Guild Wars 2

Is anything ever be done about Elementalist and Guardian regarding the huge amount of unusable utilities?

These two professions currently possess the biggest number of unusable utilities across the board, out of all 9 professions and all game mode, with ele clearly coming on top as the profession with the worst number of utilities and elites

This wasn’t meant to be an ele solo thread but I feel the need to continue on it for now.

Continuing on the elementalist, let’s not even mention the fact that ele has received an intrinsical number of nerfs out of all profession that have killed multiple builds since launch, the class also it’s the only one that has a number of utilities left unupdated since launch, utilities that actually got nerfed to the ground before launch at the end of the beta weekend 2; utilities that have not been used both in PvE or PvP since then.

Talking about arcane skills, from arcane blast to arcane shield, these utilities not only have really pathetic effects and no useful traits linked to them but..they also have ridiculous CD (like 30s CD for a skill that does less dmg than a war axe auto and ofc the utility does just that ..dmg) ; there is also arcane shield which barely block a revenant auto but it’s on 75s CD

And what about :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Power and compare it to
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Intelligence

Let’s move to conjure skills, who can’t forget about this?

Was it fun, unnecessary?…..Doesn’t even matter, while not being a dungeon runner I can see how the nerf was needed but..a big but…were the conjure made useful at all since then?…no ofc not.

Left there to rot, no work necessary, the angry and petty community has been satisfied, the devs gave them the blood they were craving..the dev job is done….“mic drop”

Finally we have signets and glyphs, they’re sporadically used in pve and just few of them ( signet of fire and glyph of power/storms )

The signets on ele are again the worst respect to all other professions that have access to this type of utilities , in most cases the active is bland and really weak, somehow compensate by a somehow useful passive ( signet of fire/earth)

The glyphs, again huge CD and pitiful effects in most cases( or no effects at all in case of Less Glyph of Elementals ), to add salt to the injury eles still have inscription trait not working but I guess it was of primary importance to first fix “flash-freeze” as we don’t want the petty and vocal minority to shout nerf for too long, do we?!

The frustration and displeasement are an all time high, the ele community has been asking for years now for decent changes on the utilities for this class and also for the introduction of a viable power build.

I’m not that arrogant to say that I can speak for the whole ele community but..I do believe that the majority of players who bought GW2 and mained an ele after that, originally thought they would have been able to play something similar to this:

And what we’ve got in return is something completely different and definitely not wanted

On the guardian now.

The class it’s one of my alt-mains and think to know enough about it to speak frankly about its current condition.

After ele, this profession is the next when it comes to ridiculous CD on skill and poor effects, ofc it’s not as bad as on ele with arcane and conjure skills, but pretty close thx to consecrations, spirit weapons and signets

Like ele the guard have to suffer because it’s a bunker profession from conceptual design in a game mode that favours the “holding points” strategy.

In the name of this esport utopia both guardian and ele during these years have been hammered extensively and with abandon , luckily for guards, the nerfs sent in their direction were not as severe as with ele.

Specifically the sustain of these professions has been hammered down to a critical level where anything outside pure bunker, will require an incredible amount of effort to remain alive long enough to accomplish anything…most times that level of effort won’t even be enough.

I know all about the community hatred for bunkers, it has been the same for years now. The devs have been extremely harsh….but all in the wrong way

For years the devs have been acting in the same way, they could have specifically nerfed bunker specs while improving build diversity..but they did not, instead they nerfed/deleted everything usable around the bunker specs

It’s called moving forward while covering..your behind, in order to maintain alive their “esport utopia” they needed bunker specs to sustain their only game mode which is centered around a holding points strategy.

To please the angry mob, they nerfed all the wrong things..just to quiet down the forum as ofc for as long as they read the word nerf, the bloodshot eyed “warriors” will retreat to their corner..

As a result of this procedure, we’ve reached 2016, 4 years after launch , we’ve reached a situation where certain professions have seen nothing but buffs and new design iterations on their utilities while on the other side we see profession whose utilities have not been changed since pre-launch

What else there is to say? Such discrepancy and hypocrisy from the devs….that not only cannot be openly denounced but that it also mostly ignored by the cunning and petty part of the community.

Supreme.3164:

Is anything ever be done about Elementalist and Guardian regarding the huge amount of unusable utilities?

These two professions currently possess the biggest number of unusable utilities across the board, out of all 9 professions and all game mode, with ele clearly coming on top as the profession with the worst number of utilities and elites

This wasn’t meant to be an ele solo thread but I feel the need to continue on it for now.

Still about the elementalist, let’s not mention the fact that ele has received an intrinsical number of nerfs out of all profession that have killed multiple builds since launch, the class also it’s the only one that has a number of utilities left unupdated since launch, utilities that actually got nerfed to the ground before launch at the end of the beta weekend 2; utilities that have not been used both in PvE or PvP since then.

Talking about arcane skills, from arcane blast to arcane shield, these utilities not only have really pathetic effects and no useful traits linked to them but..they also have ridiculous CD (like 30s CD for a skill that does less dmg than a war axe auto and ofc the utility does just that ..dmg; there is also arcane shield which barely block a revenant auto but it’s on 75s CD

And what about :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Power and compare it to
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Intelligence

Let’s move to conjure skills, who can’t forget about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK1N_vqJPac

Was it fun, unnecessary?…..Doesn’t even matter, while not being a dungeon runner I can see how the nerf was needed but..a big but…were the conjure made useful at all since then?…no ofc not.

Left there to rot, no work necessary, the angry and petty community has been satisfied, the devs gave them the blood they were craving..the dev job is done….“mic drop”

Finally we have signets and glyphs, they’re sporadically used in pve and just few of them ( signet of fire and glyph of power/storms )

The signets on ele are again the worst respect to all other professions that have access to this type of utilities , in most cases the active is bland and really weak, somehow compensate by a somehow useful passive ( signet of fire/earth)

The glyphs, again huge CD and pitiful effects in most cases( or no effects at all in case of Less Glyph of Elementals ), to add salt to the injury eles still have inscription trait not working but I guess it was of primary importance to first fix “flash-freeze” as we don’t want the petty and vocal minority to shout nerf for too long, do we?!

The frustration and displeasement are an all time high, the ele community has been asking for years now for decent changes on the utilities for this class and also for the introduction of a viable power build.

I’m not that arrogant to say that I can speak for the whole ele community but..I do believe that the majority of players who bought GW2 and mained an ele after that, originally thought they would have been able to play something similar to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KGCVq_Papw

And what we’ve got in return is something completely different and definitely not wanted

A lot of classes seemed to have a lot of unbalanced utilities…too bad it would be fun to see more then 14 builds on 9 classes in a pvp season

Could it just be that ele has so much junk crammed into its weapon skill/atunements that the utilities are next to unnecessary anyway XD

That and guard have such nice class skills choking up their f-bar XD

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Could it just be that ele has so much junk crammed into its weapon skill/atunements that the utilities are next to unnecessary anyway XD

That and guard have such nice class skills choking up their f-bar XD

Maybe we should put you on an ele with an untraited build ( not trait or amulet used -not even healing skill and utilities ) face off against all other professions and see how much your statement stands true

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

I don’t know of how much use could it be to apply say kitten burning every 20s CD or so, elemental surge is not underrated…the condi output is simply pathetically low for the huge investment necessary and the added ferocity does little in the end of the day

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

The same can be said about most classess in the game. A perfect example is warrior – the guy that gets buffed constantly (since a little before Hot to be more precise) and still cannot be considered competitive in pvp no matter what you choose, cannot dish out more than rifle f1 in wvw with about the same utilities as pvp and runs the same banner/ps build since forever in pve.

At the same time ele is the best dps in pve, the best support in pvp and a good choice for wvw.

Not trying to say ele utilities don’t need focus, more like the fact that if you want this to be fixed, classess need a major rework across the board and i don’t see this happening. Not a fan of more power creep so you should take from somewhere to give to this.

Marius.3185:

The same can be said about most classess in the game. A perfect example is warrior – the guy that gets buffed constantly (since a little before Hot to be more precise) and still cannot be considered competitive in pvp no matter what you choose, cannot dish out more than rifle f1 in wvw with about the same utilities as pvp and runs the same banner/ps build since forever in pve.

At the same time ele is the best dps in pve, the best support in pvp and a good choice for wvw.

Not trying to say ele utilities don’t need focus, more like the fact that if you want this to be fixed, classess need a major rework across the board and i don’t see this happening. Not a fan of more power creep so you should take from somewhere to give to this.

I will not discuss about the difference between warrior and other professions, that’s the stuff for another thread, for now I’ll focus on this thread where the title clearly states : biggest number of crap utilities and for crap I mean “completely unusable”.

Respect to warrior or any other profession ele has the biggest number of unusable utilities and this is not my personal view, this is what anybody can see with its own eyes for clear confirmation.

Also I won’t discuss about who is meta or not as it does not concern this thread and instead let’s compare warrior and ele when it comes to usable utilities across the whole game.

I see, you see the warrior class able to slot: stances, banners, shouts and rage utilities and be able to create practical builds in their own merit.
Now take ele, if you only try to slot a single conjure or arcane skill, you basically kitten yourself, like deleting a whole utility slot for nothing at all, and same thing could be said for signets and glyph just some pve builds use at least one of each.

You have no traits, synergies that would benefit you anyhow by slotting an arcane or conjure specifically, this goes for both PvP and PvE and this goes only for ele

In the end I’m not talking about “weak” utilities…I’m talking about completely unusable utilities, they serve no purpose other than allow ele to reach the ideal number of utilities available for every class, that would be 24 utilities in total.

We can talk meta all we want but in the end ele still use the same healbot meta build, the same traitlines and utilities since launch..more or less. This time we have a “heal more and do no dmg” variant of the same healbot style; by contrast you can see warriors able to have fun with condi builds, support builds, cc lock and direct dmg.

You guys feel free to rip your hairs off fighting to see what the ESL kids will abuse and copy/paste after that, personally I’m only asking to see a an ele class with working 24 utilities list whether they’re all strong or not…I don’t care but at the very least they should all be usable

I’d argue that guardian is in a considerably worse state than ele from the point of view you described. I’m only talking from a PvP perspective.

Factoring the number of useful utilities, they both have about the same number of completely useless ones, but if you take into account weapon skills and traits it’s much worse for guardian.

You can play virtually any weapon with ele, and still be viable-ish outside eart/water/tempest traits, by replacing one of them with arcane/air. It’s sure as hell not competitive, but you can have fun around. I even ran a DD fresh air/electric discharge ele without tempest that was pretty fun.

Guard, on the other hand, has virtues, valor and dragonhunter – that’s it. As for weapons, most of them are slow, clunky, undrewarding and/or weak. The few ones taken complement longbow. I tried many builds, the only one that came close of not being totally useless was bunker guard, but even current warr is more bunker and dishes out way more damage.

I agree though that something must be done with these 2 classes, they have the exact same build and playstyle since HoT released and a plethora of useless skills/traits since Gw2 released.

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

Cool, please post a YouTube video you use that OP grand master trait and rekt people in tf. I’ll gladly be corrected

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

I have no idea what logic you use to say the trait is fine to be slotted, by first glance even the most uninitiated MMORPG player will say that that trait is not even GM worthy. Adept Minor at best.

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

I have no idea what logic you use to say the trait is fine to be slotted, by first glance even the most uninitiated MMORPG player will say that that trait is not even GM worthy. Adept Minor at best.

Look, i have yet to touch ele but how is a trait that give you. and i quote “so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?” not op??? It’s like, us , warrior having a trait that stun folks every few second..

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

I have no idea what logic you use to say the trait is fine to be slotted, by first glance even the most uninitiated MMORPG player will say that that trait is not even GM worthy. Adept Minor at best.

Look, i have yet to touch ele but how is a trait that give you. and i quote “so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?” not op??? It’s like, us , warrior having a trait that stun folks every few second..

What warrior trait?

Ye… right. Comparing the most flexible class to the one that has the weakest traits and utilities in the game, it feels like an insult.
Even if Ele has one viable build, they are at least meta + they are not an optional choice in raids as Guards are.

Rodzynald.5897:

<Looks at how many eles there are compared to guardians in every game mode.>

Ye… right. Comparing the most flexible class to the one that has the weakest traits and utilities in the game, it feels like an insult.
Even if Ele has one viable build, they are at least meta + they are not an optional choice in raids as Guards are.

You are forgetting this might be the first time guard is out of the meta, Guardian has been in the meta numerous times.

ele and guard have quite a bit but so do the others. its angered me since launch to have so many useless utilities, restricting builds, and making game play stale and uninspired.

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

I have no idea what logic you use to say the trait is fine to be slotted, by first glance even the most uninitiated MMORPG player will say that that trait is not even GM worthy. Adept Minor at best.

Look, i have yet to touch ele but how is a trait that give you. and i quote “so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?” not op??? It’s like, us , warrior having a trait that stun folks every few second..

What warrior trait?

i was making an anology, we have no such traits.

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

I have no idea what logic you use to say the trait is fine to be slotted, by first glance even the most uninitiated MMORPG player will say that that trait is not even GM worthy. Adept Minor at best.

Look, i have yet to touch ele but how is a trait that give you. and i quote “so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?” not op??? It’s like, us , warrior having a trait that stun folks every few second..

What warrior trait?

i was making an anology, we have no such traits.

Bad analogy though, read the ele GM again.

StickerHappy.8052:

Rodzynald.5897:

<Looks at how many eles there are compared to guardians in every game mode.>

Ye… right. Comparing the most flexible class to the one that has the weakest traits and utilities in the game, it feels like an insult.
Even if Ele has one viable build, they are at least meta + they are not an optional choice in raids as Guards are.

You are forgetting this might be the first time guard is out of the meta, Guardian has been in the meta numerous times.

They might have been meta, but for example, looking from PvP point of view, it is now quite irrelevant if they were, as now they are a rare (VIABLE) sight during pvp season.
Meta or not, just look at numbers of how many players roll with it currently. I rather see more elementalists, that were and still are in the meta.

Of course this is your personal opinion, but I don’t think you’re using Arcane properly…

As for Guardian… What?

Actually the whole post… What?

I have 5 Elementalists and 4 Guardians because they ARE the most versatile classes and I can use almost all the utilities depending on the build I’m aiming for in the game mode I’m playing (WvW/PvP)

I’d be more concerned for Warrior and Thief… But that’s my personal opinion because I don’t play those classes much and I feel forced into certain builds/traits and weapons just to be able to do anything. (more experienced players with these classes would be able to tell me otherwise)

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

I have no idea what logic you use to say the trait is fine to be slotted, by first glance even the most uninitiated MMORPG player will say that that trait is not even GM worthy. Adept Minor at best.

Look, i have yet to touch ele but how is a trait that give you. and i quote “so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?” not op??? It’s like, us , warrior having a trait that stun folks every few second..

What warrior trait?

i was making an anology, we have no such traits.

Bad analogy though, read the ele GM again.

Maybe you should re-read the bolded statement, i am going off based on what he said.

God darnit, people are either ignorant or dumb. He isn’t talking about the META, but about how literally useless (their existence in itself is a joke) some utilities are. And Anet clearly has NO interest in taking care of these issues. PvP scene currently is a joke and problem is that this is creeping more and more into WvW, as many PvP players now play there, with ranked gone.

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

I have no idea what logic you use to say the trait is fine to be slotted, by first glance even the most uninitiated MMORPG player will say that that trait is not even GM worthy. Adept Minor at best.

Look, i have yet to touch ele but how is a trait that give you. and i quote “so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?” not op??? It’s like, us , warrior having a trait that stun folks every few second..

What warrior trait?

i was making an anology, we have no such traits.

Bad analogy though, read the ele GM again.

Maybe you should re-read the bolded statement, i am going off based on what he said.

Sorry, I assumed too much about your Ele knowledge. So let me clarify that for you.

It’s 1 stack of burn, or 1s of immob. The lowest cooldown Arcane skill is 16s. Do you really think you would ever take a grand master trait that gives you a 1s immob every 16s? Not counting that you have to manage your attunement cooldown so you land in Earth every 16s.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Surge

Sunshine.5014:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

I have no idea what logic you use to say the trait is fine to be slotted, by first glance even the most uninitiated MMORPG player will say that that trait is not even GM worthy. Adept Minor at best.

Look, i have yet to touch ele but how is a trait that give you. and i quote “so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?” not op??? It’s like, us , warrior having a trait that stun folks every few second..

What warrior trait?

i was making an anology, we have no such traits.

Bad analogy though, read the ele GM again.

Maybe you should re-read the bolded statement, i am going off based on what he said.

Sorry, I assumed too much about your Ele knowledge. So let me clarify that for you.

It’s 1 stack of burn, or 1s of immob. The lowest cooldown Arcane skill is 16s. Do you really think you would ever take a grand master trait that gives you a 1s immob every 16s? Not counting that you have to manage your attunement cooldown so you land in Earth every 16s.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Surge

What if you combined that with Magnetic Aura shout and Earth Dagger 3 or staff 5 with an earth overload and some Arcane power?

Pretty sure you can pulsate 12s or more of immobilise with that combination…

Git gud
And ive looked at all subforums classes, You know what? Everybody cry on something.

I dont think Ele and Guardian have a stranglehold on terrible utilities that are taken by no one in any game mode.

Engineer has a metric ton of useless utilities. Turrets besides HT are useless, (and HT isnt really a turret, its a heal bomb). With the nerf to Slick Shoes, every single Gadget is useless. Medkit, Purge Gyro, Shredder Gyro are all useless.

None of those utilities on Engineer are used in any game mode by anyone.

ANet has a ton of skills in this game that could just use some number tweaks each patch until they are viable. This is what they should be doing with their “balance shaves” but they do not. Its one of the reasons why this game will never be like LoL and DOTA2 balance-wise. ANet just doesn’t understand that you have to move numbers around for more than just a handful of skills per patch.

sephiroth.4217:

Of course this is your personal opinion, but I don’t think you’re using Arcane properly…

As for Guardian… What?

Actually the whole post… What?

I have 5 Elementalists and 4 Guardians because they ARE the most versatile classes and I can use almost all the utilities depending on the build I’m aiming for in the game mode I’m playing (WvW/PvP)

I’d be more concerned for Warrior and Thief… But that’s my personal opinion because I don’t play those classes much and I feel forced into certain builds/traits and weapons just to be able to do anything. (more experienced players with these classes would be able to tell me otherwise)

I play only Guardian and I tested many builds in every aspect, as well as studied other professions to compare certain things.
You must have enormous luck to find yourself in encounters that make you think that almost every Guardian utility is working just fine.
I know that in WvW Guard is doing pretty well, but I’d be eager to see how you run raid with different utilities other than meta, or how well Spirit Weapons/
Shouts/Consecrations/Signets might work out in a pvp match in your hands.
No sarcasm, I am actually wondering. I find most of the Guardian’s playerbase to be dissatisfied with the current state of this profession.
Though people say that for every rule there is an exception

Sunshine.5014:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

I have no idea what logic you use to say the trait is fine to be slotted, by first glance even the most uninitiated MMORPG player will say that that trait is not even GM worthy. Adept Minor at best.

Look, i have yet to touch ele but how is a trait that give you. and i quote “so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?” not op??? It’s like, us , warrior having a trait that stun folks every few second..

What warrior trait?

i was making an anology, we have no such traits.

Bad analogy though, read the ele GM again.

Maybe you should re-read the bolded statement, i am going off based on what he said.

Sorry, I assumed too much about your Ele knowledge. So let me clarify that for you.

It’s 1 stack of burn, or 1s of immob. The lowest cooldown Arcane skill is 16s. Do you really think you would ever take a grand master trait that gives you a 1s immob every 16s? Not counting that you have to manage your attunement cooldown so you land in Earth every 16s.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Surge

Why would you ever pick a useless grandmaster trait like Elemental Surge? The trait might seem good on its own, but when you compare it to the other 2 grandmaster traits, it is is simply crap. That’s the whole thing with crappy and useless utilities. They might seem good on their own, but when compared to other picks, they are crap.

I take your ele and guard an raise you ventari, great dwarf and malyx

Pfft, I would say Warrior has the most. Hell, even some of our decent ones like Bull’s Charge are still pretty bad because they bug the heck out.

Don’t think we will ever see pathing fixed for Rush or Bull’s.

Rodzynald.5897:

sephiroth.4217:

Of course this is your personal opinion, but I don’t think you’re using Arcane properly…

As for Guardian… What?

Actually the whole post… What?

I have 5 Elementalists and 4 Guardians because they ARE the most versatile classes and I can use almost all the utilities depending on the build I’m aiming for in the game mode I’m playing (WvW/PvP)

I’d be more concerned for Warrior and Thief… But that’s my personal opinion because I don’t play those classes much and I feel forced into certain builds/traits and weapons just to be able to do anything. (more experienced players with these classes would be able to tell me otherwise)

I play only Guardian and I tested many builds in every aspect, as well as studied other professions to compare certain things.
You must have enormous luck to find yourself in encounters that make you think that almost every Guardian utility is working just fine.
I know that in WvW Guard is doing pretty well, but I’d be eager to see how you run raid with different utilities other than meta, or how well Spirit Weapons/
Shouts/Consecrations/Signets might work out in a pvp match in your hands.
No sarcasm, I am actually wondering. I find most of the Guardian’s playerbase to be dissatisfied with the current state of this profession.
Though people say that for every rule there is an exception

Consecrations are more burns, condi removal and projectile reflects… I found a Merc Amulet to go well with consecrations. (sanctuary only good for rez/stomps)

Spirit weapons – again this is a Merc Amulet build but you need to be using burns. (the sword is useless, but the bow and hammer serve well)

Shouts work really well with a clerics build combined with the extra vitality trait, running mace/shield. It can be your downfall when facing 2 necro or more due to boon corruption so you have to play smart and time which boons are applied. (refer to pics below, 1000 boons applied, 500k healing, 18 kills)

Can’t say much about signants except every class has a set of abilities that are not as great as the rest.

I am not unhappy with guard, I think it’s a fantastic class and it’s in a good spot right now. It offers different sorts of play styles, some harder to play than others to be just as effective but it’s worth the pay off when “skilled enemies” expect you to be meta and use meta combo wombos.

I’m not in the “Pro” league like the rest of the forum base but I do enjoy what get’s me a win in my “baddie” league.

Tomiyou.3790:

Sunshine.5014:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Sunshine.5014:

DavyMcB.1603:

I’ll have to disagree on arcane skills. You’re arguing from a point of ‘defensive’ utilities, which is TOTALLY NOT what arcane skills are all about. And no, arcane skills are not meant for raw damage either.

Elemental Surge is wayyy underrated.

Uhm… so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?

Why not?? You have no idea how OP those imo are in tf.

I have no idea what logic you use to say the trait is fine to be slotted, by first glance even the most uninitiated MMORPG player will say that that trait is not even GM worthy. Adept Minor at best.

Look, i have yet to touch ele but how is a trait that give you. and i quote “so I have to waste a grand master trait slot to get a burn/immob every few seconds?” not op??? It’s like, us , warrior having a trait that stun folks every few second..

What warrior trait?

i was making an anology, we have no such traits.

Bad analogy though, read the ele GM again.

Maybe you should re-read the bolded statement, i am going off based on what he said.

Sorry, I assumed too much about your Ele knowledge. So let me clarify that for you.

It’s 1 stack of burn, or 1s of immob. The lowest cooldown Arcane skill is 16s. Do you really think you would ever take a grand master trait that gives you a 1s immob every 16s? Not counting that you have to manage your attunement cooldown so you land in Earth every 16s.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Surge

Why would you ever pick a useless grandmaster trait like Elemental Surge? The trait might seem good on its own, but when you compare it to the other 2 grandmaster traits, it is is simply crap. That’s the whole thing with crappy and useless utilities. They might seem good on their own, but when compared to other picks, they are crap.

Exactly, and that’s the whole point of this thread. We need to buff the useless utilities/traits in Ele/Guard build. Ele signet/conjure/Arcane are all bads compared to cantrips or shouts. About 2/3 of the traits are bad too.

2 of the 3 utility slots for Warrior might as well be locked to stances. Your point?

Every class has its share of underused utilities, Guard and Ele aren’t special in that regard.

I’m sorry if I sound harsh but the whole post reads like a complain about Ele and Guard not being as flexible as other classes, when it’s pretty much the complete opposite.

Zeghart.9841:

2 of the 3 utility slots for Warrior might as well be locked to stances. Your point?

Every class has its share of underused utilities, Guard and Ele aren’t special in that regard.

I’m sorry if I sound harsh but the whole post reads like a complain about Ele and Guard not being as flexible as other classes, when it’s pretty much the complete opposite.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Warrior

Stances-Rage-Banners-Shout-single signet-All elites

And ele

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Elementalist

Cantrips-Shout-a single signet and glyph-No tornado

Also it’d be great if people would read my OP ..a little better, I’m talking about unusable utilities which are completely different from “underused utilities”, the first will actually delete one utility slot and will in most case cause death for the user

An ele using a conjure skill is 10 times more likely to get killed than a warrior using a single physical skill am I right?

First please don´t point to meta. This is not about being in meta. It´s about build diversity. Currently “viable” eles run nearly the same.
Eles are propably the class with the most unused utilities. Shure its across every class that traits and utilities lack but here its quite strong.
For arcane going to a 33% CD instead of 20% might be a first and easy step bringing back brilliance and shield on a toolbar. Well even 50sec CD on shield is huge but …
It seems that Anet is just focusing on one or two builds per class for balance and this is alot easier if you leave 2-3 trait lines and 3 of 5 utility sets in garbage state that they never interfere with your balace. This brings easier sPvP balance but destroys diversity. The problem that Anet will face is that focusing on competative PvP (and esports) by scrapping diversity will loose the much larger part of their player base. For the superior number of players diversity where builds beat each other is a mayor part of keeping the game intresting.

The problem with guardians is more then just crappy utility skills

its

1: Multiple weapons have multiple flaws (either are way way too slow in the case of the hammer, often miss or have narrow cones in case of the sword, can be strafed/outrun in case of the scepter or just do their job badly in case of the staff)

2: Symbols as well as many other guardian skills encourage you to stand still to get benefit out of them while the game is pretty much designed around punishing you for standing still.

3: A great deal of the guardians traits are utter crap that nobody in their right mind would use for anything serious.

and a very important one for PvP

4: The only reasonable choice if you intend to survive someone even looking in your general direction is meditations. Shouts could work if you could reliably always have 5 allies standing around you but that just will never happen & the other utility skills have no survival boost trait/effect at all that can be reasonably used.

Wolfric.9380:

First please don´t point to meta. This is not about being in meta. It´s about build diversity. Currently “viable” eles run nearly the same.
Eles are propably the class with the most unused utilities. Shure its across every class that traits and utilities lack but here its quite strong.
For arcane going to a 33% CD instead of 20% might be a first and easy step bringing back brilliance and shield on a toolbar. Well even 50sec CD on shield is huge but …
It seems that Anet is just focusing on one or two builds per class for balance and this is alot easier if you leave 2-3 trait lines and 3 of 5 utility sets in garbage state that they never interfere with your balace. This brings easier sPvP balance but destroys diversity. The problem that Anet will face is that focusing on competative PvP (and esports) by scrapping diversity will loose the much larger part of their player base. For the superior number of players diversity where builds beat each other is a mayor part of keeping the game intresting.

If this is the case they should come out and say so then just delete spirit weapons, signets and consecrations on the guardian as well as around half or more of their traits and a dozen or so weapon skills.
Then do the same process for other classes who have crap skills/traits weapon skills.=

Turrets, Elixirs, and Gadgets. Not sure why this thread needs to focus on just one or two professions. Every profession has this problem, and every profession would like fixes. When you come off selfish like this, of course people give negative feedback.