Guild Wars 2

Following the 5/4 ele team winning last esl we have the following go4gw2 rules update:

“3.11. League Specific Rules
- Each team needs to consist of at least 3 different professions.”

So stacking prof is seen as an exploit ? Sounds strange to me.
Maybe it is a desesperate move to hide what balance team is failing at: make professions complementary and avoid god mode one mastering 90% of what matters in spvp:
- 1v1 beast : checked
- godly sustainability : checked
- awesome group support : checked
- top team fighting ability : checked
- mobility : outch .. only second here (still improvement possible lol)

I feel sad that we cannot stack professions in competition as any restriction (out of exploits that must be fixed soon) just hides the problem.

Meanwhile Anet ignores issue for months~

Stupid rule.

/15chars

Sadly people will also ID an exploit and then not report it because they see it as “not their fault” that there is a bug and then justify it in the their mind that its ok to use.

Soooo now the problem is being sidestepped, well done ANET>

I love how all those silly people were all “Eles are fine, it’s just a l2p issue” and as a result of not tuning them down, 4 and 5 ele teams have won tournaments, had rules shaped around them, some of the biggest lash backs that I’ve seen in a long time, and unlike Turrets, they plague the late game and have perfectly acceptable mobility.

Blows my mind people can be so selfish. And shame on ANet with this one. Dhuumfire was nerfed in like two days and wasn’t half the balance problem Elementalists are causing.

3 eles, 1 mesmer and 1 thief. :>

Taku.6352:

3 eles, 1 mesmer and 1 thief. :>

Next rules: at least 4 professions ? ;-)

Ele’s aren’t fine but it’s not a l2p issue. Don’t blame the class when an amulet gives 700/920 more stats than other amulets. That and might stacking. To this day, I don’t understand why each amulet doesn’t have the total amount of stats. Seems like a clear balancing choice to me.

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

I love how all those silly people were all “Eles are fine, it’s just a l2p issue” and as a result of not tuning them down, 4 and 5 ele teams have won tournaments, had rules shaped around them, some of the biggest lash backs that I’ve seen in a long time, and unlike Turrets, they plague the late game and have perfectly acceptable mobility.

Blows my mind people can be so selfish. And shame on ANet with this one. Dhuumfire was nerfed in like two days and wasn’t half the balance problem Elementalists are causing.

Ele’s are fine but it’s not a l2p issue. Don’t blame the class when an amulet gives 700/920 more stats than other amulets. To this day, I don’t understand why each amulet doesn’t have the total amount of stats. Seems like a clear balancing choice to me.

Again with the silly amulet argument. You’re wrong. Go play Celestial on a thief or whatever if you think it’s the amulet. It’s class mechanics that makes ele so powerful, not the amulet. It has bonus stats because you have to when you stretch stats so thin. Little do people realize before the class power creep, Celestial was never used and had to get buffed 10%, and still wasn’t used frequently until Ele and Warrior was buffed to be able to take advantage of the mix of stats, but it still had to do with the class. Notice how Shoutbow isn’t a thing anymore after nerfing the base heal?

It’s not an amulet problem or everyone would use it. It’s the class.

ronpierce.2760:

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

I love how all those silly people were all “Eles are fine, it’s just a l2p issue” and as a result of not tuning them down, 4 and 5 ele teams have won tournaments, had rules shaped around them, some of the biggest lash backs that I’ve seen in a long time, and unlike Turrets, they plague the late game and have perfectly acceptable mobility.

Blows my mind people can be so selfish. And shame on ANet with this one. Dhuumfire was nerfed in like two days and wasn’t half the balance problem Elementalists are causing.

Ele’s are fine but it’s not a l2p issue. Don’t blame the class when an amulet gives 700/920 more stats than other amulets. To this day, I don’t understand why each amulet doesn’t have the total amount of stats. Seems like a clear balancing choice to me.

Again with the silly amulet argument. You’re wrong. Go play Celestial on a thief or whatever if you think it’s the amulet. It’s class mechanics that makes ele so powerful, not the amulet. It has bonus stats because you have to when you stretch stats so thin. Little do people realize before the class power creep, Celestial was never used and had to get buffed 10%, and still wasn’t used frequently until Ele and Warrior was buffed to be able to take advantage of the mix of stats, but it still had to do with the class. Notice how Shoutbow isn’t a thing anymore after nerfing the base heal?

It’s not an amulet problem or everyone would use it. It’s the class.

I change my post a bit. Its the amulet plus might stacking. If you took away might stacking, cele ele will hit like wet noodles. Celestrial thief does work but not in capture mode…

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

I love how all those silly people were all “Eles are fine, it’s just a l2p issue” and as a result of not tuning them down, 4 and 5 ele teams have won tournaments, had rules shaped around them, some of the biggest lash backs that I’ve seen in a long time, and unlike Turrets, they plague the late game and have perfectly acceptable mobility.

Blows my mind people can be so selfish. And shame on ANet with this one. Dhuumfire was nerfed in like two days and wasn’t half the balance problem Elementalists are causing.

Ele’s are fine but it’s not a l2p issue. Don’t blame the class when an amulet gives 700/920 more stats than other amulets. To this day, I don’t understand why each amulet doesn’t have the total amount of stats. Seems like a clear balancing choice to me.

Again with the silly amulet argument. You’re wrong. Go play Celestial on a thief or whatever if you think it’s the amulet. It’s class mechanics that makes ele so powerful, not the amulet. It has bonus stats because you have to when you stretch stats so thin. Little do people realize before the class power creep, Celestial was never used and had to get buffed 10%, and still wasn’t used frequently until Ele and Warrior was buffed to be able to take advantage of the mix of stats, but it still had to do with the class. Notice how Shoutbow isn’t a thing anymore after nerfing the base heal?

It’s not an amulet problem or everyone would use it. It’s the class.

I change my post a bit. Its the amulet plus might stacking. If you took away might stacking, cele ele will hit like wet noodles. Celestrial thief does work but not in capture mode…

It works, but it’s not a “problem”. That’s pretty much how a lot of options should be. A good majority of the time, Celestial is used because we have such poor control over our stats. Killing Celestial would screw over a lot more than fix a secluded issue.

Ele have very notable balance issues, no need to mess up other things to fix the single outlier.

ronpierce.2760:

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

I love how all those silly people were all “Eles are fine, it’s just a l2p issue” and as a result of not tuning them down, 4 and 5 ele teams have won tournaments, had rules shaped around them, some of the biggest lash backs that I’ve seen in a long time, and unlike Turrets, they plague the late game and have perfectly acceptable mobility.

Blows my mind people can be so selfish. And shame on ANet with this one. Dhuumfire was nerfed in like two days and wasn’t half the balance problem Elementalists are causing.

Ele’s are fine but it’s not a l2p issue. Don’t blame the class when an amulet gives 700/920 more stats than other amulets. To this day, I don’t understand why each amulet doesn’t have the total amount of stats. Seems like a clear balancing choice to me.

Again with the silly amulet argument. You’re wrong. Go play Celestial on a thief or whatever if you think it’s the amulet. It’s class mechanics that makes ele so powerful, not the amulet. It has bonus stats because you have to when you stretch stats so thin. Little do people realize before the class power creep, Celestial was never used and had to get buffed 10%, and still wasn’t used frequently until Ele and Warrior was buffed to be able to take advantage of the mix of stats, but it still had to do with the class. Notice how Shoutbow isn’t a thing anymore after nerfing the base heal?

It’s not an amulet problem or everyone would use it. It’s the class.

I change my post a bit. Its the amulet plus might stacking. If you took away might stacking, cele ele will hit like wet noodles. Celestrial thief does work but not in capture mode…

It works, but it’s not a “problem”. That’s pretty much how a lot of options should be. A good majority of the time, Celestial is used because we have such poor control over our stats. Killing Celestial would screw over a lot more than fix a secluded issue.

Ele have very notable balance issues, no need to mess up other things to fix the single outlier.

It’s just my opinion but I rather have them remove cele amulet. I don’t think any class should be able to do damage/tank/condi/control in the same build and cele enables it in some builds. This goes for cele necro and the old cele engi, too. Damage/condi/control/support pick one or two but you can’t have it all.

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

I love how all those silly people were all “Eles are fine, it’s just a l2p issue” and as a result of not tuning them down, 4 and 5 ele teams have won tournaments, had rules shaped around them, some of the biggest lash backs that I’ve seen in a long time, and unlike Turrets, they plague the late game and have perfectly acceptable mobility.

Blows my mind people can be so selfish. And shame on ANet with this one. Dhuumfire was nerfed in like two days and wasn’t half the balance problem Elementalists are causing.

Ele’s are fine but it’s not a l2p issue. Don’t blame the class when an amulet gives 700/920 more stats than other amulets. To this day, I don’t understand why each amulet doesn’t have the total amount of stats. Seems like a clear balancing choice to me.

Again with the silly amulet argument. You’re wrong. Go play Celestial on a thief or whatever if you think it’s the amulet. It’s class mechanics that makes ele so powerful, not the amulet. It has bonus stats because you have to when you stretch stats so thin. Little do people realize before the class power creep, Celestial was never used and had to get buffed 10%, and still wasn’t used frequently until Ele and Warrior was buffed to be able to take advantage of the mix of stats, but it still had to do with the class. Notice how Shoutbow isn’t a thing anymore after nerfing the base heal?

It’s not an amulet problem or everyone would use it. It’s the class.

I change my post a bit. Its the amulet plus might stacking. If you took away might stacking, cele ele will hit like wet noodles. Celestrial thief does work but not in capture mode…

It works, but it’s not a “problem”. That’s pretty much how a lot of options should be. A good majority of the time, Celestial is used because we have such poor control over our stats. Killing Celestial would screw over a lot more than fix a secluded issue.

Ele have very notable balance issues, no need to mess up other things to fix the single outlier.

It’s just my opinion but I rather have them remove cele amulet. I don’t think any class should be able to do damage/tank/condi/control in the same build and cele enables it in some builds. This goes for cele necro and the old cele engi, too. Damage/condi/control/support pick one or two but you can’t have it all.

560 stats won’t do that. Especially how stats are compounded. It’s a jack of all trades. Any time where they become too powerful with celestial, it has always come from a base class issue, just like with any other amulet OP build. There’s nothing wrong with a balanced build that uses their traits to offset some of their weaknesses. If you look at the base set of stats for Celestial, it’s fairly pitiful, so people still specialize via traits. I prefer celestial builds that take a direction than everything being Full Bunk versus sheer glass cannon. I can’t stand when people push 1-2 second fights and unkillable bunks. That’s far more boring. Ele has a few issues, let them fix it. No need to start a chain effect of issues over a SINGLE grossly outperforming class.

If it was the amulet…go4gw2 admins would certainly have prohibited the amulet rather than the class stacking.
So please stop with the amulet argument. It is just diversion.

ronpierce.2760:

It’s not an amulet problem or everyone would use it. It’s the class.

It is an amulet problem.

It gives so much more in stats, now this is offset by the theory that no one benefits fully from all these spread around stats.
But then comes along a profession build that does benefit from all the stats, and as a result gets 966 extra stats that it can use perfectly fine. Thats almost 60% more stats.

And if what you say is true and only ele’s use this amulet, than nerfing the amulet will nerf ele’s by almost 1000stat points. Without nerfing Ele builds that are not build around using Celestial.
Nerfing Ele across the board to be balanced with +1k stats will just force every ele to be builds for Celestial.

Terrahero.9358:

ronpierce.2760:

It’s not an amulet problem or everyone would use it. It’s the class.

It is an amulet problem.

It gives so much more in stats, now this is offset by the theory that no one benefits fully from all these spread around stats.
But then comes along a profession build that does benefit from all the stats, and as a result gets 966 extra stats that it can use perfectly fine. Thats almost 60% more stats.

And if what you say is true and only ele’s use this amulet, than nerfing the amulet will nerf ele’s by almost 1000stat points. Without nerfing Ele builds that are not build around using Celestial.
Nerfing Ele across the board to be balanced with +1k stats will just force every ele to be builds for Celestial.

The theory isn’t “people won’t benefit from all stats”, the “theory” is they’d be jack of all trades. And they are. Anyone who uses celestial are a bit tankier than glass, but not as tanky as a full-bunk. Deal more damage than bunkers but not as much as a glass. That’s ALWAYS true, Celestial Elementalist are just too strong at a base level, which makes this “jack of all trades” a very safe and powerful option.

Part of this is due to how strong scaling is on burning and their application, some of it is due to their amazing boon power, etc. But at a very basic level, no other class defies exactly what I said. They’re a balanced jack of all trades fighter. Elementalist are simply outliers due to a mix of personal mechanics.

Unfortunately for Ele, they’re a light armored class and are required to have at least a little vitality or toughness to not be one-shot, but beyond the super-squishies, you see similar things done with Crusader builds, which are another example of a some-what jack of all trades (except conditions), that use builds to fill in their weak-spots. It’s never an issue, except in the case of Cele Ele.

If attracts more players, it is working as intended.

There is no point balancing the game before an expansion, so they might play with this far longer time.

Same discussion all the time…one side ask for harsh nerfs and the other side stand against the idea; the discussion starts because the side asking for nerfs always invoke the word balance when in truth all they want is to see removed the source of their anguish and that means a ground zero nerfing of whatever they lose to.

Why can I safely say this?

Because those asking for nerfs normally never propose what should be changed, they simply want the problem entirely removed from existence, where balance means addressing specific issues.

And if somebody propose a solution on how to address specific problems…well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxwVcGXhi0o

is this a joke?

Im honestly not sure. why dont we limit might stacks to 12, anyone caught stacking more might is disqualified.

just replace ring of fire with another skill. it will gut d/d’s damage while leaving the sustain.

choovanski.5462:

just replace ring of fire with another skill. it will gut d/d’s damage while leaving the sustain.

This is what I call “removal of the problem out of existence” , your suggestion got nothing to do with balance, it’s just a selfish request that no sane dev would ever take in consideration.

The d/d set is a mele set and by general game design, the mele sets do the most damage, you as opponent must still learn how to bloody dodge and counter, what must be done is to make the damage more easy to counter, not remove it!

A competitive gaming environment is where you as player start thinking about your next tactic whenever the enemy is approaching on whichever class, so we don’t remove damage from ele so that you start laughing whenever an ele try to engage you!

Ring of Fire has a direct damage and condi component, you want to make the condi component more easy to avoid/negate; you can increase CD of ring of fire, you can reduce the number of burn stacks or change them to burning pulse; or whatever sensible suggestion come to your mind.

Behind every profession, there is a person and that person spent as much time as you in game on average, everyone should have an equal shot at victory regardless of what they play

Balance = equal playing ground it’s not a matter of opinion whether you like it or not! It should not be that profession A beats always profession B, because there is just this much you can do on profession B thx to nerfs.

If you want this kind of game, do not play a MMO, go play a RPG where you can use -Godmode-

The ele must be balanced yes..but not for your sake but rather for the sake of those players using the class

Great, so much for my 4 ranger team.

Supreme.3164:

choovanski.5462:

just replace ring of fire with another skill. it will gut d/d’s damage while leaving the sustain.

This is what I call “removal of the problem out of existence” , your suggestion got nothing to do with balance, it’s just a selfish request that no sane dev would ever take in consideration.

The d/d set is a mele set and by general game design, the mele sets do the most damage, you as opponent must still learn how to bloody dodge and counter, what must be done is to make the damage more easy to counter, not remove it!

A competitive gaming environment is where you as player start thinking about your next tactic whenever the enemy is approaching on whichever class, so we don’t remove damage from ele so that you start laughing whenever an ele try to engage you!

Ring of Fire has a direct damage and condi component, you want to make the condi component more easy to avoid/negate; you can increase CD of ring of fire, you can reduce the number of burn stacks or change them to burning pulse; or whatever sensible suggestion come to your mind.

Behind every profession, there is a person and that person spent as much time as you in game on average, everyone should have an equal shot at victory regardless of what they play

Balance = equal playing ground it’s not a matter of opinion whether you like it or not! It should not be that profession A beats always profession B, because there is just this much you can do on profession B thx to nerfs.

If you want this kind of game, do not play a MMO, go play a RPG where you can use -Godmode-

The ele must be balanced yes..but not for your sake but rather for the sake of those players using the class

ITT; Godmode ele displays dangerous levels of cognitive dissonance.

I got it!

Nerf Ring of Fire.

Bring back Fresh Air!

I did it guys!

Anet will get bored of eles by playing with them all the times, and then will nerf it. Just wait, soonTM

Supreme the reason most people don’t suggest a balance idea is rather simple. by the time arena net add’s it to the dev client, tests and reiterates, the proposed change is already obsolete.

I don’t think it takes a full project lifecycle to change the number of fire stacks from 3 to 2 or 1. It is should be more than feasible to do balance changes before they become obsolete (Esp. because the meta is going to get stale anyway without balance changes).

I don’t like this change. Lowers the number of available comps and really does nothing but hide class balancing issues. If 4/5 eles are the best comp at the moment then limiting the number of possible ele’s to 3 isn’t going to fix the fact that ele’s are broken. It’s just going to encourage teams that ran 4 ele comps to now run 3 ele comps.

ele is a minor problem, but class stacking is major

I do not agree with the class stacking rule. There shouldn’t be a rule in place to solve a simple problem…. the ANET balance team needs to start doing their job. Class stacking is a good thing since it highlights problems within the game.

ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.

removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.

choovanski.5462:

ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.

removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.

The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.

Necrotize.2974:

choovanski.5462:

ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.

removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.

The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.

devs always choose to gut engineer, can’t see why ele should receive special treatment.

the condis from RoF have never bothered me, but they seem to kill a lot of people on the forum, which was my experience with turret engineers. my issue is that ele can maintain 20+ might. d/d becomes finisher heavy so it’s good at blasting in coordinated teamfights. peopen have to use d/f if they want blasts are the fire field.

choovanski.5462:

Necrotize.2974:

choovanski.5462:

ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.

removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.

The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.

devs always choose to gut engineer, can’t see why ele should receive special treatment.

the condis from RoF have never bothered me, but they seem to kill a lot of people on the forum, which was my experience with turret engineers. my issue is that ele can maintain 20+ might. d/d becomes finisher heavy so it’s good at blasting in coordinated teamfights. peopen have to use d/f if they want blasts are the fire field.

As someone who plays both ele and engi(engi more than ele of late) I really would rather classes not be needlessly gutted just to provide a band-aid fix to make whiners happy. Ring of Fire literally will do no damage to someone who knows how to move in and out of it, or even just someone who knows to dodge out of it. Taking it away would make D/D the only ele weaponset without access to any sort of combo field. If that’s fine, why not remove Napalm from Flamethrower Kit because Flame Blast is already a short cd blast finisher(just to be clear, I do not in any way want this, just to make a point).

Fixing a very strong spec is fine. Attempting to gut it into uselessness is not.

I would even settle for ring of fire not applying burns when you’re not actually standing on it. The other day, I swear I was outside it – on the edge but not touching – and I kept getting burn stacks on me.

It should apply only when there is actual overlap between the ring and my toon’s feet visually.

Wow.. typical band-aid fix, pathetic.

choovanski.5462:

Necrotize.2974:

choovanski.5462:

ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.

removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.

The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.

devs always choose to gut engineer, can’t see why ele should receive special treatment.

the condis from RoF have never bothered me, but they seem to kill a lot of people on the forum, which was my experience with turret engineers. my issue is that ele can maintain 20+ might. d/d becomes finisher heavy so it’s good at blasting in coordinated teamfights. peopen have to use d/f if they want blasts are the fire field.

I thought the brutal, merciless nerf to turrets was the final nerf engies would get. Nerf is an understatement, they pretty much killed the turret build. So many people complained about it without fully understanding its weaknesses – poor mobility, no defense outside turrets, poor condition cleansing… They were far easier to kill than the current d/d ele.

The turret nerf was then followed by the bigger – overall trait, condition scaling nerf last June.

I very much dislike d/d eles but even they don’t deserve the needless gutting engineers suffered and endured this year.

Devs should do the right thing and buff engies.

Vapour.7348:

Devs should do the right thing and buff engies.

So you want a second godly prof.
This sounds a bit like a selfish and partial position which does not help.
Devs/designer job is to define a role for each profession. A role that is important (not mandatory) for competition. Once it is defined they have to tune stenghts and weaknesses in a regular basis to adjust the balance but always making sure each profession excels at their main role.

Vapour.7348:

choovanski.5462:

Necrotize.2974:

choovanski.5462:

ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.

removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.

The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.

devs always choose to gut engineer, can’t see why ele should receive special treatment.

the condis from RoF have never bothered me, but they seem to kill a lot of people on the forum, which was my experience with turret engineers. my issue is that ele can maintain 20+ might. d/d becomes finisher heavy so it’s good at blasting in coordinated teamfights. peopen have to use d/f if they want blasts are the fire field.

I thought the brutal, merciless nerf to turrets was the final nerf engies would get. Nerf is an understatement, they pretty much killed the turret build. So many people complained about it without fully understanding its weaknesses – poor mobility, no defense outside turrets, poor condition cleansing… They were far easier to kill than the current d/d ele.

The turret nerf was then followed by the bigger – overall trait, condition scaling nerf last June.

I very much dislike d/d eles but even they don’t deserve the needless gutting engineers suffered and endured this year.

Devs should do the right thing and buff engies.

The Turret Engie was an abomination in the fact that you could have 2 players with almost no experience, one with a Turret build and one with a number of other builds, and the Turret Engie could AFK kill the other. Sure at the top tier it didn’t matter as much, but at lower tiers it was unkillable. Scrubs matter, too.

Everyone who had experience knew Turret Engie’s weaknesses. The weaknesses were far less important than you give them credit for, mobility was particularly a poor argument. I remember the “just out rotate them” arguments that instsntly failed as soon as you had two Turret Engies on the same team. Poor defense may be so, but you could take the tankiest amulet and runes and your turrets would do the same damage as a glass cannon Turret build. Conditions worked, but pre-patch conditions weren’t nearly as lethal as they are now and kills took a long time considering how much damage they could output.

meow one twenty.4376:

Vapour.7348:

choovanski.5462:

Necrotize.2974:

choovanski.5462:

ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.

removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.

The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.

devs always choose to gut engineer, can’t see why ele should receive special treatment.

the condis from RoF have never bothered me, but they seem to kill a lot of people on the forum, which was my experience with turret engineers. my issue is that ele can maintain 20+ might. d/d becomes finisher heavy so it’s good at blasting in coordinated teamfights. peopen have to use d/f if they want blasts are the fire field.

I thought the brutal, merciless nerf to turrets was the final nerf engies would get. Nerf is an understatement, they pretty much killed the turret build. So many people complained about it without fully understanding its weaknesses – poor mobility, no defense outside turrets, poor condition cleansing… They were far easier to kill than the current d/d ele.

The turret nerf was then followed by the bigger – overall trait, condition scaling nerf last June.

I very much dislike d/d eles but even they don’t deserve the needless gutting engineers suffered and endured this year.

Devs should do the right thing and buff engies.

The Turret Engie was an abomination in the fact that you could have 2 players with almost no experience, one with a Turret build and one with a number of other builds, and the Turret Engie could AFK kill the other. Sure at the top tier it didn’t matter as much, but at lower tiers it was unkillable. Scrubs matter, too.

Everyone who had experience knew Turret Engie’s weaknesses. The weaknesses were far less important than you give them credit for, mobility was particularly a poor argument. I remember the “just out rotate them” arguments that instsntly failed as soon as you had two Turret Engies on the same team. Poor defense may be so, but you could take the tankiest amulet and runes and your turrets would do the same damage as a glass cannon Turret build. Conditions worked, but pre-patch conditions weren’t nearly as lethal as they are now and kills took a long time considering how much damage they could output.

The tankiest amulet couldn’t protect them from conditions. I’ve countered tureteers with the rabid p/p and cele rifle engies, shatter Mesmer, condi trap ranger, staff ele….
It was also a known fact that turreteers owned d/d eles. I think most of the complaints were made by them. Makes me dislike d/d eles even more….

Hello Anet, Welcome to 2 years ago. Would you like a free time machine ticket to the future?

More on the point, any class stacking is likely to cause massive advantage actually. Don’t know why it’s like that in this game but that’s the way it is. I’ve seen 5 wars, 5 gds, 5 engis, 5 eles, 5 necros, 5 meses winning with half-kitten effort. Not so much on thieves and rangers.

This game has a weird exponential increase in team capability when it comes to class stacking.

It’s sad that ele stacking is considered an exploit because that just blatantly confirms that the devs have created an imbalanced competitive game, favoring a few classes.

Supreme.3164:

choovanski.5462:

just replace ring of fire with another skill. it will gut d/d’s damage while leaving the sustain.

This is what I call “removal of the problem out of existence” , your suggestion got nothing to do with balance, it’s just a selfish request that no sane dev would ever take in consideration.

The d/d set is a mele set and by general game design, the mele sets do the most damage, you as opponent must still learn how to bloody dodge and counter, what must be done is to make the damage more easy to counter, not remove it!

A competitive gaming environment is where you as player start thinking about your next tactic whenever the enemy is approaching on whichever class, so we don’t remove damage from ele so that you start laughing whenever an ele try to engage you!

Ring of Fire has a direct damage and condi component, you want to make the condi component more easy to avoid/negate; you can increase CD of ring of fire, you can reduce the number of burn stacks or change them to burning pulse; or whatever sensible suggestion come to your mind.

Behind every profession, there is a person and that person spent as much time as you in game on average, everyone should have an equal shot at victory regardless of what they play

Balance = equal playing ground it’s not a matter of opinion whether you like it or not! It should not be that profession A beats always profession B, because there is just this much you can do on profession B thx to nerfs.

If you want this kind of game, do not play a MMO, go play a RPG where you can use -Godmode-

The ele must be balanced yes..but not for your sake but rather for the sake of those players using the class

Except guess what? Warrior melee is WAY better in design just because it has clear counterplay and it has real casting times. Hell even Thief melee is better designed too because they can get bursted just as hard. Ele melee takes no skill because tankiness escapes and blind spam, therefore it is unhealthy for the game at it’s current state. If Ele didn’t do 6k firegrabs on d/d cele, then EVERYTHING would be fine.

You put ring of fire and they stand in the circle? If they don’t dodge then they take a drake’s breath. They dodge drake’s breath? They eat burning speed. Those skills are WAY TOO EASY to land for the amount of base damage and burning that they do. Oh and while this is happening? I’m tanking two people while I do so because blinding ashes and evade on burning speed.

Now name me a “melee bruiser” that can do the same amount of damage while being able to deal with a 1v2 with ease.

Vapour.7348:

meow one twenty.4376:

Vapour.7348:

choovanski.5462:

Necrotize.2974:

choovanski.5462:

ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.

removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.

The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.

devs always choose to gut engineer, can’t see why ele should receive special treatment.

the condis from RoF have never bothered me, but they seem to kill a lot of people on the forum, which was my experience with turret engineers. my issue is that ele can maintain 20+ might. d/d becomes finisher heavy so it’s good at blasting in coordinated teamfights. peopen have to use d/f if they want blasts are the fire field.

I thought the brutal, merciless nerf to turrets was the final nerf engies would get. Nerf is an understatement, they pretty much killed the turret build. So many people complained about it without fully understanding its weaknesses – poor mobility, no defense outside turrets, poor condition cleansing… They were far easier to kill than the current d/d ele.

The turret nerf was then followed by the bigger – overall trait, condition scaling nerf last June.

I very much dislike d/d eles but even they don’t deserve the needless gutting engineers suffered and endured this year.

Devs should do the right thing and buff engies.

The Turret Engie was an abomination in the fact that you could have 2 players with almost no experience, one with a Turret build and one with a number of other builds, and the Turret Engie could AFK kill the other. Sure at the top tier it didn’t matter as much, but at lower tiers it was unkillable. Scrubs matter, too.

Everyone who had experience knew Turret Engie’s weaknesses. The weaknesses were far less important than you give them credit for, mobility was particularly a poor argument. I remember the “just out rotate them” arguments that instsntly failed as soon as you had two Turret Engies on the same team. Poor defense may be so, but you could take the tankiest amulet and runes and your turrets would do the same damage as a glass cannon Turret build. Conditions worked, but pre-patch conditions weren’t nearly as lethal as they are now and kills took a long time considering how much damage they could output.

The tankiest amulet couldn’t protect them from conditions. I’ve countered tureteers with the rabid p/p and cele rifle engies, shatter Mesmer, condi trap ranger, staff ele….
It was also a known fact that turreteers owned d/d eles. I think most of the complaints were made by them. Makes me dislike d/d eles even more….

You didn’t contradict anything I said, so I guess what I said still stands.

haha A-net has basically admitted they don’t know what they are doing balance wise. Ele should have been hammered long ago and then you bring them up slowly but fairly quickly. Thats how you get fotm people off an op class. Shaving has never and will never work. They need to do balancing much more often. This tinkering with classes moderately a few times a year is bs.

Taku.6352:

3 eles, 1 mesmer and 1 thief. :>

LOL yup….

Also can they put that in rule in the game also pls so when i q up i dont come across 4 ele teams.

brannigan.9831:

haha A-net has basically admitted they don’t know what they are doing balance wise. Ele should have been hammered long ago and then you bring them up slowly but fairly quickly. Thats how you get fotm people off an op class. Shaving has never and will never work. They need to do balancing much more often. This tinkering with classes moderately a few times a year is bs.

Also why this game will never become a true eSport. The balance team really needs to get to work and fix clearly broken items.

meow one twenty.4376:

Vapour.7348:

meow one twenty.4376:

Vapour.7348:

choovanski.5462:

Necrotize.2974:

choovanski.5462:

ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.

removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.

The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.

devs always choose to gut engineer, can’t see why ele should receive special treatment.

the condis from RoF have never bothered me, but they seem to kill a lot of people on the forum, which was my experience with turret engineers. my issue is that ele can maintain 20+ might. d/d becomes finisher heavy so it’s good at blasting in coordinated teamfights. peopen have to use d/f if they want blasts are the fire field.

I thought the brutal, merciless nerf to turrets was the final nerf engies would get. Nerf is an understatement, they pretty much killed the turret build. So many people complained about it without fully understanding its weaknesses – poor mobility, no defense outside turrets, poor condition cleansing… They were far easier to kill than the current d/d ele.

The turret nerf was then followed by the bigger – overall trait, condition scaling nerf last June.

I very much dislike d/d eles but even they don’t deserve the needless gutting engineers suffered and endured this year.

Devs should do the right thing and buff engies.

The Turret Engie was an abomination in the fact that you could have 2 players with almost no experience, one with a Turret build and one with a number of other builds, and the Turret Engie could AFK kill the other. Sure at the top tier it didn’t matter as much, but at lower tiers it was unkillable. Scrubs matter, too.

Everyone who had experience knew Turret Engie’s weaknesses. The weaknesses were far less important than you give them credit for, mobility was particularly a poor argument. I remember the “just out rotate them” arguments that instsntly failed as soon as you had two Turret Engies on the same team. Poor defense may be so, but you could take the tankiest amulet and runes and your turrets would do the same damage as a glass cannon Turret build. Conditions worked, but pre-patch conditions weren’t nearly as lethal as they are now and kills took a long time considering how much damage they could output.

The tankiest amulet couldn’t protect them from conditions. I’ve countered tureteers with the rabid p/p and cele rifle engies, shatter Mesmer, condi trap ranger, staff ele….
It was also a known fact that turreteers owned d/d eles. I think most of the complaints were made by them. Makes me dislike d/d eles even more….

You didn’t contradict anything I said, so I guess what I said still stands.

The entire context my comment was agreeing with choovanski about how devs gutted the engineer starting with the turreteer build then its entire trait system.

I main a necro but the 2 kit engie pre-patch was my favorite.

Other game sometimes ban characters, so it really isn’t that big of a deal.

The problem with elementalist is its fundamental nature makes it impossible to balance without crippling the kitten class again. Celestial isn’t the problem with the class.

So they have to do a lot to rework it or risk ruining the class.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Other game sometimes ban characters, so it really isn’t that big of a deal.

The problem with elementalist is its fundamental nature makes it impossible to balance without crippling the kitten class again. Celestial isn’t the problem with the class.

So they have to do a lot to rework it or risk ruining the class.

Some games take it way too far though. If you’ve ever played a game called Dragon Nest, they have so many community made banned things, they argue for weeks about what should be banned/unbanned. The list became so substantial, they decided to make an “official blacklist” of skills, tactics and such that you can’t/shouldn’t use or even level up. If you become known for not following the blacklist, you’ll pretty much never manage to find a 1v1 match again. So for them, it actually is really common for pretty much anything complained about frequently to end up banned and never usable. And from my personal experience there, once things were put on the blacklist, they very rarely made it off. It got to the point where pretty much every skill above a certain level was banned.