Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I just wanted to say that with the new attribute-point system, it’ll be even harder for low-healthpool classes to run any amu that doesn’t have vita on it, especially on the Ele.

I’m not necessarily saying that you should simply buff the HP-pool, but at least give the Ele some way of getting a bit more HP without using celestial or zerker-amu.

On the Guardian, there is at least a trait that gives additional HP, higher base-armor and very strong vitality-runes and it would help build-diversity a ton if there would be decent options for Ele as well.

And it would be easily doable without affecting the balance of currently strong builds like cele based ones.

For example

1) Add a decent vitality-based rune for Ele’s
2) Add a +Vitality-passive to one of the Water-traits and cut another bonus like;
- on soothing power, cut down the bonus for soothing mist but add 200 vita.
- I can’t see anyone using piercing shards ever, so you could change that up and add a bit of vita.

The patch hasn’t even dropped yet and people are already crying. The whine is real. Ele’s will still run celes and be fine, they’re the class that most certainly doesn’t need a buff.

There’s a new Amulet called Marauder that are like the old Berserker Trinket but gives abit more Vitality.

That would buff the ele, i’m not sure it’s in the balance teams policy. Maybe they could remove the chill and condition damage from the useless rune of the elementalist and put vitality and healing power instead, since we don’t have that many chills anyways.

Something like that maybe?
(1): +25 Power
(2): +35Vitality
(3): +50 Power
(4): +65 Vitality
(5): +100 Power
(6): +20% Burning Duration; +20% healing effectiveness.

Or maybe change that altruistic water minor grandmaster trait…

have you even read my post@laquito?

I’m not whining, since I think ele will have tons of very viable builds, I’m just stating that a pretty easy fix could improve build-diversity, which is good for everyone (Ele’s have more builds to choose from and other classes won’t have to face the same builds over and over again).

It has nothing to do with buffs to existing builds as well, cuz neither a cele-ele nor a zerker-ele (or now marauder) needs more vitality.

@Toxsa: Marauder is pretty much the new Zerker.

MyPuppy.8970:

That would buff the ele, i’m not sure it’s in the balance teams policy. Maybe they could remove the chill and condition damage from the useless rune of the elementalist and put vitality and healing power instead, since we don’t have that many chills anyways.

Something like that maybe?
(1): +25 Power
(2): +35Vitality
(3): +50 Power
(4): +65 Vitality
(5): +100 Power
(6): +20% Burning Duration; +20% healing effectiveness.

Or maybe change that altruistic water minor grandmaster trait…

It’s not a buff to any existing build, since no Zerker (Marauder) nor Cele-based Ele would ever take a vitality-based rune nor skill a trait that gives vitality.

thats the whole point I’m trying to make: They could easily create more build-diversity without affecting any of the existing builds.

berserk ele will run around with 11k hp, this is a bad joke and yet again this forces ele to drop damage and go for the less offensive marauder amulet just because the design fail of the low base hp… ele needs 13k base instead of the old number.

not only is this for berserk but also for cleric ele, how do you intend to survive with 11k hp now that other dps get damage buffs?

I’m actually wishing for something like this. I was looking at my build and my current Cleric Bunker Ele will only have 11k health. This doesn’t seem quite right…

Jekkt.6045:

berserk ele will run around with 11k hp, this is a bad joke and yet again this forces ele to drop damage and go for the less offensive marauder amulet just because the design fail of the low base hp… ele needs 13k base instead of the old number.

not only is this for berserk but also for cleric ele, how do you intend to survive with 11k hp now that other dps get damage buffs?

Old Zerker always has that Vit part, and ppl actually pick Zerker over Assassin because of that. Donnu why the sudden complaint when Marauder is actually the old Zerker, and the new zerker is actually the alternative Assassin.

Jekkt.6045:

berserk ele will run around with 11k hp, this is a bad joke and yet again this forces ele to drop damage and go for the less offensive marauder amulet just because the design fail of the low base hp… ele needs 13k base instead of the old number.

How is this unique to Ele’s? Thief and Guard are in the very same boat. Bezerker gets replaced with Marauder and each of them should be fine. I don’t get the problem here, if you wanna play full glass, you’re full glass now with crit damage sitting at about 240%.

the problem is that classes with a higher hp pool don’t have to care about this, they just go berserker and will deal a substantial higher amount of damage.

they should have just kept marauder as berserker and never put the new berserker in. or add jewels so that we can mix berserker with valkyre.

Jekkt.6045:

the problem is that classes with a higher hp pool don’t have to care about this, they just go berserker and will deal a substantial higher amount of damage.

they should have just kept marauder as berserker and never put the new berserker in. or add jewels so that we can mix berserker with valkyre.

I don’t think the HP-pool will be any problem for the current cele and zerker-based builds. All the current zerker-builds will probably use marauder instead of zerker.

The problem is that in the current meta and after the patch even more, cele will be forced to run either cele or marauder (which is the new zerker).

So I really don’t understand why so many obvious non-ele players that probably haven’t even read my post fully are complaining about my post (“eles whining again….” etc.) since they are probably also the ones that complain about the cele/zerker-meta and about cele-eles.

But cele and zerker are literally the only amus the ele can use competetively, because of the low HP-pool and no good access to vitality other than through runes.

Jekkt.6045:

the problem is that classes with a higher hp pool don’t have to care about this, they just go berserker and will deal a substantial higher amount of damage.

they should have just kept marauder as berserker and never put the new berserker in. or add jewels so that we can mix berserker with valkyre.

This really is a none-issue because very few people chooses Assassin before the patch anyway. It is basically an alternative version of Assassin. Not to mention 4 stat amulet has higher total stats.

Now we’re talking. Whilst I agree that the HP Pool differences are too far apart from each other, I can only see Mesmers really benefitting from the zerker amulet change. They might have the right utilities to survive on full GC paired with their HP Pool, any other class will still stick to Marauders or a more tanky amulet as they’d be rekt within seconds.

TLDR; Mesmers might take Bersi over Marauders, real slight chance that Medi Guard will prefer Bersi over Marauders (due to Mediheals)

PowerBottom.5796:

But cele and zerker are literally the only amus the ele can use competetively, because of the low HP-pool and no good access to vitality other than through runes.

Bersi has been the only ever viable amulet for thieves since release, so that can barely be a valid argument.

Toxsa.2701:

Jekkt.6045:

the problem is that classes with a higher hp pool don’t have to care about this, they just go berserker and will deal a substantial higher amount of damage.

they should have just kept marauder as berserker and never put the new berserker in. or add jewels so that we can mix berserker with valkyre.

This really is a none-issue because very few people chooses Assassin before the patch anyway. It is basically an alternative version of Assassin. Not to mention 4 stat amulet has higher total stats.

the difference between assassin and the current berserker is that assassin is not always more dps, it depends on the class.

with the new berserker amulet it is more dps, always.

mesmer warrior and necro (maybe engi) will be able to take the berserk amulet and they will oneshot children with it.

Jekkt.6045:

Toxsa.2701:

Jekkt.6045:

the problem is that classes with a higher hp pool don’t have to care about this, they just go berserker and will deal a substantial higher amount of damage.

they should have just kept marauder as berserker and never put the new berserker in. or add jewels so that we can mix berserker with valkyre.

This really is a none-issue because very few people chooses Assassin before the patch anyway. It is basically an alternative version of Assassin. Not to mention 4 stat amulet has higher total stats.

the difference between assassin and the current berserker is that assassin is not always more dps, it depends on the class.

with the new berserker amulet it is more dps, always.

mesmer warrior and necro (maybe engi) will be able to take the berserk amulet and they will oneshot children with it.

So your issue is not Ele becomes UP, but instead other classes becoming OP then.
Good to know :P

i would just call it unfair

laquito.5269:

Bersi has been the only ever viable amulet for thieves since release, so that can barely be a valid argument.

flawless logic….

1) Just because another class has no build diversity, doesn’t mean ANet shouldn’t try to create more build diversity, of course for all classes!
2) Ele has one very clear and fairly easily fixable problem that is diminishing the build diversity – it’s not that easy for thieves, because it doesn’t only hinge on one attribute being too low.
3) I’d be absolutely happy to see more build diversity in thieves, although it’s my least played class, I don’t see why ppl would argue against build diversity…. This has absolutely nothing to do with balance. Balance can come into play once those basic and extremely obvious things have been worked out. Or is it hard to understand that an ele with not even 11k HP AND a very low armor-pool won’t be viable with any amulet that doesn’t give vita?

PowerBottom.5796:

laquito.5269:

Bersi has been the only ever viable amulet for thieves since release, so that can barely be a valid argument.

flawless logic….

1) Just because another class has no build diversity, doesn’t mean ANet shouldn’t try to create more build diversity, of course for all classes!
2) Ele has one very clear and fairly easily fixable problem that is diminishing the build diversity – it’s not that easy for thieves, because it doesn’t only hinge on one attribute being too low.
3) I’d be absolutely happy to see more build diversity in thieves, although it’s my least played class, I don’t see why ppl would argue against build diversity…. This has absolutely nothing to do with balance. Balance can come into play once those basic and extremely obvious things have been worked out. Or is it hard to understand that an ele with not even 11k HP AND a very low armor-pool won’t be viable with any amulet that doesn’t give vita?

My point still stands. Neither thief nor Guard bersi builds will become meta as they share the same low HP pool. No offense, but the word meta already implies that certain team compositions or builds will always be (depending on the current meta) more viable than others. This still doesn’t mean that all of the non meta builds are underpowered, they’re just less desireable/optimal

Your reasoning pretty much sounds like you’re kittened that glass ele won’t be viable/meta (for various reasons). But so will guard and thief, so you either just play bersi ele regardless of viability, or you accept the fact and use another amulet. Pretty selfish to demand a buff exclusively to Ele’s so that they can go glass instead of promoting a base health pool change that benefits any of these classes.

Don’t get me wrong, I love playing my S/F fresh air in tpvp and I’ll definitely try it with zerker amulet, which is a substantial buff to the already insane damage, but 2k more HP in top of that? Come on be realistic.

Edit: Ele already have build variety with semi viable to viable builds, most of them just don’t play them because there are (slightly) better choices. Can’t say the same about Thief builds.

All classes should be mid-tier for health, removing the tiers entirely. It’s unfair when you also factor in armour differences. Only ranger and engineer are balanced in this regard: medium armour and middle health tier. If this tier system is to persist, it should be properly balanced. A simple balance proposal might be heavy armour in the low tier, medium armour in the middle tier, and light armour in the high tier. However, even this would be unbalanced because ele is always played in PvP as a high sustain class, and it’s now got a lot more health than warrior and guardian. Therefore, the best balance is to have every class have the same base health.

laquito.5269:

My point still stands. Neither thief nor Guard bersi builds will become meta as they share the same low HP pool. No offense, but the word meta already implies that certain team compositions or builds will always be (depending on the current meta) more viable than others. This still doesn’t mean that all of the non meta builds are underpowered, they’re just less desireable/optimal

Your reasoning pretty much sounds like you’re kittened that glass ele won’t be viable/meta (for various reasons). But so will guard and thief, so you either just play bersi ele regardless of viability, or you accept the fact and use another amulet. Pretty selfish to demand a buff exclusively to Ele’s so that they can go glass instead of promoting a base health pool change that benefits any of these classes.

Don’t get me wrong, I love playing my S/F fresh air in tpvp and I’ll definitely try it with zerker amulet, which is a substantial buff to the already insane damage, but 2k more HP in top of that? Come on be realistic.

Edit: Ele already have build variety with semi viable to viable builds, most of them just don’t play them because there are (slightly) better choices. Can’t say the same about Thief builds.

I actually think glass-ele will be very viable….. Marauder is glassy enough and it gives vita…. no problems here IMHO.

And yes, I doubt any1 will use the new Zerker competetively, absolutely non-dependent on the HP-pool, because you will just fall over in an instant.

I’m more looking towards the old valk (new crusader), clerics and maybe settlers-amu. These are the potential builds probably no1 will ever play simply because of a ridiculously low HP-pool.

Whats anouther 3 or 4k hp gonna matter anyway if you get burned for 4 to 6k? Its yolo time boys

Grimreaper.5370:

Whats anouther 3 or 4k hp gonna matter anyway if you get burned for 4 to 6k? Its yolo time boys

really? No1 ever played ANY full-condi-builds and now because it’s possible (however very unlikely) to stack one condi to high amounts of dps, it’ll suddenly be condi all over the place….

even though:

- Shoutbow will still very likely be extremely strong – tons of condi-removal
- almost every class got their condi-removal buffed and even builds that previously had no, or very little, access to condi-removal, now get tons of it.
- ShoutGuard with tons of AoE-cleanse looks strong, as well as Inspire-Mesmer with AoE-Cleanse, Staff-Ele and Ele in general.

Yes, in 1v1 situations or 2v1 it’ll be better and it’ll even be better than before in teamfights, but it’ll nowhere near be that huge as ppl make it out to be.

Even if it’s gonna be very very strong (which i doubt, I think it’ll be just fine), there are a bazillion counters to condition-builds…..

OP why bother, it has been apparent that Karl or Jon, has no idea what to do with the elementalist. I doubt they bother testing the elementalist when they were implementing these changes. To those guys, the only weapon that exist is d/d and those the balance the elementalist around that weapon set, while ignoring the other weapons.

They say they wanted build diversity, but after when it is all said and done, nothing is changing for the elementalist. Before this new patch, everybody went into water and arcane, after this new patch most people will go into water and arcane.

laquito.5269:

Jekkt.6045:

berserk ele will run around with 11k hp, this is a bad joke and yet again this forces ele to drop damage and go for the less offensive marauder amulet just because the design fail of the low base hp… ele needs 13k base instead of the old number.

How is this unique to Ele’s? Thief and Guard are in the very same boat. Bezerker gets replaced with Marauder and each of them should be fine. I don’t get the problem here, if you wanna play full glass, you’re full glass now with crit damage sitting at about 240%.

The thieve and guardian have a lot of built in defensive abilities that makes their HP a little better than the elementalist. So it is not as bad as it is for the elementalist.

thief has stealth
Guardians have blocks on relatively low CD.
Most of the elementalist defensive abilities are tried to skills with long CD at the very minimum 30+ second.

PlatinumMember.5274:

OP why bother, it has been apparent that Karl or Jon, has no idea what to do with the elementalist. I doubt they bother testing the elementalist when they were implementing these changes. To those guys, the only weapon that exist is d/d and those the balance the elementalist around that weapon set, while ignoring the other weapons.

They say they wanted build diversity, but after when it is all said and done, nothing is changing for the elementalist. Before this new patch, everybody went into water and arcane, after this new patch most people will go into water and arcane.

laquito.5269:

Jekkt.6045:

berserk ele will run around with 11k hp, this is a bad joke and yet again this forces ele to drop damage and go for the less offensive marauder amulet just because the design fail of the low base hp… ele needs 13k base instead of the old number.

How is this unique to Ele’s? Thief and Guard are in the very same boat. Bezerker gets replaced with Marauder and each of them should be fine. I don’t get the problem here, if you wanna play full glass, you’re full glass now with crit damage sitting at about 240%.

The thieve and guardian have a lot of built in defensive abilities that makes their HP a little better than the elementalist. So it is not as bad as it is for the elementalist.

thief has stealth
Guardians have blocks on relatively low CD.
Most of the elementalist defensive abilities are tried to skills with long CD at the very minimum 30+ second.

Guardian block on low cd? best joke I heard today

elementalist have better sustain, 2 regen types, out of combat button….

You think it was possible for warrior to run any amulet that doesnt have vital before the patch?
nop, HP pool doesnt mean anything.

Zerker war had Vit, PTV had Vit, Cele had Vit, all had Vit.

It’s not about the HP pool, it’s about the utilities

Ragnarox.9601:

PlatinumMember.5274:

OP why bother, it has been apparent that Karl or Jon, has no idea what to do with the elementalist. I doubt they bother testing the elementalist when they were implementing these changes. To those guys, the only weapon that exist is d/d and those the balance the elementalist around that weapon set, while ignoring the other weapons.

They say they wanted build diversity, but after when it is all said and done, nothing is changing for the elementalist. Before this new patch, everybody went into water and arcane, after this new patch most people will go into water and arcane.

laquito.5269:

Jekkt.6045:

berserk ele will run around with 11k hp, this is a bad joke and yet again this forces ele to drop damage and go for the less offensive marauder amulet just because the design fail of the low base hp… ele needs 13k base instead of the old number.

How is this unique to Ele’s? Thief and Guard are in the very same boat. Bezerker gets replaced with Marauder and each of them should be fine. I don’t get the problem here, if you wanna play full glass, you’re full glass now with crit damage sitting at about 240%.

The thieve and guardian have a lot of built in defensive abilities that makes their HP a little better than the elementalist. So it is not as bad as it is for the elementalist.

thief has stealth
Guardians have blocks on relatively low CD.
Most of the elementalist defensive abilities are tried to skills with long CD at the very minimum 30+ second.

Guardian block on low cd? best joke I heard today

elementalist have better sustain, 2 regen types, out of combat button….

You are right, I meant to say have a lot of sources for block. My bad.

lighter.2708:

You think it was possible for warrior to run any amulet that doesnt have vital before the patch?
nop, HP pool doesnt mean anything.

Zerker war had Vit, PTV had Vit, Cele had Vit, all had Vit.

It’s not about the HP pool, it’s about the utilities

HP pool does matter when you only have 11k and wear light armor and have very few defensive capabilities and terrible mobility compare to a warrior. With access to some of the best ulitilizes in the game.

I am kind of confused why the changed zerker amy. The only choice is marauder now heh.

wtb jewels back