Guild Wars 2

If you really want to fix the problems with these classes, a good start would be to switch around their health pools. Necros would get the low tier health pool, along with a ton of buffs to active defence and damage, which are both terribly low. Necros actually have decent sustain right now, but, until they have tools to completely prevent damage, necros will continue to be second class citizens. This would also make the class less of a pain to fight against because it would be less of a wall of hp (which is where the misconception of necros being tanky comes from).

Eles would move to middle tier health pool. This would make it less mandatory to take 2 defensive traitlines. It would also allow anet to finally nerf the crazy amount of invulns, stab, and sustain eles have (just a little bit, not into the ground). No class should be able to chain 7 seconds of complete invuln, then 10 stacks of stab, all while having perma protection, and regen. It is just too much.

Mesmers would be high tier health pool. This would help them in the thief matchup and would be a buff to counteract the incoming nerfs to damage and chain cc that mesmers will/should get.

What are your thoughts on this?

Edit: I main necro, the first few posters aren’t seeing the big picture, but only the meta builds they play.

zapv.8051:

Mesmers would be high tier health pool.

I dont see anything wrong with it..nope..not even a bit

LOLLLLLLLL

So basically you mean:

1. kill necro
2. buff Ele from God-mode → Creator mode
3. buff Mesmer from cheese cookie cutter → God Mode

Balance lol…
Also please take a close look of all the passive procs Ele got from those broken traits now, and you’ll see the problem is never health pool.

I main mesmer also!

Great idea!

/s

skowcia.8257:

zapv.8051:

Mesmers would be high tier health pool.

I dont see anything wrong with it..nope..not even a bit

I also think their damage, cc, and probably pu should get nerfed. Just because you can’t see 3 feet in front of the meta doesn’t mean no one else can.

Toxsa.2701:

LOLLLLLLLL

So basically you mean:

1. kill necro
2. buff Ele from God-mode -> Creator mode
3. buff Mesmer from cheese cookie cutter -> God Mode

Balance lol…
Also please take a close look of all the passive procs Ele got from those broken traits now, and you’ll see the problem is never health pool.

1) Yeah, kill them so they can rise from the dead.
2) All gods die eventually
3) Sure.

The fact that I have one shotted fresh air eles on half the classes in this game is the problem. So is the insane amount of sustain they have, but with a medium health pool all of these could be balanced out.

zapv.8051:

The fact that I have one shotted fresh air eles on half the classes in this game is the problem. So is the insane amount of sustain they have, but with a medium health pool all of these could be balanced out.

Please don’t make it sound like fresh air has insane amount of sustain.

The issue is the fact ele has way too high survability when traited but very low base defense. I do think that the differences between hp pools are way too high and should be changed, but I don’t think we’ll ever see this happening.

zapv.8051:

skowcia.8257:

zapv.8051:

Mesmers would be high tier health pool.

I dont see anything wrong with it..nope..not even a bit

I also think their damage, cc, and probably pu should get nerfed. Just because you can’t see 3 feet in front of the meta doesn’t mean no one else can.

When they nerf their natural survivability we can speak about high hp pool. As it stands now mesmer should have lower possible hp. The olny thing i agree is medium for ele.

Toxsa.2701:

LOLLLLLLLL

So basically you mean:

1. kill necro
2. buff Ele from God-mode -> Creator mode
3. buff Mesmer from cheese cookie cutter -> God Mode

haha. Well said.

Laraley.7695:

zapv.8051:

The fact that I have one shotted fresh air eles on half the classes in this game is the problem. So is the insane amount of sustain they have, but with a medium health pool all of these could be balanced out.

Please don’t make it sound like fresh air has insane amount of sustain.

The issue is the fact ele has way too high survability when traited but very low base defense. I do think that the differences between hp pools are way too high and should be changed, but I don’t think we’ll ever see this happening.

Did I make it sound like fresh air had insane amounts of sustain? Guess I did. My point is that the survivability difference between fresh air and cele ele is to big. This is largely because they have bad base stats, but overpowered defensive traits. At this rate zerker ele builds will never be viable because of how strong tank ele builds are.

Toxsa.2701:

LOLLLLLLLL

So basically you mean:

1. kill necro
2. buff Ele from God-mode -> Creator mode
3. buff Mesmer from cheese cookie cutter -> God Mode

lol, except you only read the first sentence -.-

The mes part seems like probable acording to what he put…

This idea is bad because t would remove effectively 18k HP from necromancers and would also make elementalists and mesmers impossible strong. Would require to much re-evaluation to how a class is set to function.

I main ele and I say that this is a bad idea. I won’t even bother to explain why, it should be plain obvious.

Sigmoid.7082:

This idea is bad because t would remove effectively 18k HP from necromancers and would also make elementalists and mesmers impossible strong. Would require to much re-evaluation to how a class is set to function.

Necros already need a ton of work, more than engis before june 23rd. The ele and mesmer changes would be accompanied by nerfs to sustain and/or damage. Did any of you actually read the first post? Do you really think I just want to flat buff to mes and ele and a flat nerf to necro?

The highest HP class is bond to lack active defense while the lowest is bound to a lot of it both sides have unloved drawbacks. Why can’t we all be medium?

Sagat.3285:

Why can’t we all be medium?

I would actually like that.

It was read but it still doesn’t stop the idea from being bad or needing to much re-evaluation of the entire class and the class system. Also your post only reference two specific builds for 2 classes and one specific match up for the other.

I don’t think you are seeing the bigger picture here. It would be better for anet to work with what they have and what they are adding than have to allocate more resources to redesign and change the three classes and potentially more just to balance out the change in HP pool.

zapv.8051:

Sigmoid.7082:

This idea is bad because t would remove effectively 18k HP from necromancers and would also make elementalists and mesmers impossible strong. Would require to much re-evaluation to how a class is set to function.

Necros already need a ton of work, more than engis before june 23rd. The ele and mesmer changes would be accompanied by nerfs to sustain and/or damage. Did any of you actually read the first post? Do you really think I just want to flat buff to mes and ele and a flat nerf to necro?

If you can’t give detailed values as to how each traits should work, then your ideas mean literally nothing. It is way too much rework. You’d have to nerf at least 30 things to make the hp change possible.

So:

1. Switch health pools.
2. Overhaul each class to accommodate health pool switch.

I can’t say that I’m a fan, just because it would take too much work and isn’t a feasible change that would be made at this point.

Sigmoid.7082:

It was read but it still doesn’t stop the idea from being bad or needing to much re-evaluation of the entire class and the class system. Also your post only reference two specific builds for 2 classes and one specific match up for the other.

I don’t think you are seeing the bigger picture here. It would be better for anet to work with what they have and what they are adding than have to allocate more resources to redesign and change the three classes and potentially more just to balance out the change in HP pool.

Necros will never have adequate high tier representation without active defense, similarly they will continue to be the only class that can’t solo Lupi (not pvp related, but pretty sad). Also, if necros do get active defense all the beginner players that already struggle against the 40k health pool of necros will struggle even more. Basically, I can’t envision a scenario where necros have the tools they need to survive teamfights, without being massively overpowered against beginners. Similarly, glass ele builds will always be to easy to burst when they only have 10k base health because that isn’t enough to survive one burst anymore.

I don’t deny that this wouldn’t be easy to do and probably won’t happen. However, you say this is a bad idea without giving any arguments to my validation for this change. That is both rude to me, as well as being short sighted. I don’t mind people disagreeing with me, but when you say, “this is dumb, its obvious why, but I won’t address your points,” you are doing an injustice to yourself not me.

Edit: In an effort to not double post.

I think your all exaggerating how much would have to change for this to happen. Necros would need a ton of work, but that isn’t a change from where they are at now. Mesmers would need some damage and cc shaved which isn’t a change to where they are currently. Eles would need some of their sustain or damage cut, which isn’t different from where they sit currently.

Also, Toxsa I’m sure you as a competent player could pretty quickly in your head think of the changes that would need to happen. I could make a huge list, but I think most of the people on the forum who have actual thoughtful opinions could come up with a list on their own.

Your validation is that it wouldnt take a lot to change and that you would think it would make the classes better. My argument , which i apparently didnt have, is that the idea is short sighted because the opening post references 3 particular scenarios and doesnt factor in how the class as well as the class system would have to change to balance such a simple change as changing hp pool.

Every trait and ability on a class is balanced with the hp pool taken into account. You would have to not only change how some abilities function but also how they interact with other abilities on the class itself but also how it interacts with all the other classes in the game. You would also have to change the values on essentially everything the class does to account for its new survivability. Nerf heals, change cooldowns, remove or add trait interaction etc etc. And again this wouldnt be just on the one class but you would have to look at everything else it may turn out just a combo of a select classes can do everything extremely well when together.

They literally just reworked the traits and still have balancing to do on that, are now expanding the functionality of classes with elite specs ( which would have to be taken back to the drawing board because ), and so much more. Its a small change but it have effect on everything. It would literally be unwise from anets point of view to have to re-balance so much than just shave and sharpen what they are already working with.

Now we can sit here, go over every trait and value in the entire game and come up with ideas but anet would have to allocate resources to changing and redesigning everything, hours of work, hours of testing hours of balancing and redesign. The reason people are replying with a huge slew of changes and just stating the idea is bad is because they can see the stupidly large amount of work it would be. It is literally something unfeasible and unwise to do from a player and anet point of view. Also it would mean instead of shaving stuff everything going back to the drawing board and a delay to the expansion and all that is planned.

tl;dr
The idea isnt bad per se , its just unrealistic or unfeasible to implement.

Sigmoid.7082:

Your validation is that it wouldnt take a lot to change and that you would think it would make the classes better. My argument , which i apparently didnt have, is that the idea is short sighted because the opening post references 3 particular scenarios and doesnt factor in how the class as well as the class system would have to change to balance such a simple change as changing hp pool.

Every trait and ability on a class is balanced with the hp pool taken into account. You would have to not only change how some abilities function but also how they interact with other abilities on the class itself but also how it interacts with all the other classes in the game. You would also have to change the values on essentially everything the class does to account for its new survivability. Nerf heals, change cooldowns, remove or add trait interaction etc etc. And again this wouldnt be just on the one class but you would have to look at everything else it may turn out just a combo of a select classes can do everything extremely well when together.

They literally just reworked the traits and still have balancing to do on that, are now expanding the functionality of classes with elite specs ( which would have to be taken back to the drawing board because ), and so much more. Its a small change but it have effect on everything. It would literally be unwise from anets point of view to have to re-balance so much than just shave and sharpen what they are already working with.

Now we can sit here, go over every trait and value in the entire game and come up with ideas but anet would have to allocate resources to changing and redesigning everything, hours of work, hours of testing hours of balancing and redesign. The reason people are replying with a huge slew of changes and just stating the idea is bad is because they can see the stupidly large amount of work it would be. It is literally something unfeasible and unwise to do from a player and anet point of view. Also it would mean instead of shaving stuff everything going back to the drawing board and a delay to the expansion and all that is planned.

tl;dr
The idea isnt bad per se , its just unrealistic or unfeasible to implement.

I don’t think it would take as much work as your implying. For instance, heals wouldn’t have to change much if at all in my opinion. Having said that, I understand your point and realize Anet would probably never do this. Thank you for responding without being a kitten.