Ele, Burning and after Meta is not bad

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Posted by: philheat.3956

philheat.3956

I have the impression if Anet toned down Elementalist (damage/sustain) and burning (general formula and stacks quantity) meta could be really interesting.

Probably Mesmer needs some other adjustement, (PU and CS) but Ele and burning are broken without any doubt, so I’d start with this fix.

Thoughts?

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Posted by: FrownyClown.8402

FrownyClown.8402

we already now it needs fixed. Let anet do their job.


Bad Elementalist

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Posted by: Phil.8901

Phil.8901

we already now it needs fixed. Let anet do their job.

I found a little weird in the last patch anet didn’t touch ele and burning (and it’s true there are A LOT of topics about)

And honestly it’s a little sad they are going to show a really interesting WTS with the ele and burning in this status.

So i think this is a good reminder.

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Posted by: Ezra.5049

Ezra.5049

Burning needs to be toned down for sure (not only eles)

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Posted by: Phaeton.9582

Phaeton.9582

Burning from what?


Phaatonn, London UK

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Posted by: Velimere.7685

Velimere.7685

Turn down from what?

Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

It’s okay you can stop complaining about burning now it’s been over a month already.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: evilapprentice.6379

evilapprentice.6379

Burning doesn’t need a damage nerf so much as it does an adjustment.

Yes, Burning could probably stand to lose 8-15% of it’s overall damage – I mean, it’s triple the damage of most other conditions in most scenarios, and that’s just silly. But more than anything, burning shouldn’t be doing “burst” damage.

Condi classes only need 1 stat from their amulet to do optimal damage. That’s supposed to be balanced against the fact that condition damage is intended to be of the “attrition” variety rather than the “burst” variety. Currently, burning can do excellent burst damage under the right circumstances, and that’s just silly.

Cut burning damage significantly (so it’d only 2.0 – 2.2 times other conditions, roughly), and extend the duration accordingly so that burning only loses between 0 and 15% of it’s overall damage (whatever playtesting (playtesting, lawl) proves fair), and then burning will probably be a fair condition.

If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

Ele definitely needs toned down. Burning just needs stacks vs duration on a few skills adjusted. Then we’ll be decent.

I would also like to see better stat customization.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: Darksteel.8412

Darksteel.8412

Burning needs to be toned down for sure (not only eles)

all conditions could be toned by 33% to the very least

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Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

Need some change on rune of vampirism as well. Really don’t like it that much.

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Posted by: Velimere.7685

Velimere.7685

Need some change on rune of vampirism as well. Really don’t like it that much.

You read it here first, folks! This guy doesn’t like the rune, so it needs to be changed from what it’s been since the beginning of the game!

Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

Burning needs to be toned down for sure (not only eles)

all conditions could be toned by 33% to the very least

What? How many bleed builds do you really struggle with? Fun fact, bleeding got an undeserved nerf from the patch due to too low of scaling after the base nerf on all conditions. Bleeds, torment and poison really don’t need damage reduction.

Confusion, I think is fine but can be stacked really kitten high on some builds can can be fairly problematic/not fun, but still probably not a big deal.

Burning, more than damage nerf, needs its duration doubled and damage halved so condition removal does it job and burning doesn’t force cleanses immediately, removing the judgement and play to conditions. And then maybe still a small nerf in damage, not sure.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Phil.8901

Phil.8901

Burning doesn’t need a damage nerf so much as it does an adjustment.

Yes, Burning could probably stand to lose 8-15% of it’s overall damage – I mean, it’s triple the damage of most other conditions in most scenarios, and that’s just silly. But more than anything, burning shouldn’t be doing “burst” damage.

Condi classes only need 1 stat from their amulet to do optimal damage. That’s supposed to be balanced against the fact that condition damage is intended to be of the “attrition” variety rather than the “burst” variety. Currently, burning can do excellent burst damage under the right circumstances, and that’s just silly.

Cut burning damage significantly (so it’d only 2.0 – 2.2 times other conditions, roughly), and extend the duration accordingly so that burning only loses between 0 and 15% of it’s overall damage (whatever playtesting (playtesting, lawl) proves fair), and then burning will probably be a fair condition.

15% is too low and the formula has a base damage and a condi damage modifier, the damage with 0 condi damage should be really low, not so high like now. In a old topic about burning I analyzed the fact the actual formula is just wrong.

The base damage is too high, it means with power build with 0 condi damage with multiple stacks is not a DoT anymore but a burst damage (like u said). With high condi damage a single stack is really like 1 hit of an high damage power skill.

Formula should be something like

(0.160 * Condition Damage) + 55 (at level 80), so 1 stack with 1000 condi damage should be 215 (now is 286.5 ) and with 0 condi damage 55 (now is 131.5). It’s a reduction of 25% on 1000 condi damage and a more higher reduction if you have 0 condi damage (there is no really sense burning does so high damage with 0 condi damage).

A little better scale with condi damage but low damage with 0 condi damage. Ofc you can adjust a bit more the duration but 4 burning stacks wiht 1000 condi damage it would be always 860 dmg/s and it’s very good. (Not like 1.1k+ we have now, with no sense values with 0 condi damage)

(edited by Phil.8901)

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Posted by: Siva Mira.3546

Siva Mira.3546

The number of stacking for Burning for each skill need some serious adjustment. Guardian and Ele can really apply over 7 stacks of Burning right off the bat at the beginning of the fight. Some classes can not do anything about it and just get roasted by burning, and Necro can just transfer everything back and if he did the Guardian or Ele are likely to get killed by their own Burning if they can not clean it fast enough. As a Necro I never find it fun or satisfied when winning against these Burningmancer but I do find it funny how this ridiculous thing can kill their own master in just a matter of seconds.

All is vain.

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Posted by: Sol.4310

Sol.4310

Burning needs to be toned down for sure (not only eles)

all conditions could be toned by 33% to the very least

What? How many bleed builds do you really struggle with? Fun fact, bleeding got an undeserved nerf from the patch due to too low of scaling after the base nerf on all conditions. Bleeds, torment and poison really don’t need damage reduction.

Confusion, I think is fine but can be stacked really kitten high on some builds can can be fairly problematic/not fun, but still probably not a big deal.

Burning, more than damage nerf, needs its duration doubled and damage halved so condition removal does it job and burning doesn’t force cleanses immediately, removing the judgement and play to conditions. And then maybe still a small nerf in damage, not sure.

Mate just give up nothing will change, if you can’t tell by now they’re turning PvP into PvE. Just look at some of the skills they changes, help’s WvW/PvE more than PvP. I won’t be logging until they fix their balance….. 6-12 months of this garbage but let’s be real its been like this for past 2 years. Always seem to be OP stuff left in meta for months then they finally nerf it and over buff something else for no reason.

Saizo Sol – Ranger
Twitch – Aussie Streamer

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Posted by: Phaeton.9582

Phaeton.9582

burning doesn’t need a nerf. Ele needs a nerf.

If you’re having trouble with engi/guard/warrior burning it’s a l2p issue. No class lacks a viable way to deal with conditions after the patch. Nerfing burning would just make condition setups for these classes even less viable.


Phaatonn, London UK

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

The only thing Burn related about Eles that needs adjusting is Ring of Fire.

  • Pyromamer’s Training 33% down to 25%*
  • Ring of Fire 1/4 cast duration to 1/2*

Reasoning
Fire Fields just became a tool used to prevent ‘path of direction’ – people stop in front of it or they get stuck inside because they don’t have a dodge or condi cleanse. Eles beings this tool out every 10s… you can imagine its AoE usefulness now.

There’s a reason why Guardian’s Purging Flame is 2x weaker.

  • Casts every 28s
  • Gets easily interupted thanks to it’s 3/4 cast time.
  • 28s later… people have their dodge’s and condi cleanses back up.

Other than that, Ele burns are fine.
Conditions in general are actually subpar in competitive TPvP.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
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Posted by: Random Weird Guy.3528

Random Weird Guy.3528

Eles beings this tool out every 10s… you can imagine its AoE usefulness now.

Nobody uses RoF every 10s, you would have to skip several skills just for this.

Random Engineering // Trixxti // Random Noises (worst thief eu)
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Posted by: BlackTruth.6813

BlackTruth.6813

Eles beings this tool out every 10s… you can imagine its AoE usefulness now.

Nobody uses RoF every 10s, you would have to skip several skills just for this.

Sad part is they can. Can’t believe the ele main doesn’t know how his own class works. Basically in a team fight if you ring of fire and people pay attention to that, that’s a good dodge bait and if people don’t dodge then gg 3 stacks of burning every time you go in and out.

Point though is, ANET needs to nerf this BS so the game will be balanced.

twitch.tv/blacktruth009
Schwahrheit, #1 Fuhrer NA, Just your everyday typical rager

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Posted by: Sunshine.5014

Sunshine.5014

The only thing Burn related about Eles that needs adjusting is Ring of Fire.

  • Pyromamer’s Training 33% down to 25%*
  • Ring of Fire 1/4 cast duration to 1/2*

Reasoning
Fire Fields just became a tool used to prevent ‘path of direction’ – people stop in front of it or they get stuck inside because they don’t have a dodge or condi cleanse. Eles beings this tool out every 10s… you can imagine its AoE usefulness now.

There’s a reason why Guardian’s Purging Flame is 2x weaker.

  • Casts every 28s
  • Gets easily interupted thanks to it’s 3/4 cast time.
  • 28s later… people have their dodge’s and condi cleanses back up.

Other than that, Ele burns are fine.
Conditions in general are actually subpar in competitive TPvP.

It’s hard to follow your logic. Those seem to be just random nerf request. How will a Ring of Fire cast time increase help you? People get burned when they walk in and out of the Ring, not on cast. Making it cast slower, but people still walk in and out of it multiple times, is meaningless.

The cooldown reduction nerf is even weirder. The rotation takes 15 seconds. You will need to time it so you have blast in Water anyway, which is 15s. Making it 33% or 25% is the same. It only nerfs Glass Staff PvE, not PvP.

/facepalm

Gray out the HP for future condition damage
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Posted by: Random Weird Guy.3528

Random Weird Guy.3528

Eles beings this tool out every 10s… you can imagine its AoE usefulness now.

Nobody uses RoF every 10s, you would have to skip several skills just for this.

Sad part is they can. Can’t believe the ele main doesn’t know how his own class works. Basically in a team fight if you ring of fire and people pay attention to that, that’s a good dodge bait and if people don’t dodge then gg 3 stacks of burning every time you go in and out.

Point though is, ANET needs to nerf this BS so the game will be balanced.

I didn’t say they can’t, I said nobody does it because you would have to skip several other skills in the rotation (such as frozen burst and magnetic grasp).

Random Engineering // Trixxti // Random Noises (worst thief eu)
Svanir Appreciation Society [SAS]

(edited by Random Weird Guy.3528)

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

The only thing Burn related about Eles that needs adjusting is Ring of Fire.

  • Pyromamer’s Training 33% down to 25%*
  • Ring of Fire 1/4 cast duration to 1/2*

Reasoning
Fire Fields just became a tool used to prevent ‘path of direction’ – people stop in front of it or they get stuck inside because they don’t have a dodge or condi cleanse. Eles beings this tool out every 10s… you can imagine its AoE usefulness now.

There’s a reason why Guardian’s Purging Flame is 2x weaker.

  • Casts every 28s
  • Gets easily interupted thanks to it’s 3/4 cast time.
  • 28s later… people have their dodge’s and condi cleanses back up.

Other than that, Ele burns are fine.
Conditions in general are actually subpar in competitive TPvP.

It’s hard to follow your logic. Those seem to be just random nerf request. How will a Ring of Fire cast time increase help you? People get burned when they walk in and out of the Ring, not on cast. Making it cast slower, but people still walk in and out of it multiple times, is meaningless.

The cooldown reduction nerf is even weirder. The rotation takes 15 seconds. You will need to time it so you have blast in Water anyway, which is 15s. Making it 33% or 25% is the same. It only nerfs Glass Staff PvE, not PvP.

/facepalm

Rotations is 10s Pyromancer’s Training

You have a point about increasing Ring of Fire’s CD, as switching back to Fire Attunement and casting RoF could technically already be 12s after certain rotations, especially if you’re purposely waiting to get in close to use the skill.

However, in a course of 30s (or longer…. it’s a Cele Ele) the time reduction plays a huge factor against certain melee classes (or clutch plays) where an Ele doesn’t have to think twice about immediately switching to Fire attunement to casting RoF. It’s incredibly easy; 99% of the time I can get one person inside the ring. The biggest reward is casting it Right when they leave the ring, then they come back because they used a jump skill or because they were already going to do so. Easy 6 burn stacks. That strengthens my next point below.

An increased cast time would mean

  • People will not get trapped in RoF as easily in certain clutch scenarios.
  • RoF will have a higher possibility of getting interrupted in a course of 30s or more.

RoF is a direct cause of people’s frustration. It limits pathways, people are ‘stuck’ inside lest they waste a dodge/cleanse/invuln etc. There’s a reason why this 10s skill does more damage than a Guardian’s Purging Flames in a clutch play mid fight and 1v1 scenarios. And that’s because Purging Flames applies 3 stack of burns on cast… yet it’s not as effective.
Speaking of Purging Flames… it can only be as effective if we use Shield or GS to pull/push players inside the ring. It’s a very hit or miss combo compared to Ele’s low risk, low cd, and quick casting RoF.

I responded to this thread that’s accusing Elementalist’s Burns (the condition in general) being the culprit.. I disagree in that it’s, instead, a single skill that’s causing all the drama rather than the Burn condition itself. Every other profession with Burns can attest to this.

aka FalseLights
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(edited by Saiyan.1704)

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Posted by: Random Weird Guy.3528

Random Weird Guy.3528

Rotations is 10s Pyromancer’s Training

Do you even know the meaning of elementalist skill rotation? You know that eles don’t just camp fire right? There are skills in other attunements that need to be used in order to be effective, frozen burst for example should be used in every rotation and is a 15s cd.

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Posted by: Sunshine.5014

Sunshine.5014

Rotations is 10s Pyromancer’s Training

Do you even know the meaning of elementalist skill rotation? You know that eles don’t just camp fire right? There are skills in other attunements that need to be used in order to be effective, frozen burst for example should be used in every rotation and is a 15s cd.

+1 it looks like he doesn’t even understand the basic Ele rotation, which everyone in the forums says faceroll easy :|

10s or 15s doesn’t matter much for PvP since the rotation is 15s anyway and no one camps fire. Nerfing that only nerf Glass staff PvE, which does camp fire.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Rotations is 10s Pyromancer’s Training

Do you even know the meaning of elementalist skill rotation? You know that eles don’t just camp fire right? There are skills in other attunements that need to be used in order to be effective, frozen burst for example should be used in every rotation and is a 15s cd.

Which part of my posts suggested people to camp in Fire Attunement??

Yes, blast finishers in fire fields gives you 3 stacks of might. It’s very easy to waste a might stack if it means you’ll trap 1 or more people in the ring. Especially if this was a tpvp skirmish scenario… enter Fire Attunement for a RoF potential 6 stack+ burn effect definitely outweighs that single effect you gain from rotations.

I’m not saying to skip rotations entirely… I Never said to stay and camp in fire attunement.

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Posted by: Random Weird Guy.3528

Random Weird Guy.3528

Okay, how about you direct me to the stream or VoD of a top player who casts RoF every 10 seconds since you think it’s such an issue?

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Posted by: Sunshine.5014

Sunshine.5014

Rotations is 10s Pyromancer’s Training

Do you even know the meaning of elementalist skill rotation? You know that eles don’t just camp fire right? There are skills in other attunements that need to be used in order to be effective, frozen burst for example should be used in every rotation and is a 15s cd.

Which part of my posts suggested people to camp in Fire Attunement??

Yes, blast finishers in fire fields gives you 3 stacks of might. It’s very easy to waste a might stack if it means you’ll trap 1 or more people in the ring. Especially if this was a tpvp skirmish scenario… enter Fire Attunement for a RoF potential 6 stack+ burn effect definitely outweighs that single effect you gain from rotations.

I’m not saying to skip rotations entirely… I Never said to stay and camp in fire attunement.

I question your honesty when you keep telling people about the mythical easy 6 burn stacks per RoF cast.

Ring of Fire apply no burning stack on cast, and only apply 3 stacks when you walk in and out of it. If the opponent gets 6 stacks, that’s a proof of a bad play. How do you even defend that bad play?

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Posted by: Velimere.7685

Velimere.7685

Doesn’t Guardian’s Purging Flames only apply burning on cast? It just needs to be updated to also burn on passing in and out of it as well and then balance is perfect. Elementalist is fine.

Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.

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Posted by: Jekkt.6045

Jekkt.6045

burning as a whole needs rebalancing, it’s not only the ele’s fault.

the sustain on ele is fine, it’s lower than pre patch so i see no problem with it.

the meta as a whole will still not be good when burning damage is adjusted. overall there is way too much damage in the game right now and as long as this doesn’t change the meta can’t be in a healthy spot.

Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.

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Posted by: Taku.6352

Taku.6352

Doesn’t Guardian’s Purging Flames only apply burning on cast? It just needs to be updated to also burn on passing in and out of it as well and then balance is perfect. Elementalist is fine.

It applies 3 on cast and 3 every time someone passes trough the ring like ele one. Biggest difference between the two is that RoF does pretty solid damage with a very low cast time whereas guard one only does burns.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Rotations is 10s Pyromancer’s Training

Do you even know the meaning of elementalist skill rotation? You know that eles don’t just camp fire right? There are skills in other attunements that need to be used in order to be effective, frozen burst for example should be used in every rotation and is a 15s cd.

Which part of my posts suggested people to camp in Fire Attunement??

Yes, blast finishers in fire fields gives you 3 stacks of might. It’s very easy to waste a might stack if it means you’ll trap 1 or more people in the ring. Especially if this was a tpvp skirmish scenario… enter Fire Attunement for a RoF potential 6 stack+ burn effect definitely outweighs that single effect you gain from rotations.

I’m not saying to skip rotations entirely… I Never said to stay and camp in fire attunement.

I question your honesty when you keep telling people about the mythical easy 6 burn stacks per RoF cast.

Ring of Fire apply no burning stack on cast, and only apply 3 stacks when you walk in and out of it. If the opponent gets 6 stacks, that’s a proof of a bad play. How do you even defend that bad play?

“Burning needs to be toned down for sure on Ele”
“Burning damage needs to be towned down by 8-15%”
“Its not burn guerd it’s ele” – different forum

I’m saying it’s the reason why “Ele burn op plez nurf” threads are being made more often than that other “nerf burn >insert other class<” threads.

Everything about Ele’s burning is fine with the exception of “those bad plays” that seem to happen more often then not in any given tpvp scenario. It’s the fact that Ele’s can cast RoF 3x more than a Guardian’s Purging Flames in a single match, resulting in these “bad plays” occurring more often.

That’s all that I’m saying here.

I gave my suggestion to reduce these “bad plays” from an item that I thought was the culprit to Ele’s “op burns”. Considering these ele burn comments are mainly from solo players who are likely walking in and out of fire fields from a class that can cast it 3x as often than any other – it just makes sense. My post was probably right on the money.

burning as a whole needs rebalancing, it’s not only the ele’s fault.

the sustain on ele is fine, it’s lower than pre patch so i see no problem with it.

the meta as a whole will still not be good when burning damage is adjusted. overall there is way too much damage in the game right now and as long as this doesn’t change the meta can’t be in a healthy spot.

Burning (conditions in general) doesn’t have a place in tournament play where there’s heavy condi cleansing teams about.

Regarding higher burst damages whether that be condi or power, the meta is better than it has ever been, imo. Others have said the same thing in other threads, I think this meta is great compared to full Cele comps prepatch.

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Posted by: Jekkt.6045

Jekkt.6045

this meta is just a continuation of the last one with even more damage and shoutbow/engi replaced by more eles and sometimes necros. there is so much damage in the game now that many bad players get carried by it. if everything hits hard there is no reason anymore to count dodges or bait stunbreaks.

Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.

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Posted by: Michael.9517

Michael.9517

Need some change on rune of vampirism as well. Really don’t like it that much.

lets nerf theifs EVEN more… lmao

if they nerf vamp runes.. they better buff something for thieves

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Posted by: Sunshine.5014

Sunshine.5014

Rotations is 10s Pyromancer’s Training

Do you even know the meaning of elementalist skill rotation? You know that eles don’t just camp fire right? There are skills in other attunements that need to be used in order to be effective, frozen burst for example should be used in every rotation and is a 15s cd.

Which part of my posts suggested people to camp in Fire Attunement??

Yes, blast finishers in fire fields gives you 3 stacks of might. It’s very easy to waste a might stack if it means you’ll trap 1 or more people in the ring. Especially if this was a tpvp skirmish scenario… enter Fire Attunement for a RoF potential 6 stack+ burn effect definitely outweighs that single effect you gain from rotations.

I’m not saying to skip rotations entirely… I Never said to stay and camp in fire attunement.

I question your honesty when you keep telling people about the mythical easy 6 burn stacks per RoF cast.

Ring of Fire apply no burning stack on cast, and only apply 3 stacks when you walk in and out of it. If the opponent gets 6 stacks, that’s a proof of a bad play. How do you even defend that bad play?

“Burning needs to be toned down for sure on Ele”
“Burning damage needs to be towned down by 8-15%”
“Its not burn guerd it’s ele” – different forum

I’m saying it’s the reason why “Ele burn op plez nurf” threads are being made more often than that other “nerf burn >insert other class<” threads.

Everything about Ele’s burning is fine with the exception of “those bad plays” that seem to happen more often then not in any given tpvp scenario. It’s the fact that Ele’s can cast RoF 3x more than a Guardian’s Purging Flames in a single match, resulting in these “bad plays” occurring more often.

That’s all that I’m saying here.

Okay. So would you nerf Guardians’ Ring of Warding because I’m a bad player and run into it all the time and die?

You can dodge in/out of a Ring of Fire, but not a Guardians’ ring.

Bad players die too much to a skill because of their own actions is not a good excuse to request a nerf. It’s like I request a nerf to reflection because I play power Ranger and I just want to spam skill, even when the enemy has reflection on.

So let’s nerf guardians’ reflection to cover my bad play? Similarly to Ring of Fire, reflection does no damage on it own. It only has damage when the opponent is bad. And just for reminder again, you can just dodge out of the Ring of Fire once and the entire damage will be wasted. Why do you have to walk on it?

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Posted by: SPESHAL.9106

SPESHAL.9106

Anet deserves credit for addressing Mesmers and Rampage, which were 2 of the 3 most obvious things to fix.

Not sure why they didn’t fix Eles given how many teams are running two of them versus other professions, but maybe the “fix” is more complicated.

IMO, the issue with Eles is that they have so many passive/powerful traits that synergize too well with things like Burning, Might building, etc. This turns a profession that otherwise would be balanced, into a juggernaut in far too many scenarios compared to others.

Even a niche trait like Diamond Skin will give a benefit to an Ele in almost ANY fight, whereas certain GM traits for other classes only give their benefit in much fewer or limited scenarios.

For example, if Unholy Sanctuary, Call of the Wild, Rampage, etc deserved a nerf for their niche benefit in certain scenarios, then things like DS, Evasive Arcana, Stone Heart, Fresh Air, and/or Blinding Ashes need to be looked at…because too many of them are an equal level benefit and proc their “benefit” far more often.

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Posted by: Kuya.6495

Kuya.6495

I agree with saiyan. People in this forum mostly complain about d/d eles and pu mesmers and also burning, but when you ask them about the classes they think need a nerf burn guards and burn engis rarely make the top of the list. They only seem to put d/d eles at the top of the list along with mesmers. The issue seems to be that d/d ele already had high sustain before the patch and after the update it got a damage boost with the burn upgrade. Making d/d ele high sustain and high condi damage. If that is the problem, then the solution is simply to reduce burn stacks on d/d ele skills.

Hell, burn guards are not even the meta for that class, so it’s weird to ask for a nerf when its damage is considered lower than a phys dps medi guard. For engi, i’m not sure what the meta is but i rarely hear people complain about them despite their access to burns.

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Posted by: Phil.8901

Phil.8901

Burning is historically too strong in GW2.

Anet decreased every condi formula but you couldn’t stack burning before and the lower burning value we have now is not enough to balance the fact burning now stacks.

That’s all, for this reason burning requires a different formula like i said.

And btw Anet knows about this issue, they said this in an official topic (things we know).

I only hope they don’t need too much time to fix it.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Okay. So would you nerf Guardians’ Ring of Warding because I’m a bad player and run into it all the time and die?

Terrible.. terrible.. analogy.

1. RoW knocks you down once every 40s.
2. 99% of people wont continue to run into it more than twice (or once for that matter) because they physically saw themselves hit a wall.
3. RoW lasts 5s rather than 7s of RoF
4. Hamguards are not even meta…
5. There have been 0 qq posts about RoW
6. Last but not lease, RoW can’t apply 6 to 9 burn stacks, causing 1,312 to 1965 dps. Add the Ele 10 Might stack average, that’s 1588 and 2,384 dps respectfully. I’ve seen as high as 12 burn stacks from bad players walking in and out of the ring…

I wasn’t going to reply but I couldn’t help myself.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

Burning is historically too strong in GW2.

Anet decreased every condi formula but you couldn’t stack burning before and the lower burning value we have now is not enough to balance the fact burning now stacks.

That’s all, for this reason burning requires a different formula like i said.

And btw Anet knows about this issue, they said this in an official topic (things we know).

I only hope they don’t need too much time to fix it.

Every other condition but burning and sometimes confusion are way too weak to be worth investing in. Burning alone doesn’t justify building condi that’s why bunker guard and cele ele are more useful than the condi versions.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: Bacon.1835

Bacon.1835

I’d be happy with conditions being nerfed if they are then allowed to benefit from damage modifiers like close to death. This would help out in PvP but preserve some of the new sinister builds we are seeing in PvE

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Posted by: Reicta.2178

Reicta.2178

I agree with saiyan. People in this forum mostly complain about d/d eles and pu mesmers and also burning, but when you ask them about the classes they think need a nerf burn guards and burn engis rarely make the top of the list. They only seem to put d/d eles at the top of the list along with mesmers. The issue seems to be that d/d ele already had high sustain before the patch and after the update it got a damage boost with the burn upgrade. Making d/d ele high sustain and high condi damage. If that is the problem, then the solution is simply to reduce burn stacks on d/d ele skills.

Hell, burn guards are not even the meta for that class, so it’s weird to ask for a nerf when its damage is considered lower than a phys dps medi guard. For engi, i’m not sure what the meta is but i rarely hear people complain about them despite their access to burns.

This 100%, seriously.

If only burning damage gets nerfed, the underperformers of condition damage will take the brunt of the nerf. D/D eles will be fine; medi guards will be “fine,” as will rifle engis. Their specs will stay (mostly) the same. But burn guards won’t be fine; they rely so heavily on burning that they’ll either do enough damage to be viable or they won’t, there’s no inbetween because they have nothing else. P/P condi engineer will go from endangered to extinct—they used to pressure by applying everything but they can’t keep up with stacking conditions. Their couple burns will be even less effective than before and more rifle engis will take their place.

I really think burning is a case that certain specs make it overtuned, not as a mechanic in general. If it was generally nerfed, I think its damage should be spread over a longer period, not lowered. Or maybe give the true burn-reliant specs a trait that increases the frequency of burn ticks (to what it is now) and let the specs who have burning as icing on the cake deal the same damage over a longer period of time, which fits in well with their bruiser style of gameplay anyway.

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Posted by: chibbi.3706

chibbi.3706

I wouldn’t nerf ele’s damage which is honestly not that high, but rather their ridiculous sutain and/or mobility.

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Posted by: Velimere.7685

Velimere.7685

Elementalist is fine.

Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.

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Posted by: blubberblasen.3901

blubberblasen.3901

I wouldn’t nerf ele’s damage which is honestly not that high, but rather their ridiculous sutain and/or mobility.

no,no,no
look @ april 13 patch … which killed ele for 1 year..
NO
before nerf ele buff other classes..

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Posted by: PainbowBrite.3785

PainbowBrite.3785

So let me get this straight, in a meta FLOODED with extreme burst, your problem is burn? Let’s face it, most classes that utilize burn, have to rely on it, because they don’t have many cover condis. Nerf it, and you Nerf the ability for condis to remain remotely competative. My engineers Blowtorch hits for 18k from within 250, but guess what, it usually only lasts 2-3 ticks. There are so many classes with reliable and accessible clears, that condition classes are hard to come by these days.

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Posted by: Ara.4569

Ara.4569

So let me get this straight, in a meta FLOODED with extreme burst, your problem is burn?

Yes, because burning, as is, is an extreme burst. As already suggested, lower damage and increase duration. Also, reduce base damage and increase condition damage multiplier.

Fire fields are too good, they apply the strongest condition and allow for might stacking. And water fields are also too good for sustain.

Either reduce the duration of those fields, remove some finishers, reduce the effects of those combos or increase the cooldown on fields and/or finishers.

Balance team is a bunch of clowns, hurting the game to the full extent of their abilities.

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Posted by: Archon.6480

Archon.6480

No, elementalist is too strong.

They have too much access to too many skills that are mostly too strong. Have fun fighting two at once. The song “ring of fire” comes to mind. My complaint is they are not punished for repeated mistakes. The WTS is going to be hilarious when we get to see two of these at once behind the hands of highly skilled players.

I would concede d/d Elems are fine, if other classes would be given more access to interrupts. About the only way I see to effectively kill these. Also, get rid of their access to stability so we can punish them for stupid positioning and mindless skill spam.

Jade Quarry – Esparie
Illustrious Exhausted Primordial Legendary Druid, and Mesmer for fun
PvE | PvP (1500)| WvW | Fractals | Dungeons

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

i got 12 stacks of burning on me in a teamfight today, but i just blasted my clerics healing shouts with soldier runes and i was fine.

just have a dude with shouts and soldier runes on your team and chill w them.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

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Posted by: style.6173

style.6173

Burning itself is fine. What needs to be nerfed is how easy it is for Ele and burn guardian to STACK burns.