Guild Wars 2

The double standard is just AMAZING. I don’t understand why NA gets crap when they use cheese to win and then EU is hailed superior when they do cheesy BS. And when NA uses non-cheesy comps they’re behind the meta while EU are heroes when they do non-cheesy comps.

Cheese is fair game when $25,000 is on the line. I’m surprised the community is still devolving instead of evolving at this point.

Amir.1570:

The double standard is just AMAZING. I don’t understand why NA gets crap when they use cheese to win and then EU is hailed superior when they do cheesy BS. And when NA uses non-cheesy comps they’re behind the meta while EU are heroes when they do non-cheesy comps.

Cheese is fair game when $25,000 is on the line. I’m surprised the community is still devolving instead of evolving at this point.

cheese doesn’t necessarily correlate with skill.

There’s the issue, people assume that because someone uses a “cheesy” meta build that they are noobs and lack skill. Honestly, since when is it a bad thing to use a build that is effective in a certain area? The fact that these guys are playing at this level says enough about the fact that they have skill (talking about tournament stuff). If anything, they are even smarter for going with a build that is guaranteed to be effective in their situation rather than risking their entire competition to try something that isn’t meta just to appease the whiners on the forums.

well NA played cheese builds cheese comp ,, but its not thier problem
if EU over confident and play mesmer thief comp against that kind of setup
they know they will face that comp at the end and they could do somthing about it
so we cant blame NA on it ..
gz NA strong players , good play from both sides

NA’s comp isn’t really that cheesy. Its just rather boring to watch, and it would probably be even stronger if Noscoc was still on the team instead of one Engi.

That said, yes, a large part of the reason why Abjured won is because Ele, and to some degree Engi, are both overtuned right now. However, I also didn’t see TCG truly bring their A game, and Helseth/Sizer didn’t seem coordinated very well.

Indeed, I was looking forward to the match between Abjured and TCG as I had been rooting for both of those teams in their respective regions all through the tournament up until the final match.

Having played against all these rough boiz at one time or another, I can say for sure that there are some ridiculously good players on both sides. Both comps are fine, although the EU one certainly requires super crisp rotations to pull off. The difference here is that RIP practiced the heck out of themselves and really wanted to win, and they did. Great mechanical players with a bunch of practice equals a formidable opponent indeed. Well played!

Amir.1570:

The double standard is just AMAZING. I don’t understand why NA gets crap when they use cheese to win and then EU is hailed superior when they do cheesy BS. And when NA uses non-cheesy comps they’re behind the meta while EU are heroes when they do non-cheesy comps.

Cheese is fair game when $25,000 is on the line. I’m surprised the community is still devolving instead of evolving at this point.

Define “cheese”?

Cheese is a term poor players use to attempt to be insulting and accusatory when they lose. There is no such thing as a cheese build, a cheese comp, or any of that stuff.

Definition of “Cheese” in GW2 – Term used to incorrectly imply I keep losing, but am better them my opponent, in order to make me feel better about the fact that I am a lesser skilled player, or made mistakes in the fight, and lost.

They all fought within the rules set of the game. All teams did.. Only the jealous and insecure attempt to take away from that with unoriginal buzz words.

This wts was honestly just a classic case of egomania becoming too much. EU has been going years of firmly believing they are vastly superior to NA and tcg just didn’t practice nor care as much bc they believed that NA would be such a easy pushover. They came into the not nearly prepared as the Abjured was, who have been practicing endlessly scrimming with Absurd and other teams.
Tcg is composed of great players but they just let their egos get the best of them and it cost them. Hopefully now, we will see a different attitude towards the NA side of things.

SaintSnow.6593:

This wts was honestly just a classic case of egomania becoming too much. EU has been going years of firmly believing they are vastly superior to NA and tcg just didn’t practice nor care as much bc they believed that NA would be such a easy pushover. They came into the not nearly prepared as the Abjured was, who have been practicing endlessly scrimming with Absurd and other teams.
Tcg is composed of great players but they just let their egos get the best of them and it cost them. Hopefully now, we will see a different attitude towards the NA side of things.

I honestly don’t think that’s true. Not to insult you or anything, just that both ROM and Helseth talked about how much they practiced, Grouch talked about how much they practiced and we’ve all seen sizer scrim for hours on stream and he did his job at the tournament well. Even the weekly cups were a wakeup call to TCG and they came out on top the last one. Now if TCG says they didn’t practice enough, then I’ll shut right up, but I really feel like it came down to better rotation and counter strategy on the Abjured’s part. Plus it’s a pressure marathon for all teams involved with the WTS with those back-to-back matches. I think we saw that it takes a lot more than mechanical skill and good communication to make it at that highest level. Sometimes you just have to have more mettle than the other guy. Sometimes you are lucky enough to play your absolute best game under pressure.

NA Master Race

We beat them in GvG, we beat them in PvP, now we just gotta beat them in PvE!!!

Cheese is something easy to use with little risk and high payoff, but puts you behind when countered.
IE panic strike. Takes no skill from the player to use, and can result in a high reward. However, if cleansed it leaves you in a worse position than if you played another build because you lose more than you gain.

Another example is a zergling rush in SC/SC2.

If you read my post history, you can see that I (falsely) predicted that TCG was gonna win, because they favored rotations over cheese builds. I was wrong. I’ve seen the matches, and I must say that even if you might say that the Abjured ran what looked like a soloq pug, their skill and communication made them win. What us mere mortals can not understand, is that at that lvl of play there is no real cheese. Gg Abjured, and gg TCG. It was a lot of fun watching those games, and it never felt like the NA team abused OP builds.

SaintSnow.6593:

This wts was honestly just a classic case of egomania becoming too much. EU has been going years of firmly believing they are vastly superior to NA and tcg just didn’t practice nor care as much bc they believed that NA would be such a easy pushover. They came into the not nearly prepared as the Abjured was, who have been practicing endlessly scrimming with Absurd and other teams.
Tcg is composed of great players but they just let their egos get the best of them and it cost them. Hopefully now, we will see a different attitude towards the NA side of things.

Did we watch the same tournament? The games were great, and often very close (that come back in the first one!). Sizer did a fantastic job, as did Rom, so I bet they practiced just fine. There were just two top teams with close enough lvl of play to offer great entertainment. I think your chauvinism has altered your experience of the tournament, maybe you should watch it again.

Ye since the april patch you can clearly see how NA has “improved” their rotations.
You know playing that “effective” 3 point game where they tunnel far mid and constantly go back to cap their close point.
Lets not even talk about that amazing coordinated burst they have when for example helseth used portal got hit by nade ported out instantly and still almost died to incendiary powder.

Deleted.. Misunderstood the post lol

I have a preference for teams that do not roll 2 of the same professions, so I was more in favour of TCG. However you can’t call the win of Abjured ’’undeserved’’ or anything like that.

TheLargeUnit.2793:

NA Master Race

We beat them in GvG, we beat them in PvP, now we just gotta beat them in PvE!!!

No you didn’t beat ’’EU’’ in GvG, there’s 0 proof for that since NA were too scared to come over to EU servers. But w/e enormously off topic.

Along with sPvP: This is rather an issue with Abjured > TCG, since there are many other teams with better comps out there in EU that have beaten TCG with bigger scores than abjured did, whereas abjured and absurd are the only good teams in NA that would have a much smaller chance of winning.
If you’d have 4 teams of NA and 4 teams of EU all together playing LAN it would come down much different probably and much more accurate than just saying ‘’NA > EU’’ after 1 team fight another on LAN.

Ahwell the EU > NA or NA > EU drama will always continue.

Umm yes NA did win gvg. AGG won on EU and NA.

Leeto.1570:

Ye since the april patch you can clearly see how NA has “improved” their rotations.
You know playing that “effective” 3 point game where they tunnel far mid and constantly go back to cap their close point.
Lets not even talk about that amazing coordinated burst they have when for example helseth used portal got hit by nade ported out instantly and still almost died to incendiary powder.

That means: mesmers – peasants, E&E – glorious master race.
What a meta! Wow!

Leeto.1570:

Ye since the april patch you can clearly see how NA has “improved” their rotations.
You know playing that “effective” 3 point game where they tunnel far mid and constantly go back to cap their close point.
Lets not even talk about that amazing coordinated burst they have when for example helseth used portal got hit by nade ported out instantly and still almost died to incendiary powder.

such skills much esports indeed, sizer was trolling them so bad lol…3 ppl chasing him on temple and still failed to get him down

clock was probably the best player in NA…he carried the whole team to win two times, saving them from 3 cap too without even running celestial. Respect

Archaon.9524:

Leeto.1570:

Ye since the april patch you can clearly see how NA has “improved” their rotations.
You know playing that “effective” 3 point game where they tunnel far mid and constantly go back to cap their close point.
Lets not even talk about that amazing coordinated burst they have when for example helseth used portal got hit by nade ported out instantly and still almost died to incendiary powder.

such skills much esports indeed, sizer was trolling them so bad lol…3 ppl chasing him on temple and still failed to get him down

clock was probably the best player in NA…he carried the whole team to win two times, without even running celestial

You are right I guess EU should do something to counter clock….. like you know stay on the point and win teamfights.

NeXeD.3042:

Archaon.9524:

Leeto.1570:

Ye since the april patch you can clearly see how NA has “improved” their rotations.
You know playing that “effective” 3 point game where they tunnel far mid and constantly go back to cap their close point.
Lets not even talk about that amazing coordinated burst they have when for example helseth used portal got hit by nade ported out instantly and still almost died to incendiary powder.

such skills much esports indeed, sizer was trolling them so bad lol…3 ppl chasing him on temple and still failed to get him down

clock was probably the best player in NA…he carried the whole team to win two times, without even running celestial

You are right I guess EU should do something to counter clock….. like you know stay on the point and win teamfights.

While everyone randomly spamming aoe conditions everywhere on point…so gud

Archaon.9524:

NeXeD.3042:

Archaon.9524:

Leeto.1570:

Ye since the april patch you can clearly see how NA has “improved” their rotations.
You know playing that “effective” 3 point game where they tunnel far mid and constantly go back to cap their close point.
Lets not even talk about that amazing coordinated burst they have when for example helseth used portal got hit by nade ported out instantly and still almost died to incendiary powder.

such skills much esports indeed, sizer was trolling them so bad lol…3 ppl chasing him on temple and still failed to get him down

clock was probably the best player in NA…he carried the whole team to win two times, without even running celestial

You are right I guess EU should do something to counter clock….. like you know stay on the point and win teamfights.

While everyone randomly spamming aoe conditions everywhere on point…so gud

So now it was the random aoe spam and not the clock…. ?

Just can’t admit they won fair and square can you….

People need to realize that a win is a win. There are rules to pvp, such as the 15 minute limit. Winning within those limits is a win. Almost winning within those limits is an almost win, but not a win. If it was 15-minute-30-second pvp, maybe TCG would have won. But it’s not; it’s 15-minute pvp.

What lol why would I be kitten I wanted Abjured to win lol

Xiadais.2739:

People need to realize that a win is a win. There are rules to pvp, such as the 15 minute limit. Winning within those limits is a win. Almost winning within those limits is an almost win, but not a win. If it was 15-minute-30-second pvp, maybe TCG would have won. But it’s not; it’s 15-minute pvp.

They won and that’s it…once every two years it’s not that bad after all…

bethekey.8314:

This seems appropriate here.

Pretty much, but it does give some decent entertainment after the matches…

I mean, what else are we going to do? Que up and get better? Nah, this is way more fun

Archaon – It’s irrelevant if TCG is the strongest/not strongest in EU. Despite having an outdated comp, they did very well. You can’t admit that RIP had amazing coordination and strategy but at the same time you harshly criticize TCG.

Both teams have tremendous talent.

I’m impressed with the modesty and humility displayed by NA

Guys calm down, NA did not beat EU, 5 people beat 5 other people. The entire NA had next to no input as did the EU. You’re sounding like these idiots who watch football and think they are part of the team.

One thing I think I saw or heard about in the finals is how people would give up there nodes, I think it was NA doing that.

I’m not sure if EU does this, but a lot of NA games the good players will let the bad players decap the node, but since the meta is currently ranged rather than melee, that’s why and they will kill you as long as you cant attack them back, or not apply as much pressure back.

That’s why engineers and rangers are dominant in NA meta because all the good players do that kitten, very annoying too. Ranged attacks are too strong, they need to be toned down, melee attacks should be deadlier than ranged attacks.

Just thinking about ranged attacks.
Necro has that 3 second death combo
Ele’s have a 3 second death combo
Engineers have some wacko combo, not really fast but involves knocking you off the node on the ground while watching your health tick away.
Rangers just pew pew it away while doing same thing engineers do with that knock on the ground and watch your health tick away.

Now you look at MELEE damage, you don’t see no warrior making you die in 3 seconds. Its a lot harder to even melee people because everyone ranged and running away.
Thieves aren’t even that op either, sure they have some combos, but they’ll mostly be using that shortbow on you.

But look at the warrior and the guardian, no 3 second death combos or anywhere near that. They don’t even knock you off the node or anything, unlike necromancer fear off node and you die, and the ranger, and the engineer.

Celestial amulets? Who gives a kitten, that’s not doing anything to the game, its the ranged meta, engineer meta.

Never heard somebody say, oh we lost, celestial amulet people.
I’ve heard a lot of people say, kitten turrets, engineers op (its not really the turrets, well it can be, that immobilize and those heals.)

uberkingkong.8041:

Necro has that 3 second death combo
Ele’s have a 3 second death combo

You got a single comment thread killer combo… That is amazing on it’s own…

Or are you going to enlighten everyone what these epic death combos are?

GoogleBrandon.5073:

uberkingkong.8041:

Necro has that 3 second death combo
Ele’s have a 3 second death combo

You got a single comment thread killer combo… That is amazing on it’s own…

Or are you going to enlighten everyone what these epic death combos are?

Oh you don’t know? Well in like 5 hours if nobody else shows you, I’ll look up videos on youtube and show you. I know I’ll find one for elementalist, but for necromancer might be harder because those people that play necromancer aren’t really that preppy and popular, like Zombify I don’t know if he streams or not, or if Iuck streams, I’m sure they know how to combo people to there deaths.

Just play the game and you’ll see once you play against a necro or ele that knows what they doing. Just look at zoose if you want the 3 second ele death combo, and for necro, play game when you get a game with boohda or I think little demise might play that kind of build (those 2 active people I seen), youll know it when it hits ya. Its just, if your not ready for it, you dead. To counter them, I know for necro, when you notice half your hp or 77% of your hp go away instantly and you have like 10 condi’s on you, that’s when it hit ya and if you cant do anything about it, you dead. For ele, I haven’t seen ele’s play at zoose level, so I don’t encounter that 3 second death combo, but its there, just takes a lot of skills to do it, I think to counter it though or know when its coming is when you have burning on you, never have the condi of burning while fighting an ele.

Brandon mains a necro uber. He is well aware of what a necro can and cannot do. The only classes I have ever been able to do what your saying is against a theif and a mesmer and it’s alot harder to pull off than simply click and 3 seconds later they are dead and that would be a full glass cannon dhuumfire terror necro and even then it takes longer than 3 seconds.

That fresh air ele burst your talking about is almost impossible to hit someone with. Also the burning thing your talking about with eles is fire grab but thats on dagger offhand and while I have seen people running sc/d most of the time it’s s/f.

uberkingkong.8041:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

uberkingkong.8041:

Necro has that 3 second death combo
Ele’s have a 3 second death combo

You got a single comment thread killer combo… That is amazing on it’s own…

Or are you going to enlighten everyone what these epic death combos are?

and for necro, play game when you get a game with boohda or I think little demise might play that kind of build (those 2 active people I seen), youll know it when it hits ya. Its just, if your not ready for it, you dead. To counter them, I know for necro, when you notice half your hp or 77% of your hp go away instantly and you have like 10 condi’s on you, that’s when it hit ya and if you cant do anything about it, you dead.

If you stand in a well or facetank the Lich…

And guess what! Warrior also has 3-second death combo!

If you’re a training golem, anything will do that combo on you tbh.

He’s talking about the 6/4/0/0/4 dhuum terror necro my guess would be something along the lines of mark 2,3,5 swap to ds 5, 3 , 1 , 2 come out of ds swap to scepter and hit 3. I would guess sos is also in there. But all that is stll more than 3 seconds.

NeXeD.3042:

Brandon mains a necro uber. He is well aware of what a necro can and cannot do. The only classes I have ever been able to do what your saying is against a theif and a mesmer and it’s alot harder to pull off than simply click and 3 seconds later they are dead and that would be a full glass cannon dhuumfire terror necro and even then it takes longer than 3 seconds.

That fresh air ele burst your talking about is almost impossible to hit someone with. Also the burning thing your talking about with eles is fire grab but thats on dagger offhand and while I have seen people running sc/d most of the time it’s s/f.

tell that to AK

Rym.1469:

uberkingkong.8041:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

uberkingkong.8041:

Necro has that 3 second death combo
Ele’s have a 3 second death combo

You got a single comment thread killer combo… That is amazing on it’s own…

Or are you going to enlighten everyone what these epic death combos are?

and for necro, play game when you get a game with boohda or I think little demise might play that kind of build (those 2 active people I seen), youll know it when it hits ya. Its just, if your not ready for it, you dead. To counter them, I know for necro, when you notice half your hp or 77% of your hp go away instantly and you have like 10 condi’s on you, that’s when it hit ya and if you cant do anything about it, you dead.

If you stand in a well or facetank the Lich…

And guess what! Warrior also has 3-second death combo!

If you’re a training golem, anything will do that combo on you tbh.

Nothing but a bunch of people trying to keep the ranged dps meta.

Well Brandon probably isn’t on the level as those I’ve seen. Wait till you get a match with Iuck. As for elementalists, like I said it takes a lot of skills to pull it off, which is why I don’t see it often and not sure how to counter it.

Its all about countering but it exists and if your on cooldowns to counter, your pretty much dead. Theres a lot of newbs out there too, don’t expect everyone to be able to counter a necro setting you up for 3 second death combo or an ele doing the same.

At least for ele and necro its like pretty much instant, you don’t see it coming until you notice your hp drops. While for warrior, when you see that bull charge or them rushing to you, its pretty much a given that you dodgeroll away from it. You don’t get the luxury that necro’s and ele’s have at setting you up for the death combo as in seeing emotions happening meaning oh hes going to corrupt my boons and then hes going to do some other crazy stuff.

Warriors cant just smash 5 buttons at once and watch peoples hp drop while ranged. They have to wait for the 100b to do its full rotation, they have to wait for the spinning charge to do its thing. They cant bull rush 100b spinning charge in split seconds on you.

Even if they could, they’d have to do some kind of immobilize or stun on you too, which they don’t get luxry like necro doing 3 second death combo, which includes a fear and if you try and survive it you get feared again and they got an extra fear just in case you think you awesome. Which if they good, which they are, they do it so your off the node and just watch you bleed out.

Warrior cant beat the crap outta ya and leave ya off node. Necro, Ranger, Engineer can do that. Elementalist can do it if well played and positioned, however not the 3 second death ele. Heck mesmers do that too.

Know whats the trend will all of them? Ranged DPS.

You see guardian and warrior. Cant do jack diddly squat because they melee players.
Probably why the NA team didn’t bother with guardian and warrior, engineer can do what both of them do best. Bunker the kitten and dps the kitten outta people and BETTER because they got knockbacks. You look at AH guardian, it cant really bunker kitten, if it goes against engineer its going to knock him off node eventually, guardian (AH) cant knock engineer off node. Engineer eventually wins, those classes I mentioned ranged dps classes, eventually win.

Ok well as a necro if I burn all my cooldowns and come across an engi then I’m dead…. even though necro counter engi…

Also d/D ele is meta and its not ranged. The theif main damage is not from his kittening shortbow lol.

Booms.2594:

NeXeD.3042:

Brandon mains a necro uber. He is well aware of what a necro can and cannot do. The only classes I have ever been able to do what your saying is against a theif and a mesmer and it’s alot harder to pull off than simply click and 3 seconds later they are dead and that would be a full glass cannon dhuumfire terror necro and even then it takes longer than 3 seconds.

That fresh air ele burst your talking about is almost impossible to hit someone with. Also the burning thing your talking about with eles is fire grab but thats on dagger offhand and while I have seen people running sc/d most of the time it’s s/f.

tell that to AK

Who is AK and what part?

Just saying helseth and sizer owe a lot of gold to all those bets they lost. Overconfidence can be trouble.

Err, let me just set one thing straight first, I main a Warrior, not a Necro :P

It was in GW1 where I mained Necro, which is impossible for me to do in GW2 since they differ too much… in GW2 I play nearly everything aside from Thief and Ranger

Uber, I am aware that there are burst builds exist, for a fact, I played both power and S/x Necromancer and Elementalist, maybe not on “Top Level” but hey ho, aside from Sheiishizo and Zombify, there are no Power Necromancers competing within it, and Scepter Elementalists have singled out to just Zoose (who also played D/D on GamesCon iirc)

Thing is, if these builds are so plastic fantastic, why is it that those are not utilized more?

You can argue about the power/time as to compared a Warrior maybe (Warrior’s burst aside from Evis is pretty bad and highly telegraphed) but it is quite a fact that almost no one ever runs these kinds of set-ups in a team, for well know reasons…

Also, saying “3 Sec Death Combo” is cool and all, but I always wonder – What are they using? Because if you are running BiP, WoS and SoS and use a D/F on Necromancer, you can easily get someone down quickly but you are running a build with literally no sustain…

Power necro’s lack so many things. They can’t be called OP, especially not in the regular top tier conquest game modes.

so will this mean eu will start using cele amulet?

Rym.1469:

uberkingkong.8041:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

uberkingkong.8041:

Necro has that 3 second death combo
Ele’s have a 3 second death combo

You got a single comment thread killer combo… That is amazing on it’s own…

Or are you going to enlighten everyone what these epic death combos are?

and for necro, play game when you get a game with boohda or I think little demise might play that kind of build (those 2 active people I seen), youll know it when it hits ya. Its just, if your not ready for it, you dead. To counter them, I know for necro, when you notice half your hp or 77% of your hp go away instantly and you have like 10 condi’s on you, that’s when it hit ya and if you cant do anything about it, you dead.

If you stand in a well or facetank the Lich…

And guess what! Warrior also has 3-second death combo!

If you’re a training golem, anything will do that combo on you tbh.

So what is this 3 second combo again? You would need Frenzy for that or Hit both Arcing and Final Thrust with intelligence proc. Even then, at least most Warrior combos are easy to dodge.

On topic though:
Seriously though, are people from EU going to be productive at all when it comes to mechanics? They’re always been mechanically inferior than NA, that’s why in the past they always had to use forgiving crap. NA just beat EU at their own game which is abusing cheese, all there is to it.

All EU really did was use a more forgiving comp for the most part, NA was NEVER behind the meta.

P.S Super didn’t invent hambow and ROM didn’t invent shoutbow. EU Warriors only started playing Warrior when Warrior became broken.

Just mechanically inferior players in general in all honestly. Only thing they have going for them are rotations and comp (Not comp in this WTS though).

TL;DR Stop overrating EU, they weren’t that special to begin with.

Dunno why you guys are arguing EU vs NA.

NA won, simple as that.

If EU is so good at this game, why didn’t they win? Theres no cheese in top end pvp in any esport mmo game, ever.

You play to win and thats, that. This is why you kids will never be on the world stage, so stop complaining about everything.

NA won, NA is the best, EU got second. Simple as that.

Nightsurfa.3982:

Dunno why you guys are arguing EU vs NA.

NA won, simple as that.

If EU is so good at this game, why didn’t they win? Theres no cheese in top end pvp in any esport mmo game, ever.

You play to win and thats, that. This is why you kids will never be on the world stage, so stop complaining about everything.

NA won, NA is the best, EU got second. Simple as that.

Can’t blame EU, they think they’re superior honestly. Since you’re a returning player, I’d say you should’ve been here a few years or months back when EU people called NA behind the meta. Just wow.

Would be great of people learned humility already.

Coulter.2315:

Guys calm down, NA did not beat EU, 5 people beat 5 other people. The entire NA had next to no input as did the EU. You’re sounding like these idiots who watch football and think they are part of the team.

^The truth.

^relevant