Guild Wars 2

So. Have discussed this with multiple guildies/streamers. Which class do you think is most op right now?

Mes has several things making it OP, instant stuns, blind on shatter, power block, PU, insane vulnerability stacking(and more effective), new amulets fitting the mesmer more, etc…

When you tone down the burning damage in Ele, it will come to the level of other professions, 6 stacks of burning 1000 damage per tick is crazy.

Mesmers because to play ele and be good at that is very hard, a bad or averege mesmer can kill u a bad or averege ele no.

In terms of skill vs reward – a new mesmer will beat a new ele because the mesmer will easily land the stun and shatters on the ele. At higher levels of play it’s more even – it’s slightly in favour of the mesmer if the mesmer runs inspiration and slightly in favour of the ele if the mesmer runs PU.

posthumecaver.6473:

When you tone down the burning damage in Ele, it will come to the level of other professions, 6 stacks of burning 1000 damage per tick is crazy.

Sounds like your fault for letting the ele get so much burn stacks on you, and then not cleansing them…

Neither.

People are building better and learning to play already. Newbs gonna lose on both ele and mes. Average gonna have their 50/50, and in pro v pro everybody gotta bring their A game or get rekt.

Conquest be about rotations baby.

It’s funny. The OP asks, which the professions is more op. And several replies already discuss 1v1 fights as if that was all that matters… That is not how this works ppl.

You can react to ele stuff, there are decent ways to counter ele and deal with them in team fights, they certanly need bit toning down but not extreme. Mesmer on other hand…. i think there was more than enough said on this forums. While it is somehow possible by absolute perfect gameplay and mistakes from mes side to maybe win 1v1 vs mes, in team pvp it is just unrealistic unless you run exactly same thing.

The only way to reliably counter mesmer in tpvp is to run better mesmer.

We can also say this way, there is no other class in the game other then Mesmer which can instagib another class with 17K HP and medium level of toughness out of stealth.

Until that fixed, I think I will call Mesmer more OP.

posthumecaver.6473:

We can also say this way, there is no other class in the game other then Mesmer which can instagib another class with 17K HP and medium level of toughness out of stealth.

Until that fixed, I think I will call Mesmer more OP.

Thieves and engis theoretically can, but they’d have to go full yolo specs and bust every cd so that they can’t do anything afterwards – a problem that mesmers don’t have.

The mesmer seems to be overpowered, but there is absolutely no way that he can kill a celestial staff elementalist on his own. The elementalist can survive forever and in the end kill the mesmer with burning and all the aoe and might stacking. So, between those two, I would say that the ele is overpowered.

Nassau.6713:

The mesmer seems to be overpowered, but there is absolutely no way that he can kill a celestial staff elementalist on his own. The elementalist can survive forever and in the end kill the mesmer with burning and all the aoe and might stacking. So, between those two, I would say that the ele is overpowered.

Have you ever played a cele staff ele? You’re not going to kill anything 1v1 in under 2 mins (1v1s above this don’t happen in matches)

Good shatter mesmers were wrecking top d/d eles pre-patch, you can guess what they’re able to do now. The only thing ele has right now that could be more of a threat than pre-patch is burning damage and some more sustain due to 3 trait lines and blind on burning, which hurt mesmers but if mesmer plays the kiting game and utilizes defensive utilities to stay kiting after ele teleports then the mesmer should always win. S/f i’m not sure , i don’t think their sustain could outmatch sustain and dmg of mesmer but i’m not sure on that entirely.

If you were to say something like straight up 1on1 Kyra (only godlike shatter mesmer i know in 1on1s) vs Phantaram or Serane – Kyra would win now for sure.

No counter play to ele, mesmer or thief to be honest. Its all sad

Lordrosicky.5813:

No counter play to ele, mesmer or thief to be honest. Its all sad

Yes there is, you counter all of those by being a mesmer.

And only a better Mesmer can counter a mesmer!

almost anything can counter “MESEMER” not just useless melee. one trick pony thieves can counter some builds. The best way to counter “mesemer” as a “mesemer”. is actually with condi build but one also has too much counterplay like diamond skin sigh.

Extreme.8350:

almost anything can counter “MESEMER” not just useless melee. one trick pony thieves can counter some builds. The best way to counter “mesemer” as a “mesemer”. is actually with condi build but one also has too much counterplay like diamond skin sigh.

Power mantra shatter actually does quite well vs condi mesmer because they have enough cleanses to buy enough time to nuke the condi mesmer.

aggelos r.5387:

Mesmers because to play ele and be good at that is very hard, a bad or averege mesmer can kill u a bad or averege ele no.

And no one reacted to this?
I’m not saying Mesmer is ultra hard and all, it’s actually really easy, but, please, give the good rotation to anyone and he’ll do just fine on an ele

Belial.9350:

Extreme.8350:

almost anything can counter “MESEMER” not just useless melee. one trick pony thieves can counter some builds. The best way to counter “mesemer” as a “mesemer”. is actually with condi build but one also has too much counterplay like diamond skin sigh.

Power mantra shatter actually does quite well vs condi mesmer because they have enough cleanses to buy enough time to nuke the condi mesmer.

Because there aren’t any real strong condi mesmer builds anymore since Maim was the main source of damage and got reduced to 1 stack of torment. Conditions still are probably the best counter to most common mesmers since they kind of rely on killing you before the conditions get out of hand. All these pure dps mesmers run either no condition removal or have maybe 1 utility slot for it. Metabattle’s PU mesmer build for SPvP literally has no condition removal other than Sigil of Generosity on sword.

I’m confused, people complaining about d/d cele ele or something else?

d/d cele is good and all but OP? eh? I pvp every day on multiple classes, ranked and unranked. Mid level, not the best nor the worst. Never have I been owned by an ele (beaten sure, but not like “owned”) and never not been able to do anything about it. The super bunkery ones can’t do any damage. The more meta cele build is just decent all around, but still goes down super easy under any kind of spike damage (or just runs away and you cap…not very dangerous usually.)

Mesmer….I’ve had my character stunned and been downed in one go without a thing I can do about it on some classes. While they have better survivability than a thief… I like playing my mesmer but…they need some toning down somewhere.

Mightybird.6034:

Mesmer….I’ve had my character stunned and been downed in one go without a thing I can do about it on some classes. While they have better survivability than a thief… I like playing my mesmer but…they need some toning down somewhere.

Not only do they have better damage and survivability than a thief, their portal on top of this makes the class even more ridiculous.

Belial.9350:

Mightybird.6034:

Mesmer….I’ve had my character stunned and been downed in one go without a thing I can do about it on some classes. While they have better survivability than a thief… I like playing my mesmer but…they need some toning down somewhere.

Not only do they have better damage and survivability than a thief, their portal on top of this makes the class even more ridiculous.

If you are stunned and then downed without a thing you could do then you were either a) in a team fight having used all your utilities previously or b) asleep. Either way it’s nowhere near OP or ridiculous.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Nassau.6713:

The mesmer seems to be overpowered, but there is absolutely no way that he can kill a celestial staff elementalist on his own. The elementalist can survive forever and in the end kill the mesmer with burning and all the aoe and might stacking. So, between those two, I would say that the ele is overpowered.

Have you ever played a cele staff ele? You’re not going to kill anything 1v1 in under 2 mins (1v1s above this don’t happen in matches)

Yes, for the past 500 tpvp matches, thank you. You’d be surprised how much I actually kill 1v1 … and 1v2. Especially mesmers.

Necrotize.2974:

Belial.9350:

Extreme.8350:

almost anything can counter “MESEMER” not just useless melee. one trick pony thieves can counter some builds. The best way to counter “mesemer” as a “mesemer”. is actually with condi build but one also has too much counterplay like diamond skin sigh.

Power mantra shatter actually does quite well vs condi mesmer because they have enough cleanses to buy enough time to nuke the condi mesmer.

Conditions still are probably the best counter to most common mesmers since they kind of rely on killing you before the conditions get out of hand. All these pure dps mesmers run either no condition removal or have maybe 1 utility slot for it.

You’re absolutely wrong. Mantra mesmers, running Harmonious Mantras and Inspiration line, can have up to 10 condi cleanses ideally. 2×3 from mantra heal and 4 from F1-F4.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Neither.

Quoted for truth.

Although in terms of gameplay, i go for Battlemage.

neptunechild.4831:

Necrotize.2974:

Belial.9350:

Extreme.8350:

almost anything can counter “MESEMER” not just useless melee. one trick pony thieves can counter some builds. The best way to counter “mesemer” as a “mesemer”. is actually with condi build but one also has too much counterplay like diamond skin sigh.

Power mantra shatter actually does quite well vs condi mesmer because they have enough cleanses to buy enough time to nuke the condi mesmer.

Conditions still are probably the best counter to most common mesmers since they kind of rely on killing you before the conditions get out of hand. All these pure dps mesmers run either no condition removal or have maybe 1 utility slot for it.

You’re absolutely wrong. Mantra mesmers, running Harmonious Mantras and Inspiration line, can have up to 10 condi cleanses ideally. 2×3 from mantra heal and 4 from F1-F4.

It’s 6 without HM and 8 with HM. The cleanse for mantras is bugged and won’t cleanse on the final charge.

TyPin.9860:

It’s funny. The OP asks, which the professions is more op. And several replies already discuss 1v1 fights as if that was all that matters… That is not how this works ppl.

It’s about all aspects of the class. Their 1v1 abilities, 1v2 abilities point holding and many other aspects. To judge a class, you judge everything about him to conclude their overall performances.

Ele is quite more OP than mesmer, there’s no build to counter this class unless you outnumber, while mesmers always have a drawback or most builds have heavy counters.
The thing is people are used to ele being how it is, but not to what mesmers can do now. This doesn’t mean the mesmer is completely broken, just people don’t know how to manage and meta has not change to adopt and/or manage what mesmers bring to te meta table.

Ele, on the other hand, is the perfect profession. It has everything you could imagine in a single build.
Decent power damage, decent condi damage, might stack, stability stack, offensive boons (fury, reta), defensive boons (rege, protection), condi cleansing, passive healing, active healing though a lot of skills, soft CC (cripple, weakness, vulnerability), hard CC (, chill, stuns, knockdowns, launch), great mobility both in combat and ooc…

Nassau.6713:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Nassau.6713:

The mesmer seems to be overpowered, but there is absolutely no way that he can kill a celestial staff elementalist on his own. The elementalist can survive forever and in the end kill the mesmer with burning and all the aoe and might stacking. So, between those two, I would say that the ele is overpowered.

Have you ever played a cele staff ele? You’re not going to kill anything 1v1 in under 2 mins (1v1s above this don’t happen in matches)

Yes, for the past 500 tpvp matches, thank you. You’d be surprised how much I actually kill 1v1 … and 1v2. Especially mesmers.

Noob bashing doesn’t count. I can beat just about everyone in queue 1v1 with a soldier axe/lb warrior and won several 2v1s but that doesn’t mean I’ll kill any decent player who knows what to dodge.

Both classes have hard counters. Elementalist is fine, but Mesmer’s Confounding Suggestions needs to only stun on interrupt, and its Blinding Dissipation needs to not go through evades (it was also reported that Guardian’s Justice Is Blind does the same thing).

neptunechild.4831:

Necrotize.2974:

Belial.9350:

Extreme.8350:

almost anything can counter “MESEMER” not just useless melee. one trick pony thieves can counter some builds. The best way to counter “mesemer” as a “mesemer”. is actually with condi build but one also has too much counterplay like diamond skin sigh.

Power mantra shatter actually does quite well vs condi mesmer because they have enough cleanses to buy enough time to nuke the condi mesmer.

Conditions still are probably the best counter to most common mesmers since they kind of rely on killing you before the conditions get out of hand. All these pure dps mesmers run either no condition removal or have maybe 1 utility slot for it.

You’re absolutely wrong. Mantra mesmers, running Harmonious Mantras and Inspiration line, can have up to 10 condi cleanses ideally. 2×3 from mantra heal and 4 from F1-F4.

The Mantra mesmer does have more condition removal, but its also a burst build, so condition removal on Shatter will usually be incidental. No one’s gonna waste Distortion to remove a condition unless they’re sure to die without it. Likewise, using Mind Wrack just to remove conditions means you’re wasting a big part of your burst for more sustain. And as Ross said, the Inspiration minor trait is currently bugged with regards to MoR, it never applies to the last charge. So with HM you get 2 cleanses and the 3rd fails, without HM you get 1 cleanse and the 2nd fails. I was mainly referring to the PU Burst mesmers that everyone claims is so unbeatable and god tier because that’s just what I see everyone complaining about the most.

Velimere.7685:

Both classes have hard counters.

…care to list those?

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Nassau.6713:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Nassau.6713:

The mesmer seems to be overpowered, but there is absolutely no way that he can kill a celestial staff elementalist on his own. The elementalist can survive forever and in the end kill the mesmer with burning and all the aoe and might stacking. So, between those two, I would say that the ele is overpowered.

Have you ever played a cele staff ele? You’re not going to kill anything 1v1 in under 2 mins (1v1s above this don’t happen in matches)

Yes, for the past 500 tpvp matches, thank you. You’d be surprised how much I actually kill 1v1 … and 1v2. Especially mesmers.

Noob bashing doesn’t count. I can beat just about everyone in queue 1v1 with a soldier axe/lb warrior and won several 2v1s but that doesn’t mean I’ll kill any decent player who knows what to dodge.

That count because if there are so many noobs on mesmer that just shows
how high the skill cap the class actually have.

If s/f ele vs Mesmer of any kind prepatch of June 23rd, mesmer should win.
D/D cele ele vs mantra mesmer who runs decoy, mantra of distraction, and blink on a point, about 50:50 in a conquest match.
D/D cele ele vs mantra mesmer in an open space such as wvw, mantra mesmer would have advantage.

I’m not even gonna bother calling condi PU mesmer as a build

aggelos r.5387:

Mesmers because to play ele and be good at that is very hard, a bad or averege mesmer can kill u a bad or averege ele no.

Same reason I vote for Mesmer. You can possibly macro the burst rotation and do ok. And there is no class having a stunbreaker ready every 5 secs.

It is so super easy to pull of the burst, and the increase of the Mesmer population in WvW and PvP speaks of it’s own.

Condition Guardian! Just because it doesn’t require skill to play it. Oh wait thats not a choice. What about dagger pistol thief. Welll shoot. Its pretty obvious to me that someone more skilled at mesmer is going to beat someone less skilled at ele and someone more skilled at ele is going to beat someone less skilled at mesmer. However, in the end the looser is just going to go crying in the forums saying it was the classes fault and not man up to their loss. Which one is more OP? It depends on the skill lvl of the players, like are both of them playing in tournaments or are both of them starting players? It also depends on their team composition to a certain extant.

Xstein.2187:

[…]Its pretty obvious to me that someone more skilled at mesmer is going to beat someone less skilled at ele and someone more skilled at ele is going to beat someone less skilled at mesmer.

Currently, and even before patch to be honest, Mesmer will defeat an ele of similar skill level without any problem unless he seriously mess-up. Actually, currently, a relatively new mesmer will even have success vs a veterant ele. It’s just too easy to interrupt, stun and bail or land your burst with the current tool mesmers have.

Ansau.7326:

Ele, on the other hand, is the perfect profession. It has everything you could imagine in a single build.
Decent power damage, decent condi damage, might stack, stability stack, offensive boons (fury, reta), defensive boons (rege, protection), condi cleansing, passive healing, active healing though a lot of skills, soft CC (cripple, weakness, vulnerability), hard CC (, chill, stuns, knockdowns, launch), great mobility both in combat and ooc…

I think people are too caught up with their mesmer qq to remember this about eles. No other class in the game can do what an even decent ele player can do and that’s a fact. Also once you learn rotations ele isn’t the most difficult thing in the world, you just need to know what the other professions can do to you and react accordingly. I’ve seen 2 dd eles 2v4 on a point and do fine for like 2 minutes. A mesmer against good people can probably last a 1v2 for about 20 seconds. People still get confused by clones though since they’re bad I guess.

I’m not saying that Confounding Suggestions is fine as it is, because it’s not. Complaining about Blinding Dissipation though is ridiculous to me. The only argument people can have against it is that it “doesn’t fit” the mesmer. It’s a mechanic that takes timing and experience to even use properly, plus it’s only available through all of the mesmers shatter abilities that are at best up every 10 seconds. If the mesmer is spamming blinds to not get hit they aren’t going to have a blind when you try to land meaningful burst onto them, nor will the be able to land any meaningful burst onto you. I get that if you evade it you shouldn’t be blinded, but every other argument is dumb. Blinks, stealth, and blind make them harder to kill because that’s the point of those skills. They aren’t unbeatable mechanics they’re just defensive skills you have to know are going to be used before you land meaningful burst (most of the time). Which is why condition/hybrid damage does very well against mesmers.

Raunchy.6891:

Ansau.7326:

Ele, on the other hand, is the perfect profession. It has everything you could imagine in a single build.
Decent power damage, decent condi damage, might stack, stability stack, offensive boons (fury, reta), defensive boons (rege, protection), condi cleansing, passive healing, active healing though a lot of skills, soft CC (cripple, weakness, vulnerability), hard CC (, chill, stuns, knockdowns, launch), great mobility both in combat and ooc…

I think people are too caught up with their mesmer qq to remember this about eles. No other class in the game can do what an even decent ele player can do and that’s a fact. Also once you learn rotations ele isn’t the most difficult thing in the world, you just need to know what the other professions can do to you and react accordingly. I’ve seen 2 dd eles 2v4 on a point and do fine for like 2 minutes. A mesmer against good people can probably last a 1v2 for about 20 seconds. People still get confused by clones though since they’re bad I guess.

This. Mesmer got overtuned with the patch, yes. Most other regular toppicks got tuned down. All but one, Ele kept its status quo. In the end Mesmer and Ele are too strong for the current meta.

But don’t worry. Mesmer will be tuned down, like the last time it was a strong choice….