 10s of regen when struck below 75% and the other granting 3s of protection when you get regen, both with a 15s ICD.

I just don’t see why you singled out mesmer for passive invulns almost immediately when you have classes (including thief if you pick them) have similar auto procs some of which are much stronger. I know warriors aren’t in a great state but them and engineers are the masters of auto proc save me kitten.

Urejt.5648:

What is the counter to condi rev?

Depends, if not Viper, Dimond Skin.

Urejt.5648:

What is the counter to condi rev?

Condi transfers and boon corruption ;-)

Morwath.9817:

Urejt.5648:

What is the counter to condi rev?

Condi transfers and getting lucky with boon corruption rng ;-)

fixed.

Urejt.5648:

What is the counter to condi rev?

It’s weak to condis when not in Mallyx, no stunbreaks, rather weak against direct damage and kiting in Mallyx. Very reliant on resistance uptime, make him swap out of Mallyx with good direct damage or CC pressure, corrupt resistance and watch him melt.

Unblockable CC such as necro’s staff 5 or warhorn 4 can easily ruin his day interrupting his passive and active shield blocks.

apharma.3741:

Signet of inspiration grants 5s of swiftness and then a random boon every 10s usually for 5s. It can be any boon except swiftness, quickness and resistance as far as I know.

Yes, it can be any boon of those listed and it’s always swiftness – I tried it and got aegis ~every third time for 11.5 seconds. And maybe it also affects what boons you already have, so if you’re below 70% and have already regen and protection you rather get a new boon on top of that, which would be retaliaton or aegis likely – Just stand around with your mesmer for a while.

apharma.3741:

It is extremely random though so it’s not like mesmers are running around with aegis, protection and regen up most of the time. It is however used a lot actively in small groups for gives excessive amounts of long duration boons.

See above – and see what I wrote in my last post.

apharma.3741:

Chaos is a popular line for roaming mesmers because of PU. There are 2 minors, one granting 10s of regen when struck below 75% and the other granting 3s of protection when you get regen, both with a 15s ICD.

I just don’t see why you singled out mesmer for passive invulns almost immediately when you have classes (including thief if you pick them) have similar auto procs some of which are much stronger. I know warriors aren’t in a great state but them and engineers are the masters of auto proc save me kitten.

Thanks for repeating everything again
I singled it out because you bug me about “mesmers have no protection let alone passively appield” each time you see me mentioning mesmers (and others) invulnerabilities.
I get that no one wants their class to be nerfed but if you read my last post and this one and also remember that mesmers have got passively applied protection/invulnerability/aegis on a very low cooldown, their clones, portals, shadowstep, invisibility, active protection – when should I hit them?

I hope someday you’ll get my point – it’s not against mesmers per se but against all the passively applied invulnerabilities and OP skills that “one shot” with one press of a button.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Zero Day.2594:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Cynz.9437:

How many seasons will anet need to get convinced that thieves and wars need help~

Thief in every team for about 3 years and not a word from you. Now all of a sudden this is a travesty :P

Karma.

Careful that karma doesn’t come back to bite you in the kitten … Will you say karma then?

Whats your point? His logic was that thief was never overpowered even when it was required in every team for about 2 years. Now its not represented this means its underpowered?

Well I go by the previous logic that whether thieves are in teams means nothing.

As I said. karma

Actually I think you’ve missed a lot of what’s been going on with thieves for the past 2 years. At least for what feels like over a year now, thieves have been talking about the only reason that they really stayed in meta was mobility and +1. You could say the only reason they were still relevant was their PvE performance. It wasn’t overpowered in a PvP sense when fighting players. Thieves (and even other classes) have been talking about the shrinking single role for a while now, and now they don’t even excel at that. True Karma, by the way you’re using it, would have been the loss of mobility with the change to being a true threat in 1v1 and teamfight scenarios.

No! They somehow spotted that mace rev makes for some pretty sweet damage (and condi too). It’s very fun to play- revs can throw condis out like confetti and it gets hard to cleanse very fast if you’re facing a lot of condi players.

Jana.6831:

Yes, it can be any boon of those listed and it’s always swiftness – I tried it and got aegis ~every third time for 11.5 seconds. And maybe it also affects what boons you already have, so if you’re below 70% and have already regen and protection you rather get a new boon on top of that, which would be retaliaton or aegis likely – Just stand around with your mesmer for a while.

No it doesn’t, it does exactly what it says on the tin, random boon, you can already have that boon and it just extends the duration or adds to the stack in the case of might as normal for boons.

There is no magical way to guarantee you get one you want.

Jana.6831:

Thanks for repeating everything again
I singled it out because you bug me about “mesmers have no protection let alone passively appield” each time you see me mentioning mesmers (and others) invulnerabilities.
I get that no one wants their class to be nerfed but if you read my last post and this one and also remember that mesmers have got passively applied protection/invulnerability/aegis on a very low cooldown, their clones, portals, shadowstep, invisibility, active protection – when should I hit them?

I hope someday you’ll get my point – it’s not against mesmers per se but against all the passively applied invulnerabilities and OP skills that “one shot” with one press of a button.

I didn’t bug you about mesmers, I asked about what “passive Invulnerabilities” you were talking about and asked you to list them. You made it about mesmers, I was meaning the list of classes you mentioned, guards, eles and scrappers you listed with mesmers. I do have to chuckle at you not mentioning one of the kings of auto procs, Warriors, in that list.

Please find me a post where I have ever said mesmers have no access to protection. I have said they have no passive invulnerabilites and it is for the most part true. The only time you can get that is by taking the extremely non meta and bottom of the pile blurred inscriptions trait with illusionary inspiration which still has a cast time of the phantasm, usually 1s.

I think I can safely say I will never get your point because half the stuff you complain about is on the thief class and not exactly on bad trait lines (-25% damage reduction in stealth, lots of teleports, blinds, perma protection, regen, swiftness and good access to aegis if fighting Mesmer, instant cool down recharge randomly) and the other half is a gross exaggeration to put it mildly.

Apharma, I dont think anything will be accomplished by this. There is a clear misunderstanding as what an Invulnerability is versus a one time block that can be easily ignored or stripped via an autoattack.

Signet of Inspiration has always provided random boon generation every 10 seconds, it was buffed in June to provide guaranteed Swiftness for 5 seconds every 10, a very needed and desired QoL improvement for mesmers. Nothing else on it was changed. Just because you got Aegis a couple times isn’t that impressive. It is one passive block with a chance to proc out of a boon pool of 7 other boons. The mesmer can also run Prismatic Understanding and have another RnG based chance of getting Aegis, or stand in Chaos Storm. That is all.
If you are playing a thief, mesmer, or any other kind of burst class its your responsibility to make sure that your opponent does not have defensive boons on before you land you burst.
If you are bursting into Aegis then that is your own fault and another matter entirely. As it stands Ive listed the different types of invulns mesmer has, and linked the page to where you can find a list for other classes invulns. Please learn the difference between that and a block, evade, or defensive boon.

If compare them side by side, EU meta is far more refined and optimized than NA. Why NA had more thieves than engineers, I’ll never know.

Jace al Thor.6745:

Apharma, I dont think anything will be accomplished by this. There is a clear misunderstanding as what an Invulnerability is versus a one time block that can be easily ignored or stripped via an autoattack.

Signet of Inspiration has always provided random boon generation every 10 seconds, it was buffed in June to provide guaranteed Swiftness for 5 seconds every 10, a very needed and desired QoL improvement for mesmers. Nothing else on it was changed. Just because you got Aegis a couple times isn’t that impressive. It is one passive block with a chance to proc out of a boon pool of 7 other boons. The mesmer can also run Prismatic Understanding and have another RnG based chance of getting Aegis, or stand in Chaos Storm. That is all.
If you are playing a thief, mesmer, or any other kind of burst class its your responsibility to make sure that your opponent does not have defensive boons on before you land you burst.
If you are bursting into Aegis then that is your own fault and another matter entirely. As it stands Ive listed the different types of invulns mesmer has, and linked the page to where you can find a list for other classes invulns. Please learn the difference between that and a block, evade, or defensive boon.

My “Autoattack” is backstab, please just try thief to see how much work goes into a backstab which I can’t land if there’s aegis.
And all this kitten is applied passively and no one has to think – and you guys don’t even know about all this stuff, you probably just wonder how you get out of situations you shouldn’t win.

ETA: And altapharma: Thief has got no protection. The only half protection is the -25% while stealthed (when traited). (ETA²: True, with the expansion we also have a block) Our means to be stealthed for a longer time = making use of it is usually SR though which is a gigantic red circle one can spam Aoe into = I need damage reduction while in there anyway. For the rest: Please read your post history and my posts – and with “reading” I mean “reading” as you accuse me of things I never said as you obviously didn’t read what I wrote.

I have no idea what they did to mesmer – I just know that I can’t hit them anymore because they’re always invulnerable to the hit I want to land – and I don’t want to switch to SB4 just because their passive kitten just decided to give them aegis while I’m already about to backstab – I can’t avoid that.

You’re right I don’t know what I’m talking about because I forgot to mention that traited signets give 1 second of blur. /sarcasm.
But I doubt you even knew that you just blame everything on passive skills when in reality it’s not.
Signed of Inspiration was a huge QoL change for Mesmer because at the time it gave us a passive speed boost(which everyone but guardian now has). It was in the patch notes just FYI.

And I love the go play thief response. I do, I don’t have this miracle problem of not being able to kill a Mesmer. But there again, I unlike you, apparently pay attention to the buffs my opponents have. I have seen some very stupid things done by thieves lately, running into activated DH traps, trying to face tank reapers, etc so your response doesn’t surprise me I guess.

Realistically, not counting the addition of shield and Well of Precog, Mesmer hasn’t gotten more damage mitigation skills/abilities than they had. Chrono introduced the shield block which is giving every low tier player I meet problems because they’re constantly attacking the block. The well is only 3 seconds on a… 40-45 seconds cd? I’m on a mobile and can’t look atm. The new F5 doesn’t really count as a mitigation ability.

That said, with these abilities already previously in game, all I’m seeing is you are upset of can 2 shot most mesmers anymore and actually have to fight them.
Does that mean thief doesnt need a buff? No, I would agree with Cynz that thief needs a buff, however we probably would disagree in the how. But everything you keep saying Jana has already been countered or explained.