Guild Wars 2

BlackTruth.6813:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Saiyan.1704:

Eles beings this tool out every 10s… you can imagine its AoE usefulness now.

Nobody uses RoF every 10s, you would have to skip several skills just for this.

Sad part is they can. Can’t believe the ele main doesn’t know how his own class works. Basically in a team fight if you ring of fire and people pay attention to that, that’s a good dodge bait and if people don’t dodge then gg 3 stacks of burning every time you go in and out.

…and everytime you walk into Wall of Fear you get feared. So stop walking into it?

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

BlackTruth.6813:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Saiyan.1704:

Eles beings this tool out every 10s… you can imagine its AoE usefulness now.

Nobody uses RoF every 10s, you would have to skip several skills just for this.

Sad part is they can. Can’t believe the ele main doesn’t know how his own class works. Basically in a team fight if you ring of fire and people pay attention to that, that’s a good dodge bait and if people don’t dodge then gg 3 stacks of burning every time you go in and out.

…and everytime you walk into Wall of Fear you get feared. So stop walking into it?

This reminds of FotM zergs that keep getting feared off a cliff by 1 wall just hilarious.

people are just upset that they cant run Zerk or cele armor with no condi-removal traits anymore. If they nerf condi, they should take every power skill/trait and nerf it by about 20%…

Elementalist is balanced.

Velimere.7685:

Elementalist is balanced.

You REALLY think a Warrior or a ranger or even a Necromancer adds as much to a team than an Elementalist, the class that gets stacked in higher tiers and even rerolled to? What sense of Balance do you go by? Duel room balance?

ronpierce.2760:

Velimere.7685:

Elementalist is balanced.

You REALLY think a Warrior or a ranger or even a Necromancer adds as much to a team than an Elementalist, the class that gets stacked in higher tiers and even rerolled to? What sense of Balance do you go by? Duel room balance?

You seem to have your mind made up on multiple accounts including why I think what I do, so why even ask?

Eles have been over the top for awhile now.

Let’s give another class a turn

Eles are just fine.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

BlackTruth.6813:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Saiyan.1704:

Eles beings this tool out every 10s… you can imagine its AoE usefulness now.

Nobody uses RoF every 10s, you would have to skip several skills just for this.

Sad part is they can. Can’t believe the ele main doesn’t know how his own class works. Basically in a team fight if you ring of fire and people pay attention to that, that’s a good dodge bait and if people don’t dodge then gg 3 stacks of burning every time you go in and out.

…and everytime you walk into Wall of Fear you get feared. So stop walking into it?

what’s the cooldown on fear wall and what’s the cooldown on fire ring?

I agree ele needs to be toned down a bit, but I can’t believe people complain about RoF. I’m sorry but if you cannot get out of it without getting 3 stacks of burning (dogde is enough) and then you walk back in and get 6 stacks, then it’s entirely your own fault.

Laraley.7695:

I agree ele needs to be toned down a bit, but I can’t believe people complain about RoF. I’m sorry but if you cannot get out of it without getting 3 stacks of burning (dogde is enough) and then you walk back in and get 6 stacks, then it’s entirely your own fault.

Murphy’s Law – Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

It’s the fact that Ele casts it 3 or 4 times in any given fight. Two Ele’s on the same team? The odds quadrippled.

It’s bound to happen and there are several reasons as to why it wouldn’t be the persons fault.

Saiyan.1704:

Laraley.7695:

I agree ele needs to be toned down a bit, but I can’t believe people complain about RoF. I’m sorry but if you cannot get out of it without getting 3 stacks of burning (dogde is enough) and then you walk back in and get 6 stacks, then it’s entirely your own fault.

Murphy’s Law – Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

It’s the fact that Ele casts it 3 or 4 times in any given fight. Two Ele’s on the same team? The odds quadrippled.

It’s bound to happen and there are several reasons as to why it wouldn’t be the persons fault.

What’s up with this logic? Are you saying it’s not the player’s fault that he didn’t dodge something he should have dodge? The game can’t be balanced around bad players. Any class will cast their hard hitting attacks several times in a fight, you still need to dodge it, period. The ele can’t even make the players walk through RoF several times, it only happens when someone is just playing badly.

Laraley.7695:

Saiyan.1704:

Laraley.7695:

I agree ele needs to be toned down a bit, but I can’t believe people complain about RoF. I’m sorry but if you cannot get out of it without getting 3 stacks of burning (dogde is enough) and then you walk back in and get 6 stacks, then it’s entirely your own fault.

Murphy’s Law – Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

It’s the fact that Ele casts it 3 or 4 times in any given fight. Two Ele’s on the same team? The odds quadrippled.

It’s bound to happen and there are several reasons as to why it wouldn’t be the persons fault.

What’s up with this logic? Are you saying it’s not the player’s fault that he didn’t dodge something he should have dodge? The game can’t be balanced around bad players. Any class will cast their hard hitting attacks several times in a fight, you still need to dodge it, period. The ele can’t even make the players walk through RoF several times, it only happens when someone is just playing badly.

Have to agree with laraley for once, if youre crossing over or entering rof that usually means youre very bad. That ring does nothing if you stand in it… It’s almost good for nothing more than 2k dmg vs someone who knows how to deal with it. I absolutely never have trouble with ring of fire.

This constant request to balance for bad players gives me facepalm. Looking at other QQ/whining threads, it’s clear that it’s the same people posting again and again. Their logic is also weird:

“I made bad plays, so what? The game should be balanced for bad players”

“I don’t believe signet Necro can win Ele, I won’t listen, I only want to complain”

I feel like there is nothing we can do. It’s like the Obama birther movements. People have already made up their mind that Ele is OP. They just keep looking for excuses to confirm their belief, doesn’t matter how ridiculous the excuses are.

This constant request to balance for bad players gives me facepalm. Looking at other QQ/whining threads, it’s clear that it’s the same people posting again and again. Their logic is also weird:

“I made bad plays, so what? The game should be balanced for bad players”

“I don’t believe signet Necro can win Ele, I won’t listen, I only want to complain”

I feel like there is nothing we can do. It’s like the Obama birther movement. People have already made up their mind that Ele is OP. They just keep looking for excuses to confirm their belief, doesn’t matter how ridiculous the excuses are.

It’s just as sad when people can’t see how OP their class is and defends it because they enjoy their crutch… Bad players complaining doesn’t cause a class to get stacked in the highest tier PvP in the game. If anything, Ele is MORE of an issue in high tier than it even is in low tier because low tier Elementalists aren’t that good at proper ability rotations.

And yes signet Necro can kill Eles, considering its basically their primary niche. Congrats you have 1 (maybe two with Mesmer boon rip) real major counters, one of which relies entirely on a gimmick, and the other being the other notably OP class…

So if < a class you perceive as weak > can kill Ele, it’s because of gimmicks? And if < a class you perceive as strong > can kill Ele, it’s because of OP?

The class gets stacked because:
1) it’s fun to play
2) more importantly, because the top players has already mained it. Do you think Nos/5gauge/Toker plays Necro/Engi/Thief because those classes are OP? No. It’s because those are their main. They are top tier, and they play those classes because they enjoy it. The same for Phantaram/Wakkey. They play Ele because it’s their main. Saying they purposely stacking Ele is just confirmation bias.

3 months ago, when Engi was god, did you say 5gauge played Engi because it’s OP?

2 years ago, when Ele was bottom tier, did you say Phantaram played Ele because they wanted to stack Ele?

Look at the situation more objectively and improve your play instead of complaining about Ring of Fire.

Forget it. I’m done trying to get people to stop defending silly things. If you want to believe that Elementalist is used only because its fun and its in no way too powerful, be my guest, but its pathetic. It’s not hard to tell when something is having a bit too easy of a time being strong and being favored by the better players (to the point that some actually learn the class simply because it is better than their previous class).

Say what you want, but I’ll have no sympathy when your class is properly balanced and you suddenly start complaining that it’s “objectively” too weak at that point.

Use your logic, instead of ad hominem. Saying I’m pathetic while you’re complaining about Ring of Fire doesn’t help your cause.

Not being able to refute any of the things I said doesn’t help it either.

Peace.

What is there to refute? D/D Ele is incredibly easy to play and perform well with. Disregarding the top 0.1% percentage of players, who are good enough to play the class they like and still get results, Ele when played by bad players still allows them perform at a level above them.

Aktium.9506:

What is there to refute? D/D Ele is incredibly easy to play and perform well with. Disregarding the top 0.1% percentage of players, who are good enough to play the class they like and still get results, Ele when played by bad players still allows them perform at a level above them.

Yeah its pretty easy to pick up and faceroll with. Players in my guild who never played it before won duels vs ppl on their mains.

Sunshine.5014:

Use your logic, instead of ad hominem. Saying I’m pathetic while you’re complaining about Ring of Fire doesn’t help your cause.

Not being able to refute any of the things I said doesn’t help it either.

Peace.

First of all, I didn’t say anything about ring of fire, you’re putting other peoples’ words in my mouth. And I said it is pathetic to defend obviously over the top classes, as if shaving them down a bit would ruin your beloved class and build that has m reigned supreme for well over a year now.

As for Ring of Fire, if you want to get technical, yes, the skill IS a bit crazy considering a celestial build with only a few stacks of might can have a single application from RoF deal about 500-900 damage (power) and 4k burning over 5 seconds. That’s a 4.5-4.9k wall that lasts 5 seconds and is usable every 10 seconds. The first few may be easy to dodge, but undoubtedly that’s a lot of haphazard damage that can be done in a moving environment. People don’t have the luxury of dodging every single one, not to mention that it also applies a rather thoughtless blind as well.

Point is, the skill is HEAVILY rewarded even for a single undodged pass-through for a skill with nearly 50% uptime and no deep skill needed to utilize it. 4.5k damage (if not able to be cleansed) by a single application. That WILL hit more than once in a given fight almost undoubtedly. Especially since elementalists have an extended melee range, they can play around that field fairly potently, and that’s only a single skill. It requires little precision since it’s a lingering field, short cooldown etc. I don’t even know what to relate that to, but the area denial is incredibly potent, and with the low CD and other condition covers, it’s not always as simple as “just use condition clears, ezpz!!!”

Simply put, that skill required so tiny skill for it to haphazardly ruin someone’s day. And that type of ring is that much more potent being forced to fight on a circle already.

Regardless, I wasn’t even upset about that skill. The class naturally has it all. It has amazing team condition removal, decent healing, amazing self boons and team boon support, incredibly tanky, easy (and frankly low-risk) burn application which adds blinds through fights and still manages to get 4-6k fire grabs and hard hitting Burning Speeds.

It’s not “balanced”. It has too much going for it at once, and some of its most destructive skills (Like RoF) are too easy to use and is rewarded too highly. Sorry to say it, but there really aren’t classes on that same level right now, except maybe Mesmer ONLY because it can land burst in a safe (ish) manner, and has a lot of instant CC.

Why is it countered by CeleNecro? Because the necromancer makes the kitten Ele KILL ITSELF, even elementalists can’t handle their own burns being transferred back and their booms being converted. Hence: it’s niche. It’s not the necromancer being super strong. It’s burns being returned and plentiful boons working against them, both things Ele specializes in are Necromancer’s niche counter specialties.

Buuuut alas, 50% ring up times that can do close to 5k damage per application and require little skill to actually use is totally fine and balanced, everyone else has to learn to be good so Elementalists don’t have to.

Blinding Ashes is a fair trait for a class that has hands down the worst elite skills in the game. everyone forgets that Ele does no damage in earth or water. Air is also very weak unless you are running a scepter build. “We all know scepter isnt good for team comp” Now what does that leave us with? Fire, the only trait line we have that does damage. Nerf fire then what do you have? Anet made the mistake with forcing Ele to have to trait in water and Arcana. They have to go together the way Precison and Ferocity does on a burst build. So yeah d/d ele has very high burn damage. Ele cant apply any other condi pressure other than burn. I bet all the pros just frown when they read these petty forums about daily nerfs…. I wonder what the next class the community is going to whine about after Ele is finally nerfed back to the 2 year ago Ele

Velimere.7685:

Eles are just fine.

Agreed. Eles are just fine in a world were eles are supposed to be OP. They are not fine in a world where classes should be balanced.

Assassin O.9367:

I bet all the pros just frown when they read these petty forums about daily nerfs…. I wonder what the next class the community is going to whine about after Ele is finally nerfed back to the 2 year ago Ele

QFT.

ronpierce.2760:

It’s just as sad when people can’t see how OP their class is and defends it because they enjoy their crutch… Bad players complaining doesn’t cause a class to get stacked in the highest tier PvP in the game. If anything, Ele is MORE of an issue in high tier than it even is in low tier because low tier Elementalists aren’t that good at proper ability rotations.

And yes signet Necro can kill Eles, considering its basically their primary niche. Congrats you have 1 (maybe two with Mesmer boon rip) real major counters, one of which relies entirely on a gimmick, and the other being the other notably OP class…

I think a lot of it comes from people arguing from their egos. People want to think to themselves, “Hey! I can win most of my fights with little effort. I must be REALLY good at this!”. Those people don’t want to be told and don’t want to consider the fact that their success is due to any imbalance in the game. They would prefer to think to themselves that all those wins are due to their superior skill against and/or the complete failings of their opponents.

You will not be able to convince such people of any perceived imbalances in their class because it clashes with their self-perceived notions of how good they are in the game. They would much rather you “L2P” and adapt against their class imbalance than be forced to admit that they are not as good as their imaginations have told them they are.

Thanks.

Michaeas Magister.1589:

ronpierce.2760:

It’s just as sad when people can’t see how OP their class is and defends it because they enjoy their crutch… Bad players complaining doesn’t cause a class to get stacked in the highest tier PvP in the game. If anything, Ele is MORE of an issue in high tier than it even is in low tier because low tier Elementalists aren’t that good at proper ability rotations.

And yes signet Necro can kill Eles, considering its basically their primary niche. Congrats you have 1 (maybe two with Mesmer boon rip) real major counters, one of which relies entirely on a gimmick, and the other being the other notably OP class…

I think a lot of it comes from people arguing from their egos. People want to think to themselves, “Hey! I can win most of my fights with little effort. I must be REALLY good at this!”. Those people don’t want to be told and don’t want to consider the fact that their success is due to any imbalance in the game. They would prefer to think to themselves that all those wins are due to their superior skill against and/or the complete failings of their opponents.

You will not be able to convince such people of any perceived imbalances in their class because it clashes with their self-perceived notions of how good they are in the game. They would much rather you “L2P” and adapt against their class imbalance than be forced to admit that they are not as good as their imaginations have told them they are.

Thanks.

^this

philheat.3956:

I have the impression if Anet toned down Elementalist (damage/sustain) and burning (general formula and stacks quantity) meta could be really interesting.

Probably Mesmer needs some other adjustement, (PU and CS) but Ele and burning are broken without any doubt, so I’d start with this fix.

Thoughts?

As long as any proposed changes do not negatively impact other game modes, sure, however, since condis are still completely kittened in comparison to zerk in pve, and also larger scale group fights in WvW, I can not support any ideas to even further bring them down.

Please come up with something that will achieve what you have in mind without negative impact outside of this game mode, then it will get much better support.

Tongku.5326:

As long as any proposed changes do not negatively impact other game modes, sure, however, since condis are still completely kittened in comparison to zerk in pve, and also larger scale group fights in WvW, I can not support any ideas to even further bring them down.

Please come up with something that will achieve what you have in mind without negative impact outside of this game mode, then it will get much better support.

Nerf Burning base damage, buff Bleeding and Poison damage, and maybe throw some buffs to condi Guardians and Engis to compensate for the significant DPS loss that they’ll experience from the Burning nerf? Would that be a good compromise?

Soryuju.8164:

Nerf Burning base damage, buff Bleeding and Poison damage, and maybe throw some buffs to condi Guardians and Engis to compensate for the significant DPS loss that they’ll experience from the Burning nerf? Would that be a good compromise?

No they just need to nerf the only OP build that uses burning.

style.6173:

Velimere.7685:

Eles are just fine.

Agreed. Eles are just fine in a world were eles are supposed to be OP. They are not fine in a world where classes should be balanced.

Eles are balanced.

Just so we are all on the same page: DD Elementalist

The issue has little to do with ring of fire. I am more annoyed with the amount of fire that can be dealt out with things like Cleansing Fire and the fact that you will be blinded every 5s. Mesmer counters DD great, I know, but other classes have difficulty, even with generosity and hydromancy sigils.

Archon.6480:

Just so we are all on the same page: DD Elementalist

The issue has little to do with ring of fire. I am more annoyed with the amount of fire that can be dealt out with things like Cleansing Fire and the fact that you will be blinded every 5s. Mesmer counters DD great, I know, but other classes have difficulty, even with generosity and hydromancy sigils.

Signet Necro counters dd ele just as much if not better than Mesmer.

Phaeton.9582:

Soryuju.8164:

Nerf Burning base damage, buff Bleeding and Poison damage, and maybe throw some buffs to condi Guardians and Engis to compensate for the significant DPS loss that they’ll experience from the Burning nerf? Would that be a good compromise?

No they just need to nerf the only OP build that uses burning.

Condition specs are subpar even burn guard and ele have faded only condition mesmer seems noticeable but bleeding and poison are pretty weak they failed what they tried to accomplish.

It’s just D/D tbh. I don’t know why a spec that duels so well escapes so easy and can potentially delay a 1v2 easier than any other class. This BS is just enforcing the meta, I’d rather have backpoint ranger back and I wanna see things like backpoint Guardian.

And D/D ele isn’t even mechanically hard. All you do is use Drake’s Breath and Burning Speed (which is also an evade and all of Ele’s attacks that are reliable for wearing people down are on such a low cool down) for when it’s up while you sustain. It takes no skill, it’s literally just another evade spam class but so much tankier than Mesmer or Ranger.

If they nerf D/D ele specifically, then the meta will probably be more interesting rather than the “top teams” just stacking two of these boring BS spec.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Archon.6480:

Just so we are all on the same page: DD Elementalist

The issue has little to do with ring of fire. I am more annoyed with the amount of fire that can be dealt out with things like Cleansing Fire and the fact that you will be blinded every 5s. Mesmer counters DD great, I know, but other classes have difficulty, even with generosity and hydromancy sigils.

Signet Necro counters dd ele just as much if not better than Mesmer.

Yeah, I hear that said a lot. I admit it could be a learn to spec sort of thing. I can tell ya melle builds seem pretty weak, but I haven’t been actively changing spec to counter them.

Sagat.3285:

Phaeton.9582:

Soryuju.8164:

Nerf Burning base damage, buff Bleeding and Poison damage, and maybe throw some buffs to condi Guardians and Engis to compensate for the significant DPS loss that they’ll experience from the Burning nerf? Would that be a good compromise?

No they just need to nerf the only OP build that uses burning.

Condition specs are subpar even burn guard and ele have faded only condition mesmer seems noticeable but bleeding and poison are pretty weak they failed what they tried to accomplish.

I meant cele ele :o

Phaeton.9582:

Sagat.3285:

Phaeton.9582:

Soryuju.8164:

Nerf Burning base damage, buff Bleeding and Poison damage, and maybe throw some buffs to condi Guardians and Engis to compensate for the significant DPS loss that they’ll experience from the Burning nerf? Would that be a good compromise?

No they just need to nerf the only OP build that uses burning.

Condition specs are subpar even burn guard and ele have faded only condition mesmer seems noticeable but bleeding and poison are pretty weak they failed what they tried to accomplish.

I meant cele ele :o

They should seriously make boon hate more common they are trying with necro but in different ways for each class. Boons are on a rampage.

What i did not understand is why flame beath and ring of fire got so many stacks. The damage from flame breath alone was about doubled with the burn patch. Of course this will push dagger and when cele ele ist already good and in the meta what do you expect from buffing their damage ….

Wolfric.9380:

What i did not understand is why flame beath and ring of fire got so many stacks. The damage from flame breath alone was about doubled with the burn patch. Of course this will push dagger and when cele ele ist already good and in the meta what do you expect from buffing their damage ….

Flame breath is easy to dodge and ring of fire is just a ring, you don’t need to go into it back and forth, just bait it with range, even warriors these days with longbow have more range than the ele.

So many classes are more OP than the ele right now. Guardians and mesmers can 1-shot any ele if they know what they are doing. Warrior can 1v2 people with rampage, same with Lich. Classes have Stealth, quickness on demand, eles got nothing of that and the lowest armor/hp. Learn to hit them at the right moment and they’ll lose.

Maybe you should also use more defensive amulets like the eles are forced to use, instead of using burst amulets and complaining about getting outlast by someone who knows how to dodge.

It’s a skill/build problem, not a class balance problem.

Every single team runs 2!!! dd eles… if this is not a proof that it’s OP then I don’t know what is… They like it….? Sure buddy sit down…!

You cannot have any logical explanation why every WTS team has 2 elementalists apart of mentioning OPness.

Your defending ability could be handy if you were a bunker… But no you are defending the D/D ele…

What?

Oh, and PM me please when the next WTS gonna be won by a double engi-ranger-necro-warrior setup…

Until this happens…

Aggrostemma.1703:

Every single team runs 2!!! dd eles… if this is not a proof that it’s OP then I don’t know what is… They like it….? Sure buddy sit down…!

You cannot have any logical explanation why every WTS team has 2 elementalists apart of mentioning OPness.

Your defending ability could be handy if you were a bunker… But no you are defending the D/D ele…

What?

Oh, and PM me please when the next WTS gonna be won by a double engi-ranger-necro-warrior setup…

Until this happens…

I played a game today with 5 rangers (3 on one side and 2 on the other), I was the only ele. so really you can say that about any class stacking.

Aggrostemma.1703:

Every single team runs 2!!! dd eles… if this is not a proof that it’s OP then I don’t know what is… They like it….? Sure buddy sit down…!

You cannot have any logical explanation why every WTS team has 2 elementalists apart of mentioning OPness..

That’s because the meta was double support cleanse. Shoutbow died which was the current holder of 1, often both spots. Shoutbow was considered better and actively winning over ele support comps in the pro scene. With their demise d/d ele was all that was left.

Now I agree the burning ticks vs duration on drakes need to be adjusted, RoF is an L2P issue. I think they need to buff other support specs to be viable again because ele is the only one left and that’s why they are taking 2 spots.

Nerfing other aspects of the ele just breaks the class to un-viable again. It’s unfortunate but the class itself was designed poorly and due to this they have to do major rework to fix the class and allow it to leave cele d/d in pvp.

And lets be honest, Anet will never do it. They couldn’t even give us a real elite for 3 years and now with the specs they somehow made another one more useless than fgs… Anet is incompetent when it comes to balancing pvp and too prideful to work with pros and work with the community. If they would just communicate in discussion the forms could be a wonderful place, and the game much better for everyone; but instead they isolate themselves and we all just eat each other alive in pointless arguments that wont ever reach anets Faraday cage of a headquarters.